Talk:Mafia/Archive
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i think that this articile is one of the worst of the whole Wikipedia! this is noth an articol about Mafia, but is a collection of stereotypes and mithologies about Mafia, that are totally invented, unreal and completed not accepted from the historians. Mafia wasn't a gang coming form XV century, but was a gang comin' out in the XIX century. The Organized Crime didn't exists before, and just to the 70's no one talk about it except in Usa. not sure in Sicily! and at the end there is a list of movies, where for a large part the movie are about Jew Mafia! terrifiant and really bad article. and more, Cosa Nostra is a word comin' from Usa! not from Italy, where no one heard it just to the 70's. Cosa Nostra is the name of American Mafia! samoano
The recent change claiming that the Mafia is "a secret society that evolved from Italian Organized Crime in the early 15th century on Sicily to overthrow spanish rule," is again an example that this article is full of pseudo science. All serious historians have already dismissed the myth that the Mafia evolved in the early 15th century to overthrow Spanish rule, but it keeps coming back. Moreover, the Mafia did not evolve from "Italian Organized Crime" – it evolved from social-economical and political circumstances in the 19th century in Sicily. "Organized Crime" did not exist at this time period. The concept of “Organized Crime” only developed in the 20th century in the United States in a modern industrial society, while the Mafia evolved in a archaic semi-feudal society. Mafia Expert 12:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
There are so many errors and misconceptions on this page that I dont have time to fix up myself. First off, the extinct thuggee (wiped out by the british in the 19th century) was a cult not a mafia, no racketeering related activities were ever conducted by the cult. Additionally, the italian mafia is no longer, and has not been for quite some time, the most powerful criminal organization in the United States. A NY Times article from earlier this spring chronicles the decline of the italian mafia to criminal organizations from eastern europe, principally albania and russia. There are many more issues, perhaps someone can clean this article up. Young Skillz
I agree. This page sometimes is more about Mafia myths than reality. Unfortunately, looking at the history, valuable attempts to give a more accurate account of the Mafia are constantly deleted. Mafia Expert 21:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Everytime I write about the etymology of the word mafia, somebody deletes it. Why is this not relevant in the context? (My source is Cosa Nostra by John Dickie)
I read a bit of that book. I'll have to reread it this summer.MafiaCapo 01:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Because you are placing the discussion of etymology at the top of the article, where it does not belong.69.63.62.226 00:31, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Arguably, etymology explains everything, and therefore does deserve to be the capo - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mafia#Etymology_of_the_term below. We need to get it right, tho. Etaonsh 15:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
"Recently the former prime minister Giulio Andreotti (Democrazia Cristiana) has been judicially accused of relationships with Mafia, but was finally discharged."
1. When was "recently"?
2. What is meant by "discharged'?
S.
- I suppose it means acquitted. He was actually acquitted because of expiration of statutory terms, the court recognized he had a close relationship with the mafia that bordered with membership. Orzetto 19:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The main article should not be divided into two by the presence of two obscure stubs, so I've moved the island of Mafia stub to the top.. Also, I don't think there is a need at all for a stub on an obscure PC game that was never very popular... we aren't in the practice of making stubs for every mediocre work of art that comes out. kwertii
We aren't in the practice of determining popularity. (anon)
No, but it's perfectly acceptable to comment on it or to judge whether something is popular enough to merit inclusion in an encyclopedia -- Derek Ross
- Does anyone have anything to say about the PC game called "Mafia" (beyond the fact that it existed)? Has anyone here ever played that game? Anyone even heard of it? There are hundreds of thousands of obscure video games, and the vast majority of them are not significant enough to warrant inclusion in an encyclopedia. It just clutters up the page. kwertii
- I agree -- Derek Ross 00:01 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)
Independent Sicily
What was Cosa Nostra's role in Salvatore Giuliano's attempts for an independent Sicily? -- Error 00:34, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- It resulted in Sicily having a special charter that grants some independence from the mainland. Among other things, national laws have to be confirmed by the local parliament to be valid in Sicily, and the regional administration is the only one in Italy with a "parliament", all others have just a council. The administration is basically insanely corrupt, inefficient and any stereotype you can throw at it, they are worse than that. The administration (and all the money and jobs it handles) is a great power tool. The typical example is paying expenses to parliamentarians to attend a conference on reproduction of coleoptera in Maldives (2 hours of presentation, and one week of transfer of course!), I remember this specific example from a few years ago. Orzetto 19:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Why was this moved from Mafia to Italian Mafia? It was just fine at Mafia... Kwertii 22:27, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Since there's been no explanation as to why it was moved, and I see no real disambiguative advantage to having "Italian Mafia" as opposed to just "Mafia", I'm moving it back. "Italian Mafia" is redundant". Kwertii 07:27, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Smoewhere, I had read something about "Muerta alla Francia Italia appelle" (sanity?) - "Death to the French is Italy's call" (or something). Is this something which has been fabricated to fit the name?
Are there not any sources for mafia standing for Morte Alla Francia Italia Anelia (Italian for 'Death To the French Is Italy’s Cry')? I never heared of this. Further, what has Sicilian organised crime to do with France? Besides, Sicily is very autonomous region, it sees itself not as a part of Italy.
chicago photos
there is a- Brianboru
i think someone needs to re update this page
References to Turks/Arabs
An anon user has changed the article. It now says that the Arabs/Turks have occupied Sicily, not the Sspaniards. Please fact check this and revert if you deem it necessary. I don't feel up to that. Lady Tenar 20:34, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Everyone's occupied Sicily at some point. Sea Peoples, Phoenicians, Greeks, Carthaginians (actually Phoenician themselves), Romans, Visigoths, Arabs (Moors, mostly), Turks, Norman French (actually Vikings), French, and most recently the British, French and Americans again. However, other than the Visigoths I don't know remember any Spaniards. —ExplorerCDT 21:00, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- The Spanish occupied Sicily in the 1500's under Philip II until the War of Spanish Succession in which it was transferred to Savoy. The Spanish later regained control of Sicily briefly during the War of Polish Succession in 1735. 209.213.71.78 18:06, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
If, as ExplorerCDT states above, the Allies have occupied Sicily (as opposed to liberating her) we need to know about it. It would, after all, explain why the Mafia retains credibility among its adherents. Etaonsh 09:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
2 New york police
[1] Funny statement:- Pasquale D'Amuro of the FBI's New York office said the pair "were not two good cops who went bad. It seems clear they were two bad guys who somehow became cops."
article contradicts itself
First, the article gives the origin of the Mafia as being a group in the Middle Ages formed for protection from Turks and Normans. Then, under "Origin and History", it says the Middle Ages origin is false. This is insane.
This anonymous comment seems to have resulted in the removal/alteration of the "Origin and History" referred to. Surely it would be truer to reflect the fact that original intentions become confused and overtaken by outright criminality? Etaonsh 08:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
As stated countless times in books written about the Sicilian Mafia since the Maxi trial of the 80's, there was never a 'good' mafia which became a 'bad' mafia - It originated in the MID-19TH CENTURY, not the 15th Century, as an illegal organization. I have edited this countless times, but the buffoon who initially wrote this article insists on deleting the facts and inserting his/her own rose-tinted view of the Mafia. The neutrality of this article, as well as it's factual accuracy, is extremely suspect to say the least.
Possible Copyright Violation or Vandalism ?
It seems the text following the See Also section is a free term paper copied directly from www.123student.com/5231.htm as well as on similar websites. I can't seem to find who added this however. 209.213.71.78 19:52, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
- I have removed this, but htere is useful information tht shoudl be verified and incorporated. Rich Farmbrough 08:15, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
- I certainly agree however as the text is copied word for word from a copyrighted source it is clearly a case of copyright violation. If the author or website were to grant permission to add this to the article then by all means it would make a welcome addition. 209.213.71.78 17:55, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
Godfather
I removed the "Godfather" description as is same position as a "Don" as a Capo Crimani. 152.163.100.138 04:39, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
non-professional air
This first-person section, though informative, is not in a style suitable for an encyclopedia:
"I, myself, was a son of one of the most infamous mafiosos in the United States. During these family wars, my mother would take my little brother and I into a secret room in our basement, and then join my father upstairs. It was a way of life for us and we had no idea that any other type of life even existed."
Request: please write articles about Mafia activity in each country listed
This would make for interesting reading and transform that section into something other than a rather tedious list of countries. Lupin 13:25, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Recent Revamp
Phew, well i've finished my overhaul of this article - I hope you find it informative. I have removed nothing big, except for the erroneous theory of the origin of the Mafia during Medieval times. The Mafia structure and modus operandi as they are today were developed during the 19th century, not the 15th century. For more on this see my reference (no one has referenced anything on this page!) to John Dickie's books at the end of the article. A resistance organisation may well have existed 500 years ago, but it would be unrecognisable and historically unlinkable to the Mafia we see today.
Other than that major change I have just cleaned things up a bit. I moved Mafia in America to just under Mafia in Italy as that seemed like a more logical order. I also added a new section for 'Other Criminal Organisations in Italy' to reflect the fact that this article focuses on the Mafia - that is, the original Sicilian Mafia in Italy and the US. I also altered the etymology to reflect the Palermo dialect viewpoint, which is most important, a bit better,
I added some more details on famous Sicilian Mafiosi. The bit about Provenzano visiting a medical clinic in the south of France was in The London Times last year, although someone else with an online subscription to The Times can reference that for me :) I also added Brusca's real nickname - lo scannacristiani as Dickie outlines in his book, A History of the Sicilian Mafia, and added a redirect to the existing page on Brusca.
The current Italian Mafia section is still a little too American-mafia centric for my liking, and overstates Lucky Lucianos role somewhat, so I added some recent developments re Riina and Provenzano etc and will add some more Sicily-centric viewpoints later. It needs more on the Corleonesi as they have dominated the Sicilian Mafia since the end of World War 2. Specifically more on Luciano Leggio as the original Corleonesi Boss of Bosses, and how the Corleonesi rose to power again later with Toto Riina and Provenzano.
The US Mafia section needs more on the Moustache Petes and Maranzano etc. How Maranzano set out to overthrow the old guard moustache petes, to unify the leadership from Joe "The Boss" Masseria during the 1920s. Maranzano was then overthrown by his lieutenant Lucky Luciano who established the Five Families and the Commission etc etc and did away with the title capo di tutti capi in America (in theory). Someone else can do this though as the information is very much part of pop culture and a bit boring for me.
More needs to be said about the hero Falcone in the Law Enforcement Section.
As I mentioned in the references John Dickie's book is a veritable goldmine of information on the subject of the Sicilian Mafia, as well as its links to the US Mafia based around New York.
Thanks!
82.35.34.24 02:34, 7 August 2005 (UTC) 82.35.34.24
Freemans Mafia?
Where is the source for this? The only place I could find with a Google search was this page.
The source for this is the contraction of antique catalan term "ma filla" (my daughter). Alledgely coined after many kidnappings were performed by Almogavars, the catalan pirate raiders who terrorised southern Italy population in early XIV century. Sicilian land owners employed the term to define an feodal secret organization they stablished to prevent and punish their foes exactions. They surely have had enough of paying ransoms and bear humilliations trying to rescue their kidnapped relatives, i.e. "ma filla"...
The Freemans Mafia
Godfather Baldrick here! We are a non profit, non violence, yada yada, group (very small) that supports human rights. email me at thominalaska @ gmail. com (no spaces, hate spam). I wanted to put us on Wikipedia, because I plan to carry this pretty far, but I couldn't find a place to add new articles (which I can understand why), so I settled for putting us under Mafia.
Hey! I'm Ol' Jack from the Freemans Mafia! I noticed that Baldrick forgot to put a link. Here you go! http://arenatherpg.proboards61.com/index.cgi
The Sicilian Mafia and the MVSN
I removed the portion of the article that had "reader's note" in it, as well as the bit that had "(what the crackers?)". What it was talking about was the crackdown on the Mafia by Cesare Mori during the Fascist regime in Italy, and I've added a brief mention of that. There are a couple of sources on the Web (that look like they've just slurped a previous Wikipedia article or something similar) that say something like:
It has been said that in reality, the most important leaders of the Sicilian Mafia were enrolled in the MVSN, the fascist Militia, and only low-level suspects were charged in Mori's campaign, mainly for propaganda purposes. However, others claim that this version is nothing but US propaganda trying to relativize the cooperation of the United States government and the Mafia during World War II.
(source: http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Mafia)
Given the circumstances, I didn't feel comfortable in describing a possible connection between the Mafia and the MVSN ("Milizia Volontaria per la Sicurezza Nazionale") as I know nothing about it. So it would be good if someone with a bit more knowledge (or time for research) on the subject could add something about that. --Popefelix 23:23, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Lucky Macronese
Who is that? The Boss of Bosses position didn't exist anymore I thought.~~67.184.87.86
Good point, I did a Google search on "Lucky Macronese" and couldn't find any references that didn't originate with Wikipedia. Either the information is bogus or the guy is so powerful that everyone is afraid to even mention his name!
Original Research
Aside from the WWII information and criminal admissions, the bulk of this article appears to be based on original research, as well as Hollywood and TV portrayals.
It resembles elaborate conspiracy theory mythology.
Please find better sources for the information in this article, and explicitly cite them. Thank you.
Surely an unsigned Wikipedia edit like yours above is the definitive worst, most opinionated source possible. This is why I wonder why Wiki article edits are unsigned, and Talk Page ones are - making the latter better sourced. Etaonsh 14:11, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the comment above about this article (as do many of the "mafia" articles) resembling a Hollywood portrayal. Even if were based on real life with someone having experience and exposure to New York City would be a substantial help. Are most of these authors from Kansas? Stevenmitchell 17:48, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- What a charmingly uninformed comment, considering Kansas City, Missouri has a long and colorful history of mob influence [2], [3], [4], List_of_famous_mafiosi_by_city#Kansas_City, etc. Which is not to say that the article isn't awful in its own right... -- nae'blis (talk) 15:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Removed text
I removed this text, as it didn't seem to fit the flow of the article, was inserted in an inappropriate place, has no citations, and is probably vandalism:
One of the most prominent and notorious "mobsters" in modern day America, is an aspiring young billabuster named Joseph Andreotti, he has many chargers pressed against him, currently pending in court, ranging from minor theft to grand theft auto all the way to first degree murder. One of his more interesting accomplishments, is when he succesfully harnessed the power of the dormit town of Olympia, he first began his take over when he was a mere 12 years of age when he ran for mayor. From there he went straigh to the top.
"Mafia" is the right spelling
Miscellaneous Requests
What is a "made man?" Is it synonymous with 'soldati'? Is this a term of art and, if so, could someone please incorporate its meaning into its first mention in the article? Thanks! Rorybowman 16:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Needs Update Regarding Aggressive Law Enforcement
This article needs further update regarding the status of the Mafia/La Cosa Nostra and the effects of aggressive FBI arrests and convictions of many high ranking mobsters. Several sites and television documentaries, including the National Geographic Channel's expose on the Mafia reported that the American Mafia has severely declined in power and all five families in disarray without an official boss. Not to mention the overwhelming competition from other ethnic criminal organizations that have supplanted the Mafia and their rackets, such as most recently in the news the Albanian Mafia that outmuscled one of the five family's rackets and territory.
Also, this article needs to clarify and distinguish Italians and Sicilians. On an A&E documentary profiling the rise and fall of John Gotti and basically the Gambino Mafia Family, one of the FBI agents reported that the majority of American Mafia/Cosa Nostra members are Sicilian such as Paul Castellano and Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, whereas John Gotti and the fictional "Anthony Soprano" are Napolitan. Sicilians and Italians may be cousins, but they are not the same.
Also needs updating regarding popular Sicilian movement (inc. demonstrations) against the mafia and the election of anti-mafia mayor in Palermo. Etaonsh 16:52, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Altho any such updating could be misleading taking into account [5]. Etaonsh 07:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Merge Cosa Nostra to Mafia
Cosa Nostra is no longer used only by mafiosi. It is now widely used by the media (certainly the Italian media) as a synonym. PizzaMargherita 07:18, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I believe the articles should be kept separate; La Cosa Nostra may be a term used for the Mafia, but it has its own history, quirks and usage information. DevanJedi 02:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Merge. Cosa Nostra is nothing but a synonym for Mafia. --Ezeu 02:35, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
- Merge, seconded. It can be related. TommyBoy76 20:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)TommyBoy76
I support the merge... the articles basically hold the same content. Grant 20:17, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I like the merge idea as well. The usage information on Cosa Nostra can have its own section on the new page.
Other countries
Is it OK to include references to other countries mafia like i n Australia[6] and England [7].
Looking forward to contributing on this article and in sports. Sportsfanz 15:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
England has a different history from Sicily. Obviously there are similarities, such as the legend of outlaws as the glamourised 'good guys' up against corrupt, vicious and alien francophone government in 'Robin Hood.' But the idea of a single, official (from the criminal perspective), on-going criminal organisation seems like a contradiction in terms, altho, again, it arguably happens, almost inevitably, in real terms on a regional/local basis. In the absence of an actual, acknowledged, nationwide equivalent of the Mafia, the term is used to mean either the Italianate organisation, or loosely to mean organised crime and/or corrupt, nepotistic government/mismanagement. This difference in usage makes it hard to understand the Italian mafia from an English-speaking perspective. I.e., why would anyone, however criminal, have any interest in semi-officially identifying themselves as such? Anglo-Saxon rationale is, relatedly, uncomfortable with the confusion between a criminal brotherhood and a national resistance movement - unless, of course, it's a foreign one we're talking about - in which case it serves to confirm xenophobic prejudices. Etaonsh 09:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Merge
Werewolf (game) has already been merged. I believe Are You a Werewolf? should be merged as well. Savidan 13:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
- I believe you're in the wrong article, but you've probably figured that out by now...~
WikiProject
Please see WikiProject Organized crime (proposed) for details on this possible collaborative effort. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MadMax (talk • contribs) 2005-11-18 14:01:18.
Jewish mafia
To put Jewish mafia at the head of the list when there's no cite nor Wikipedia article is surely a POV. I put it at the end of the list. Perhaps someone should delete it.
Arguably, national mafias should be listed in order of national wealth/influence. No-one expects to be asked to delete the Jewish mafia. Etaonsh 14:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
The termininlogy and anything pertaining to it!
Orzetto speaks the truth 82.35.34.24 03:11, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
The translation of La Costa Nostra' is currently at "our thing"; however, earlier the translation was "this thing of ours" which, while not a literal translation, seems to be more appropriate to me. I argue this because la=the and, in English, we would never say "the our thing", which is why I think it was originally written as "this thing of ours". Perhaps "the thing of ours" is a better translation. (anon)
- In Italian, you use the definate article when you are indicating possession. (Usually. there are a few special cases.) i.e. to say, "my house" you would say "la mia casa" (which literally means, "the my house"); "my car" is "la mia macchina" etc. La Cosa Nostra literally means "our thing" in Italian. "This thing of ours" would be something along the lines of "Questa Cosa di Nostra". kwertii
And what would "the thing of ours" be? (anon)
- "La Cosa di Nostra" -- Derek Ross
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- La cosa di noi, I guess.
- I think that Cosa Nostra is the name of the Sicilian organization and Mafia the American one. Is that the usage? -- Error 00:34, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
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- Mafiosi use "la cosa nostra" to mean "our stuff". It's just a handy way to indicate something that has no name inside the organization itself. The expression Cosa Nostra stuck in the media (lazy journalists) after being reported by Tommaso Buscetta and is now used to indicate the Italian mafia. Distinction between "this thing of ours" or "our thing" is just a triviality and it's not worth discussing. Anyway, it's literally "our thing", with the possessive "nostra" being postponed due to dialectal influence. Orzetto 19:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) (I'm Italian speaker)plus mafia was huge back in the day.
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- I think there is a big background mistake. Cosa Nostra (without articles) is one of the many italian criminal organizations referred as mafia. There are many others of these such as 'Ndrangheta or Camorra and the difference is which region they operate. Cosa Nostra operates in Sicily and is one of the biggest criminal organization in Europe, 'Ndrangheta has it's origins in Calabria (sorry, don't know the english translation... It's one of the italian's regions), Camorra started in Naples, Sacra Corona Unita born in Puglia. There is an interesting page here [8] but it's written only in italian.
- La cosa nostra seems very inappropriate because it is not the name of any italian mafia but is just an current italian expression that means Our thing. It is probably reported here because it is part of language that we're used to ascribe to mafiosi (mafia's peolple). However I think that this language is just a popular belief, originated by movies and television. However this is just a personal opinion. Dan.tux 11:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
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- Unless I am mistaken, Cosa Nostra is, at one and the same time, more familiar than La Cosa Nostra, yet the semi-official title of the Sicilian mafia. Therefore it isn't necessarily 'a mistake' for outsiders not to be over-familiar. ;) Etaonsh 22:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
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In the book The Valachi Papers, Joe Valachi himself makes it quite clear that the prevailing translation of La Cosa Nostra is this thing of ours and not our thing, since during the course of the book he used the former phrase about half a dozen times while he never used the latter even once. There is even a footnote at the bottom of one particular page in the book clearly identifying this thing of ours as the conventionally-used, if not necessarily esoterically correct, translation of the phrase.
Mafia prominence scarcely conveys skill at translation. 'The thing of ours,' surely? Etaonsh 22:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, fair enough, let's add it. Kwertii 21:58, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
And now the Americans own everything:}--69.236.93.172 04:29, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
- I went on a Familiarisation trip to Sicily in 2004. The travel agency had provided us with a guide for 3 days, Giorgio, who came from Palermo. During the long bustrips over the island to the various sights (Agrigento, Taormina) he told us in great detail, amongst other things, about the Mafia....
He told us the word isn't an acronym as stated elsewhere on this page, but originates from the arab word "Mafao". I'm not sure I remember correctly what the translation of it is but I seem to remember it means "Filth"....
The word "mafia" may originate from the Arab word "Maafiya" Which in literal translation would mean "pardon" however due to differences in usage the meaning of it would be "Exemption", the word "Maafiya" would be written "AL Maafiya" "the mafia" which would probably mean those who are exempted, or those who are pardoned. Now Being exempted from say taxes would be a plausible choice, however being pardoned for actions that could be seen as wrong and being above the law is also just as plausible.
According to a programme just shown on British TV the name 'mafia' comes from "ma fia", "my daughter". Is that incorrect? If not, it should be in the article. --bodnotbod 23:58, August 31, 2005 (UTC)
- It seems incorrect. Garzanti Linguistica (a free italian online dictionary) reports that it may come from the arabic mahjas which means boasting, bragging 84.222.21.65 22:30, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
The Mafia or Also The Maffia
Maffia may sound easier to pronounciate for a non-native italian speaker, but you would never hear an italian person pronounce it ['maffia] or even [ma'ffi:a]. The right pronounciation is ['mafia], and it is spelled Mafia.
Both Italian and English spelling are with an single F,but for example the Dutch translation writes double F due the pronouncuation. --E-Magination 08:30, 9 December 2005 (UTC)E-Magination
In swedish it's written Maffia too. Btw, Bodnotbod wrote that he saw a TV show which stated that the word Mafia came from "Ma fia", I've read this too in a book which also took up all these other alternatives. The "Ma fia" theory was told by a mobster in sicily who explained that, during the years of french oppression, a girl was raped by the french and allegedly the mother ran through the streets screaming Ma fia! Ma fia!. I'm afraid I don't remember what the mobster was called. This might just be a tale... but it also explains why they got the (false) acronym explaination. Avanti Italia!--84.217.144.214 01:11, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Question
This may sound a little silly. but do you have to be an Italian to join the Mafia now a days? I know the Japanese are strict or not. I have heard two different storys on it.. And the russians dont care.. But I dont know about Italians, I know they were strict, I want to know if they have changed over time. MegaloManiac 17:35, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
It's Okay. every one don't answer at once now. MegaloManiac 13:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- To be a made man, you have to be 100% Italian. They check the books of every ancestor to see if you are or not. You can be this or that to do some dirty work, I guess you could say. But to be apart of a crew you have to be pure Italiano....erm last time I checked. I read the book "Wiseguys" by Nicholas Pileggi (basis for the movie Goodfellas), and I remember it saying the same thing. Please correct me if I am wrong, please. I am curious myself. =0) TommyBoy76 19:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)TommyBoy76
Damn I will never be in the family. I guess being an Associate wouldn't hurt.MegaloManiac 18:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
At the end of "mafia structure" it says (e.g. il wringe). What is that referring to? 138.16.15.179 22:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
- il Wringe - An ex member or civillian who the mafia regard as a coward or in modern day terms a "wimp". Cheers. :-)TommyBoy76 00:37, 24 April 2006 (UTC)TommyBoy76
With the shape the Mafia seems to be in I'd dare say they would take anyone. MafiaCapo 01:58, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Not someone who refuses to consider joining unless they apologise? Etaonsh 06:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, you must have Italian ancestory via your mother. I would think it next to impossible to increase the ranks of any organization depending solely on ethnic purity... Cobweb.
Removal of material
I removed quite a bit of what appeared to me to be creeping vandalism. I didn't research it all in detail, so I may have removed some valid text. If so, I apologize. — MediaMangler 18:53, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
The Godfather: The Game
added a link to it's article - Star_9
The Mafia and Communism
I recently read an article here on the 'Talk' page in which an editor described removing content (quoted) alleging Allied-Mafia co-operation not only in the defeat of fascism, but in anti-communist activities. The removal he justified on grounds of lack of references, but how can one trust such an allegation in the context of pages which are being purged and altered with such ongoing alacrity, the Talk item itself having seemingly vanished? Also, the Mafia-communism connection is interesting and arguably not straightforward: but the removals have (prior to this, assuming this is still here!) closed the subject. Etaonsh 08:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Etymology of the term
I completely agree that an etymology is indispensable, so I added a new version. It also explains the use of the terms Mafia and Cosa Nostra. Mafia Expert 14:03, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Very well done. ;)
The 'ma filla!' explanation, on its own, seems implausible and glamourising. Dictionary.com provides a more straightforward etymology, indicating 'mafia' as a term similar in import to the modern, colloquial cockney 'front.' Other sources have said 'swagger'(colloquial). Etaonsh 10:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I now see an Arabic origin for the above etymology reported here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mafia#The_termininlogy_and_anything_pertaining_to_it.21, above - along with another, more plausible yet explanation via Arabic. But this surely belongs under the present, more specific header. Arabic 'exemption' sounds like some historical equivalent of diplomatic immunity, expanded to disguise insurrection, crime, revolution or whatever. Etaonsh 10:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Other explanations such as 'Muerta alla Francia Italia appelle' and 'Morte Alla Francia Italia Anelia' (assuming the Italian is good?) also seem good explanations. This doesn't necesarily imply a contradiction, but perhaps synchronicity. Etaonsh 21:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
The acronym explanation is not accurate. The criminal connotation to the world mafia lies in the play "Il Mafiusu di Vicaria" from 1867..
There is a complaint at the top of the talk page here to the effect that entries on 'etymology' are repeatedly removed. The editor (implausibly?) replies that the reason was that it doesn't deserve to be the capo of the article. But given the 'maafiya/exemption/diplomatic immunity' explanation above, the etymology could, as in many other instances, only more so, in fact be key to understanding the history and origins of the subject in question. Etaonsh 10:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Wtf: the followig both appear in the article: "This secret society was called Mafia after the Arabic word for refuge" "The word 'mafia' is the noun form of old Sicilian adjective "mafiusu" which has its roots in Arabic. Roughly translated it means "beautiful", but can also be translated as "cool"." just think that something should be done about that. -May 5.
'Wtf'? There is a view that etymology, contrary to popular indifference in the matter, is somehow key - explanatory. I can't help finding much food for thought, at the present time, in the knowledge that the name of the most subversive and enduring thorn in the flesh of the Western world 'has its roots in Arabic.' And so perhaps the correct etymology should be the capo of the article. Etaonsh 22:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Restored deleted content.
When checking through the history, I saw a section was blanked out, "The Mafia in Sicily". This was to be followed in the next edit (same user) with inserting random characters. The characters were then reverted but the section removed in the previous edit was never restored. I opened up an older version of the page and copied and pasted the section missing into the current article. PEACE, I'm OUTIE 5000 Wavy G 20:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
- Take it sleazy. CAT MAN! TommyBoy76 19:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)TommyBoy76
- Meeeeeeow. Prrrrrrrrr.
Titles of mafiosi
I've only just got round to reading this article, and I think it is a pretty good effort (considering...). The only doubt I wish to raise is in relation to the titles, capo di tutti i capi etc. Have these been sourced at all? The should be. I raise it because it is almost inconceivable that the Sicilian mafia, or cosa nostra would use Italian words to describe these various titles, they would use the Sicilian terms, since most, if not all communications were in Sicilian (even amongst the American mafia). So there is clearly a credibility gap in showing these words in Italian. Salutamu! ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 03:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
THE MAFIA IS STILL THE MOST POWERFUL ORGANIZED CRIME GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Yes, although LCA has been on a constant decline for some time, organized crime as a whole has been declining at an equal rate. So, the Mafia still remains on the top of what’s left of the American underworld. Yes, a few Soviet Mob organizations have rebelled against their control “tax” and have begun to operate independently. Of coarse there are very few on record in cities like New York. In THIS DECADE, The Rudaj organization of New York’s Albanian Mob was able to takeover LCA’S illegal gambling operations in the Asoria neighborhood of Queens, New York. But this was only one neighborhood, and this was only one Albanian organization. Altogether, the Rudaj Organization was supposed to amount to a “sixth family” of organized crime in N.Y.C, to which the other five are all LCA. So, even though they may be able to match each individule family they are not as powerful as the Bonanno family, the Colombo family, the Gambino family, the Genovese family, and the Lucchese family combined. And since we are measuring the power of each overall mob, and not that of each individual organization, than the Italians in New York are still on top. Alex Rudaj even stated that his primary ambition was to lead one of the first major New York criminal organizations that would be able to operate free of LCA influence. Sure, elsewhere in the country, the Italian Mob has been surpassed by other organizations, but because they have a piece of almost every major racket in New York and because of their major (if not distinctly dominant) role in Chicago’s organized crime community, the Ialians have remained the kings of the empire even though that empire is shrinking drastically. But, yes, the decline of the Italian mafia to criminal organizations from eastern europ has been enormous in other areas. But only if you jumbled all of them together into the “Soviet Mob”, would you be able to claim they are more powerful. If you separate each one by the nationally of the organization, like the Russian “Mafiya”, the Polish Mob and the Albanian Mob, as you should do, than the power is divided up as well and they are no longer superior to LCA. The Italian mob may not control the majority of the rackets in the U.S.A anymore, but they do control more than any other ethnic mob.
