User talk:Jasy jatere

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Welcome, Jasy jatere!

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[edit] Sinhala alphabet

Hi Jasy, I saw your note that you left me. Right now, I don't have much time to make a full-blown assessment (it's been a busy night outside of wikipedia), but as I skim across the article I can see that you've improved a lot. I especially like the images that you've added. I'd advise to expand the scope of the article's coverage—have a section on its history and development from its parent script, and another section about its modern usage and social/political standing (is it standard? Does a minority group use it? Is it associated with anything?). I will try to get around to editing the article tomorrow (probably around 18:00 UTC of today). Do you have any paper resources that can be used for inline referencing? Also tell me whether or not you have any long-term goals with the article, such as GA and FA. I'll be glad to help you there too. You're doing a great job as a new editor. Gotta go, cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:36, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

thanks for your feedback and comments. I will try to get the linguistic side in good shape; unfortunately I have not that much information on diachrony or on the social situation, but Krankman should add something to those sections. I do have the relevant paper resources and will add some references when I find the time. If the article progresses well, then it can become a GA or an FA, if not, then not. Just felt like a bit of Buddhism after hours ;-) . Anyway, I would really appreciate if you could add something from a scriptological(?) point of view, because I really have no background at all there. Jasy jatere 02:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jasy, I just saw your response on my talkpage. I'm sorry I took so long to get back to you. I've read over the article in its present state, and you have covered all of the necessary sections, they really just need to be revised, formatted, and expanded. I like the pictures that have been added, they do a good job of illustrating the page. I have a nice book resource about Writing systems which probably has some information on the Sinhala alphabet. I'll try to add some inline references. In terms of linguistic terminology and perspective, we need to make only very minimal changes. You've done a good job of defining the individual graphemes and their phonemic values. I'll add some IPA and English equivalents to the consonant and vowel tables. I would combine the two sets of consonants into one section and one table. Also, The images should probably be linked instead of displayed, as with International Phonetic Alphabet#Letters. This will help minimize the size of the tables. I'll work on it over the next few days...if you leave me a message (please do!) put it in a new section at the bottom of my talkpage—that way I won't miss it. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guaraní?

Ahecha kuri nde escritura guaraní articolope, ha aikua'ase reñe'ẽpa nde guaraníme? :) --Pyry 06:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

che ajapo va´ekue che-tesina (che-Resina?) guarani rupi. Ko´anga, ajapo ñe'ẽnguera Asia oñeñe'ẽva (Sinhala, Tamil, Malay), cheresarai cheavañe'ẽgui. Jasy jatere 07:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

aha, aetende. :) mba'epa oinsignifica nde escritura jasy jatere? ndaha'éipa guaraní? --Pyry 16:26, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tamil language

Hi,

You left an 'accuracy' tag on the Tamil language page and I had responded to your concerns in the talk:Tamil_language page. Would you please take a look and suggest what we could possibly do there? I'm not sure who put the original table there and I've provided the available info from two well-known authors (Andronov and Bh. Krishnamurti). I would appreciate it if you can offer any constructive input to correct the table. Thanks.--Aadal 02:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sinhala stops/affricates

Hey, are you sure about affricate [t͡ʃa]? Isn't it a stop [ca]? There is a difference also in IPA, no? I think Sinhala /ca/ is a stop, not affricate as in Europe. Krankman 22:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

If you recall the pronunciation of `that much' eccarayi, it sounds very affricaty to me ([et͡ʃ:ərai]). Or `China' cinaya [t͡ʃine:]. For comparison, the German word for `church' Kirche starts with a palatal stop [ciəçə]. (And not with a velar stop [k]).

Whether [t͡ʃ] is a very good representation is debatable. Something like [c͡ɕ] might be closer to actual pronunciation (but also more confusing).Jasy jatere 22:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I feel there is a significant difference between the Sinhala pronunciation of /c/ in /candaya/ or /vacanaya/ and the English pronunciation of /ch/ in /church/ or of /tch/ in /watching/.

As far as I can see, the English church is a postalveolar/prepalatal affricate. From Affricate, we learn:

• Voiceless postalveolar affricate [t̠ʃ] (in English, usually spelled "ch")
• Voiceless alveolo-palatal affricate [t̠ɕ] (in Polish, Mandarin, Thai)

Sinhala might be like the latter

We have to make that clear. And the German /k/ in /kirche/ and the Sinhala /c/ also differ much in pronunciation, as the Sinhala sound is way more palatal than the German one, as the part of the tongue used in making it is somewhat further to the front. I always thought that that was what IPA [c] signifies. It's not an urgent matter, but from my point of view, we'll have to find another solution. Krankman 22:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The question is whether there is a fricative portion in the sound under discussion. In German kirche that s obviously not the case, contrary to English church. As for Sinhala, I am pretty sure that there is a fricative portion. That much for the manner of articulation. I think the differences you hear are due to the place of articulation that is different. Jasy jatere 23:00, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, we need to do this in a more direct way. You know what I mean. Soon. Krankman 23:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

c and j are treated as affricates by Matzel III.3.a)Jasy jatere 13:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hi there. I see you are doing a great job over Sinhala alphabet. If you need any help regarding over Sinhalese scripting, Sinhalese language or Sri Lanka, let me know I'm happy to help you. Happy editing!!! --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 10:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes I can send you some copies of newspapers. Until I find one, you can link these [1][2] images to the Sinhala alphabet if you like. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 12:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Or you can have a screenshot of this page, if you like. [3] Font --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 12:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Umm.. founda Image:Chesrilanka0749.JPG commons:User:Soman/Sri Lanka --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 13:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

That poster is regarding a GCE Advanced Level Political science tuition class. deeshapaalana vidyaava means Political science, and the jayaseena beligala means the lecture's name. I can give the translation for the 3 white boxes even if you want. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 15:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

hmmm yeah . Is there need of a newspaper frontpage now? or may I try for a sigiriya graffiti image? --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 16:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Right, I'm on that now onwards. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 16:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Sigiriya graffiti.jpg here is the image that you wanted :-) --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 21:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems I have to contact him again. Ah the Barnstar, Jasy bro you deserves it, yeah you deserves it. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 14:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Admiration

		The Original Barnstar
		We, Lahiru_k and Snowolfd4, award you with The Original Barnstar for your outstanding efforts in bringing the Sinhala alphabet article to its currect stage from where it was. We are extremely proud that you as a foreigner has taken serious attempt to develop this article when we Sinhalese could not pay much attention to it. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie 08:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)--snowolfD4( talk / @ ) 19:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Hey, I just wanted to say "great job" on the Erzgebirgisch translation workspace. I started working on it a little bit more, but I rapidly find myself in over my head. One question: should 'tilgung' be rendered as 'apocope' or 'elision'? Best! Aelffin 15:27, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Edit and Wikify after translation. I did about half a paragraph where you had left off, then I gave up on the translation and started linking and editing. Aelffin 16:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey Jasy, are you sure the section you marked is incorrect? I mean, could it be true of some subdialects but not others? Or some speakers but not others? Regardless, I'll put it on the discussion page of the main article, Talk:Erzgebirgisch with a note. Aelffin 15:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I replied on Talk:Erzgebirgisch. By the way, are you personally familiar with the dialect? Do you know if there are any recordings available? Aelffin 17:39, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Erzgebirgisch

Yes, I think we should. I should have some time to work on proofing and editing in the next month or two. Good work. Aelffin 13:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Erzgebirgisch/Translation workspace

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[edit] Language requests

Could you please add Sinhalese text to the articles Sri Lanka Scout Association and The Sri Lanka Girl Guides Association. Thank you! Chris 21:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie} 03:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry about the wait

Hi Jasy, I'm sorry I've taken so many weeks to get back to you. I've been at a full-time job that took a good deal of time, but now it looks as though things are levelling off, so let me know if you need any help. I'm going to look for some resources on the internet for Sinhala, but drop me a note if you're still active here. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 16:32, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:User categories for discussion on -isms

Hi. A user category that you are in has been proposed for deletion at Wikipedia:User categories for discussion. You are welcome to comment. Cheers! bd2412 T 02:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Sinhala-scim.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Sinhala-scim.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Prince Kassad 17:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sri Lanka Reconciliation

Hello Jasy! I'm sorry that we all overlooked your application. I just supported you, and I don't think there will be any problem, but we'll have to wait a day and see if no one objects. I would be very happy to welcome you to the project! — Sebastian 07:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the project! Your application has been accepted unanimously! — Sebastian 02:21, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jaffna Kingdom

As a researcher and an SLR member can you look into the article and the category please, also University of Netherlands has this great digital database of historical documents that is not copy righted (?) , if you can get some of them pertaining to this category, we can populate the Wiki commons category on that. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 20:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

• You being the only scholar amongst our SLR crowd, I made the request. No problems. It is on it way. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 19:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your copyedit request

On 16 October 2007, you made a request to the League of Copyeditors for a copyedit on Sinhala alphabet. Because of a heavy backlog and a shortage of copyeditors, we have been unable to act on your request in a timely manner, for which we apologize. Since your request, this article may have been subject to significant editing and may no longer be a good candidate for copyediting by the League. If you still wish the League to copyedit this article, please review this article against our new criteria and follow the instructions on the Requests page. This will include your request in our new system, where it should receive more prompt attention. Finetooth (talk) 18:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are English and Latin transliterations the same?

Hi Jasy jatere, You stated on a recent edit that "deleted reference to English alphabet transliteration. We have Latin alphabet transliteration, which amounts to the same)". If Latin and English transliterations are the same, does it not make more sense to refer to English transliterations in an English Wikipedia and to Latin transliterations in the Latin Wikipedia (http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima)?--mrg3105 (comms) If you're not taking any flak, you're not over the target. 21:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I was reflecting last night on the discussion in the naming conventions, and feel that it was an unfortunate decision by you to go off and start a new proposal without participating in my proposal further. You made good points, but I think there is an underlying philosophical perception that you may not have considered. In a nut-shell this is that any encyclopaedia is a reference work. It is intended for a wide audience, and is not intended to be a book. I feel strongly that before people lunge into discussions they should have a clear definition of the terms being discussed. For me this is one of the failings of Wikipedia that articles do not have a == Definition section == in every article. Having defined the subject, editing becomes much easier.

For the record, reference is defined as - a relation between objects in which one object designates, or acts as a means by which to connect to or link to, another object.

From the reader point of view, when a reference work is consulted, there is no intention to learn a language or its correct spelling in the native language. The only desire is to fill a gap in existing knowledge being experienced by the reader. By and large the vast body of knowledge for an English reader is in English. Few ordinary people ever stop to consider they are using a Latin-based alphabet, or write letters that were used in Ancient Rome. This is for the same reason that few people when they shop consider that a "can" originated with artillery as a Canister shot.

While I have been repeatedly accused of trying to remove the accents from the article titles, in fact the only place of reference the article needs to the native language use is, and remains in the introductory section where all names are given: historical, euphemistic, nick names, official names, variant spellings, etc. It is not the job of the editors to prescribe the usage for the reader in any language, but only to inform. The only language they can inform in is the language of the reference work, which is English in this case. If a student writing an essay on Romania continues to copy names of Romanian cities from the Wikipedia into the English essay using Romanian accents, I can guarantee that the work will be marked with "wrong language usage" because it is not conforming to accepted standards in the English educational institutions that do not conform to either the Romanian government's policy, or other non-English, or international institutions. Wikipedia editor's first duty is to the average users, and I hope you can appreciate this.

Regards--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 22:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keyboard layouts

At Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English)#alphabets and scripts, you wrote: I can assure you that your keyboard is perfectly capable of producing öïÝỹĉ by just hitting two keys, just like any other English or American keyboard. If you want to, I can explain how to accomplish that feat.

I'd like to know how to do that with my keyboard, are you sure it works on every keyboard including laptops? - MTC (talk) 09:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi MTC,

you can use the us_intl variant of US keyboard layout on every keyboard, even laptops. In fact, I am using a laptop. The precise way of selecting your keyboard layout depends on your operating system.

• for windows, I think this page should help you: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306560
• for linux, access your kde or gnome control center and go to Regional & Accessibilty
• for MAC, I do not know (dont have one), but it should not be too complicated either

Best Jasy jatere (talk) 12:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

(Moved back to where conversations was started, I do hate factured conversations.)

I already use the US International keyboard layout but, as far as I can tell, it can only be used to type Western and Scandinavian accented Latin characters, nothing beyond the Latin-1 Supplement. (So it cannot type ỹ or ĉ, to use your examples quoted above). I would like to get a layout that can type most, if not all the characters in, at least, Unicode's Latin Extended-A. - MTC (talk) 15:07, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

That's interesting. I actually only know for sure that I can produce the letters I need on a regular basis, which is basically vowels plus one of `'^"~ and ñ. For the example I gave, I just hit some random characters on my keyboard. Hm, let's have a try:

* ẃéŕýúíóṕáśǵḱĺźćńḿ

* ẁèỳùìòà

* ŵêŷûîôâŝĝĥĵ

* ẅëẗÿüïöäḧ

* ẽỹũĩõã

Apparently, I can put acutes on many letters, but the other diacritics on a more narrow selection of letters. From your comment I understand that your computer does not permit you to do the same at present. Have you made sure that the application you are typing in is unicode-compliant? I am using Opera on Linux to write this text, maybe that makes a difference. I will try with other OSs and keep you informed on what I get.

If there are indeed major changes required to get a standard OS to produce some letters, this could have a bearing on these letters being recommended for the use in wp titles. Anyway, I find your findings very interesting Jasy jatere (talk) 16:27, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Firefox has a smaller set available than opera

* éŕýúíóáśĺ

* èùìòàêûîôâ

*Openoffice is the same as opera

*dillo (a very small and basic browser) is the same as opera, so the problem seems to pertain to firefox

* my xterm (about the most basic application you can get, like a DOS-prompt) also gets all characters Opera gets, so the problems with some characters seem specific to the application Jasy jatere (talk) 20:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

* did some googling, and haceks seem to be a problem, you can only get them with ALT codes it seems (which is tedious)Jasy jatere (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, I had no idea the browser could make a difference… just so you know, I'm using Firefox on Windows XP.

Also, there is another layout, the Canadian Multilingual Standard, which can type all the extra characters in Unicode's Latin Extended-A, which covers just about every Latin-based alphabet in Europe, but it is only able to do so on keyboards with a right Ctrl button, which my laptop doesn't have.

In any case, this should not affect the ability to use such characters in Wikipedia titles, as redirects are always possible. - MTC (talk) 07:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

• OK, now I get your point with the laptop keyboard. I have a normal qwerty without numpad, but there are more reduced keyboards for laptops. On normal keyboards Alt right is per default sth which is called Third level chooser in the linux world. It is possible in principle to assign the function of third level chooser to another key, e.g. the Caps lock, which is good for nothing anyway. This is reasonably trivial with linux, but I don't know how this works with windows. Still, if you get it to work, it should solve your problem.Jasy jatere (talk) 15:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for deletion/List of massacres (2nd nomination)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of massacres (2nd nomination) reasons now given please reconsider your opinion. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 20:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Diacritics

I've only stopped editing 'Ice Hockey articles'. I'd never let those foreign symbols drive me away from Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 23:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

It already happens with names like Zoran Žigić and Nikola Zigic --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 00:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You approve?!

I saw your reply

<<If we amend the start of the article with the wording I suggested above:

Article titles should use the English alphabet unless a clear majority of English language verifiable reliable sources use names that include other letters in the modern Latin alphabet. Other writing systems, such as syllabaries or Chinese characters, should not be used. ...

Then words like rose wine will be covered because if rosé is more common that rose then it will be used. But if it is not clear that the majority of verifiable reliable sources use rosé the rose would be used. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 09:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that wording is much more precise than the present one. I have a little problem with the formulation "clear majority", since the OED surely trumps tabloids. Wikipedia should aim at the OED level, not the tabloid one. Jasy jatere (talk) 14:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Note that my original "edit" which Stephan reverted was only to replace Latin alphabet with English alphabet.

You can never achieve a "clear majority" on words like rose/ rosé because the usage has become commercialised, and use of OED will get you nowhere in the liquor shop or at a winery! Having actually made wine in small amounts (50,000 litres) I can assure you that most English speaking wine manufacturers just don't care and leave it to lable designer's choice. Same situation exists with many words, including the oft-cited café among others.--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 01:26, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Prabhakaran

Hi Jasy Jatere. Just a correction regarding your comments on Wikipedia:Requested moves - I didn't move the article on Prabhakaran, someone else did. I noticed the move and raised it on the talk page because I disagreed with it. -- Arvind (talk) 23:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Latin alphabet

I don't see much difference between the two concepts; but I do think "Latin alphabet" is abused to defend un-English spellings. I will not revert to "English alphabet"; but I propose, on talk, to get rid of the first paragraph, including this controversial sentence, and fold anything worth keeping into the third (perhaps only the encouragement of non-Latin redirects). Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Linguistics/Subfields

I just wanted to say thanks for making those nice modifications to the Portal:Linguistics/Subfields. It's really nice to see that the portal is receiving attention and edits from the community again. Msanford  T  00:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] On FG

I remember, from an introduction to FG or it's later version, a diagram that would be of interest for the word order article since it's simple and illuminating. It concerned some correlations of word order type and the whole set of basic sentence constituents, as I remember it had for SOV S-O-iO-V-AuxV. There was also a different diagram, basically the one from the powerpoint presentation, which correlates both verb-word order and the corresponding morpheme order in languages where these are not analytic categories, but I believe Jan Rijkhoff has developed something similar for nominal morphemes as well. Let me know if you find something, I have a lot of essays that I really should be doing when I'm looking at Wiki, and somehow it's the source-tracking that takes the most time, reading and rewording for articles usually a takes me a lot less time, but then it usually needs some reworking after the fact, as you *ahem* may have noticed :p--AkselGerner (talk) 19:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually I didn't know about Rijkhoff before moving to Finland, it's funny how things work like that some times. I do have some parts of "the Noun Phrase" photocopied lying around, but I haven't found the right bit yet. I'll take it up when I have time.--AkselGerner (talk) 19:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Hal-lu.pdf listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Hal-lu.pdf, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? RichardΩ612 Ɣ |ɸ 18:08, May 6, 2008 (UTC) 18:08, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quebec stops

You're right, I shouldn't have marked it as minor. I said it was a dubious claim because the literature I've read puts (Parisian) French as having denti-alveolar stops. I put a justification for removing ligatures on my userpage. I don't have a problem with using a superscripts with affricates in cases of slight affrication (Russian phonology has an instance of a superscript s that I put there myself) but be sure that it is indeed only slight affrication. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 13:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Place name

The point that you made in the article is correct but if we say it then it is Original research but if some one has said it then it can be sourced. Anyway I really dont have a problem with the statement, it is a statement of fact and just wondering whether you had any sources to back it up considering how heated every sentence in there gets. I have sourced almost every sentence in there:)) Taprobanus (talk) 20:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I want to let you know what a great job you are doing on the article, Wikipedia is going to benefit because the conflict that created the need for such indepth an article. On a different note, I need your help on how to generate IAST for long /e:/ because instead of Eelath Thamilar, I want write it properly in the following template [4]. Also the retroflex L. Thanks Taprobanus (talk)

(Tamil: ஈழத் தமிழர், ēḻath thamiḻar ^[?]) Is this correct ? Taprobanus (talk)

[edit] Requested move of ume

You previously participated in a move request of ume. I have revived the request so please visit Talk:Ume#Requested move if you care to contribute. — AjaxSmack 16:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)