Talk:Portland Trail Blazers

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Portland Trail Blazers is currently a good article nominee. Anyone who has not contributed significantly to this article may review it according to the good article criteria to decide whether or not to list it as a good article, as outlined on the nominations page. To start the review process, follow this link to create a dedicated subpage for the review. (If you have already done this, and the template has not changed, try purging this talk page.) Date: 02:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

	Portland Trail Blazers was a nominee for good article, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result December 1, 2007 Peer review Reviewed January 4, 2008 Peer review Reviewed April 2, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed Current Status: Former good article nominee

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This article was a Collaboration of the Week for WikiProject Oregon from November 4-November 12, 2007.

Contents 1 Schrempf 2 The Trade on Feb 23 3 Speculation about moving to Vancouver BC 4 "Only major league team" 5 Greg Olson 6 The Portland Trail Blazers template 7 Logo 8 Infobox display problem 9 Ime Udoka 10 POV Pushing 11 History: Edit and Merge 12 Why is this article so boring? 13 Other Notable Players 14 Pictures 15 Remove 2006 info 16 COTW 17 Images and copyright 18 Confusion about Ownership. 19 Placed article on peer review 20 Bloated Transactions section 21 Portland Trail Blazers accomplishments and records? 22 Comments on GA nomination 23 GA Review 24 Final GA Review 25 Bloated

[edit] Schrempf

I didn't really feel Schrempf belonged in the Not to be Forgotten section considering he played barely 100 games for the Blazers in two seasons, averaging maybe 6ppg... if you include him you'd have to include just about everyone who ever played for the team. Sarge Baldy 14:51, May 12, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The Trade on Feb 23

All media accounts that I've read indicate that it's structured as a four-team trade, not as a three-team trade between Portland, Seattle, and Denver followed by a two-team trade between Portland and Sacramento. (Early reports had it structured the other way; but I would be surprised if the league would allow that to happen, for various reasons). In which case it's incorrect to suggest that VP was ever a Trail Blazer. --EngineerScotty 00:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Speculation about moving to Vancouver BC

There was a paragraph added by User:24.207.50.75 in which speculation about moving to Vancouver BC was noted. Please add the source if you intend to put these comments back into the article. Davidpdx 09:19, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Only major league team"

I deleted the sentence, until agreement (Wikipedia-wide) is reached on what constitutes a "major league team". Obviously, the Winterhawks and Beavers aren't in the most major leagues of their respective sports, but what of the LumberJax? Or does lacrosse not count? --EngineerScotty 18:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greg Olson

I will leave it to somebody else, but Greg Olson (team CFO) points to Greg Olson(s) the baseball players. Nick22aku 22:22, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Portland Trail Blazers template

Someone recently subst'ed the template {{Portland Trail Blazers}}, I've put it back as a transclusion. The template is included in several different places; but not enough such that transcluding it likely puts a load on the server.

--EngineerScotty 20:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Logo

What is the team logo supposed to represent? A compass? 69.137.220.179 19:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

"A modern graphic interpretation of the game of basketball, five players from one side playing against five players from another." [1] Punctured Bicycle 20:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The original is meant to represent 69, as in the year of the founding 1969. Aboutmovies 07:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox display problem

The 1977 Championship isn't displaying in the infobox ("None" displays instead). Can someone fix this? Editor88 02:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

A pipe was missing on the previous line. Punctured Bicycle 04:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ime Udoka

In the roster template he has a Nigerian flag next to his name. He was born in Portland so he's not really an international player. If no one has anything against that I'll change it.

he played for the nigerian team in the world basketball finals so yeah

[edit] POV Pushing

"... players who were talented, but who had questionable attitudes ... This worked initially, ... but the strategy soon backfired on the Blazers as the local community soured [2]on a team better known for its off-court antics than for its on-court abilities. ...The current management and team players have been re-connecting with the community at large."

All of this is blatant pushing of a point of view. An encyclopedia has a very specific purpose, and providing analysis isn't it.

Also, the moniker "Jailblazers" dates from before 1996. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bsharvy (talk • contribs) 23:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Please discuss changes you propose to make before making them. Please do not push point of views or personal judgements; they don't belong in an encyclopedia. There is a separate article dedicated exclusively to the history of the Trailblazers: that is where is details of Whitsit's management from 10 years ago belong. In no case, do judgements about his management belong there (or here). Claims that so-and-so had "questionable attitudes" are personal judgements: they do not belong in an encyclopedia. The details of the financial arrangement between Paul Allen's company and the bondholders' behind the financing of the Blazer's stadium are far too temporal and trivial to be in an encyclopedia. Bsharvy

I'm late to this conversation, and haven't read all the relevant text. But the poor community relations, and subsequent improvement, is a phenomenon that's been well-documented in local and national media. It's a major aspect of the recent history of the team, and definitely belongs in the article in some form…though I agree that the quote above is not ideal. -Pete 15:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History: Edit and Merge

I don't see much value in having a spearate page for the history of the Blazers. Neither the Celtics nor the Knicks have a separate history page, despite considerably more history. The page, as it stand, is 80% gossip anyway. I propose editing out the non-neutral statements and merging the history entry with entry for the Blazers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsharvy (talk • contribs) 02:33, April 20, 2007

If what you say is true, 80% gossip; then that page should be edited first; then merged into this page. Not the other way around. Dbiel ^(Talk) 08:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Seperate entry: Agreed we should merge the the history into the Blazers. the teams 37 year history should not be summed up in two paragraphs on the main page —Preceding unsigned comment added by BlazerPete (talk • contribs) 00:47, June 7, 2007

[edit] Why is this article so boring?

This article should talk about Bill Walton, Clyde Drexler and the culture of Blazermania. Why isn't there a Wikipedia entry for Blazermania? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.201.133 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Other Notable Players

This list is not sustainable. It included players who never played (Ramon Ramos), players who played one season and only started half of it (Steve Blake) or none of it (Steve Kerr), players who were rarely more than mop-up players (Alaa Abdelnaby), and so on. Unless there is some massive reason for an exception, an average player who spent one or two seasons with the team really doesn't belong. I propose deleting the following: Alaa Abdelnaby Danny Ainge Steve Blake Leroy Ellis Antonio Harvey John Johnson Steve Kerr Jeff Lamp Danny Young

Please don't revert someone's edit without discussion.

Blake was fast, Kerr was good with threes, and Young wasn't that bad of a scorer. Those might be left in, but the rest need to go. Basketballoneten 18:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Just an FYI on the pictures. These were the only ones I found that did not require a fair use rationale. Pictures of people on this page would not likely pass the fair use rationle if the pictures are copyrighted, thus the need for free pictures. So if you can find more, I think it would be good to add a few more (Paul Allen, Nate McMillan, and Bill Walton come to mind) strategically throughout the article. Aboutmovies 16:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remove 2006 info

Its getting old, take it out before it gets moldy. SoldierOfColbert 01:03, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] COTW

Since this is the collaboration of the week for Wikipedia:WikiProject Oregon, a quick suggestion on how to improve the article... look at Toronto Raptors as a template. That article is the only NBA team article which is a feature article. --EngineerScotty 18:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

You beat me to this suggestion. Additionally, here's a link to the version that was in place when it passed FA. There's been about 450 edits to the article since then. — Zaui (talk) 21:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images and copyright

A while back I went through and added any free pics I coud find, which is why it is limited to Clyde and Paul. Feel free to look for more. The Ramsay pic is copyrighted and would very likely fail any fair use rationale if a fair use was even added. It might work if it was accompanied by commentary about the picture, but not as just decoration. And that's the problem with most of the Blazer pics. Aboutmovies 00:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confusion about Ownership.

Is it me or is the section about Paul Allen selling the team buying the team back in 2007 confusing? It's clear that he bought the team in 88 and "mysteriously took the team off the market" But, then 2007 starts with Allen buying the team again. When did he sell it? Who to? Maybe I mis read, but it seemed really confusing to me. 141.158.231.88 22:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

• Fixed; Allen repurchased the Rose Garden arena, which he had previously lost in a bankruptcy. Allen has owned the Trail Blazers continuously since 1988.--EngineerScotty 18:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Placed article on peer review

What the title says. The Chronic 05:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bloated Transactions section

The transactions section, in particular the list of draft picks, is ridiculously long and contains a lot of non-notable picks. More than half of these could be cut from this list, and/or moved to the rather underutilized List of transactions involving the Portland Trail Blazers article. I say keep the #1 picks (Walton, Oden, etc), league award winners, All-Star quality players, infamous picks (Bowie), and remove/move the rest. --Billdorr (talk) 09:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portland Trail Blazers accomplishments and records?

I suggest to create Portland Trail Blazers accomplishments and records page, where all the information from the League record performances and Player honors sections could be transferred. For examples, take a look at Los Angeles Lakers accomplishments and records and Toronto Raptors accomplishments and records.--Crzycheetah 09:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comments on GA nomination

There are recurring WP:MOS problems to be fixed, most notably the use of dashes in scores, through-years and season names. Chensiyuan (talk) 00:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd fix them as I see them but please comb through again for any misses. I've also de-wikified standalone year dates as they're not required. At the same time I'd try to wikify relevant stuff. Chensiyuan (talk) 00:04, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

For convenience, these are the guidelines I'm referring to:

"Wikipedia has articles on days of the year, years, decades, centuries and millennia. Link to one of these pages only if it is likely to deepen readers' understanding of a topic."

For en and em dashes, see WP:DASH. Chensiyuan (talk) 00:18, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

For the section on "Player honors" (and its subsections), please use a uniform style. There are now at least three variations, viz.:

• Brandon Roy: One nomination, 2008
• LaMarcus Aldridge. Participated in the 2008 Rookie Challenge as a sophomore.
• Cliff Robinson appeared in the 1996 Three-Point Shootout.

Furthermore, some have full-stops and some don't. Chensiyuan (talk) 00:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

This sentence (apart from the obvious grammatical error) "Five players who have been inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame as players have played for the Trail Blazers.; as have four players named to the NBA's Top 50 Players:" doesn't make sense. Chensiyuan (talk) 00:46, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

There are also quite a number of POV issues, I think they're quite self-evident so I won't list examples unless asked to. This article has undergone a solid revamp over the months so don't let the GA nom be let down by POV! Chensiyuan (talk) 00:50, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I gave it a once-over for POV phrases, consistency issues, etc. Still need to work on dashes and other style issues. Also, two more structural things jumped out: some earlier "Jail Blazer" examples (e.g. Rider's marijuana bust) should be cited, so that the moniker makes sense when it's introduced; and Sabonis' story should be told in more detail. -Pete (talk) 20:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

Sorry to make you wait even longer, but I'll be posting my review shortly (it'll be a long one). Noble Story (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

The review is posted here. Noble Story (talk) 14:00, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Final GA Review

Review of Portland Trail Blazers

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

After keeping this on hold for seven days, the work towards eliminating the long lists in this article has not really started. So, I think it would be best if you would agree on what to do with all those lists, execute the plan, and come back with a better article for GAN. (Note: the full review is here)

Noble Story (talk) 02:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bloated

As people may have noticed, this is more than 80KB long, which means its too long by most standards, and means it takes a long time to load. I already moved most of the media controversy to the history article, and would like to do a similar job on the regular history section of this article. I think it should be shrunk in about half with the removed portions integrated into the history sub-article (which is poorly sourced, so this would actually improve that article). I would also like to do the same with the "Blazermania" section, including moving the attendance numbers there as well. Lastly, under the "Players Honors" section, move all of it except the retired numbers. Again, this saves space, and the retired numbers part is the only part that really relates solely to the team and things within its control. Thoughts, other ideas for shrinkage? I think this would also help streamline for another run at GA. Aboutmovies (talk) 02:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I shrinked "Players Honors" a bit. And if you want to split the section, take inspiration in this (someone even suggested in a above post). But remember: we NEED notable players or such. Also, maybe it would be good a page like this. igordebraga ≠ 01:44, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

There is already a page for information like that. List of transactions involving the Portland Trail Blazers. --Billdorr (talk) 09:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I just created a page that I suggested three months ago. Portland Trail Blazers accomplishments and records is now created!--Crzycheetah 07:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)