Talk:Ard-ghuillag

Ass Wikipedia.

v busy isn't it?

Sorry, don't speak Manx. I thought I'd say that it's great to see this Wikipedia under way, and I wish you all the best. As we say in Welsh, "dalwch a chi!" (keep at it!) 128.187.0.178 07:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Cummal 1 Mychione scughey yn duillag 2 learn Manx 3 Country names 4 Admin Status 5 Irish wikipedia? 6 Important Translations

[reaghey] Mychione scughey yn duillag

Lhisagh shin scughey yn duillag shoh dys fer as ennym Gaelg er? Myr sampleyr "ard-ghuillag" 'syn ynnyd jeh "main page". 13:40, 23 Mee ny Nollick (TMG) User: Shimmin Beg

Jeant nish, gura mie eu. Shimmin Beg 23:02, 30 Boaldyn 2008 (UTC)

[reaghey] learn Manx

How do i go about learning manx?? preferably over the internet i have a fairly good knowledge of Irish so i can sometimes understand the language but i couldnt write it, or get the grammer.... --81.38.85.84 11:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

• Well, I think that this is a good place :

[1] --Norrin_Strange (Talk) 16:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

• • yes it is, but are there dictionaries online that i can use...and some basic grammer tips or something....so far all i can do is copy and paste with intelligence (notice the 2 country pages and mary MacAleese articles)....:(

for the record i was [User:81.38.85.84|81.38.85.84]] --Spaircí 12:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

• • • There's the IOM official site, as well as Unilang.com's forum (dangit! Aaargh!). If anyone where to show up there I could confer onto all my crappy Manx knowledge (which is weak but better than most, quite unfortunatly...). The best way to learn is to use. As well, if anyone wants to speak Manx "live", mys MSN is drekkarREMOVE@msn.com. I'm going through as many articles as possible now, trying to get rid of as many grammatical errors as I can, at this moment the Manx wikipedia needs a huge revision/overhaul (tonnes of massive pages on random non-Manx topics and little info on the Isle of Man). - Yn Assag Olk

[reaghey] Country names

I'm not sure what's with the obsessive need to stick "Yn" in front of every country. There's only a handful of countries which have this in Scottish and Irish Gaelic. In most cases, the names like "Zambia" are non-English in origin, and calling them "The Zambia" or "the Namibia" makes little sense. It also means you have to mutate the next word, making it hard for the majority of readers like myself, who only know a handful of Manx. Ditto the chemical names - these are international, and it's pointless to respell them. English doesn't bother for most of them.--81.149.154.254 15:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

It is not an obsessive need to stick Yn in front of the name of countries. It's part of the grammar of the language. Yn is the Manx definite article. Using it makes the following noun definite. In English most country names are already inherently definite and therefore don't use the. Some do though (e.g. THE Netherlands, THE Congo, and until recently THE Ukraine). Therefore Yn Nameeb does NOT mean the Namibia - it simply means Namibia and that Namibia is definite rather than a mental or psychological construct. Many languages use a definite article to describe countries including French (L'Irlande, La France, L'Espagne). As regards handfuls of countries in Irish Gaelic using a definite article - you made that one up. That is completely inaccurate. As an Irish speaker myself I can vouch for the fact that the vast majority of geographical entities include the definite article (e.g. An tSiombáib, An tSáír, An tSeapáin, An Namaib, An Fhrainc, An Rúis, An Astráil, An tSín, An Mhongóil, An tSile etc.)

Also, in Talk:Yn Tambia you mentioned about Yn Hong Kong etc.???? No such thing. Sorry. The Manx for Hong Kong is simply Hong Kong. The Manx for Timbuktu is Timbuktu and the Manx for London is neither London nor Yn London but Lunnin. Where are you getting your arguments from because they all seem to be opinion based. And those opinions seem to have absolutely no basis in reality. For the list of chemical elements take a look at Coonseil ny Gaelgey's (The Manx language regulator) list of terms up to 2006 here or take a look at this Periodical Table of the Elements in Manx (although it excludes temporarily named elements. Also there is a good Manx language dictionary available here. Try type a country's name in there and see what you get.

The goal of the Manx language wikipedia is not to produce articles that are easy to understand for non speakers but to create an encyclopaedic database for those people with Manx who wish to have one. MacTire02 17:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Most of these have been made up for the wikipedia or very recently and would have never been used by native speakers of Manx. How often are Manx speakers going to speak about Equatorial Guinea or some obscure element of the periodic table with a half life of under a second? Not often. "Yn" means "the". I got far enough in Manx to understand that! So why does everything have to be "the Xyz"? We might as well have Yn Sostyn, Yn Mannin, Yn Doolish etc. You'd be better off just having articles on Zambia, Zimbabwe etc. This is an example of trying to be different when, there's no need. The goal of the Manx encyclopedia shouldn't be artificial obfuscation either.

"Yn Hong Kong etc.???? No such thing. Sorry. The Manx for Hong Kong is simply Hong Kong" - why not? Most of these names were made up recently by learners, so why shouldn't there be "Yn Hong Kong" or not? One learner's neologism is as good as another. --80.46.18.68 18:14, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

"Most of these have been made up for the wikipedia or very recently and would have never been used by native speakers of Manx." - Can you provide evidence of that? I am not going to explain my position any further. My arguments have been based on fact, yours on opinion. If you wish to question why these place names have Yn in front of them I suggest you contact the Coonseil ny Gaelgey. They make up the rules, not I. I follow them.MacTire02 18:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I doubt if any of these ever appeared in a publication before Ned Maddrell's death. Talk about making things hard on oneself! Coonseil ny Gaelgey does a lot of good work, but not everything it does is helpful! --80.46.18.68 20:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[reaghey] Admin Status

I wish to nominate myself for administrator. Are there any objections? We need somebody to prevent against vandalism, delete spam and nonsense pages etc. MacTire02 16:47, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[reaghey] Irish wikipedia?

Seems half of this wikipedia is now in Irish, despite the fact that Manx is closer to Scottish in many ways.

I know. It has been noted and a solution is being worked out although it might take a couple of days for it to work through the system. Please be patient while we update. Regards, MacTire02 15:27, 15 Averil 2008 (UTC)

Okay, looking mie though. ;)

[reaghey] Important Translations

Does anyone have any idea how we could translate log in, log out etc.? Based on Irish I have come up with logail stiagh and logail magh but I'm not sure. --MacTire02 19:22, 15 Averil 2008 (UTC)

We also need translations for the following:

• e-mail:
• ID:
• login:
• log in:
• log out:
• logged in:
• logged out:
• Template:
• Log(s):
• Upload:
• Download:
• Printable:

Voila

• login - ennym
• log in - Claare stiagh (Scottish Gaelic Clar a-staigh)
• log out - Claare magh
• email - post-l (lectragh)
• template - feeree
• log book - lioar hurrys
• ID - enney
• Download - cur neose
• upload - cur neese
• logged in/out - claarit stiagh/magh

Ok. I've decided to go with your ideas for log in / out etc, up/download, and ID. I think I'll go for clowan for template. It means frame - i.e. to frame the information. As regards log(s) - hmm. Not so sure about lioar hurrys. It suggests your travelling, whereas in fact that's not what it means here. Here it simply means to a record of problems, faults, deletions, etc on the wiki-project so I'm not sure lioar hurrys accurately reflects that. Any other suggestions for this one? I'm fairly stumped myself and if we can't come up with one we probably will have to go with lioar hurrys. --MacTire02 09:23, 30 Boaldyn 2008 (UTC)

Looking good. Presumably someone now needs to go through the existing templates/template-using pages and replace the terms? If we're happy with clowan I'll switch to using that. Regarding log, how about lioar cooishyn, as cooishyn is used for things like affairs, business or matters (e.g. matters arising)? For printable I'd suggest ry-chlou based on existing terms. --Shimmin Beg 18:55, 30 Boaldyn 2008 (UTC)

Have you any idea as to how we go about changing [[Template:XYZ]] over to [[Clowan:XYZ]]? I've been active on Betawiki for a while now doing the translations but I'm not sure how to change the names of such namespaces as Template:, Special:, etc. --MacTire02 19:17, 30 Boaldyn 2008 (UTC)

P.S.:Great to see you here Shimmin Beg. --MacTire02 19:19, 30 Boaldyn 2008 (UTC)

Gura mie ayd, it's good to get to use the Manx a bit. Actually, it should probably be cooishyn-lioar. S'treih lhiam nagh vel fys aym er caghlaa enmyn duillagyn er lheh (cha nel mee my reireyder, cha noddym caghlaa enmyn duillagyn erbee), as cha nod mee feddyn red erbee myechione. I'm afraid I don't know about changing the names of special pages (I'm not an admin, I can't change the names of pages anyway), and searching en.wikipedia didn't help at all. I'm stumped for now. I've tried a sample edit with a new page named Clowan:Sheiltynys (rigged up as a temporary thing, I'll finish it properly later) but links with { { Sheiltynys } } look for a Template: prefix not Clowan:. Feel free to experiment with it or your own templates. Shimmin Beg 23:00, 30 Boaldyn 2008 (UTC)

Some new ones (add more as required) and the terms I've started using, up for debate:

• Formatting - cummey
• Resolution - cruinnys
• Low-resolution - moal-chruinnys
• High-resolution - lajer-chruinnys

I'm planning to write off to the Coonceil ny Gaelgey to enquire about some terms, so I'll send these along and see what they suggest. I'll also send off the ones we've agreed already. Assuming they've no objections on grounds of making sense, it would be useful to have them added to e.g. the Manx dictionary, for common use and reference.Shimmin Beg 20:25, 6 Mean Souree 2008 (UTC)

There's a discussion underway at present about these terms and others. I'll let you know - it looks like they're going to recommend a few changes, but mostly they like your suggestions. Shimmin Beg 22:44, 9 Mean Souree 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. That's great news. I have to see what else will have to be changed on the interface in the meantime. MacTire02 22:52, 9 Mean Souree 2008 (UTC)