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User talk:Ronline

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Archives
  1. October 2004 – May 2006
  2. June 2006 – March 2007

[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

[edit] LGBT WikiProject newsletter

SatyrBot 05:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Any Proof that Slovenia is a developed Country?

User:Kingj123Kingj123 20:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of songs containing covert references to real musicians

You may want to weigh in at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 April 15#List of songs containing covert references to real musicians, since you were involved in a previous discussion of this article. - Jmabel | Talk 05:24, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Quick note to thank you for doing a lot of the updates on the Economy of the European Union page. I started to bring it up to date, but had to leave the article unfinished, and when I returned, you had completed much of it - much appreciated! FusionWarrior 15:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sotho language

Hello there.

Why do I get the feeling that everything I say on Talk:Sotho language is being ignored? Oh right -- because everything I say on there IS being ignored!

I am not lying through my teeth when I talk about working on the article offline -- you would have seen this if you had checked the history to see why the article had grown so long.

You're probably going to say "no", but could you possibly delete the articles you created, because it will cause HUGE problems tomorrow when I implement the changes I've been working on for the past month (trust me -- I didn't just split the articles and create a template and category like you did; I made several big changes and 1 HUGE one).

I've brought the article this far with my strange editing habits (which I'll explain if you'd like to understand them), I need you to trust me for just 1 more day. You may send me an email if you wish. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 09:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so very much!

Be sure to check the article(s) about 15 or 16 hours from now for a pleasant surprise...

Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

You forgot [[Category:Sotho language]]...

Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Could you possibly delete Sesoho tonology which I accidentally created with a misspelled title?

I'll also be putting a question on Talk:Sesotho tonology — perhaps you might be able to help me?

Thank you for your patience.

Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 10:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitrare

Salut Ronline, am o întrebare pentru tine. Sînt implicat într-o arbitrare legată de articolul Transnistria [1]. Unul dintre arbitrii care au acceptat cazul este Kirill Lokshin, rus de origine. Mă întreb dacă nu ar putea avea un partizanat la această arbitrare. Îl cunoşti? Există posibilitatea de a recuza un arbitru, iar dacă da, crezi aşa ceva oportun în cazul de faţă? Şi despre ceilalţi arbitri te rog spune-mi dacă-i cunoşti şi dacă ţi se par serioşi.--MariusM 20:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Mulţumesc pentru răspuns. Observaţie: "arbitrar" în loc de arbitru, "involvat" în loc de implicat arată de parcă n-ai stăpîni chiar bine limba română. Nu eşti născut în România?--MariusM 22:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Ronline, a question to you:

Did Marius express doubt in user:Kirill Lokshin's credibility, based on his ethnicity ("rus de origine") and asked, whether his status as an arbiter can be challenged ("a recuza un arbitru"), because he cannot allow opposition into his arbitration ("nu ar putea avea un partizanat la această arbitrare") in his first post above (please correct me if I mistranslated something)? If true, then this is a remarkable display of ethnicity-based prejudice, IMHO, because Kirill didn't even voice his opinion yet. I would like to add this as evidence of disruptive behavior to the arbitration, in such a case. If not, my sincere apologies will go to both of you. --Illythr 00:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Hm, so it's "...because he may have a biased opinion". A slight mistranslation on my part it is, then. While it's not nice to assume such things based only on someone's name, it probably doesn't qualify as "disruptive behavior". I think I'll let this slip, then. After all, considering that Marius' opposition has been mostly Russian-speaking, I find his request understandable, but not justifiable. Thank you for your time and effort. If you'll need some help in translating something in the en-ru-de area, please let me know. --Illythr 11:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Buses WikiProject

I notice that you have edited lists of bus routes recently. You might be interested in helping with the new WikiProject buses, especially the proposed Bus route list guide. We are also working out when a bus route should have its own article and other issues. --NE2 15:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help logging on

Hello, you have been randomly selected from the list of admins for a request for assistance. Specifically, this assistance is that I am for some reason unable to log on. When attempting to log onto my account, the login page informs me that I input the wrong password, and clicking on the new password button results in the page telling me no email is on record, though I was under the impression that I had given one. I have not changed my password recently so I don't know what could be going wrong. The user account is User:Niroht. If you can help me with this, I would appreciate it, but I do recognize that due to security issues there may be nothing that can be done. In that case, I am quite willing to start a new account. --149.152.63.107 01:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP: not a soapbox

Am observat noua ta menţiune pe pagina personală, de susţinător al independenţei Transnistriei. În acest context doresc să-ţi reamintesc ceea ce ţi-am scris în 5 Noiembrie 2006 00:55: "Nu te preocupa de imaginea României, ţi-am scris că nu-ţi cer să acţionezi ca român ci ca administrator la Wikipedia". Cererea mea se bizuie pe politica "wikipedia is not a soapbox". În ceea ce mă priveşte, te asigur că nu îmbunătăţirea imaginii României în lume este ceea ce mă determină să contribui la Wikipedia, deşi s-a insinuat despre mine că aş fi în slujba serviciului secret român [2]. Urmăreşte în continuare arbitrarea despre Transnistria şi ghidează-te strict de politicile Wikipediei, nu de opţiunile politice. Ceea ce m-a făcut să te contactez este propria ta declaraţie că eşti împotriva cenzurii, nădăjduiesc să fie sinceră această afirmaţie şi să accepţi necenzurarea informaţiilor contrare convingerilor tale politice. Dacă faci vreo afirmaţie despre mine, totdeauna să ai diffuri care să-ţi susţină afirmaţiile (cum spuneam în 21 octombrie 09:42: "Încearcă să nu te bizui pe zvonuri ci pe fapte").--MariusM 14:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Eu apreciez puncte de vedere şi criticile de bună credinţă de la alte persoane. Dacă cumva ai impresia că am scris ceva la Wikipedia care se poate numi dezinformare, te rog anunţă-mă, respectînd regula care am pomenit-o mai sus: "să ai diffuri care să-ţi susţină afirmaţiile" (în mod excepţional, fiind implicat în arbitrare, aş prefera să primesc prin e-mail exemple despre eventualele mele greşeli). În rest, cred că n-ai citit cu atenţie mesajul meu: eu NU intervin la articolele de pe Wikipedia pentru a îmbunătăţi imaginea României. Cred că drepturile omului în general, ale moldovenilor în special, sînt încălcate în Transnistria iar oamenilor de acolo trebuie să li se apere drepturile independent de părerea guvernului român (care, de fapt, nu prea se amestecă, contrar cu ceea ce cred unii opozanţi ai mei din Wikipedia). Ca să fac o paralelă, ungurii din Ardeal pot cere respectarea anumitor drepturi independent de poziţia guvernului Ungariei.--MariusM 11:42, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT WikiProject newsletter

This month's project newsletter (hand delivered as SatyrTN and Dev920 are away). Best wishes, WjBscribe 03:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Great Sesotho Debacle of 2007

Hi.

I thought of undoing your moves but I felt that it might not be a great idea after all. However, it is my view that vandalism (let's not lie to ourselves -- that's EXACTLY what "Dawntreader"'s edits were) should be reverted, not accepted and worked around.

The same reason why I edited the articles offline is also the reason why I didn't just revert him (and I have rather little patience for persons with certain behaviours).

The argument is not really over, and the consensus is false. This issue is rather complex. See the recent discussion on Talk:Sotho people for a related and ongoing debate and an example of the true nature of this "consensus" (Mark has taken a short week break, thus the cliffhanger).

What do you think is the optimal action for now? The vandal is not dead quite yet (check the histories and follow the 3 anonymous vandals).

Tebello TheWHO!!?? 08:58, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I do think it's vandalism since:

  1. The articles looked just fine
  2. am anonymous user shows up
  3. he makes abusive statements
  4. then he makes extensive changes, within comments, text, and links, obviously not caring about the adverse effects
  5. then, after I alert to 3RR in an edit summary, he decides to report me for violating it (at this stage I was ignoring his actions, so I wasn't reverting)

This sounds like vandalism and trolling.

Wait before you answer while I explain the prefix situation...

The "Se" in "Sesotho" does not mean "language." It is a noun class marker which is an inalienable part of the morphology of the word. That's simply the way the word looks.

For example, "education" is derived from "educate" through a change in morphology. The change implies that the word is a noun, but it is not valid to simply use the root without the suffix.

"-sotho" is a root, which is made meaningful with class markers (Sesotho, Basotho, Lesotho, etc).

The "Se-" marker in this case does indicate language, but the class has many other types of nouns.

  • seponesa the police force
  • sefofu blind person
  • sefate tree
  • seanamarena traditional blanket
  • sekgathe verbal tense

etc.

So yes, it is a tad complicated...

Tebello TheWHO!!?? 11:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

I just need to thank you for the vote and comment here. I feel honored. Dahn 22:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

What exactly is my vandalism?--194.225.166.11 12:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

For example this and this. Ronline, why aren't you blocking this guy? If he's not Bonnie, then he's his twin brother, and he has provided plenty of reason. He has also called me an irredentist here and even in an edit summary here. KissL 12:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Removing words that are not backed-up with sources it's not vandalism. My source is CONSTITUTION. Who cares if there was for months before there. That's not an argument. Have you solid sources to back-up your version? I need a link from constitution.--194.225.166.11 12:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you to register at the Wikipedia and read the discussions so that you completely understand the topics you would like to be involved in. Everybody is interested in reading what your opinion is, try not to behave as an outsider. --KIDB 13:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Méhkerék

Actually I don't know the exact regulation regarding the use of minority languages in Hungary. (Don't know if there is a 20% rule like in Romania.) There are minority self governing bodies with elected representatives on settlement levels, also on county and national levels - eg. there is a country level Romanian Minority Self Government with elected leaders.
And I don't mind at all if the Romanian name appears in the infobox. If there is somebody reverting you I will try to convince him/her. Are there more ethnic Romanian settlements in Hungary? --KIDB 13:56, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Update: There are three settlements in Hungary with more than 20% Romanian inhabitants. The third one is Pusztaottlaka, I changed this article too. --KIDB 16:34, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

In Hungary there is no such clear-cut limit like the 20 % in Romania. It is mainly the business of te local municipalities whether they use minority names or not, according to the wishes of the minority self governing bodies. So nobody should worry about that Romanians in Pusztaottlaka constitute only 17 % not 20 % - the Romanian name is used by the Central Statistic Office also. Zello 19:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Answer

I saw the discussion of Romanian and Hungarian users about names of the places in Romania and the conclusions of that discussion are wrong even for places in Romania not to mention attempt for imposing this solution to places in other countries. The main question here is whether reason for such usage of names is scientific or political. Wikipedia is not a place for promotion of political ideas no matter if such idea in this case is irredentism or minority rights. Purpose of Wikipedia is a scientific one and from scientific point of view, the reader of Wikipedia indeed should have information about varios names of such places, but you people (Hungarian and Romanian users from Talk:Odorheiu Secuiesc) turned the question of where such names should be written into the pure political question and that is not good direction into which Wikipedia should develop, not to mention that your "compromise" (or what ever) is against Wikipedia naming conventions. In another words, since Wikipedia is a scientific encyclopaedia written in English language, names used here are those that are used in English. I can give you concrete examples of the whole problem: let just pick any random article, for example Bogojevo. So, it is village in Serbia with Hungarian majority and Hungarian name for the village is there if somebody (from scientific point of view) would like to know this name. Now the question is whether we should writte there bolded "Bogojevo or Gombos" instead just bolded "Bogojevo". Usage of more than one bolded name here is justified if such names are used in English, but it is not case here. For geographical purposes, English language use only official names used in these countries (i.e. if alternative English (but not non-English) names for such places do not exist). In the case of Bogojevo, it is very well illustrated here: http://www.fallingrain.com/world/YI/2/Bogojevo.html You can see that only official name that is commonly used in English is listed here in the beginning, while all other non-official, non-English names are listed below, but not in the same place where official name is listed. Also, if you try google search, you will see that Hungarian name Gombos is indeed not widely used in English and that it could mainly be found in Hungarian-language websites: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=bogojevo+gombos&btnG=Search Furthermore, the first sentences of the articles should be brief and should not contain too much data of low importance that would only confuse readers. In another words, I do not see scientific reasons (if there is any please say which one that might be) for usage of non-English non-official names bolded in the first sentence. Also, Wikipedia is not obligated to follow any official policy of any state including policy of usage of minority languages - such state policies are made with only purpose to help to members of such minority to preserve their language and culture within the country, but that still does not mean that English language use names in their languages for geographical purposes and that such names should be written in Wikipedia in the first sentences or in the infoboxes (unless you want to turn a scientific question into political one, which is, as I said, not appropriate on this non-political web site). For example, I see a scientific justification that we writte Hungarian names in the infoboxes of Senta or of Palić because such names are used by majority of local inhabitants, and therefore it is likely that readers of English Wikipedia would saw such names in other web-sites, books, etc, so this information indeed could be useful for them, but I do not see a point of writting Romanian or Hungarian name in the infobox of Bela Crkva because such names could not be of any use to Eglish readers (of course if somebody still want to know such names, there is a "Name" section in the article where he can found them, and that is quite enough from the scientific point of view). Regarding usage of bolded Serbian names in the first sentences of Sviniţa, Pojejena and Socol, that is equally wrong as this what I previously spoke about, but since I do not have time to work any more on the articles about Sviniţa, Pojejena and Socol it is your chooice what you will do with these articles, but I want to ensure high quality of the articles about places in Serbia and therefore usage of Wikipedia for political naming purposes (instead for scientific ones) cannot be acceptable. PANONIAN 09:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

And just one more illustration how ridiculous whole question is: if we start to writte non-English names bolded in the first sentences of the articles, we would also have to use Serbian Cyrillic for such purposes and therefore, we would not have "Bogojevo or Gombos", but we would in fact have "Богојево or Bogojevo or Gombos" and that would be nothing but stupidity. This also illustrate how wrong usage of bolded Serbian names for Sviniţa, Pojejena and Socol really is when you do not use Serbian Cyrillic (and Cyrillic is a primary Serbian script). PANONIAN 10:20, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, as for official names of the places, in Serbia there are no other official names of the places than Serbian ones. Only official use of minority or regional languages is regulated by law, but there is no official regulation about official names of the places. I understand 20% population limit used in Romania (and for example also in Macedonia), but such limit does not exist in Serbia: for example, in Novi Sad, besides Serbian, also Hungarian, Slovak and Rusyn are in official use, no matter that these ethnic groups are not larger than 5% population. Also, the fact that these languages are in official use do not obligate local authorities to use multilingual road signs, as you can see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Welcome_to_Novi_Sad.JPG (Table in the entrance in Novi Sad is written only in Serbian Cyrillic and Serbian Latin, while some other road signs are written only in Cyrillic). Therefore, usage of official languges of Vojvodina is not same as usage of official names - all official publications of Serbian and Vojvodinian government (published in Serbian language), use only Serbian names of the places, while Hungarian, Romanian or Slovak names are used only in publications published in these languages, i.e. non-Serbian names are used as any other word from non-Serbian languages (and only as part of official usage of such languages). Basically, this mean that Hungarian, Romanian or Slovak names are in use only in the Hungarian, Romanian or Slovak texts, but not in general official use (In opposite case, Serbian texts would be also obligated to contain such non-Serbian names, but they do not have such obligation). Regarding your motivation for "spirit of tolerance and pluralism and a greater use of minority languages" that is still an example of political motive. No matter if political motives are with good or bad faith, that is still something very different from the basic purpose of this web site and that purpose is to collect and present knowledge. Therefore, if you want to present knowledge about Romanian names for places in Vojvodina and Serbia, I suggest that you writte new article similar to these two: List of Hungarian exonyms in Vojvodina and German exonyms (Vojvodina). PANONIAN 14:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
And by the way, why you changed this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L%C3%B3r%C3%A9v&diff=130533042&oldid=130522399 Aesthetically, sign "-" is much better than "/", not to mention that I really hate "/" sign used in such cases. Although, we speak here about one same name written in two scripts, imagine that this road sign say "Нови Сад/Novi Sad": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Welcome_to_Novi_Sad.JPG No, that would be just too confusing...PANONIAN 15:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Ronline, I would like to thank you for adding Hungarian names to the leads of many Slovak articles. Good work. As to your other idea, please find my response under your comment on my talk page. Cheers. Tankred 15:37, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

In any country where official bilingual names of the places are used, state government is obligated to use equally all official names in official publications no matter in which language such publications are published. i.e. in the case if these minority place names are official, government in Belgrade would be obligated to use such names in its publications, but it never use such names, which means that state does not recognize these names as official. As I said, we have here two very different things: "official usage of languages" and "official usage of place names" - these terms are very different and if state recognize "official usage of the language" that does not mean that it also recognize "official usage of place names" (The basic problem is that you mixing these two terms). Regarding Novi Sad, you did not understand at all what I wrote to you about it: Novi Sad IS the place where minority languages are official (no matter if minorities comprise 1% or 6% or 20% or 40% of population - that is completelly irrelevant for official language usage in Vojvodina). And what I said is that if minority languages are recognized as official in this municipality that DOES NOT obligate local authorities to have multilingual road signs because minoririty names of the places are not considered official in Serbia. And I am really not sure do some localities in Vojvodina have bilingual road signs (perhaps northern municipalities with Hungarian majority have them, but I am not sure about this anyway). Regarding "/" sign, for me, it is very ugly that it stand between two names with no empty space between "/" and the names (And it is not ugly but it is hard to read and too confusing for readers). PANONIAN 09:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My 2c

I'm not going to interfere with your friendly exchange >;), just to throw in an info:

The law on the protection of rights and freedoms <of> national minorities

Article 11:

§2. The unit of local self-government is obliged to enter the language and alphabet of a national minority in official use always if the percentage of that national minority in the total population on their territory reaches 15% according to the latest census.

...On the territories from paragraph 2, names of public authorities, names of units of local self-government, of settlements, squares and streets and other toponyms shall also be displayed in the language of the respective national minority according to respective orthography and grammar rules and tradition.

Duja► 08:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that Duja! So, that means that in localities where minorities make up more than 15% of the population, the minority name should be listed in the infobox and in the lead. That's the model currently being implemented in Romanian localities, such as those with Serbian populations of over 20% (Socol, Pojejena, etc.) My intention here is in no way nationalistic - in fact, I was the one who supported the boldening of alternative names in Hungarian or Serbian at Romanian localities, and I have argued with many Romanian users over this. I'm just very frustrated that Panonian is absolutely unwilling to compromise. It would be great to reach a consensus over this as well have done, peacefully and rationally, at Talk:Odorheiu Secuiesc. Ronline ✉ 09:03, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, by his own admission, Panonian is a bit short-tempered, but can be compromised with (although requiring handling in gloves :-). ). Actually, he's fairly tired of defending Vojvodina-related articles, and the subject of naming was a long-standing subject of nationalist attacks from various sides; he come up with the compromise solution of creating #Name sections and he's certainly reluctant to change it.
Now, I don't have a sensible suggestion (note that we do have name_alt parameter in {{Infobox Serbia municipality}}, which is [hopefully] used for said 15%+ municipalities, like Kanjiža). Note that, since all 6 languages are official but the percentage of minorities highly varies from town to town, and there are historical German, Turkish and/or Latin names, having a "Name" section ensures that everything relevant is listed without cluttering the lead. Personally, I don't have a problem with your [[#Name|alternate names]] suggestion. Duja► 09:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I understand why there is a separate Name section: because Vojvodina has 6 official languages and because indeed all those names may clutter up the lead. That in itself is not a problem, since a "Name" section is a valid way of placing alternative names. However, if such a section is established, then there should be a link from the lead. Panonian was also concerned (mainly with regard to Slovak rather than Vojvodinian articles) that a multilingual infobox may be confusing, as the reader will not know in which language each name is. However, this can be achieved through language tagging, which I have implemented on a provisional basis at Bač, Serbia. Do you think that would work? Ronline ✉ 09:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, it looks plain ugly; I'd rather suggest this form, where the 15%+ minority language name is stated in the lead, and others go to #Name section; in that way, it becomes immediately clear. I'd also propose not using the "alternate name" in lead everywhere, e.g. for purely Serbian settlements with no other relevant names, like Ruma (but I'd also like Panonian to comment). Duja► 09:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I think your model is better. The only reason why I implemented the tags were because Panonian said that the infoboxes also needed some specification. I think the current model works well. As to "alternate names" link, I'm not sure at what level it should kick in. I agree that in a locality that's 97% Serbian it would be awkward. I guess it should be used where we would normally use alternate names in the lead. Ronline ✉ 10:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
The law presented by Duja is not a law of the state of Serbia, but law of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and this state does not exist anymore. Anyway, as I already said, Wikipedia is not obligated to follow official policies of the states, therefore even if such 15% limit exist in the state, there is still no reason that Wikipedia use it. Purpose of Wikipedia is to collect and present knowledge not to implement policies about minorities. PANONIAN 15:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
It is a law of Serbia as well, by the Constitution Law, until Parliament of Serbia brings a new one. I do agree that it doesn't bind Wikipedia though. I also fail to see the rationale for this WP:LAME; over & out. Duja► 15:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
But that law does not say that we have to write minority names into the infoboxes. Does it? PANONIAN 17:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop...

...your disruptive edits in Serbia-related articles. I understand that you have to prove your political point, but that is against everything that Wikipedia is - you will receive longer answer from me when I come home, but until then, please try to do something useful for wikipedia instead to push your personal views about wiki policies and usage of the names. Thank you. PANONIAN 19:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I came home from my job, so longer answer now: first, I do not know why you think that agressive revert wars that you started will solve any problem? I had in the past to deal with much more agressive revert warriors than you (do not consider this offensive), so I just want to suggest that you do not waste your free time for nothing. Second, I already asked you to provide scientific reasons for your edits, and you did not done such thing - the only reasons that you presented are political ones and such reasons are not acceptable for scientific web site. Now, please explain your last edits in Vršac and Bela Crkva articles, i.e. please answer this question: do you believe that readers of Wikipedia are so stupid that they cannot find "Name" section for themselves so that you are sent by God to point them into that direction??? I would really want to know this answer. Of course, here is my explanation for my edit: names that are not widely used in English are not so important thing that should be in the first sentence of these articles - the first sentence (and first paragraph as a whole) should contain only most important informations about the subject, i.e. basic informations about location and population of the place. If you think that this is wrong, then please tell me reason why these names would be important enough to be posted in the first paragraph? Regarding WP:NCGN, it is ridiculous that you remind me that I should respect it when you do not respect it by yourself in Romania-related articles. Anyway, WP:NCGN is only a guideline or "friendly suggestion", but not obligation that must be followed blindly (no matter that I follow it for the most part). Also, why you again mixing "official languages" with "official place names" when I explained to you difference between these two terms - if you want to see that explanation again, just read my previous posts on your talk page. Also your claim that "no one here so far has advocated that these names be implemented because these cities somehow belong to neighbouring countries" is just ridiculous because if you see edit histories of many Wiki pages you will see that you are very wrong - irredentist claims are main reason for inclusion of such names into articles for many users. Also, if "this is not about neighbouring countries at all" then why you as a citizen of the neighbouring country want to push POV that could be seen as irredentist by some people (no matter if you really have irredentist intentions or not)? Also, my basic reason why I do not want to see "known also by several alternative names" sentence into first paragraph is because such sentence make article ugly and disrupting main story line of the article. Also, it is very correct that such "alternative names" are irrelevant and unknown because, for example, "Romanian" and "Hungarian" names for Vršac are nothing but twisted versions of the Serbian name, and that is a case with largest number of place names in Vojvodina (and in Romanian part of Banat as well, by the way, but it is a question that I do not want to raise anyway). As for you refering to the "rest of Wikipedia", I really regret that much of Wikipedia has been taken over by various irredentists from various countries who waste their free time to prove "rights" of their country or of their people to certain outlandish teritories and their presence here is indeed a big damage for this project. PANONIAN 21:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Mulţumesc - for your efforts to make en-wiki a more tolerant, friendly and pleasant place. Zello 20:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Zello. Multumesc foarte mult. --Koppany 05:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, --KIDB 07:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conclusion...

Now Ronline, let me tell you my opinion about best naming policies in Wikipedia:

  • (1.) In the first sentences of the articles and in the infoboxes we can use only generally accepted most common English names (We primarily writte Wikipedia for English-language readers and we should not confuse them with so many names in the infoboxes and in the first paragraph of the article where other more important things should be)
  • (2.) If English-language readers want to know other names used for the subject, such names could be written in the "Name" section where they easy can find them
  • (3.) We can have separate article sections named "Language" where we can describe official language policies, i.e, we can say which languages are used as official by local or state authorities.

From the scientific point of view, my opinion is very logical and very much in accordance with scientific purpose of Wikipedia. There is really no any logical reason for usage of so many non-English names in English texts because such names do not mean anything to English-language readers. Of course, since I am tolerant person and since all rules can have exceptions, I did not removed minority names from the articles about places where ethnic minorities are in majority (places like Subotica, Senta, etc). But of course, since every tolerance have its limits (especially when there are no scientific reasons for things beyond those limits), I am kindly asking you not to start more revert wars about articles about Serbian municipalities. If you want to discuss with me how we can improve these articles from the scientific point of view, I am always open for such discussion. In fact, perhaps we can cooperate and improve those articles: we can find all alternative names for all places and we can post them into "Name" sections of all arrticles or we can write "Language" sections in all these articles where we would describe official language usage policies in these municipalities, but please, do not push something that have no basis in science and in common sense and that is rather disruptive than anything else. PANONIAN 21:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bilingual infoboxes in Romania

A Romanian user, Roamataa began deleting minority language names in the infoboxes, see for example Bistra and Moldoveneşti. Indeed Roamataa deleted Hungarian names all over the infoxes in Cluj County (about a dozen villages). As far as I know there was a consensus among Romanian users that they accept bilingual infoboxes (with 20 % population limit), and there was no problem with them in the past half year. Please try to speak with Roamataa if it's possible about his campaign. Zello 00:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

But why do you say the infoboxes are not bilingual? In fact their are in 5 languages available and personally I added a lot of names in Hungarian (here, here, here, here (Unirea don't have 20% hu but the hu name is specified in the infobox) and many other). The Romanian, Hungarian, Ucrainian, German and Latin name are displayed on many of them. Please explain why do you think they are not multilingual. The only thing I changed is their title.

You know as good as me that these articles are about communes (the NUTS IV administrative level of Romania), areas, administrative divisions of Romania and their names exist only in Romanian (the same of Romania development regions or counties) and this has nothing to do with how many people live in. The Popeşti village may be called Varfalva, but the commune is is an area which name it is oficially only ro.

And it was not me who decided these are communes (I did not created the articles, I did not added the Template:CommunesCluj). Please check also the ro infobox on communes and you'll see that in the title it write clear "commune" and it is in English a commune (it's not important what you or me believe).

Şi câteva cuvinte pe scurt: Acum putem să stăm cu toţii să ne contrazicem sau să colaborăm. Văd că la Unirea, Alba ai atins un consens corect. Dar văd şi că există o campanie iniţiată de câţiva utilizatori decişi să schimbe / elimine numele româneşti şi care au transformat totul într-o prostie politică. Nu eu am stricat consensul existent ci cei care au vrut ca numele oficiale româneşti să fie schimbate cu altele. Ştii bine că ar putea fi acum invocate şi proceduri ca WP:NCGN sau altele şi să fie cerut să apară doar numele oficiale engleze, cf procedurilor. Dar poate că avem alte lucruri mai bune de făcut. Iar legat de cutia pt comune, trebuie să apară specificat faptul că e comună. Asta nu înseamnă că nu se poate găsi o soluţie rezonabilă şi acceptabilă pt toţi. Dar nu soluţii care să ne fie impuse cu forţa, atâta vreme cât oricum politica de acceptare a numelor la localităţile transilvănene este deja foarte permisivă, spre deosebire de altele. Dacă vrei să găsim un consens corect eu sunt deschis spre a-l stabili.--Roamataa 06:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
You mean something like Comuna Călăraşi and Harasztos Kommuna? I think this is fair enough for both sides. But where is the convention for infoboxes at Wikipedia that the name is displayed in all officially-recognised languages of a locality? As far as I know the convention is to use the official English name in titles. I don't mind to have it writen in other languages, by respect for the people that live there (I too have hungarian friends and relatives), but where is the obligation to do this? I will check the rest of your observations.--Roamataa 07:55, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
OK about the infobox title. It is fine for me to have the title of the infobox containing a title like Comuna Călăraşi/Harasztos Kommuna. --Roamataa 08:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roma series template

Hi, good initiative. In fact, I had this also in mind, but I planned it for later, when I would have added more info about the Romani people and culture, since now most of the articles are in a sorry state, are not really describing the Roma. Thanks, Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 08:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Don't understand

Why did you added all the hu names to Template:Municipalities and Towns of Harghita County? --Roamataa 11:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nice signature!

How do you get the link to your User Talk page in your signature, please? I've tried putting this:

'''[[User:W. Frank|W. Frank]]''' [[User talk:W._Frank|✉]]

in the SIGNATURE box of my user preferences and ticked RAW SIGNATURE but the envelope symbol still doesn't seem to link to my Talk page. W. Frank ✉ 16:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Communes name

For some of the communes and villages in Romania I will have to move them to a name consisting in their name and the name of the county (Băişoara -> Băişoara, Cluj), like on rowiki. This is because I intend to create the articles for the existing villages and otherwise will have duplicate names. --Roamataa 17:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] kommuna

Thank you for including this expression, I think, however, there is a better Hu word for this: "község" meaning settlement, also, community. There would be another word, too: "járás", but until we can specify the best solution, I would suggest "község", like on the homepage of Ilieni Commune (www.illyefalva.eu) Kommuna in Hungarian rather means Commune (intentional community) --KIDB 21:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with KIDB. Indeed kommuna makes me think that in Romania anarcho-sindicalist groups began to flourish :) Zello 23:08, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "sockpuppet" hunt

Hi Ronline, and thanks for the clear-eyed and helpful contributions to the various naming-convention wars. I have a specific concern, unrelated to the recent debates but related to one of its participants. User:PANONIAN has just embarked on a massive campaign of tagging about 20-25 anonymous IP contributors' userpages and the userpages of two registered users as "suspected sockpuppets of banned user VinceB." I didn't bother looking into all the IPs contribs, since they are all from Vince's established IP range and I do know he's been still hanging around, but what concerns me is the registered users. Neither of them bear any resemblance to Vince to me, especially not this Lazio fellow. They both appear to be rather nationalistic Hungarians still sore about Trianon, but that's hardly anything unique. Their writing styles are completely different from Vince and in Lazio's case, his command of English appears vastly superior.

I don't know much about sockpuppet-tagging procedure, but common sense tells me that Panonian may be out of line here with his little witch-hunt. I just wanted to let you know in case something needs to be done in a case like this. K. Lásztocska 14:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Update: never mind. Looks like we have more of a real sockpuppet invasion than I thought--ugh. K. Lásztocska 16:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Erdeniss

Thanks for doing the reverts, I was lazy to do it last night and now I see I have nothing to do :-) --KIDB 07:05, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit]  ?

Can you please tell me why are you are reverting my edits? Do you have something against showing pictures and names of Romanian villages? Please stop. --R O A M A T A A | msg  13:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

I started a discussion at Talk:Cătina, Cluj. Your opinion is welcome. --R O A M A T A A | msg  08:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability of GayOne

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on GayOne, by 74.220.207.95, another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because GayOne is an article about a certain website, blog, forum, or other web content that does not assert the importance or significance of that web location. Please read our criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 7 under Articles, as well as notability guidelines for websites. Please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources which verify their content.

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting GayOne, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Please note, this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion, it did not nominate GayOne itself. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot. --Android Mouse Bot 2 02:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Right causes

Hi! I was passing by, I saw your current userpage and I wanted to express my support for your promotion of these right causes. Otherwise, I keep being busy in real life, so my work here is still going on a slower pace than I would like. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 17:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 16:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC). SatyrBot 16:34, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] László Almásy

Hey - I see that you've put László Almásy in Category:LGBT people from Hungary. There is no reference in the article - do you have one available? Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Have you gotten a chance to look this up? Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Palmerston North

Hi Ronline. Do you feel like answering the points raised by Rossnixon on the PN Talk page? Just feel I should back off slightly for a while. Kahuroa 09:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mobile networks

Ronline, I placed a message on the Talk:List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_Europe, because the ratio of mobile phones in Hungary is now over 100%. --KIDB 21:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Panonian

Can you please advise how to protect Wikipedia from the anti-Hungarian activities of User:PANONIAN? On the disambiguation page of Greater Hungary he is doing a revert war against three users (including me), pushing his POVs.

  1. My position is that Greater Hungary basically means the former Hungarian Kingdom. A simple Google search proves that most sources use Greater Hungary in this meaning. However, Panonian thinks that this meaning is only of secondary importance. He is convinced "Greater Hungary" as a political goal of Hungarian extremists, is more attached to this expression and the latter should be the first in the disambiguation list.
  2. He is also convinced that a biased editorial should be included in the disambiguation page which I, as a Hungarian, consider rude and offensive against my Nation.

For me it is now obvious that Panonian is using Wikipedia to do anti-Hungarian propaganda. His revert war against three other editors has been going on for 4 days. He never violated the 3RR rule because he waits usually for many Hours until his next revert, but he did 7 reverts during these days. We tried to discuss it with him but it is an impossible mission, he always writes a couple of sentences trying to demonstrate he is right. Can you possibly suggest an administrator who could deal with this issue? --KIDB 21:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

One more note: I would support an NPOV article similar to Greater Romania, Pannonian seems rather to be a supporter articles full of "citation needed" marks. --KIDB 06:59, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. --KIDB 15:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zanya/Zanea

Hi! I recently made the article for the Zanya neighborhood/village of Ciurea. Currently in this commune there are recognized 7 villages. Usually Zanya/Zanea was included in the village Ciurea as a neighborhood. In the recent years, informally, it started to be named also as village. I see that here Zanea is named as village, but still the number of official villages is 7. You have much more experience in locality official names on Wikipedia, so I'd like to ask you which name you think it should come first. In fact, first of all, I'm not sure when an inhabited area is officially considered as an informal neighborhood which name should have priority. Thanks, Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 12:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, after more study of the Google search, I see that also the Romanian name is used (in fact only this variant appears). I didn't know about this exposure, that's why I considered first the Romani variant. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 13:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Btw,
You are invited to join the Romani WikiProject, an attempt to build and maintain an extensive and neutral database of Romani related articles on Wikipedia. To join, simply add your name to the members section of Romani WikiProject.

Thanks for the info. Actually the idea to start such articles (I have in my mind others too) came when I wrote at Wikipedia:Notice board for Romani-related topics about the List of Romani settlements, now a list of articles selecting mostly negative and steretypical features. However, I'm still thinking how to tackle that unrealistic list. About the portal, yes it is necessary too, just I'm looking for more available time to write about the fundamentals of the Romani culture (the same as it was the case of making public Roma series template). Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 14:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Salut :D

Hello, I was just wondering...are you the same Ronline that posted all those O-zone and 3rei Sud Est music videos on YouTube? Nat Tang talk to me! | Check on my contributions!|Email Me! 19:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD for Margita Bangová

Salut! Would you, by any chance, be interested in voting here? --Kuaichik 04:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Query

Hi, Ro. I have a quick question: do you happen to know why the template for the Romani project includes all pages it tags in template and banner categories (like it does here)? My guess is that it is a script error, but I am prestigiously incompetent when working with templates, so I can't be trusted to try and fix it. Dahn 22:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Cheers. Judging by Talk:Kalderash, it doesn't need to be reviewed page-by-page. Dahn 00:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] question!!!

if romania isent a slavic courty im nto saying all of it is im sayign abotu 60 percent is why do they find the racial genes of nordic peoples livign there and the percent of those people are about 60 percent of romanians.and why do we find so many slavic words in romanian languge i would nkow im half romanian and i lived there.the real romanians have tan skin black hair and dakr eyes i have resaerched the analasis of dacian remains and they show hight consetraion of millinia in upper derma wich means that that dacians were a dark complexioned dark eyed people.wich today the slavic romanians call by diffrent names ether then its onw there are to groups of people in romania one is light people blue eyes brown or ligth hair and the other real romanians dark hair dark eyes and tan skin.so in my aswere yes romania is a very slavic coutry seeing as about 45 percent of people in romania are beeing of slavic ansestry.

[edit] wat i have meant...

no that is not wat im trying to prove at all.i am trying to prove that most of the people are slavic thats why they have a slavic mixed languge abot 60 percent of them are.as for romanian languge yes it is a latin and should belong to latin europe but only the laungede most people there dont have anythign with latin to do eople exepct for the ones mixed with romans.the people there are romanized slavs romanized germanics the majority of them are and the 30 percent or so romanized thracians.thracians did not belong to any latin group of people but rhater to near eastern people ranging from iran all the way to west turkey thats were the proto-thracians lived int he years wehn they migraited to europe in the south of iran ofcousre not the north im not sayign that thise thracians were iranians but studies of culture and there heritage reveal them as a near eastern people that belonged to there own group of people or one other group of people whos languge has been also extincted.but i said that because i come to my conclusion why would u call it latin europe when the people there have little to do with latin people at all exept of there langgue wich they adapted and exept those peopel mixed with roman colonists.u can only use that term as a top term to classify them in that cultural languge group.but if u want a term that is more into the subject u can not say that they are a regular latin courty.same goes for latin america were in some areas the people jsut speak spanish but have little to do with spaniards exept the mixed ones.u can only say it as a top term.im not arguing with u im just trying to say that so u dont jsut have black and white decsisios but also alternatives..thats all im trying to say.

[edit] Rjecina's proposal

Please read Croatian user, Rjecina's message on my talk page. He also had problems with Panonian. What do you think about his proposal? Thanks. --Koppany 18:50, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Szetey

You may beinterested in this news. Roll down the page to see the whole article. --KIDB 10:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

OK. tell me when you are ready with the article, I will cross-check it with Hungarian references. --KIDB 10:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, bundás kenyér is quite a heavy stuff and is the best if you can have some paradicsom (possibly some onion, too) with it, similarly to vinete, which, I suppose, Hungarians learned from Romanians. About Demszky - he is a politician after all and this says everything. Even if he was a brave anticommunist and was harrassed and beaten by the police of Kádár, many people think that the 17 years he has spent in office as the Mayor of Budapest was too long. --KIDB 08:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demszky

I can't assess his activities as I am neither a politologist nor an urban planner, but the POVs about him :-) from left and right can be read in the Gábor Demszky article. The overall perception? It depends. If you talk to a supporter of conservative parties, you will learn that he is an evil person destroying the once-beautiful Budapest. If you listen to Socialists or Liberals, you will hear that he is the only person able to save the city from evil FIDESZ politicians. --KIDB 11:25, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Ro, I am deeply honored, since you are one of the editors I look up to. I'm actually glad we get to collaborate on at least one project (though my contributions there are somewhat limited in scope). Thank you, and not just for the barnstar. Dahn 18:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I echo Dahn's sentiments. Thank you very much, Ronline, for your generous award of the barnstar, and so much else. I appreciate it. Biruitorul 00:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Autistic South Bolzon

Regarding your edit here: There is a discussion on Talk:South Tyrol about that (again). In short: Brittanica calls the province "Bolzano/Bozen" [3], while the autonomy statute on the official website uses "Province of Bozen - South Tyrol" [4]. Incidentally, that website itself and several other places use "Autonomous Province of Bozen - South Tyrol" (in the copyright tag at the bottom). The website of the Provinvial Statistics institute uses "Autonomous Province of Bolzano". Other official sites use only "South Tyrol". Some have pointed to WP:NCGN, saying we shouldn't necessarily be looking for or using the official name at all, but instead use the widely accepted English name. Someone objected to the bilingual naming and removed the "Bozen", and of course there are sites that use only "Bolzano" for the prvince as well...

I'm out of ideas right now, but using Bolzano/Bozen or Bolzano exlusively seems to me to be confusing for the reader. The widely accepted English name seems to be either "Alto Adige" or "South Tyrol", when you search Google and Google news. —AldeBaer (c) 19:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I agree that "ST" is the least confusing compromise, and that was the version used until an IP changed many articles. It was reverted twice, first by Delirium, then by me, and then another user came and changed it again. I don't think consensus will be easy to find on this one. —AldeBaer (c) 00:48, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
joined your conversation at Aldebaer's talk page. Note that it has been South Tyrol for a long time because a large set of users with a particular POV have made it this way. It is by no means a compromise if you understand the political implications. Icsunonove 01:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 16:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Wahaha Danone joint venture

I just created this article on this very topical subject. The subject matter would make for a good featured article, so I am hoping to enlist your help to get it there qualitatively. Ohconfucius 02:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Oops, you work fast! I made some changes off line and posted them, then I realised you had already tucked in, I think I reversed it in time! Ohconfucius 08:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Query

Hi, Ro. I know you have been involved in creating various Romania-related templates, and I could use a second opinion on a particular detail. I left a comment at Talk:Piteşti#Crest. Thank you. Dahn 14:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion about false map

If you want to see something interesting you must to look article Borders before and after Yugoslavia, PANONIAN map of Serbia in 1918 and our discussion about this map. Discussion is on discussion page of article for which I have given you link. In last week I am fighting with PANONIAN that this fantasy map in which even Pecs and Timisoara are Serbian territory be deleted on wiki. ---Rjecina 19:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help

Hi, I see that you are an admin here, so please help me about this: User:Rjecina harassing me claiming that I am "fundamentalist" and accusing me that I said things that I did not said: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ABorders_before_and_after_Yugoslavia&diff=146127770&oldid=145876340 Can you please tell him not to call me "fundamentalist" and twist my words because these false accusations are really not pleasant. Also, you can see that he call other users "fundamentalists" as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ANikola_Tesla%2FNationality_and_ethnicity&diff=146129581&oldid=146118836 As an admin you can remind him that he should behave civil and provide arguments for the subject of dispute not to harass other users on personal basis. I would really appreciate your help here. PANONIAN 20:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

At least the map of Kingdom of Serbia in 1918 is false indeed. Baranya and other territories were under military occupation of Serbia, but noone recognised the occupation. Otherwise another map created by PANONIAN suggests that the unconstitutionally created and short-lived Serbian Voivodship was a voivodship of Serbia while the Principality of Serbia under Ottoman rule had nothing to do with this Voivodship. I support the deletion or modification of these maps. --Koppany 21:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Koppany, this was already discussed on the proper talk page, so why you do not read whole discussion there? These regions officially united with Serbia and SHS Kingdom in 1918 and this Kingdom was recognized by the international community in 1919, while Hungary was officially recognized one year later (in 1920). Also see Hungarian source that I used as a source for borders in my map: http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro/kepek/netre/167.gif Also, Voivodship of Serbia certainly was not "unconstitutionally created" and reasons why these two territories are showed with same colour are also explained on the proper talk page. You are welcome to participate in discussion on these talk pages if you want because talk page of user Ronline is really not a proper place for that - I only asked here user Ronline for help about one specific question and this is not place where other questions should be discussed because all these articles and images do have their own talk pages. PANONIAN 22:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bačka

Hi Ronline,

I would like to ask you to help me on the discussion page with user PANONIAN regarding to the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%C4%8Dka. As summarization: PANONIAN wrote the Demograpics part with some explanation. I think PANONIAN's work is a very good summarization of the viewpoint common among Serbs. But there exist another viewpoints, in this case Hungarian, which may differ form Serbian. For example: in the article it is written that the 1941 census was unreliable, but nothing is written to censuses 1921 and 1931. Hungarian historians think 1941 census was relaively reliable, but here were many problems with 1921 and 1931 censuses. I don't want to say that Hungarians hold the divine truth and the Serbs not, but according to Wikipedia's NPOV every relevant viewpoints has to be presented in a fair way.

I don't want to write here all my problems with that section; I think I've summarized them in a fair way. At first please read Demographic (2) part on discussion page, there are 4 (in fact: 3) points, which I think not neutral, the explanation why I consider it not to be neutral, and a proposal.

Thanks for your help in advance: Csaba Faragó

Fcsaba 12:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help

Can you help with this user: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Wallak I suspect that it is sockpuppet of banned user Bonaparte and he vandalizing various articles related to Romanians and Vlachs. Can we do something about it? PANONIAN 19:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you also translate for me what this link say: http://www.adevarul.ro/index.php?section=articole&screen=index&id=25504&search=Timoc PANONIAN 19:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
I told you one more time: I'm Wallak and don't remove sourced information because you'll be reverted.--WallakTalk 19:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Use this link also: http://www.adevarul.ro/index.php?section=articole&screen=index&id=25504&search=Timoc

Iugoslavia recunoaste apartenenta vlahilor din Valea Timocului la minoritatea romaneasca (66 afisari, 2002-11-06) Prin acordul privind minoritatile, semnat, luni, la Belgrad, de catre presedintii Ion Iliescu si Voislav Kostunita, statul iugoslav recunoaste dreptul apartenentei la minoritatea romaneasca din Iugoslavia al celor aproape 120.000 de vlahi (cifra neoficiala), care traiesc in Valea Timocului, in Serbia de Rasarit. Reprezentantii romanilor din Iugoslavia, profesori, ziaristi, scriitori, i-au multumit, ieri, la Pancevo, sefului statului pentru aceasta intelegere cu guvernul de la Belgrad. Acordul este considerat de importanta istorica pentru romanii din Valea Timocului, care, din timpul lui Iosip Broz Tito, traiesc fara drept la invatamant si viata religioasa in limba materna, practic nerecunoscuti ca etnie. "Nu vom face ca fostul regim, sa numim noi care sunt minoritatile nationale sau sa stergem cu guma alte minoritati", a spus, ieri, Rasim Ljajic, ministrul sarb pentru minoritati, la intalnirea de la Pancevo a presedintelui cu romanii din Iugoslavia. Deocamdata, statul iugoslav nu a recunoscut prin lege statutul vlahilor de pe Valea Timocului, insa de-acum va acorda acestora dreptul la optiunea etnica, va permite, in decembrie, constituirea Consiliului Reprezentantilor Romani si va participa in Comisia mixta romano-iugoslava la monitorizarea problemelor minoritatilor sarba si romana din cele doua state. In Iugoslavia traiesc cateva sute de mii de romani. Presedintele Ion Iliescu s-a angajat, ieri, pentru o politica mai activa privind romanii din afara granitelor: "Avem mari datorii fata de romanii care traiesc in afara granitelor. Autocritic vorbind, nu ne-am facut intotdeauna datoria. De dragul de a nu afecta relatiile noastre cu vecinii, am fost mai retinuti, mai prudenti in a sustine cauza romanilor din statele vecine. (...) Ungurii ne dau lectii din acest punct de vedere", a spus presedintele, precizand ca romanii trebuie sa-si apere cauza "pe baza de buna intelegere".

There isn't a strong controversy. Everything related to the Vlachs (Romanians) of Serbia can be add it in the main article Romanians of Serbia. Even the Serbian Gov. recognize them that they are Romanians so there isn't any need to create artificial articles about new minorities. --WallakTalk 15:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vlach language

Panonian, the point here is that it must be mentioned that in the census there is such thing as a Vlach language. I'm not saying we shouldn't mention that. "They are officially recognized as separate languages" --> Yes that should be mentioned. However, in truth they are the same, so it cannot be asserted that the "Timok Valley Vlachs" speak "Vlach". There is no such thing as Vlach! It is one thing to say that "The Vlachs of Serbia speak Vlach" and another one to say "Serbian authorities consider Timok Valley "Vlachs" to speak the Vlach language, even though the language they speak is identical to Romanian" or even "Many Vlachs say that they speak the Vlach language, but this language is identical to Romanian" What I'm saying is - as per the NPOV policy, it's not wrong to mention the word "Vlach". However, it shouldn't be stated as truth. Ronline 11:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

See my reply on my page. As much as you want to be NPOV, here you're very POV if you support Serbia's Gov. POV. --Brickoceanmonth 08:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

01 august 2007 Azi 01.08.2007 la sediul din Negotin al CNRS a sosit confirmarea inregistrarii Consiliului National al Rumanilor din Serbia (in limba sarba se utilizeaza sinonimul arhaic pentru roman,“vlasi”). Consiliul reprezinta comunitatea romaneasca din Timoc si are precizat in statutul sau utilizarea ca limba materna a limbii romane literare, transmite corespondentul Romanian Global News din Timoc.Necesitatea inregistrarii acestui consiliu a fost data de faptul ca romanii din Timoc (peste 250.000) au o situatie diferita de romanii din Voivodina (circa 35.000), iar obiectivele fiecareia dintre cele doua comunitati sunt diferite. Daca cei din Voivodina au avut si au scoli si biserici in limba proprie inca de pe timpul Imperiului Austro-ungar, romanii din Timoc de mai bine de 200 de ani sunt supusi unui intens si agresiv proces de asimilare care a lasat numeroase urme in mentalitatea si onomastica comunitatii si a facut ca in zona Timocului sa nu existe scoala si biserica romaneasca.

Have you read this? or you ignore it?--Brickoceanmonth 08:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


Thank you Ronline, and please don't ignore simple facts that happend these days. This is history for the Romanians of Serbia!--Brickoceanmonth 08:39, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

You are proved to be a fighter for the minority rights, regardless of their ethnicity, sex..etc. It's the same problems with the minority rights of the Romanian community from Serbia. keep up your good work! ;-) --Brickoceanmonth 09:05, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Why they say I'm Bonny? can you ask a CheckUser?--Brickoceanmonth 18:47, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Inserting constant POV

See

v • d • e
Europe
Sovereign
states
Dependencies,
autonomies,
other territories
Italics indicates an unrecognised or partially recognised country. 1 Entirely in Southwest Asia.  2 Partially or entirely in Asia, depending on the border definitions.  3 / 4 / 5 / 6 Has part of its territory in Asia / North America / South America / Africa.  7 / 8 Entirely on the North American Plate / African Plate.

where Mikkalai is inserting Transnistria in the list even if it is a breakaway region of Moldova and so it will last forever.--201.225.40.228 06:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 16:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Chronic fatigue syndrome

Just a note to inform you that I've reverted your forking of chronic fatigue syndrome. Firstly, there was no discussion whatsoever to make such a move, which should have happened given that the talk page on some days gets at least 10 edits a day. Secondly, different treatments are proposed by different "schools of thought"; disconnecting this information would lead to fragmentation of the article and an opportunity for the proponents of either school to take control of a subarticle. Thirdly, there are other sections that would equally well benefit from splitting off.

If you still think the article should be split up, please let me know. At any rate, it cannot happen without discussion. JFW | T@lk 11:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 17:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The difference between Romania and Poland

This is a cool link showing the difference of treatment between Romanian and Poland. You will see that the latter is actually respected, regardless of its shortcoming (which are important) [5]. Dpotop 23:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Revisiting an issue

Hi, Ronline. On Jmabel's talk page, I have raised some issues involving an older problem. I don't know if you want to get involved in assessing the arguments and counterarguments, but I would welcome any input from you, given the extended and volatile nature of the polemic on this topic, its importance to present-day politics, and the one-sidedness nature of virtually all arguments brought up against the text. Thanking you in advance, Dahn 00:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cyprus economy

Hi. You added the following statement to the economy section of the article about Cyprus, and I have two questions. "Its per-capita income is slightly lower than that of the big four European economies, but higher than the European Union average." 1 - Am I safe in assuming that the "big four" are the U.K., Germany, France, and Italy? If so, then I will clarify that in the article. 2 - Is there a reference for this information? The paragraph makes it appear that it comes from the existing reference. I appreciate your help. Saraalan 02:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro

...why precisely did you add by linguists? --PaxEquilibrium 14:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It cannot be connected with Bosnian because of several things. Firstly, the Bosnian language factually exists, i.e. those who want to understand Bosnian can do so by finding Bosnian-language-educated professors, reading Grammars and Primers. There are works specifically written in Bosnian language. However, there is no such thing with the Montenegrin language - it doesn't exist beyond a paper adopted into legal act (politically) several days ago. Additionally, 100% of speakers of the Bosnian language consider their language a language - over 80% of the speakers of the Montenegrin language, consider it a dialect of Serbian, while only 20% think it's a separate language.
In the end I understand what you want to say - but see Moldova and Talk:Moldova#.22Moldovian.22_Language.3F. I am trying to pair up for general neutrality of the Wikipedia, and hence that. As you can see, all my proposals were rejected - and the current version is in my opinion a bit too POV, and probably even more from your edge of view. --PaxEquilibrium 15:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned non-free media (Image:Petrom logo.jpg)

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[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 12:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC).

[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 20:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC). SatyrBot 21:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] salut, ai un e-mail sau o adresa de messenger?

salut, ai un e-mail sau o adresa de messenger? vreau sa discut ceva cu tine urgent Adrianzax (talk) 12:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ping

Please read your en wikinews talk page. (I've also emailed you. sorry for spam). Bawolff (talk) 11:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Partidul Popular logo.png

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[edit] Ferentari riot

Hello. Could I ask you to look at 2006 Ferentari riot, in particular Dl.goe's edit and Jmabel's talk page message? I'm pretty sure my version (really yours) is more accurate, but since you wrote the article, I thought it would be a good idea to inform you of the issue. Thank you. Biruitorul (talk) 00:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Compasiune

Îmi exprim compasiunea pentru necazul tău. Dacă n-ar fi armata rusă, la fel ar păţi separatiştii şi în Transnistria.--MariusM (talk) 20:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered sometime in January 2008 (UTC). SatyrBot (talk) 23:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Treaba buna

A bit late perhaps, but great job on getting CFR featured. Thanks again, Basketballone10 23:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:M2 colour

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:M3 colour

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:M4 colour

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:M4 link

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[edit] Romania

Congradulations on the promotion of CFR, however late it is. If you have not already done so, I suggest you join the Romanian WikiProject. Cheers, Basketball110 proof that this user is crazy 23:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of British Caledonian in the 1980s

An editor has nominated British Caledonian in the 1980s, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

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[edit] AfD nomination of British Caledonian in 1979

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[edit] AfD nomination of British Caledonian in 1978

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[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered by SatyrBot around 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC) SatyrBot (talk) 17:55, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Planeta maimutelor

Uite, stiind ca esti ateu militant, iti trimit link-ul asta, sa te ingrozesti:

http://www.jurnalul.ro/articole/118803/planeta-maimutelor

Cand vad cat de bigoti sunt unii, incep sa iti inteleg frustrarea (nu insa si alegerea filozofica a ateismului). Dpotop (talk) 08:46, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moldova, Moldovan language

As I expected, the provocations of User:Xasha become clearer, and there is an involvement of User:El C and User:Mikkalai. There is also Bonny, but I'm concerned another edit war will start. Dpotop (talk) 10:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I also resent the message on User:90 1 AQ. I have seen no such message before. At last news, chauvinism (including Romanian one) is not punishable here. Or, if we choose to write it, then we should also say "Russian chauvinist", "Communist extremist", etc. Maybe Mikka should be warned about this policy breach. Dpotop (talk) 10:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, there's Irpen, too. And I got warned under the blanket "Eastern Europe" decision of the Digwuren ArbCom. By El_C, of course. Dpotop (talk) 12:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cluj-Napoca

Am propus articolul pentru a primi statutul de articol de calitate, însă cererea mea a fost repsinsă. Au existat multe obiecţii (chiar multe care nu aveau nicio legătură cu criteriile pentru WP:FA), şi le-am îndeplinit până acum pe toate (mai puţin unele dintre ele care erau păreri personale, şi nu ţineau strict de criteriile pentru articole de calitate). Acest lucru îl poţi vedea pe această pagină, unde se află conţinutul de la Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cluj-Napoca/archive1, la care am adăugat comentariile mele despre ce s-a făcut şi ce nu. A mai rămas doar textul articolului (proza), care după cum relatează ceilalţi utilizatori nu este foarte corect (calitatea limbii engleze folosite este slabă). Am înscris articolul pe pagina Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors/Requests, numai că va dura destul de mult până ce se va găsi un corector ortografic, care să verifice articolul. De aceea dacă ai timp, te invit şi pe tine să faci unele corecturi la articol. Cu mulţumiri, --Danutz (talk) 11:05, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Romanian check

Hello Ronline. Could you please verify this edit? Thanks. Regards, Húsönd 21:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rate on quality scale

Hi, I am working on Taiwanese opera and trying to expand it.You wrote you are interested in Taiwan so I would like to ask you to watch that article and rate on the scope of Wikiproject China or give me some opinions or comments on this article. This is my first time to contribute on wikipedia.I will be thankful if you could give me more ideas about this article.ThanksQwaszxfish (talk)04:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Romanian topics

Hi. Any thoughts on this ? Ha! (talk) 15:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coldplay

Hi, you seem to be a fairly prolific editor here at Wikipedia. So, I don't understand why you would change 'are' to 'is' in Coldplay if it explicitly states NOT to change it? I would imagine that if there was a note explicitly asking not to change it, then one would question why that was there. Anyways, please see the Talk page next time an inline comment like that is made because a note like that usually suggests that an issue was previously brought up on the Talk page and was subsequently resolved with the inline comment. Thanks. (The relevant discussion can be found at Talk:Coldplay/Archive_2#Is_.2F_Are_Dispute) Gary King (talk) 03:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Replied on my talk page Gary King (talk) 03:24, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Be An Angel logo.jpg

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[edit] Voting

Hi! Here is a voting about Bendery/Bender/Tighina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bender%2C_Moldova#Statement_of_Title_Solution --80.142.252.220 (talk) 19:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


aa - ab - af - ak - als - am - an - ang - ar - arc - as - ast - av - ay - az - ba - bar - bat_smg - bcl - be - be_x_old - bg - bh - bi - bm - bn - bo - bpy - br - bs - bug - bxr - ca - cbk_zam - cdo - ce - ceb - ch - cho - chr - chy - co - cr - crh - cs - csb - cu - cv - cy - da - de - diq - dsb - dv - dz - ee - el - eml - en - eo - es - et - eu - ext - fa - ff - fi - fiu_vro - fj - fo - fr - frp - fur - fy - ga - gan - gd - gl - glk - gn - got - gu - gv - ha - hak - haw - he - hi - hif - ho - hr - hsb - ht - hu - hy - hz - ia - id - ie - ig - ii - ik - ilo - io - is - it - iu - ja - jbo - jv - ka - kaa - kab - kg - ki - kj - kk - kl - km - kn - ko - kr - ks - ksh - ku - kv - kw - ky - la - lad - lb - lbe - lg - li - lij - lmo - ln - lo - lt - lv - map_bms - mdf - mg - mh - mi - mk - ml - mn - mo - mr - mt - mus - my - myv - mzn - na - nah - nap - nds - nds_nl - ne - new - ng - nl - nn - no - nov - nrm - nv - ny - oc - om - or - os - pa - pag - pam - pap - pdc - pi - pih - pl - pms - ps - pt - qu - quality - rm - rmy - rn - ro - roa_rup - roa_tara - ru - rw - sa - sah - sc - scn - sco - sd - se - sg - sh - si - simple - sk - sl - sm - sn - so - sr - srn - ss - st - stq - su - sv - sw - szl - ta - te - tet - tg - th - ti - tk - tl - tlh - tn - to - tpi - tr - ts - tt - tum - tw - ty - udm - ug - uk - ur - uz - ve - vec - vi - vls - vo - wa - war - wo - wuu - xal - xh - yi - yo - za - zea - zh - zh_classical - zh_min_nan - zh_yue - zu -