Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gavin Hoyte (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Yes, it does seem perverse for a player who will undoubtedly play professionally for someone at some point (even if it's not Arsenal), but WP:BIO is clear and we can't predict the future. Should he pass that test, please contact myself or any admin to have the article undeleted immediately. Black Kite 23:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gavin Hoyte

Gavin Hoyte (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Player has never played at a professional level. Friendly matches and youth international appearances do not meet criteria per WP:Athlete and WikiProject Football notability. Nothing stating that he will likely make an appearance any time soon, and such speculation would fail WP:CRYSTAL.

• Delete as nom. crassic\^talk 05:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:08, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Comment Why does the article have a PROD template on it rather than AfD...........? ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment this AfD can not have a legitimate outcome if the article does not have the AfD template on it. English peasant 10:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Seems to be sorted now....... ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Yeah I sorted it before I !voted. English peasant 10:54, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
        • It was my mistake. Thank you for fixing it. crassic\^talk 12:37, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - no professional level appearances as yet, IMO should never have been kept last time. If he hasn't even broken in to the Arsenal Carling Cup team yet, he's probably not in the next batch of youngsters queueing up to break in to the first team either. - fchd (talk) 08:28, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:BIO#Athletes as he has never played in a fully professional league. Until he has done so there remains the chance that he will never actually make an appearance and disappear into obscurity. пﮟოьεԻ 57 08:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete no first team appearances, no notability. --Angelo (talk) 10:08, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:FOOTY/Notability. Speculation that he is about to break through into the first team is irrelevant (WP:CRYSTAL), youth caps do not confer notability (Olympics excepted) playing in pre-season friendlies and having a contract/squad number neither. The Gavin Hoyte#Arsenal career statistics section says it all. If he ever plays at professional level the article can easily be recreated. I am also unsure about the validity of the hidden message at the top of the page instructing admins not to delete it, is this good practice? I think it should be deleted. English peasant 10:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete' as non-notable. GiantSnowman (talk) 13:16, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Strong keep - he has signed a full professional contract, [1] played for England U17s at the FIFA U-17 World Cup,[2] and been given a first-team squad number at Arsenal. [3]. He has been named on the substitute's bench for three matches (FA Cup v. Blackburn Rovers [4], Football League Cup v. Newcastle United [5] and Sheffield United [6]) but has not played. He has also been profiled extensively on Arsenal's and the Football Association's websites [7] [8] both of which are significant coverage in my view. Qwghlm (talk) 13:36, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
  • The Arsenal website isn't an independent source, though....... ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:57, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Note under-17 caps do not confer notability, sitting on the bench and watching and recieving a squad number do not confer notability either according to WP:ATHLETE or WP:FOOTYN. If he makes his debut the article can be undeleted straight away. As it stands now it doesn't meet the criteria. English peasant 14:09, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Receiving a squad number does not mean he is notable. See the squad template, as three other players with numbers do not have Wikipedia pages (#44 Ogogo, #45 Dunne, and #47 Steer) - likely due to notability issues. crassic\^talk 17:56, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete The reversal of deletion in this document was for understandable reasons, but the decision does not appear to have been made in keeping with the razor of the agreed criteria. This case has been cited many times in argument for the retention of articles that do not meet the criteria, and inappropriate precedents should not be allowed to stand. Kevin McE (talk) 15:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Keep, AFD is a foregone conclusion but he has appeared on Arsenal's bench for the Carling Cup on multiple occasions, and he'll have an article again anyway as he's bound to embark on a league career. Esteffect (talk) 18:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
  • When did he appear in the Carling Cup? He may have appeared on the bench... crassic\^talk 22:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
    • "he's bound to embark on a league career". That's a complete violation of WP:CRYSTAL. For all we know he may break his leg in training tomorrow and never play again. пﮟოьεԻ 57 23:11, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Weak Delete - Fails WP:BIO, though I do think this could be one of the cases were we use common sense and keep it, as one of the highest profile WP:FOOTYN-failing players. John Hayes^talk 11:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
• Keep According to WP:ATHLETE he meets the criteria - the FA Premier Reserve League is, de facto, fully professional, and he has appeared in same. He has represented his country. Qwghlm helpfully points to some relevant references, particularly on the FA website. Hoyte also had a lengthy biographical article featured in Four Four Two, the copy of which I can't place for the moment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eborbuses (talk • contribs)
  • Comment - as a reserve league, the FA Premier Reserve League is outside the English football pyramid, and therefore appearances made do not confer notability. robwingfield ^«T•C» 21:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. No first team appearances. Ck12 (talk) 17:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions. —Pixelface (talk) 08:23, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and пﮟოьεԻ 57. robwingfield ^«T•C» 21:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - none of reserve/youth team fixtures, England youth team appearances and sitting on the bench for the main team surmount to notability, and without non-trivial 3rd-party reliable sources he doesn't pass WP:N. If he does play a first team appearance then no prejudice against recreation (although I don't think anyone would contest that). AllynJ (talk | contribs) 00:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:ATHLETE BanRay 13:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:ATHLETE. Being on the bench or getting a squad number butters no parsnips. If, for example, we gave him an article then he gets a career-ending injury we get stuck with a page on someone who has done nothing notable. TerriersFan (talk) 05:22, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:ATHLETE. See Nathan Delfouneso's most recent AfD. Struway2 (talk) 13:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.