User talk:Jonsafari

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Meelar (talk)

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Contents 1 ArabTex image 2 Category:Wikipedian linguists recategorization 3 Iranian Languages redirect to Languages of Iran 4 Bislama 5 Sorry! 6 Appreciation 7 BYU User Box 8 Persian grammar 9 Question 10 linguist assistance 11 Regarding pahlavi literature 12 Hey 13 Dance capitalization 14 Recent edit in Persian language 15 47 in Bislama 16 User:Jpbrenna/Ossetic grammar 17 Hindustani orthography 18 Proposed Urdu-Hindustani Romanization move 19 ipa-N 20 Hey 21 IPA2 22 Asoon.org 23 vandal? 24 good thinking 25 Ossetic & other Iranian languages: transliteration 26 Roman Urdu 27 Tajik lexicon etc. 28 Merry Christmas! 29 Persian language 30 Comments from bogdan 31 Time 32 Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Persian) 33 Kurów on Bislama Wikipedia 34 Persian tables 35 Nasta'liq 36 Vanuatu Scouting 37 Persian language 38 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-T50 39 WikiProject Films coordinator elections 40 Edits by User:DJ1AM 41 pɒrsi edits

[edit] ArabTex image

Greetings, I have just translated the article related to ArabTex to French and was wondering if the image you added to it can be reused freely. Please confirm on the discussion page of the French version (linked from English). Kind regards. Sphinx.

[edit] Category:Wikipedian linguists recategorization

The user categorisation scheme for linguistics has changed. Henceforth there are separate categories for Wikipedians who are professional linguists (Category:Wikipedians by profession→Wikipedian linguists) and Wikipedians who simply have an interest in linguistics (Category:Wikipedians by fields of interest→Wikipedians interested in linguistics). You are currently listed under the former category; please reassign yourself if necessary. —Psychonaut 17:09, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Iranian Languages redirect to Languages of Iran

I reverted the redirects from Iranian languages to Languages of Iran. Please don't confuse the two. Iranian languages is a linguistic branch of the Indo-European language family. Languages of Iran are the languages that are found in the country of Iran. It's like confusing Germanic languages with Languages of Germany. There are plenty of Germanic languages outside of Germany (eg. English, Icelandic, Swedish, ...), and there are non-Germanic languages in Germany (eg. Upper Sorbian - a Slavic language, or Romany) --jonsafari 03:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

As a member of WikiProject Languages, I should have known that. Thanks for the catch. --Wikiacc (talk) 20:03, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bislama

Thank you for letting me about the extraordinary change from bi to bis - I expect Babel pages to announce the languages I speak, not my sexual preferences! Ringbark 12:50, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Just to let you know, Jonsafari, there's a requested move to move that template back to where it was in the first place. See Template talk:User bi. —BorgHunter (talk) 04:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

So please zip along to Template_talk:User_bi and vote in support of the suggestion. Though in a troll-free world, none of this would be necessary. Ringbark 09:29, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry!

Hi there. I am really sorry! I did not want to revert your edits. It was just an unintentional mistake. Sorry again. -- Gorbeh 18:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appreciation

Hi there. I just want to thank you for your diligence and hard work in Iran-related article specially in WP:Commons. All the best. Amir85 11:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BYU User Box

You may be interested in updates to Template:User_BYU. I've added several new options to the talk page there. NThurston 22:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Persian grammar

Can you recommend a good, relatively inexpensive Persian reference grammar? The only grammar at my university library is Lambton, and hers is more of a workbook than reference book - and a somewhat outdated one at that. You seem to be relying on Mahootian, but he seems far too advanced for me and far too expensive (Amazon wants $300). Is Persian Grammar by John Mace any good, in your opinon? --Jpbrenna 05:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The Mace (2003) book is an excellent book in general, and a very excellent book for you specifically. And it's pretty cheap. The new Teach Yourself series book by Farzad (2004) is kinda ok, but too drill-oriented and scattered for my taste, like most TY books. For a more linguistic intro, check out the Persian (and maybe even the Iranian languages) chapter of Bernard Comrie's World's Major Languages (1987). The book as a whole is really fun, informative, and disgustingly cheap for the size and amount of content. --jonsafari 22:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Do you think English would benifit from a spelling reform?Cameron Nedland 21:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] linguist assistance

You are listed in the linguist by profession category. Would you please look at the discussion at Talk:Caron? It has been suggested that professional opinions are required to resolve the dispute there.

[edit] Regarding pahlavi literature

Hi, since you may wonder why i put the "see also" link back, I'll tell you. I appreciate why you did not think it was relevant enough, however since they are related, there is no reason why they should not be linked to eachother, i am sure you agree. Well it is not that important subject to discuss anyway. --Spahbod 01:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

No problems, I still think the article should be redirected. I've merged in all the unique content into Persian language, but I'm not comfortable with actually performing the redir until there are a reasonable number around who accept that its the right thing to do. By the way, I have most of "A short sketch of Tajik Grammar" and the intro and morphology sections of "Tajik Persian Reference Grammar", so if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Incidentally, did you see Tajik alphabet, I've been working on it for a while and would appreciate any comments you have :) And if you get really interested, I'm working on the Tajik Wikipedia too :) - FrancisTyers · 00:50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, if you could let me know at least the author/date/title I can see about getting it through inter-library loan before I leave university. If I can think of anything regarding those articles I will let you know :) Regards. PS. There still seems to be one person objecting to the merge on The English name of the Persian Language, even though all the information is merged into Persian language already. Can you double check to make sure I didn't miss anything, leave a note on the talk page and then I'll redirect it. There's already two linguists (well, one and a half — I didn't graduate yet) telling him it needs to go, I think three will probably be enough :) - FrancisTyers · 10:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, just to let you know, User:Future Perfect at Sunrise already merged the page, but there is a delightful little edit war going down. I've tried to get arguments to keep the page after the information has been merged, but am receiving no joy on the talk page. I'm fairly sure that this is the right thing to do, but there are two editors opposing the merge seemingly "just because". Regards, - FrancisTyers · 00:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I just checked out your site, and thought you might be interested in this I've been working on. If you know of any free software tokenizers for Persian I would be very interested to know about them :) I'll probably snarf your stemmer/morphological analyser at some point :) - FrancisTyers · 12:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Rastorgueva, I have the English translation, the title is "A short sketch of Tajik grammar", although it deals more with morphology. Perry's book, "Tajik Persian Reference Grammar" is comprehensive, but I was only able to borrow it on inter-library loan for a week, so I didn't get as much photocopying done from it as I would have liked. Thanks for your note :) - FrancisTyers · 12:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dance capitalization

I noticed that you listed yourself as a linguist. There is currently a dispute at the Lindy Hop article the Dance WikiProject about the capitalization of dances that could use the expertise of a linguist. If you think you might be able to help, we would certainly appreciate your comments. Thanks! --Cswrye 05:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edit in Persian language

The ISO may use "fa" for Persian, but this not mean that it is correct. ISO 639-1 uses "de" for "German language" (taken from the local name of the language, "Deutsch"), yet, the language is still called "German" in English and not "Deutsch". "Persian" is the correct name of the language in English and other European languages, while "Farsi" or "Parsi" is the correct local name. Alternative names of the language are "Ajami", "Dari", and "Tajiki", as well as "Hazaragi" and "Dehlawi". Tājik 08:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 47 in Bislama

Hi, I am collecting translations for the number 47 (forty-seven). So far I have 509 translations, which you can see here. Can you help and tell me how to say and write 47 in Bislama? I'd be most thankful; please reply on my talk page. Thank you! — N-true 14:31, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:Jpbrenna/Ossetic grammar

Just a stub now, but take a look. --Jpbrenna 04:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hindustani orthography

Thank you for placing the the above category on the Urdu alphabet page. I clicked on the cateogry and noticed that Hindustani orthography was the main page article. I also noticed that it was not yet created. Since you are very knowledgeable in this subject, would you mind creating this article and linking all the scripts you placed in the category: Hindustani orthography on the 'See Also" section of Hindustani orthography. This will be greatly appreciated. I have already placed a link to Hindustani orthography in Urdu_alphabet#See_Also. Thanks in advance for your help and Wikipedia contributions. Anupam 22:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Assalamualaikum. I think you did an excellent job of creating the article! I made a few minor additions and changes however. You might be interested in Hindustani (Hindi-Urdu) word etymology and Hindi-Urdu grammar. Hindi-Urdu grammar needs some Perso-Arabic script transliteration at towards the end of the page if you would be interested in doing that. Thanks again for creating the Hindustani orthography article. Once again, you did a great job. By the way, what scripts do you know? Khuda Hafiz. Anupam 04:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

		An Award
		For Hindustani orthography -- you wrote a great article in one day. Anupam 04:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Urdu-Hindustani Romanization move

Walaikumasalaam. Thanks for the post on my talk page. I thought the title was too lengthy as well. I sent Omer Farook two messages regarding the move but he did not reply to either of them. I thought I did it in a genial way too. If I don't get a reply in a day or two, I will go ahead and move the article. Do you think Urdu-Hindustani Romanization or Romanization of Urdu-Hindustani sounds better? I checked Category:Romanization and most of the articles seemed to follow the naming convention of the latter. Another possibility is naming the article after the inventors of the system: Uddin and Begum Urdu-Hindustani Romanization. Let me know which one you like or any new suggestions. I looked at the article and saw a reference but there is a need for format improvement. Thanks again for the support in this issue. I have a request for you regarding Hindi-Urdu grammar: Would it be possible for you to add IPA to the article where there is transliteration? There was a discussion on the article's talk page about this and the result was that IPA would be used on the article instead of transliteration. Could you please let me know if you can do this? Also, are you a native Persian speaker? I look forward to hearing from you soon. Khuda Hafiz. Jdas07 21:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. Out of the two we narrowed it down to, which one we move it to: Uddin and Begum Urdu-Hindustani Romanization or Urdu-Hindustani Romanization. Besides, the length of the title, I feel the former would be more appropriate since it describes a specific scheme. Please let me know what you think. As soon as I receive your reply, I will move the article to the name we select. Thanks. Anupam 18:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I renamed it Uddin and Begum Urdu-Hindustani Romanization as it is a more specific title. Thanks for all your support and encouragement! Anupam 20:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ipa-N

you may be interested in

Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_26#Category:Writing_systems_categories

Tobias Conradi (Talk) 02:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Thanks for the note, I looked up your reference. I know you didn't mean it that way, but you were right. I was taking quite an adversarial stance, I'll try and drop that :) - FrancisTyers · 12:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Heh, you're right about the difficulties of text format. What I was trying to say above is, yes I understand you weren't getting at me, but really I should have known better to start throwing around words like "authoritative" ;) PS. I saw you were compiling a Persian lexicon, are you intending to develop this further? - FrancisTyers · 11:11, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Aha, thats pretty cool (looking at the Finnish one). Well, I had the intention of building up morphological lexicons for Tajik and Persian (forgive the ambiguous terms) — actually I was hoping someone would help out. My idea was to use the dictionary format specified by the apertium project. This involves specifying paradigms to give inflection rules and then linking every lemma you put in with a paradigm. You can see some description of the format here. I would probably control adding removing symbols/paradigms/lemmas by means of a web form — later allowing for 'bulk import'. If you are interested in the project, or just have some ideas I would be interested in hearing them. - FrancisTyers · 09:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

(Needless to say this will be Free Software) - FrancisTyers · 09:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Another question, I saw you had Riazat (1997) "Computational Analysis of Persian Morphology", in your bibliography (.bib file). Do you have a copy of this. If so 1) Is it worth reading, 2) Would you be able to forward me a copy? — If the answers are 'yes' and 'no' respectively I'll see about getting a copy myself. - FrancisTyers · 12:28, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. Actually I just found "Persian Computational Morphology: A Unification-Based Approach" (Megerdoomian), which seems pretty comprehensive (56 pages). Hopefully it won't be necessary. (In case you are wondering — I'm looking into applying this to Tajik, which I guess will be almost identical except for the tricky segmentation problems that come from working with Perso-Arabic). - FrancisTyers · 18:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I came accross this, and thought you might be interested. There are many papers on lexicon extraction, but this one has a Free Software tool to go with it. Unfortunately it is largely written in Haskell (one of the languages I haven't learnt yet). I tried it with Tajik, and it seems to work alright -- the Unicode support seems ok. - Francis Tyers · 13:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm writing them at the moment.

paradigm noun1 =
        x
        {(x+"ҳо" & (x+"ҳои" | x+"и")) & (x+"ҳоро" | x+"ро" | x+"е")};

paradigm adj1 =
        x
        {x+"тар" & x+"тарин"};

That's how far I've got so far (not far as you can see -- I'm going to get more onto it this weekend when I'm back home and have access to my various resources)  :)

If you want to have a go with a corpus, I can recommend WWW Boot Cat (in case you haven't come accross it before -- its just a web version of the standard BootCat tools). - Francis Tyers · 07:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IPA2

Hi, Jonsafari (Jánsafari)! I just logged in and noticed that my article is tagged as AfD. I read the comments and I think it is tagged for personal reasons of the AfD initiator. Would you pls leave your comment? As the author, I do not see myself the right person to give comments. I really appreciate your opinion, regardless of what you decide. Thanx! -DrMoslehi 00:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC+3:30)

There are a few references which I know about and I have listed them on the articles page including the tutorials. So far, Persian Linguisics Association holds Persian classes in IPA2 script for those who do not want to get tackled by the very difficult Perso-Arabic script and they learn Persian very quickly and comprehensively. About other resources, I have not made a deep search with Google. The reasons why it is the most complete and accurate writing system for Persian is discussed on the project pages and through its tutorials. While other scripts are more useful for transcribing Persian, IPA2 is a complete alphabet with logical, regular rules based on linguistics. -DrMoslehi 21:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC+3:30)

Hi,

Hereby I just wanted to thank you for your support to keep the article IPA2 and hope I cn do my best to improve the quality of the article. -DrMoslehi 22 September 2006, 06:22 (UTC+3:30)

[edit] Asoon.org

Why are you deleting our links as spam?

[edit] vandal?

please move the Persian Danceg page back,

Are you referring to this move done by now-blocked user Unit? –jonsafari 01:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

yeah-Zadsat 04:58, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] good thinking

I was just contemplating creating a Category:Cuneiform too, well done. dab (ᛏ) 20:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ossetic & other Iranian languages: transliteration

I wonder if you can take a look at the final paragraph in this section of the Ossetic article and see if you can shed any light on it; I'm not sure I have the expertise and the materials at hand to cite. --Jpbrenna 22:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roman Urdu

Salaam jonsafari! I hope you are well. I was wondering if you can add the Devanagari to the Writing system section. Both Fayyaz Abbas and I are waiting for this task to be completed. Then we all can work on the system we will implement in the article (right now there are two- I noticed your comments regarding the Alternative for ں Retroflex Nasal on the talk page). I am wondering if you can graciously add the Devanagari to the Writing system table at your earliest convenience. I feel you have the knowledge to do so. I would really appreciate this. Please let me know if you would be willing to do this. Thanks! Khuda hafiz, Anupam^Talk 03:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tajik lexicon etc.

Hey man, I've started on a Tajik lexicon (at the moment entitled Tajik-English-Iranian-Russian — at the request of one of the contributors). There are currently around 800 entries, see here. You can grab the whole thing as a csv, see here. At the moment its kind of biased towards Tajik/English, and there is not much morphological information (as you can see it is kind of messed up -- a mangle of a Tajik morphological lexicon and a Tajik-English-Iranian-Russian bilingual lexicon. The major contributor wanted a Tajik-English-Iranian-Russian dictionary and I wanted a Tajik morphological lexicon -- so we have somewhat of a bastardisation of the two!). But we hope to rectify that within the coming days/weeks/months. When we get a few more words I'll probably make a better interface. Just a heads up :) - Francis Tyers · 10:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Definitely. Thats my whole reason behind starting it. When we have say 1,500 complete entries, I'm going to make a convertor for the (admittedly odd) setup I have at the moment to some standard dictionary format[s]. Starting with the Apertium one, others considered on request. Let me know if you have any further ideas/suggestions. - Francis Tyers · 08:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merry Christmas!

Your'e very welcome. Thanks also for the Christmas wishes. With regards, Anupam^Talk 06:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Persian language

Here are some immediate thoughts:

• References need to be cleaned up and standardised -- also needs more citations.
• The difference between Iranian Persian and Persian needs to be distinguished.
• Section on "Modern Persian influence on other languages" and "Vocabulary" can probably be merged.
• The Writing systems section should be cleaned up a bit so that it covers all the major writing systems used for Persian.
• Trivia section should be removed.
• Not sure how useful the comparison table is.
• The phonology section needs tightening to mention changes in vowels between the varieties.
• No mention of Early New Persian.

Basically I think the main problem with the article as it is written currently is the confusion between talking about Iranian Persian (e.g. the standardised variety spoken in Iran), and Persian which is a catch-all term for all of the standards spoken. If we are talking about the catch-all term, we should be careful not to assume that the Iranian variety is the "standard to which all other standards aspire".

Consider sections like:

Lexical confusion in the West between terms like Farsi, Dari and Tajiki often leads to an underestimation of the breadth of the influence of Persian in Southwest Asia, which is quite important and is a legacy of the millennia-long existence of a Persian cultural sphere, perhaps because this cultural sphere functioned differently than modern nationalism in the West. Other Iranian languages are closely related as well.

It might be a good idea to arrange the sections more in the order of Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages/Template?

All in all, I wouldn't support it for GA right now... mainly because of the lack of references. I'd be interested in working with you to get it up to GA quality though, although I anticipate political problems. Hope this review has been of help, - Francis Tyers · 23:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

And so it begins... :) - Francis Tyers · 22:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem, it will be interesting to see how far we can get... Just submitted my PhD application today, so wish me luck! :) - Francis Tyers · 23:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Btw, I moved some stuff around tonight, and added some more suggestions to the talk page. - Francis Tyers · 00:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from bogdan

• it would be useful to have differences in major phonetical changes between Pers. and other Indo-Iranian langugages.
• and usually, not individual words are borrowed, but batches of words. it could tell about the major batches of such words. e.g. religious vocabulary from arabic
• it would be good to have a table with where it's spoken. I mean, how many speakers in each country, etc.

(via the internet) - Francis Tyers · 11:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Time

I wish I had the time too, and more resources, I could do with something more than the short section by Windfuhr. By the way, do you know of any papers that discuss Persian from a pluricentric language viewpoint? - Francis Tyers · 16:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Persian)

Please also participate in the discussion in the talk page. Jahangard 19:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kurów on Bislama Wikipedia

Could you please write a stub http://bi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kur%C3%B3w - just a few sentences based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kur%C3%B3w ? Only 2-5 sentences enough. Please.

PS. Article about Kurów is already on 133 languages. Pietras1988 21:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Persian tables

No problem. Table OCD is one of my things. Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 19:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nasta'liq

Should it be Nasta'liq? I don't have any software for Persian Nasta'liq. I think Naskh is good enough (in daily applications, Perso-Arabic script is usually written in Naskh). Jahangard 13:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vanuatu Scouting

Can you help render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Bislama? Thanks! Chris 06:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Persian language

The Persian language article received heavy editing today by new/unregistered users, which I noticed at WikiRage.com. The article may benefit from a good review. According to Wikipedia Page History Statistics, you are one of the top contributors to that page. If you have the time, would you please read over the article and make any necessary changes. Thanks. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 08:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sony Cyber-shot DSC-T50

Another editor has added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Sony Cyber-shot DSC-T50, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 05:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Films coordinator elections

The WikiProject Films coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect five coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by March 28! Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 10:23, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by User:DJ1AM

Hi,

Could you please take a look at the edits by User:DJ1AM? Most of the pronunciations that he/she puts in the Persian-related articles are wrong. Alefbe (talk) 19:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] pɒrsi edits

Hello, Jonsafari. I understand your claim that Odden is not a fully reliable source for the subject of pɒrsi phonology. Unfortunately, that was the only source that I could remember that had a reference to the rule. I do not keep a record of all of the sources I reference, but I do remember the important information from these sources as I test them myself with native speakers of the language at question.

You must understand how frustrating it is when users lacking in knowledge of the subject attempt to revert edits, claiming that no reliable sources are used, and not providing their own sources for their edits. It is even more frustrating that many "reliable" sources were written by authors with little understanding of phonology, often using APA instead of IPA, making it even more difficult to find sources that are truly reliable. Understand that I am merely trying to provide Wikipedia with the most accurate information regarding the subjects that I know. -- DJ1AM (talk) 19:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)