Talk:Valkyrie

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Contents 1 Vote for move 2 WP:POINT 3 Valkyries (and norns) as Dísir 4 The purpose of Valkyrie in Battle 5 Ibn Fahdlan accounts. Valkyries real people. 6 Girls' Soccer Teams 7 B-71 Valkyrie 8 Freyja

[edit] Vote for move

Although I see this as a waste of time BUT, Valkyrie can mean a number of things. Just like Enterprise. -- Cat ^chi? 17:45, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

• Move-- Cat ^chi? 17:46, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
• OPPOSE. This article should treat the basic meaning of Valkyrie, with a link to a disambiguation page where derived uses are listed.--Wiglaf 17:49, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose per Wiglaf's reasoning. The Norse term is the primary use from which all the others are derived, so it should be here, with the Starcraft unit and the experimental bomber and such disambiguated appropriately. —Charles P. (Mirv) 19:08, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

• I realise that but the Aircraft for instance have little to do with the norse term, nor does the motorcycle or any of the fictional characters in names. It is as related as the Aircraft Carrier Enterpise to Enterprise-D of Star Trek. Hence the need of disambig -- Cat ^chi? 04:23, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

• Hence Valkyrie (disambiguation). There's an extensive style guide for this. —Charles P. (Mirv) 14:22, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose per Wiglaf and Mirv. --Salleman 21:43, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose per above and note that someone should move Talk:Valkyrie (Norse mythology) back here and delete Valkyrie (Wagner) which was copied out of the main article. — Davenbelle 04:13, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
  • • I will move the talkpage when this vote is over.--Wiglaf 08:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
  • see also move request at Talk:Valkyrie (disambiguation) && WP:POINT. — Davenbelle 04:23, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
    • m:Don't be a dick -- Cat ^chi? 04:24, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
      • see also: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek/Proposed decision && this too. — Davenbelle 04:31, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
        • m:Don't be a dick and dont distupt wikipedia to make a point. -- Cat ^chi? 04:24, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose per Wiglaf and Mirv. —Wahoofive (talk) 20:19, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. As per Wiglaf. – AxSkov (☏) 06:55, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

No need to go on IMHO. I shall run from this vote before Valkyrie's come chasing me. ^^ -- Cat ^chi? 06:17, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. Dragons flight 00:18, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WP:POINT

User:Cool Cat, having had your unilateral move undone by Wiglaf, you requested this move again stating at the top of this page that you "see this as a waste of time" — and I can only assume you mean the move request, and that you expect the move to not have consensus — yet you made the move request anyway. This is exactly what Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point is about. — Davenbelle 04:45, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

You have any idea what the hell you are talking about? You request a move and then get a concensus. Thats why you list it on requested moves. I can suggest a freaking move. There is no bad faith here. Why don't you go pester some other civilisation? Stop following me around AS PER ARBCOM RULING YOU POSTED. Shoo! -- Cat ^chi? 04:49, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I do believe that I know what the hell I am talking about. — Davenbelle 07:39, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

You are plainly an irritating troll to make people discuss views you don't hold. Oppose me on every suggestion, move, and edit I make, go ahead. -- Cat ^chi? 07:45, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Cool Cat, I am not a troll, I do believe what I've said here, and your continued personal attacks are not helping your case any. — Davenbelle 07:50, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

So it is a mere coincidence that you are opposing me on a vote for the 5th time out of the 6 votes I was part of in the past 30 days? -- Cat ^chi? 07:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

I suggest that you make better proposals. — Davenbelle 08:00, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

This will look great on arbcom case. -- Cat ^chi? 08:06, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Valkyries (and norns) as Dísir

I think that it is wrong to state something which is never explicitly confirmed by the sources – but only an interpretation – as a fact in the lead sentence of the article; namely that the valkyries are dísir. The valkyrjur–dísir–nornir connection should be elaborated on in a section below the statement of facts. --Salleman 22:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Even Freya was a Dís, and according to the definition that the Dísir were "minor female deities", there is nothing wrong in it. Nor do I think that it is very controversial either. If you disagree, which is normal on Wikipedia, just change it.--Wiglaf 05:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I am, like Salleman, slightly uncomfortable with the wording of the lead. The valkyries, however, are sometimes referred to as dísir in the ancient sources so it is defensible. Here's an example from Krákumál (kudos to Wiglaf for writing an article on it).

Fýsum-k hins at hætta.

Heim bjóða mér dísir,

þær's frá Herjans höllu

hefr Óðinn mér sendar.

The translation is left as an exercise for the reader. - Haukurth 20:28, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Haukurth! The term dísir appears to have been used both for goddesses (Freya was Vanadís), Norns (according to Nordisk familjebok) and for Valkyries. IMHO, it is sensible to stay with this use of the name dís, since it is all we know about them.--Wiglaf 20:54, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The purpose of Valkyrie in Battle

This article says:

“

The valkyries' purpose was to choose the most heroic of those who had died in battle and to carry them off to Valhalla where they became einherjar.

”

I believe this is not true. To my best knowledge, the purpose of the Valkyrjur was to choose the fighters who would die in each battle (in old-norse: "kjósa val", which means to choose casualties), not to choose among the ones who died (all menn who died in battle became einherjar). They shared this role with Odin (sometimes named "Valfaðir", father of casualties) and Týr, the one-armed wargod. I will change this when I have the original source handy. BjörnÓmarsson 09:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ibn Fahdlan accounts. Valkyries real people.

They were priestesses concerned with human sacrifice in ancient Germanic culture as well, not just mythic minor deities; as has been fairly attested to by the likes of Ibn Fahdlan. "Angels of death" or really as they are translated "Choosers of the slain", is pretty much the same rendering in meaning. This shouldn't go without mention in the article. [1] Nagelfar 03:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Whatever the case may be, surely there's a better site out there hosting the study - that site is just painful. :bloodofox: 09:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, I remember reading that there was a prohibition against witches and 'valkyries' in a Catholic church restriction. I remember reading of it and the author making the point that if valkyries were a caste of people whose profession was forbidden, then they must have been actual people, possibly another name for a Völva that was in current use. 207.202.227.125 01:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Girls' Soccer Teams

I was browsing and came across this page and noticed that there were links to two girls' soccer teams, which seemed inappropriate. I would have said they should be linked or referenced on the disambiguation page. I shall come back to check to see if anyone makes a strong case for keeping them or whether someone who has contributed to this page has moved them or wants to keep them. Otherwise I shall move them at that point. --Muchado 15:43, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] B-71 Valkyrie

I can't find any mention on this aircraft anywhere on Wikipedia. Does anyone know anything about this?

[edit] Freyja

I move a section where Freyja is said to be a Valkyrie, here:

In Gylfaginning of the Prose Edda and the poem Grimnismál of the Poetic Edda, it is said that Freyja receives half of the slain heroes in her hall Fólkvangr, however there are no descriptions about life at Fólkvangr. In Skáldskaparmál, Freyja is called "Possessor of the Slain" (Eidandi Valfalls), and in Njal's Saga, another title of Freyja is mentioned: Valfreyja "Mistress of the Chosen" (cf. Valfadir, Valkyrja). Freyja is also called Vanadís, which suggests that she is related to the dísir.

The main problem here is that none of these facts point to Freyja being a Valkyrie. Dís simply meant "lady" and it appears to have comprised all female supernatural powers, including Freyja and the Valkyries. The fact that Freyja received the slain does not make her a Valkyrie more than it makes Odin a Valkyrie.--Berig 07:59, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Moved it back and gave it a section. Agreed that Freyja is a major goddess and is certainly not a mere minor Vakyrie, but Grimm pointed out in his "German Mythology" that Freyja is maybe Mistress of the Valkyr. Since the Valkyries divided the slain to both Odin and Freyja, it's worth mentioning Freyja and her links to Valkyries in the article. It clearly does not deserve a deletion. Cryinggirls(T T) 07:37, 17 October 2007 (UTC)