Talk:Peru

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Contents 1 Slimming 2 Clean-up 3 Provinces= 3.1 = 4 Peru Project 5 National language(s) of Peru 6 Clarification of Mestizo 7 Improvement Drive 8 Great Information 9 Perú in W:ES 10 Growing in 2005 11 World War II 12 vandalism 12.1 Eric Walker 13 Colca Canyon? 14 National motto 15 Original Research 16 Economy 17 Update needed in Economy section 18 Administrative Divisions 19 Modern Politics 20 Martires de la Pacificacion 21 Manjar Blanco 22 Unclear paragraph 23 Art 24 It's necessary... 25 Recent Political History 26 Translations 27 Establishment info on the Infobox 28 Nuevo sol 29 Protection 30 too much 31 Photo Gallery 32 Por que 33 Population Miscalculation 34 Quechua lang officiality 35 Flag 36 Religion 37 Would like to add subwiki link 38 GA on hold 39 GA passed 40 overview section new paragraph 41 GDP Figure and Source 42 Name Etymology 43 Inclusiveness 44 Official coat of arms 45 Rational behind why the Blue Map needs to go 46 About pictures 47 QUAKE 48 Meteorite Sickens Peru 49 Food 50 Link 51 Spanish is not the sole official language 52 Peru v. Perú 53 Semi-protect? 54 Economic data and possible vandalism 55 Trial of Fujimori 56 Very Short 57 Graphic 58 Agregar link a "EXTERNAL LINKS" del Perú y otros... 59 Poverty rate's changed and so economy 60 2007 CENSUS RESULTS ARE ALREADY IN THE WEBPAGE OF INEI

[edit] Slimming

This page is starting to grow over 49kbs, so I'm curious if anyone else would like to help slim down this page. Much of what is on this page, is already on another page that is dedicated to the specific topics. So it's my thought that we should summarize the sections with main pages already existing, maybe even create new pages that go indepth for the sections that don't have one yet... This would slim down the page, and allow more detailed information to be organized better. Anyone else concur? Pvt Mahoney 22:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid i don't agree with youAvilezj (talk) 13:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-up

I cleaned up the talk page to help organize it better, so that people would better understand what is trying to be portrayed b bit and makes them better understood. If anyone has any issue with my revision, please contact me on my talk page and I will gladly explain things more. Good day all! Pvt Mahoney 23:23, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

• Could You please take the APRA logo out from the page?? It's not necessary. Thanks.

• I am just learning Wikipedia editting language - so I don't know where to put this ...

There is nothing on the Peru page that deals with Peruvian Slave Traders, although both the Easter Island page and the Tokelau page have links to the Peru page in the section that discusses slavery. Someone needs to add a section on the Peruvian slavers to make this page more historically accurate. (I would do it if I had the time ...) Thanks, Lehasa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lehasa (talk • contribs) 18:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Provinces=

On the page states that Callao is one of the regions. or as we call them Departamentos. El Callao is a constitutional province (the only contitutional one) and Lima is a region. That needs to be changed but I cannot do it. Can somebody please change that? thank you!

[edit] =

[edit] Peru Project

Join the Peru Project!
Visit also the Peru Portal

Aidanb 14:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] National language(s) of Peru

This page states only Spanish is official, but Quechua, Aymara and others are recognized as local languages in areas they are used. Demographics of Peru page states there are two official languages - spanish and quechua. Which page is correct?2.135.200.67 00:28, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Peruvian constitution recognizes Quechua as an official language, so official publications and documents could be written, at least in theory, in both languages

It is my understanding that Quechua and much less Aymara are only spoken by a minority of Peruvians (this depending on the region of the country). In Peru's biggest cities such as Lima, Trujillo, and Arequipa, Quechua and Aymara are spoken on a very low scale. Some Universities in these cities do offer classes of these indigenous languages for those interested in learning them for educational and cultural purposes. There are also, of course, native speakers of Quechua and Aymara and their heavily accented Spanish makes this very evident in the largest cities. Thus it is proper to state that Quechua, Aymara and "other" languages (or dialects for that matter) are spoken as "local" languages in areas of more native or non-mestizo populations of Peru. --Dynamax 18:21, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Article 48 of the constitution reads: Official languages are Spanish and, in the areas where they predominate, Quechua, Aymara and other aborigenal languages, according to law. QVanillaQ 02:06, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Quecha and Aymara are official languages of Peru, according to the official language act of 1975.---Marco524

Spanish is the first official language and quechua is the second. Aymara is also the offical language. These last tw are almost not speaken in the coast, but mainly in the highlands Avilezj (talk) 13:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification of Mestizo

"At the national level, mestizos constitute the second largest segment of the population, at around 37% of the total population. The term traditionally denotes Amerindian ancestry, and most Peruvian mestizos are of this combination"

Of what combination? Seems to be missing the mezcla in mestizo, I feel kind of stupid posting somthing this minor on the talk page but the article is protected for some reason so I'll leave this to a reged user to fix 24.69.68.73 13:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improvement Drive

South America is currently nominated to be improved on Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. You can support the article with your vote.--Fenice 12:14, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Great Information

This page hs given me so much information for my current project in my spanish class. I am the extremly lucky one to get peru to be my country to research. Anyone know anything about peru? Please tell me!! thanks! runnerfast11 18:00, 2006 January 18 (UTC)

You'd be amazed at what you'd find here just by clicking links.Pvt Mahoney 19:51, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perú in W:ES

Check up the organization of es:Perú --Huhsunqu 18:38, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Growing in 2005

Somebody wrote, the Economist has seen Peru as the country with 6th biggest economy growing in 2005. I Strongly doubt this, as I can already name you at least 2 in southamerica only, which had a higher rise: Argentina and Venezuela between 8% - 9,5%. Thats not to count any ASIAN country like China and India, which never fall under 8% growth every year(and there are more with high growth) Therefore please show the exact source, where this is stated in "The economist". Thanks--194.203.215.254 10:15, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

just an example, eventhough its from 2004, I put it in here for comparison purposes. With theoretical growth of 6,67% in 2004, a country would have be ranked 39th in 04. [1] --194.203.215.254 10:36, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I actually would not be suprised if it was in sixth place because Latin America and Asia are both growing at an extremly fast pace (much faster than other regions in the world) but on the other hand only a small handful of Asian countries are expanding rapidly. Vivaperucarajo 04:38, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

definitely much more countries expand faster than 6,67%...I do not say that 6,67 is little, but there are far more countries growing more than this, please verify this link, on second page >>>>>>[2]<<<<<< 194.203.215.254 14:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World War II

Anyone got any evidence or references for the claim in the history section that the Peruvians destroyed 2 German warships in 1943 and 1944? The claim of a "battleship" is highly unlikely, unless it's a miss-translation. Folks at 137 18:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Despite searching and advertising for help, I've found no evidence for the claims. They should be removed asap. Folks at 137 19:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, also the reference to the U-boat sinking should be removed - cannot find any evidence for this either. Why is this article under full protection ? Bwithh 21:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed. Folks at 137 13:05, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vandalism

I can't sort throgh it all. The article needs to be closely checked to separate the good from the bad.Dlohcierekim 19:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eric Walker

Anon took him out after I put him back. Don't know if he belongs.Dlohcierekim 19:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

68.254.180.161 what's up. What are you trying to say and what are you trying to protest with yours vandalisms? Teemu Ruskeepää 18:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what happened, but the page doesn't look good--Granpire Viking Man 14:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colca Canyon?

I'm not really sure how it's spelled and I don't have any real info on the subject, but I spent a large portion of my mission trip to Peru in Colca Canyon, yet I've seen no information on it in this article. Any idea why this would be? They seem important enough to me. Useless Fodder 08:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National motto

Peru has no national motto. Fuerte y Feliz por la Unión was only used on coins issued during the Independence War. That doesn't make it the national motto. So don't restore it (or any whatsoever) unless you have concrete proof that it is so. --Victor12 15:17, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

It was used later than during the independence wars, but I can find no proof that it has been used since the 1910s, so I'm removing it. Pruneau^talk 20:50, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Firme y feliz por la unión is the national motto as you can see from the following refrences below. I apologize that their descriptions are in spanish as I copied them from the spanish wikipedia.

• Dr Valentín Paniagua Corazao Mensaje del Presidente constitucional del Perú,, el 22 de noviembre del 2000 Estoy absolutamente persuadido, señores Representantes, que en este clima tal vez podamos iniciar el proceso de enrumbar el país por la senda del progreso, haciendo que sea verdad el lema que acuñaron los próceres fundadores como promesa y apuesta para el futuro del Perú: "Firme y feliz por la unión".

• PASSARELL (Elias del Carmen). El Perú firme y feliz por la unión. Lima 1916. Libro citado por Jorge Basadre en 1971 en Introducción a las bases documentales para la historia de la República del Perú

• Revista del Archivo Nacional del Perú 1959 - Página 118. El de "La Unión" viene a ser como síntesis de aquel conjunto y no poco afin al lema: "Firme y feliz por la Unión" que acompaña a la figura de la República

• Federico Kaufmann Doig. 1968. Sociedad Académica de Estudios Americanos. Distribuidora Inca. Historia general de los peruanos, desde sus oriǵenes hasta el presente. Al fundarse la Independencia, surgió también, un anhelo de concierto y comunidad: "Firme y feliz por la Unión", dijo, por eso, el lema impreso en la moneda peruana

• Gonzalo Falla Carrillo: En búsqueda de la identidad perdida, o cómo nos queremos más y hacemos realidad aquel lema de los albores de la República: “¡Firme y feliz por la unión!”.

• Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores del Perú: Vuelto al Perú, en 1826 se le encomendó uno de los cargos de mayor amplitud de responsabilidades entonces vigente, el de Director General de Minería, Agricultura, Instrucción Pública y Museo, iniciando así una innovadora trayectoria como funcionario de la joven república, a la que aportó su discernimiento, su aspiración de progreso en justicia y su amor por el Perú. Esto, lastimosamente no halló el correlato político indispensable para su plasmación duradera, que habría contribuido a enrumbar al país hacia la segura prosperidad en la convergencia de miras y en la fidelidad al no cristalizado lema nacional: "Firme y Feliz por la Unión".

• Rafael Larco Herrera Firme y Feliz por la Union; el bello lema de nuestra patria; en su libro "América en las trincheras de la democracia"

• Comisión Ejecutiva del Poder Judicial. Lima, Julio de 1998. Saludo a la ciudadanía y al poder judicial con motivo de celebrarse el 177 aniversario de la independencia nacional. Frente a ellos que nos legaron una Patria soberana y libre de toda dominación extranjera, los peruanos de hoy tenemos un gran reto que consiste en seguir construyendo nuestra emancipación mediante el fortalecimiento de las instituciones, luchando por la integración nacional, brindando nuestro trabajo allí donde nos encontremos, con honestidad, eficiencia y eficacia, para hacer del Perú una Nación grande, próspera y en Paz, que haga realidad nuestro viejo emblema republicano: "Firme y Feliz por la Unión".

• Pleno Juridiccional del derecho laboral de Arequipa. Julio de 1998. Estas no son simples palabras huecas o sin sentido; les anuncio que un nuevo tiempo ha llegado, donde el clamor de Justicia recorre nuestras playas, los andes y montañas, donde se harán sentir con la fuerza propia del peruano, basado en nuestro antiquísimo precepto de ser Firme y Feliz por la Unión.

• Salazar Bondy, Sebastián. Escritos politicos y morales (1954-1965): No es reciente el uso de esa idea, que tantas veces se nos ofrece como meramente adulatoria. La verdad es que hay muy poco que la expresen con la convicción de que es necesario dar a los jovenes una oportunidad de intervenir en la obra de gobierno la cual es, sin duda, la de crear una patria "Firme y feliz por la Unión" como lo decidieron los fundadores.

• Salazar Bondy, Sebastián. Recuperar la ciudad perdida. Así se retornara a la legitima comunidad esa que esta levantada sólidamente sobre las bases de la reciproca admiración sin rencores ni escisiones, tal como destella el simbolo peruano "Firme y feliz por la union".
• Historiador FREDY GAMBETTA: «PROBLEMA, ES EN EFECTO Y POR DESGRACIA EL PERÚ; PERO TAMBIÉN, FELIZMENTE, POSIBILIDAD». A todo lo anterior creo un deber rescatar, para estos tiempos modernos, del siglo XXI, el viejo lema con el que nació la república: FIRME Y FELIZ POR LA UNIÓN.

• Congresista Valenvia Dongo Cardenas (UN): Es por eso que consideramos que es un deber de la Nación cuidar de sus hijos. Estoy seguro, señor Presidente, que si Pedro Planas viviera, no creo que sintiera que la Nación estuviera en deuda con él, su gran generosidad estaba por encima de mezquindades; pero es una labor y es un deber y es una responsabilidad de la Nación cuidar de sus hijos, señor Presidente, porque él, como los héroes de la Patria, entregó su vida por el Perú, por un Perú firme y feliz por la unión.

• Dr. Jesus Lazo Costa. Simposio: Unidad Nacional factor importante para el desarrollo nacional. Ejército del Perú. Piura. Tema de exposición: FIRME Y FELIZ POR LA UNION

• Municipalidad de San Borja Escudo del Perú con el lema "Firme y feliz por la unión".

• Juan Ricardo Vásquez Docente Universitario. Nuestro lema nacional: Resulta conveniente y consecuente recuperar oficialmente y como segundo paso la antigua frase: “Firme y feliz por la unión”, buscando su amplia difusión en todos los confines de la República y en los diversos niveles. Hechos y actividades como los expuestos deben recuperarse. Resultaría muy hermoso para los peruanos que se lograse nuevamente que el El Peruano y todas las instituciones estatales, así como nuestros billetes porten como lema oficial: “Firme y feliz por la unión”, y paralelamente que todos los gobiernos desarrollen una campaña de docencia cívico-patriótica acerca de su urgente y necesaria interpretación.

Vivaperucarajo (talk) 21:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

As you are posting in the English Wikipedia you should translate your references from Spanish to English out of respect to the majority of the community that can not read Spanish. Now, as for the references themselves, I do not think they qualify as reliable sources per the guidelines set at WP:SOURCES. Most of them are personal opinions or tangential references to the "Firme y feliz..." phrase; there's not a single scholarly source that clearly states that the phrase is the national motto of Peru. Furthermore there is no piece of legislation that states so, whereas the national flag, coat of arms and anthem are clearly established by law. If you want we can discuss each of the quotes you provided but first check which of those qualify as reliable sources. --Victor12 (talk) 22:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Original Research

This page is flooded with it. I am putting this page on my watchlist, which I should have done a long time ago, to stop IPs from adding OR and POV commentary.--Jersey Devil 23:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and the English is awkward and unidiomatic (I believe that English isn't the first language of the main contributor(s)). Needs work. Kemet 17:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

The tone has been proud, thankful and narstistic. It has completely ignored all other modes, school of thoughts, lifestyles and economy models. It has been downright selfish tone, which expects everybody to bow to the liberal markets and when being critical, only tobe ignorant of the essential and obvious superiority of liberal market theories.

This is a good example of the attitude of neoliberalists and elite capitalists, who are simply engulfing the entire planet, all the indigenous cultures and all the national economies into their global markest. They are doing this outside and regardless of all national and transnational parliaments and while they create their own global power structure, they are not forced to justify their power in any way, but just to expect from every political and individual observer a humble and a non-resistant assimilation of the capitalist theory!

The text needs to be more self-critical, to acknowledge socialist, social democratic and center economic theories and to be comparative between different theories and ideas.

I have downsized this egoism and tried to modify the text to a more realistic and objective level. Please discuss about my modifications here if you think it needs to be reverted, and before you revert it! Teemu Ruskeepää 10:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think your edits need to be reverted after seeing them they seem to just take away a few weasel words. But for future reference I do have some suggestions:

1) Do not make edit summaries such as the following: no one reduces poverty in neoliberalism. This is fact. However capitalists do always and constantly make decisions about the environment for their markets[3]; Hippocritical apologies to make a capitalist's political image look more acceptable [4]; growth has more than one meaning! Also, growth is not good but only a deliberate market liberal action by capitalists [5]. These are, quite frankly, blatently hostile and not in the style of Wikipedia. They expose your POV, making you look like you are pushing it in this article instead of trying to dePOV it.

2) After you finish making large edits to articles, please do not come onto the talk page and make further, hostile, comments such as "which expects everybody to bow to the liberal markets" or "This is a good example of the attitude of neoliberalists and elite capitalists, who are simply engulfing the entire planet, all the indigenous cultures and all the national economies into their global markest". No one comes to Wikipedia to hear your opinion about liberalization of markets.--Jersey Devil 15:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your heavy critisism.

I have designed them to do that, expose my POV. I'm trying to influence people who think otherwise. I don't believe I'm hostile but rather polemic. It's a good way of awaking people's real POV's about this.

I believe it's better to give a strong reason for a strong modification, especially when my modifications represent my POVs, which are quite radical in comparison to the common view. Also, exactly because Wikipedia is not for POVs, I have revealed my full POV in the discussion page, not in the article. I believe I have a right to represent my POV in making Wikipedia, whilst making my edits true to all sides but critical to the opposite point of view. I think that my reasons in the discussion will affect the writer so that he believe his POVs are wrong. You should know that it is possible to give a point of view indirectly and via the tone, emphasis and other nyances. This is what the writer had done and this is what my POV's in the discussion page challenge. It is not wrong or unusual to have POVs in Wikipedia, as long as they are in the discussion page, and as long as people can conduct themselves in respect to other peoples' POVs. After all, if we do not have the facts, we have to construct them the same way all facts are first created: through debate. We either can't avoid our point of views when we think of the society. What I'm saying is that I'm not changing the article according to my POVs but to make the text neutral from the writers POVs. One more thing, my POV is that it is not correct to discuss and to describe the economy in market economy terms. It doesn't acknowledge other systems, such as socialism. Many people might first object to this, as I have emphasized it in the text! =) Teemu Ruskeepää 17:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Update needed in Economy section

there's a line obviosly outdated about a free trade agreement being negotiated with Chile and Singapore: "Peru is negotiating a Free Trade Agreement with Chile, Mexico, Singapore and India which may be finished between March and April 2006." does anyone know what happened to those negotiations?

Not sure what happened to those negotiations, it might be more clear if it said "Peru is negotiating Free Trade Agreements" because it isnt a single agreement...to my knowledge they are still on the table, but much has been put on hold with the flurry over the US-PERU FTA. ALso there is another error that says that Peru is the second country in S. America to have signed an FTA...Chile was the first, Columbia signed one with the US- that has yet to be ratified by the respecitve congress' in February of 2006, and Peru was the third to sign in May of 2006.

[edit] Administrative Divisions

I'm in the process of getting the administrative division section up to date. the image i used is a little out of date, as Callao was not part of the last map. b_cubed 16:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Modern Politics

I encourage users to review my recent changes to this section. On a number of occassions, it has been edited to reflect a Pro-Fujimori stance. User:Bdean1963 10:50 21 August

On the other hand, it seems that we have a POV pusher here. I'm reverting once again your actions. Messhermit 15:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Just to show to some people that may be unaware of what happened, I'm posting the only approach that I attempted with you. You ignored and now you are playing the victim: Messhermit 15:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

---

Hello there. Your recent editions on Peru don't meet the criteria of what a NPOV article are supposed to have. The article in question is suppose to give a quick review of the history of the country, with facts and no speculations.

• In Peru, there has never been such discussion or open approach to the "race" issue (ignoring, of course, the last Presidential Elections in which they were use only for political purposes). Thus, your comments (and the use of words) that involve "indigenism" are out of place.
• The use of the words "Crisis of the Peruvian State" are your personal opinion. It is true that Peru has faced difficult times, but the state itself has not reach that category. Restrain yourself from using that term here in Wikipedia.
• What you claimed to be NPOV is the work of an international organization that has its own agenda and is clearly biased against former President Fujimori. The issue is currently being investigated by Chilean Courts, and Wikipedia is not a political forum to expose your claims nor a place where a person can be declared "guilty" with no fair trail.

Please avoid reverting the article. It does not add anything important and only promotes hate and political bias. Thanks. Messhermit 21:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

---

By this, I have exposed and expresed my doubts regarding the "neutrality" of this user. Thanks. Messhermit 15:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, nor really want to get involved in what is going on here but I saw this following edit summary by Bdean:

repeated response to vandalism and efforts to disseminate misinformation; prior Amnesty International cite deleted by user indicating refusal to follow Wiki guidelines [6]

Vandalism has a very specific meaning in Wikipedia, and your dispute with Messhermit is a content dispute not an issue of reverting vandalism. For future purposes please be more careful about the language you use. Thank you.--Jersey Devil 21:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martires de la Pacificacion

A Spanish-language article about Peru, "Martires de la Pacificacion", appears at User:TruthbringerToronto/Peru. I would be grateful if someone could review the information in the article and add a paraphrase of any relevant material in it to the Peru article. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 04:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I read it, and I believe that the only problem with that article is that it is mostly composed of political propaganda: That is, the APRA and how Garcia's first government attempted to solve the problem with Sendero. Since the APRA is now the ruling party of Peru, you can expect much more of this on the net. Messhermit 15:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manjar Blanco

The article has the following.

Caramel, also known as Manjar Blanco in Peru, is a very popular dessert.

Where did this statement come from? Manjar Blanco is not at all the same thing as caramel. Granted they are made from similar ingredients but the result is quite different. Perhaps this is a reflection of the fact that it is common in the U.S. to make a "quick and dirty" version of Manjar Blanco using condensed milk which resembles caramel more than Manjar Blanco. Nevertheless the statement is not correct. --Mcorazao 06:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unclear paragraph

From the European rationalist perspective, the Inca Empire has been seen like the utopia state. Nevertheless, this pragmatic interpretation tends to forget that the collision between two antithetic Weltanschauungs had a destructive impact on the harmony of the Inca Weltanschauung superiority, who took advantage of the Inca civil war triggered by two pretenders to the throne.

Maybe it's me who's stupid, but... I don't get it. I especially have a problem with 'who took advantage' - whom or what is this 'who' referring to? The Inca Weltanschauung superiority? Whatever it's trying to say, it must be possible to say it clearer. Obviously, I can't change it, as I don't know what it's trying to say. The Legend of Julie Egbert 02:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, I see what's happened. This was the original version:

From the European rationalist perspective, the Inca Empire has been seen like the utopia state. Nevertheless, this pragmatic interpretation tends to forget that the collision between two antithetic Weltanschauungs had a destructive impact on the harmony of the Inca Weltanschauung. Its spectacular collapse under a group of Spanish soldiers has been seen as a logical consequence of the Spanish technological superiority, who took advantage of the Inca civil war triggered by two pretenders to the throne.

The bold part was erased, creating a nonsense sentence. I'm restoring the original version. I'm not a fan of that either, to be honest, but at least it makes sense. The Legend of Julie Egbert 21:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I didn't notice the page is protected. I hope someone else can make the change I mentioned. The Legend of Julie Egbert 21:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Art

I am trying to find some Peruvian folktales. There is not anything like this referenced on this page nor is there anything in the Peru culture article. Could someone update the page with this information. I feel that folklore is important. Missjessica254 15:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

There are many and they come in the form of legends, time permitting I will do this. I just see this post, thank you so much for the tip. John Manuel-15:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It's necessary...

to move text from the last sections (1948-) of History to History of Peru. This article cann't so longer. I worked in the first sections, but I'm tired and not expert in modern times --Gimferrer 19:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Political History

I have changed the title of the entry to more closely reflect the historical record. --User:Bdean1963 3 Feb. 2007

Can you source your claim. I reverted back and wikified the title (your version wasnt wikified either) and look forward to your sources for your claim, SqueakBox 18:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, we don't need your feud with Messhermitt speading into other Peru-related articles. Please stop this immediately.--Jersey Devil 20:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia should remain impartial and particularly in the case of former President Fujimori, avoid taking sides on this dispute. I don't like this kind of disputes, but what can be done if someone keeps promoting an anti-Fujimori POV here? User:Bdean1963 is clearly promoting a political agenda and I don't understand neither his reasons nor his motives. As stated by User:Jersey Devil, let's avoid creating another dispute here. Messhermit 20:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright, this ends here. There have already been two pages that have had to be protected because of you two which themselves have extensive talk pages filled with personal attacks against each other. If this edit warring continues in this or any other article both of you will be blocked. I hope both of you take this warning seriously because I will block both of you if it continues. Thank you.--Jersey Devil 00:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Jersey Devil, thank you for your intervention, which I respect, although I disagree with your editorial actions, which in my estimation do not adequately reflect the historical record regarding political events in Peru (1980-2007). Your editorial intervention is discouraging, particularly in light of your removal of credible information about recent attacks on the freedom of expression in Peru. I encourage readers to review your claims regarding my conduct on Wikpdeia, specifically the exchanges I have had with User:Messhermit on Peru related issues. Regards, User:Bdean1963. 00:35, 4 February, 2007 (UTC)

Take note that I only reverted in order to maintain the article as it was before the contributions of yourself and Messhermit.--Jersey Devil 00:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I am a person that doesn't like to create troubles for others. I must say that I have done everything to solve this in a civilized way, and I'm sorry to read that you might have to use your powers as an Administrator to radically solve this at some point. For me, this issue is settle once User:Bdean1963 understands once and for all that Wikipedia is neither a political forum nor a place to promote his POV. If User:Bdean1963 doesn't end his political persecution against certain political actors of the Peruvian society here in Wikipedia or modifying its history, I'm afraid that he is going to keep on going over and over again. In my case, rest assure that I'll keep avoiding troubles. Messhermit 00:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a link in the peruvian politics external links section that refers to the 2006 elections. Isn't that link a little bit outdated?

[edit] Translations

Hi. I just started translating the requested articles about Peru and just finishe the Punta Negra article. Though it is translated literally from the spanish wikipedia, I don't really know how to format it or improve the article estetically, so I'd like anyone here to do so. Also, it'd be good if someone could proof-read it, in case I missed something. Thanks --Teresa.Fr 20:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, I think that comment should go on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Peru. --– Emperor Walter Humala · ^{( shout! · sign? )} 22:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Establishment info on the Infobox

Hi, as I have cheked on the Iran article, its infobox mentions establishment date
Proto-Elamite Period 8000 BC
Middle-Elamite Period 3400 BC - 550 BC
Median Dynastic Empire (Creation of the First Iranian Dynastic Empire) 728 BC - 550 BC
Achaemenid Dynastic Empire (Unification) 550 BC - 330 BC
Parthian (Arsacid) Dynastic Empire (First Reunification) 248 BC - 224 AD
Sassanid Dynastic Empire 224 AD - 651 AD
Safavid Dynasty (Second Reunification) May 1502
First Constitution 1906
Islamic Revolution 1979
Maybe we should add Inca Empire and viceroyalty establishment date.. --– Emperor Walter Humala · ^{( shout! · sign? )} 22:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I would agree with a viceroyalty date but an Incan Empire establishment date is kind of pushing it. Iran has the distinction of being de jure ruled by itself for most of its history just as China does. The rulers of Persia in 8000 BC have a lineage of rulers mostly of the same ethnicity and ancestry as those of today's Iran. Current day Peru's citizens are not completely of the same ethnicity and ancestry as the Incan emperors. The infusion of Spanish ancestry has made the Incans and Peruvians separate non-related nations. This is similar to how Spain is a nation not related to the Caliphate of Cordoba due to the cultural and ethnic differences eventhough they ruled the same land. Gdo01 22:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nuevo sol

Just something quick: I'm fixing links that go to redirects to Peruvian nuevo sol. In the "Dictatorial Military Governments" section, there is a link to "Sol (currency)". As this is a redirect, please change it to link straight to "Peruvian nuevo sol," preferably using this format: [[Peruvian nuevo sol|sol]]. This avoids changing the appearance of the link. I would make this change myself (as I am a registered user), but unfortunately I have an apparently unfixable login problem. Please make this change for me. --Cromwellt|talk 17:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

Why is this page protected? --72.75.108.135 16:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] too much

i think there is too much information about the indian part of lima but they put nothing about the technologycal achievements in peru ...that makes people think aof peru as a bunch of indians... i am peruvian and as i was talkin to an american guy he asked me if i new what a mp3 was O_o

haha, that's a shame. However, are you talking about this article or Lima? --Emperor Walter Humala · ^{( talk? · help! )} 05:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

will you get angry if I edit this article? Why is it that I can't edit this article?--Andersmusician 03:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The article is semi-protected from newly registered members and anons for the moment due to vandalism.--Jersey Devil 03:53, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

In my Opinion, this article is not showing what is going on in Peru at this moment... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.40.71.187 (talk) 02:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photo Gallery

I have created a photo gallery with some of the pictures I have uploaded. Perhaps we should move some of the other photos on the page (the ones not explicitly related to the article sections) into the photo gallery. That should help with length and size but also presentation. The page on our neighbor to the north's (Colombia) capital (Bogota) has such a gallery and it looks good. Rafajs77 18:11, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The gallery seems a nice idea, however all pics in the article sections are clearly related to the text so I don't think they should be moved. Furthermore, all pics in the gallery are about Lima, maybe we should move it to the Lima article, don't you think? Greetings, --Victor12 18:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Por que

Por que ponen esa foto si asi no son los peruanos ah?

[edit] Population Miscalculation

When reading through this article, specifically the "Demographics" section, I noticed a small inconsistency. It states that "...around 73% of the total population lived in urban areas, compared to just 28% in rural ones." 73 and 28 add up to 101%. I have researched this fact personally, and have found that most web-related information sources say "...around 70%" and have not been able to come up with a concrete fact. If the paragraph is estimating only, it should be made clearer, if it is not, there is an error or typo. I am uncertain of how to edit this page to make it correct, so, for now, I will leave it as is.

I am a new user and do not fully understand the discussion and editing process, so I appologize if this comes in the wrong place.

--Carlson Ian 16:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the warning. I've posted more accurate numbers, based on the same source. They now add up to 100%. Greetings, --Victor12 17:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quechua lang officiality

I've added it in the infobox, see this ource for verif. Decreto Ley 21156 (1975) --Andersmusician $ 00:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted your change because the Constitution trumps any DL given thirty years ago by a dictatorship. What the constitution says is Quechua, Aymara and other indigenous languages are co-official in the areas where they are predominant. Please don't change it back --Victor12 00:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

hmmm sorry, didn't notice that --Andersmusician $ 00:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flag

I wonder which of these should be used on the infobox --Andersmusician $ 05:37, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

After reading Flag of Peru it seems to me we should use the first one as that is the National Flag (Bandera nacional) as opposed to National Ensign (Pabellón nacional) which is the one with the coat of arms in it. Besides there is no need to show the coat of arms twice, side by side. I've changed the pic accordingly. What does everybody else think? --Victor12 17:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

It's been changed to state flag again. The national flag seemed fine to me, but not to everyone it seems. Can we put the national flag here and wait for more reactions before changing it again? Eric Bronder 04:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Oops, I've reverted before checking this out. I'm sorry, I won't change the flag anymore until there's a clear consensus. --Victor12 11:46, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry Victor12, my phrasing was a bit off. I noticed someone else changed it from national to state flag and i remembered this discussion, so i made the note above. I think we should change it to the national flag as has been the flag shown for the last two months. But to prevent someone from changing it to the state flag again i added the note to end the discussion and create "jurisprudence". ErickAgain 16:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

The National flag is by far the most probable one to be encountered by people, be it on television, sporting events etc. The state flag is to be used by the government only. We also do not use the military flag. If we reach consensus we can change it back to the one we decide upon now, by refering to this discussion. ErickAgain 16:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree we need jurisprudence. I'd also go for the national flag. As a further argument, the Constitution says "The national symbols are the flag with three vertical bands, in red, white and red, and the coat of arms and the national anthem established by law". --Victor12 16:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

As Erick said, the non-insign flag is more recognized everywhere, so I support the "normal" flag on infobox from this point of view. --Andersmusician VOTE 05:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

This touches on the concern I raised here. The national flag is used for sports teams, yes or no? eae 02:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

89% of the population over 12 years old declared themselves as Catholics, 6.7% as Evangelicals, 2.6% as of other denominations, 1.4% as non-religious and 0.2% did not specify any affiliation.[54

Neither 89% of Peru or any country in the world except Vatican City is 89% Roman Catholic

There is a difference between Roman Catholic and Catholic. Anglicans and Orthodox are also Catholics.

The two most significant social trends in Latin America for more than 50 years are: urbanization and Protestantization. To ignore this or pretend it does not exist compromises the integrity of this entire entry.

This article reflects either deep seated religious prejudice, or a profound ignorance of the demographics of Peru.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smi2le (talk • contribs) 19:22, May 16, 2007 (UTC).

The religion of Peru is quite obviously Catholic, whatever the stats may say.

The information about Religion in Peru currently in the article is sourced from the 1993 National Census and it is the official data regarding that matter. Please don't claim otherwise unless you have a better source to back up your claims. Greetings, --Victor12 01:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Would like to add subwiki link

I've created a "subwiki" about peru peru.subwiki.com which has information for tourists and in particular for foreigners considering living in Peru -- including internet access information, renting an apartment, etc. If the site generates some interest I will dedicate more time to adding good content. Also its an open wiki and anyone who registers can add content. Gracias 200.121.18.89 18:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)Tito

[edit] GA on hold

I have reviewed this article according to the GA criteria and have put the article on hold until the following issues are addressed.

1. Expand the lead a little more to summarize the other sections in the article that are not currently mentioned in the lead. One more paragraph should be sufficient.Y
2. Check and make sure that the information in the infobox is all up to date.Y
3. "Alberto Fujimori was elected president in 1990, two years later he dissolved Parliament and convened a Democratic Constitutional Congress, which drafted a new Constitution." Change the comma after 1990 to a semicolon.Y
4. In the "Government" section, adjust the size of the right picture to help remove the large gap between this section and "Administrative divisions". You may have to adjust the size of the other image also.Y Changed pic --Victor12 22:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
5. "The territory of Peru covers 1,285,220 km² (496,193 mi²), which makes it 20th-largest country in the world," "...which makes it the 20th-largest..."Y
6. I think that it would be better to have the geography section as the first section in the article, above history. However, if you are following a specific format then don't worry about it.N See format at Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries#Sections --Victor12 22:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
7. In the "Economy" section, what is Peru's HDI score? The intro and this section both state that it is moderate, but it would probably be best to icnlude the actual number.Y
8. "In 2006, GDP grew 7.7%, and it is expected to grow 6.5% in 2007 and 6% for five years after 2008." "In 2006, the GDP..."Y
9. "In April 2006, Peru signed a trade agreement with the United States, the Peru Trade Promotion Agreement, becoming the first country in the Andean Community of Nations (Comunidad Andina de Naciones, CAN) to sign such an agreement." Rewrite to "In April 2006, Peru signed the Peru Trade Promotion Agreement with the United States, becoming the first country in the Andean Community of Nations (Comunidad Andina de Naciones, CAN) to sign such an agreement.Y
10. "Drawing upon them, the Incas maintained these crafts and made impressive achievements in architecture, for example, Machu Picchu." Reword the beginning of this sentence, as "Drawing upon them" isn't a very good start for the sentence.Y

This article is very well-written and I don't notice any major problems, which is good for an article of this size. Fix the above items within seven days and I will pass the article. If you have any questions or when you are done, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 18:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA passed

I have passed this article according to the GA criteria. Good job on addressing the above issues so quickly. For the intro, add some more variety to the opening words of each paragraph, currently "Peru is..." is used several times. Other than that, the article looks great. Keep improving the quality of the article, making sure that all new information is properly sourced. If you have the time, please consider reviewing just one or two articles at GAC to help with the backlog there. We are currently having a drive to do this, and would appreciate any new reviewers. Review times can be cut down when we have more people reviewing articles. Again, good work on the article and keep improving the quality of articles on Wikipedia! --Nehrams2020 17:58, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm applying --Andersmusician $ 02:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] overview section new paragraph

I wonder if somebody could check accuracy of the new 4th paragraph, it says there is a combination/mixture of diferent ethnic groups, although I think that would be applyed only to the coastal region. Also I wonder if Machu Pichu mention should remain there. thanks --Andersmusician $ 02:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

hmmm, whatever, Something new I realized is that we dont have an Etymology section --Andersmusician $ 00:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

As for the different ethnic groups I think you need to take a broader view. The Inca Empire was not a nation or a single ethnic group, but rather a wide collection of different ethnic groups each with different languages and dialects. The same goes for indigenous groups in the Amazon Basin. Thus, Pre Columbian Peru was already a multiethnic society. This mixture was enriched by new emigrations during colonial and republican times.

As for Machu Picchu, Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries#Lead_section recommends adding a few facts about the country, the things that it is known for (for example the mentioning of windmills in the Netherlands article). Machu Picchu is certainly the most recognizable feature from Peru in the world, so why not mention it in the lead? It might even entice a few readers to actually read the rest of the article. Greetings, --Victor12 02:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

didn't know about the wikiproject's recommendations, thanks.--Andersmusician $ 17:05, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Machu Picchu should be featured cause its one of the seven wonders of the world Avilezj (talk) 13:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GDP Figure and Source

The IMF is currently a contreversial organization so using it as a source is innappropriate for an encyclopedia.

(Intl. Monetary Fund)what do you mean with controversial? I think thats not true at all --Andersmusician $ 05:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name Etymology

Does anyone have information on the etymology of the name Peru? If so it would be a good addition. Israelite9191 03:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. --Victor12 04:19, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Someone deleted the etymology and inserted a paragraph deploring child labor in Peru. I restored the etymology.Pilch62 03:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inclusiveness

I see mainly a couple of users that lately are inputting an changing much of the material on this page. This could be interpreted in many ways, I am mentioning only three possibilities in here:

• 1) These couple of users are the only ones interested in editing this page. Is this good?
• 2) Some users are unable to make editions for some reason, Perhaps, because they are feeling intimidated by your possessiveness.
• 3) The article has become somehow the narrow view of a few users. Watching this page with patience, it has been noticed a climate of imposition in here. Perhaps, we should contemplate in how come we could "graduate" our motivation, in the sense we can let others breath and cooperate with us about this important subject:Peru.

Therefore, could you please let other people contribute as well, and write in away that creates a conversation that leads to a consensus? Remember WP:OWN, nobody owns this or any other article, in Wikipedia. I am looking for more people to cooperate so this article about Peru could be improved, so far has become a very obscure interpretation of what has been and is Peru. It is still very messy; so many pictures for a content that does not match the richness of Peru.

I wonder why this is so? Now, I am ventilating this in the talk page of Peru, as I will come back in later weeks, to check both, the inclusiveness, and more importantly, the quality and verifiability of the contents. If you were, in one point, accepted by consensus all the better, I would support the decisions, up to the extent that also match the information quality requirements; but even if I would not support any, in the first place, I will accept the mandates of the consensus (not of a cabal) of the many contributors, this means more than three.

Of course let me write to you, the page is the laughing stock of many readers, that for some reason or other adore seeing Peru misrepresented, hope this is not your intention at all. But in case, Why you are not in doubt? Why is with you that makes you feel so sure, so omnipotent? or Why you are not more careful about what you are stating? You always can check with others that do not share necessary your views. A self-analysis is not a bad thing to do, it helps. Now, and again be careful with the information that you are using for describing Peru, perhaps also your country, this is free, and to be free you need to know how to control your behavior, to the extent that when enacting it you don't take the freedom or dignity of anybody else's. Some people have already wrote me about this, I am just passing this to you so you become aware. Remember we are being observed and documented, this is here to stay and to be archived. Also, please reexamined your views or sentences about your beliefs, especially about Peru in your user pages. The first thing, that some people like to do, is to generalize all things, in this way: "Oh you see he or she is Peruvian for such s/he has identity problems, hence the hate they have among themselves, they are only three little and sad fighting cats who never could achieve any thing of substance in any place they go." We know that this is incorrect, but in here, how can we prove it?

Well, fellow Peruvians, I read you later, I wish you the best in your endeavors, in Wikipedia and elsewhere, continue working for Peru. Another way is creating the space to work together, to motivate people, to learn other points of view, whenever and wherever the case or place respectively. Remember, George Orwell made a tiny little mistake, in his novel "1984", it was not really the "big brother", it is the "big browser", who is constantly watching us, and recording us, to share and use all this, in the best way that it will suit its needs in the future. Therefore, "BIG BROWSER IS WATCHING YOU!" even if you refuse to believe it. John Manuel-"-Todos Llegan de Noche, todos se van de día" 17:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

hmm that message surely comes to me john, however, in my opinion Peru would be the most problematic topic all over this wiki, then it's too much what your are asking for. Peru has a wide variety of things (from good to bad), not all can be placed here for matters of space, then full content should be placed to the subpages(submainarticles), please don't take it too seriously here.--Andersmusician $ 16:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Official coat of arms

As far as I remember, the National Coat of Arms, in this page is the official Peruvian coat of arms. The coat of arms you show in the article, is use only in the government offices Mzdilgrs 18:30, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello, could you please be more specific about what images and pages are you referring to? --Victor12 18:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Look at the images found on the Peru article in commons:

Escudo de Armas del Perú]]

Escudo Nacional del Perú]]

Gran Sello del Estado]]

Seems to be same discussion as with the flag. We should use the flag without the COA and the COA without the wreath of laurels.--ErickAgain 18:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

You're right. The middle one is used as a stand-alone coat of arms, the one in the left for the flag and the one in the right for official documents. I agree we should use the flag without COA and the "Escudo Nacional del Perú" (the middle one). --Victor12 18:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll change it accordingly.--ErickAgain 19:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rational behind why the Blue Map needs to go

As a discussion has taking place and even repetitively it has been stated, not only by me, that the blue is not an appropriate color for a map because the labels are not distinguishable enough and seem to be arranged and convoluted in a very messy way, furthermore, the map cannot be re-sizable for other usages. What I have stated and more than that gave plenty of choices and time on the Wikiproject:Peru/Map force task initiative, that other maps could and should be used. Now, I will state clearly and sound, I will return after one month for clarifying this issue only about and for the blue map. This map unfortunately has to go because evenly if it were an improving over early ones, its labels are confusing, and evenly if it is clickcable, not all the people who has visited the page are aware of it and it is cumbersome to do so on different regions anyways. Of course, I will state this in here and in many places, but as today, I will respect the decisions of the entire community who are interested in cooperating for the better outlook of this page and any other page and content. Again, this a call for thinking neutrally in what is the best for our page, and not to think "my fried who has made all this time a lot of maps, made this blue map and that is why it should be posted in here". Which it seems the specific case with this map. Please, no sacred cows. Best regards. By the way, made me think about Bernini, who surrounded by sycophants was not alerted by his associates of a terrible mistake he was making in the alteration of San Peter's basilica, it cost him his reputation and almost his life. Read about it. (Well until that beautiful Saint Teresa sculpture). Therefore, Be nice, and continue enjoying the freedoms embedded in this Free Encyclopedia. Johhn Manuel-11:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

To put it simply, this is the best map we have. There are other examples of blue maps in Wikipedia, for instance, in the Mexico article. If you have a better map, please propose it, until then I think the map should stay as it is the best depiction of Peruvian administrative divisions on Wikipedia. --Victor12 12:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I put it even simpler for you but not only for your eyes this is the best map, it is much richer and better quality. Do not shrink it. Victor12, do you Remember your Map from Germany with beautiful colors? Well this has beautiful colors too. Oh, it is not from Holland was made by a Peruvian in this case, hope it is not a problem. Would you accept it? What other people think? If you want I code too. but just lets stick to how the Map looks. FYI two versions of Wikipedia has chosen this map.

John Manuel -15:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The borders depicted in this map are inaccurate. Compare to the more precise blue map. --Victor12 15:34, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Now, that is a preposterous position and statement, you wrong and you know it, there is not need for precision in here, the blue map is off is we demand that precision, look the CIA map of location seems more deform as well bu it is not. The shadows add the 3D effect. I doubt that you can see, or anybody, the difference or it needs to see it. How do you know this do you have a template? Please the depiction is better don't you see? The blue map is confusing. It seems we have reach another deadlock in here. But your are only one, lets wait for others to see and think with a fresh and neutral point of view. John Manuel-15:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Check for instance the Huanuco Region the map presented in this page is missing some parts which are present in the blue one, mainly the northern tip of the Leoncio Prado Province. There are several examples like this one. --Victor12 16:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Victor12, your are begging the question in here, i.e., How Precise we need the map to be? these are internal borders nobody is going to use this map for military or traveling purposes, what we need is to zoom out more and see at bird sight the big picture, which is a nice and colorful map of Peru with the necessary information for the reader to perceive the different regions of Peru, I cannot see in there "La rica Vicky" pero si el Chimpún Callao. For me is more than enough, it does the job assigned to it. One more effort with you, look you seem to be an expert, no all the readers are, some have five others 8 years old. Others have ever been to Peru at all, little they know about "Villa el Salvador and las cinco esquinas or el 5 1/2". Now think about that you are an engineer, and you want to build a bridge, well you did and sketched it, then they return and showed you this blueprint, and you say I cannot see the bolts in this view and the little nuts that help them to hold the pressure too. The draftsman will reply to you, yes because this is not the view in detail or in explosion, this is how you designed it and this blueprint gives you a enough information about the structure, balance and proportion that are very close but not identical to what the bridge is or will become to be. Victor12, the map and the blueprint will never be identical, we don't know which is the closer one, we are just speculating on this realm. Therefore lets use an areal photo, a satellite image ever changing instead them. This are only gross regional maps, almost synoptic views of the territories like diagrams and like that are fair enough. That is why mathematics and specially topology, help us to deal with significant quantities, approximations, infinitesimals, integrals and derivatives, and even likelihoods and subjective probabilites. There are boundaries as there are limits. In the fifties and in Lima we used to say: "Cows from Holland, Llamas from Peru, truth from Neither" or something like that Victor12. Now, hope you somehow see my efforts for "giving" you a type of wings so your thoughts and your imagination could 'flight' about this cordial topic. In any case, fraternal exchange. John Manuel -17:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course every map is a simplification of a complex reality but I think that at the scale we are working with we can have a more accurate map than the one you've proposed. The scale is big enough to show details like those in Huanuco that I have mentioned. Check the blue map, you'll find it is more accurate. Why should we replace it with one that is less precise? Just because of the colors? I'd rather have accuracy than colors --Victor12 17:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Let me quote you, "I like that idea. But we need a better base map to begin with. One with colors would be nice. --Victor12 00:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)" Remember, both, the blue and the map that I am proposing are not exact, I understand your loyalty, but sooner or later, Holland or Iceland will have a lot of maps, I promise, for now the problems are those horrible and confusing labels, just don't go away off the subject now. Remember Labels, blue map's labels, did you get it now? It is simple. don't you think John Manuel-00:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I propose to return to the old non-labeled-gray map meanwhile. But let me tell you that John's proposal isn't as good as the blue one, RGB disproportional and administrative borders badly arranged. --Andersmusician VOTE 03:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

POVs are welcomed, I still like the map that I propose for the lack of better map. What the other users think? -05:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About pictures

Hi, wouldn't it be proper to replace picture of "Escuela Cuzqueña" with the "Cabeza Clava", the second one seems of more quality than the other for an ongoing FAC. --Andersmusician VOTE 19:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I kind of like the "Escuela..." pic better but I'm not dead set on this. So, what does everybody else think? --Victor12 19:26, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Many more art at commons:Category:Art of Peru, IMO we should try to put art from many cultural origins --Andersmusician VOTE 19:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem, I think, is that we don't have that much space in this article for art as pics should be linked to the text. As art is dealt with in one paragraph, there's only space for one art pic. This should be the best pic on Peruvian art available in Wikipedia. Which one is it? That's up for discussion. All other pics can go on subpages, like Visual arts of Peru and such. --Victor12 20:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Victor, one high-quality picture (preferably a featured image) on the Peru article and other ones on subpages. I'd prefer a pre-Columbian image, because I think most people reading the peru article will more likely expect and recognise some sort of pre-columbian artefact and not the cusqueña painting. --ErickAgain 20:26, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Agree with Erick, just what I meant.--Andersmusician VOTE 05:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as we all agree, should we change Cuzqueña pic to the Chavin stonehead? Or do we have other (pre-Columbian) options? --Victor12 17:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Below the ones I found in Commons with higher quality definition --Andersmusician VOTE 23:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Moche-pottery-02.png	Image:Nazca-pottery-(01).png	Image:Huari_pottery_01.png	Image:Peruvian Bowl 01.jpg
Image:Peruvian_Artwork_Calabas.jpg	Image:Retablo6-Ayacucho.jpeg

[edit] QUAKE

Need a Current event Template HERE. A 7.7 Quake JUST hit the place, as of this time stamp displayed here. 65.173.104.223 23:57, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Source: ALL News Channels, incl. FOX News. 65.173.104.223 23:57, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

• What we need is a mention of the quake. I saw this message on another website I frequent: "Our thoughts and prayers are with the people of Peru". Naturally I came to this article to see what they were talking about... but there was no mention of the quake! I had to dig up the history to figure out that a big earthquake had hit the country... ugen64 14:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

There have been lots of quakes in Peruvian history, several much worse than this one and they are not mentioned in this article. Why should this one be mentioned? It already has its own article. Adding a mention here would mean incurring in WP:RECENTISM and WP:Undue weight. --Victor12 15:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meteorite Sickens Peru

Can THAT be added ? 205.240.146.93 09:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Not relevant IMHO. --Victor12 11:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Pretty much. Removed.--Jersey Devil 12:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

but it's true only indians around the meteorite, there's no pejorative intention here, but peru's social context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.40.188.176 (talk) 00:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Food

What about the wonderful Peruvian cuisine?? I can't believe it is not mentioned Rubyraquelita (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

It's mentioned in the culture section, with a link to its own article Peruvian cuisine and also via the link to/in Culture of Peru. --ErickAgain (talk) 17:41, 29 November 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Link

Victor12 I would like to submit the following article in the OTHER section. It's a travel piece but with a much broader scope and mandate. It takes issue with the guide books that counsel against renting a car in Peru. My position is that if millions of Peruvians successfully negotiate their passage from point A to point B everyday, why can't the tourist be among those millions. My article dispells the myths and fears re driving in Peru. The article also has much to offer re tourism. Here's the link: http://www.artsandopinion.com/2006_v5_n2/lewis-21.htm Thanking you in advance for the consideration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Artsandopinion (talk • contribs) 02:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

You do realize Wikipedia is not a travel guide, right? You should try Wikitravel instead. --Victor12 (talk) 17:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish is not the sole official language

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570790_3/Peru_(country).html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.99.176.206 (talk) 18:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

who cares, no one speaks quechua. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.112.17 (talk) 14:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The current constitution, drafted in 1993, says the following about the official language(s):

Artículo 48°. Son idiomas oficiales el castellano y, en las zonas donde predominen, también lo son el quechua, el aimara y las demás lenguas aborígenes, según la ley.

Which means:

Article 48°. The official languages are Spanish and, in the areas where they are predominant, also Quechua, Aymara and the other aboriginal languages, according to law.

That's exactly what is explained in the infobox and I think this is a more accurate description than the one given by Encarta. --Victor12 (talk) 15:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

If what you say is right, then Peru would have more than 60 official languages. Avilezj (talk) 13:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peru v. Perú

I do not know if this has bene previously dicussed, but isn't it just Perú with an accent, even in English? --Charleenmerced ^Talk 14:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

In English the name is written Peru without a diacritic just like México is written Mexico and Panamá spelled Panama. --Victor12 (talk) 15:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protect?

This page has been targeted a few times today by anons. Will it be necessary to semi-protect it? Sandy of the CSARs (talk) 00:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Economic data and possible vandalism

Since the article was put on the main page, the economic data has changed. Is this due to sneaky vandalism? --Descendall (talk) 22:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I checked the infobox data against the IMF report; only one minor change was needed. I also reverted the edits to the Economy section which indulged in WP:Recentism and POV while lacking references. --Victor12 (talk) 22:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trial of Fujimori

This page currently reads:

Under the presidency of Alberto Fujimori (1990–2000), the country started to recover; however, accusations of authoritarianism, corruption, and human rights violations forced his resignation after the controversial 2000 elections. Since the end of the Fujimori regime, Peru has tried to fight corruption while sustaining economic growth; the current president is Alan García.

I wonder if the page should briefly mention that Fujimori is currently on trial. On one hand, I want to avoid "presentism," but on the other hand this is pretty noteable. I can't think of any other countries in the world that are currently trying one of their democratically-elected presidents for murder. Peru is in a really unusual (perhaps even unique) position with that trial. --Descendall (talk) 23:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• The fact that Fujimori is on trial is notable enough IMO, a similar ocurrence happened with a Romanian president in the 80's (he was sentenced to death after his trial)--Andersmusician VOTE 14:57, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

It should be mentioned but only very briefly like a sentence on it. My two cents.--Jersey Devil (talk) 16:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

IMHO mentioning the trial would incur in WP:RECENTISM. There's already a fair bit about Fujimori and his government in the History section, adding more would make this section unbalanced. I agree that the trial is important but not enough to be mentioned in a six paragraph abstract of 5,000 years of history. --Victor12 (talk) 18:44, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Victor12. --ErickAgain (talk) 21:44, 1 March 2008 (UTC).

I have to agree with Victor12, trial shouldn't be included in a history section resuming more than a century unless that topic entirely has to do or modifies previous history. Also I didn't didn't notice about the recentism policy, relevant one. user:andersmusician --200.106.111.246 (talk) 14:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I entirely disagree. The history section and the article in general, per succeeding comment, is entirely deficient.Tom Cod (talk) 05:39, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Very Short

the article is extremely short —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.240.90.245 (talk) 20:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Graphic

Please!!!!!!!!! Whoever cans, please put this image in History section:

Any sources for that timeline? Anyway, there doesn't seem to be enough space to place it here. --Victor12 (talk) 02:25, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Ask that on History of Peru, cegato —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.116.28 (talk) 03:35, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Agregar link a "EXTERNAL LINKS" del Perú y otros...

Amigos, creo conveniente agregar el link www.peru.info, la página de PromPerú destinada a promover el turismo receptivo e interno en nuestro país, a los links externos de la página del Perú, de nuestras regiones y de las principales ciudades del Perú (Lima, Cusco, Iquitos, Arequipa, Ica, Chiclayo...) en la versión inglesa y de otros idiomas.

Asimismo, es bueno promocionar la web www.perubirdingroutes.com, también de PromPerú, que promociona el aviturismo o birdwatching en nuestro país. Ojo que somos el país con mayor número de especies de aves del mundo.

Asimismo, he creado el artículo Amazonía Peruana en Wiki en castellano y Peruvian Amazon (Inglés) con información sobre nuestra parte de Amazonía. EdwinJs (talk) 14:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

As this is the English Wikipedia, it is not appropriate to write in Spanish, please use English in your posts. As for the links, Wikipedia is not a travel guide; they would be better placed in a website such as Wikitravel. --Victor12 (talk) 14:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Poverty rate's changed and so economy

Poverty in Peru during 2007 decreased by 5.2 percent compared to 2006, from 44.5 to 39.3 percent, stated the head of the National Institute of Statistics and Informatics (INEI), you can visit the web page or even the Peruvian government portal, and check it out.

This article needs to be updated. I tried to edit some REAL facts about my country. But it seems, it's "protected". Please can anyone UPDATE the information about Peru? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giover187 (talk • contribs) 15:10, May 29, 2008

It states on the main page:'Chinese arrived in the 1850s as a replacement for slave workers and have since become a major influence in Peruvian society.[70]' Can you be more specific of what 'major influence' you have in mind? Is it what they do? Their numbers? Do they run chinese gangs and spread corruption? Are they mostly communists? Can someone give the number how many chinese live in Peru? Do they assimiliate well or just like in the other countries they stay in their chinatowns and do not integrate with the local population??? Thanks Berry —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.111.222.143 (talk) 03:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2007 CENSUS RESULTS ARE ALREADY IN THE WEBPAGE OF INEI

PLEASE, UPDATE THE INFO, THE LINK IS: http://censos.inei.gob.pe/censos2007/documentos/Resultado_CPV2007.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.43.127.174 (talk) 02:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)