User talk:Vaikunda Raja

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Contents 1 Barnstar 2 Ayyavazhi festivals 3 redirects 4 Interesting articles and questions on Kroni 5 Parushrama and Rama-more questions 6 Vivekananda 7 Sampovan 8 Linga 9 Similaraties and Differences between Hinduism and Ayya-Vazhi 10 Ayya Vaikunt and Krishna and Kroni 11 Rudraksha 12 Vaikunda Avaratam and more questions 13 Re: About Vaikunda Avatharam 14 Your message 15 Ayya Vaikundar 16 Merging of three gods with trimurti article 17 Your message 18 Your message in Trimurti and ayyazhi 19 Bharat Mata 20 Smartism 21 Siva 22 Ayya Vaikundar 23 Vaishnavism 24 Hell 25 Ekam 26 Please have a look 27 Redirect of Swamithoppu → Swamithoppe → Swamithope 28 Merge and Redirect of Three godheads to Trimurthi 29 Nabi 30 Christian missionary reports 31 Image Tagging Image:Vadakku vasal.jpg 32 Vivekannda 33 Akilathirattu Ammana 34 Ambedekar and ayyavzhi 35 Christian missionary reports 35.1 ARTDC 36 Very nice user page! 37 Ayya Vaikundar 38 Karma in Hinduism 39 Short articles 40 Kanyakumari Stub 41 Vivekananda 42 Category:Millennial Wikipedians 43 Image:Pechiparai.jpg 44 Image tags 45 Your message.... 46 Image:Lotus and Soul.jpg 47 Image:Lotus.jpg 48 2 notes 49 idw 50 Image:Narayanar.jpg has been listed for deletion 51 Sampooranathevan 52 Image:Abode.png has been listed for deletion 53 Pantheism 54 Edits 55 Thanks 56 Image Tagging Image:Welcome-15-june.gif 57 Image:View Kanyakumari.JPG has been listed for deletion 58 Image:Avia envelope 2.gif has been listed for deletion 59 Tatvas 60 Religious symbols 61 Image:Flag.gif listed for deletion 62 Image source/licensing for Image:2 computers.gif 63 Image source/licensing for Image:Button multi color.gif 64 Don't re-upload images 65 Image Tagging Image:Parayana Urai.jpg 66 Image:The symbol of Ayya.jpg has been listed as a possibly unfree image 67 Seven Logas 68 Talk:Kaliyan 69 New additions 70 View of Vedas 71 Schools of Hinduism 72 Bahai 73 Ayyavazhi 74 Dharma Neetham 75 Dharma and Vivekendana 76 Cycles and Yugas 77 Image Tagging Image:Lotus with Soal.jpg 78 Image Tagging Image:Man_with_Thirunamam_And_Headgear.jpg 79 Image Tagging Image:Swamithoppe_Palliyarai.jpg 80 Image copyright problem with Image:Swamithoppe.jpg 81 Image copyright problem with Image:Earth-06-june.gif 82 Image Tagging Image:Siva.jpg 83 Image Tagging Image:Ucchippadippu.jpg 84 Image Tagging Image:Ugappadippu.jpg 85 Image Tagging Image:Mathur hanging bridge.jpg 86 Ayyavazhi 87 Request for edit summary 88 Image Tagging Image:Gandhi.jpg 89 Ayyavazhi#Phenomenology 90 Requesting help on the forgiveness article 91 Hello 92 Request Help 93 Image copyright problem with Image:Muttirikkinaru.jpg 94 Ayyavazhi 95 Image copyright problem with Image:Payan Chella Raj.jpg 96 Langar 97 About Local Holiday in Thoothukudi 98 Yes 99 Re: Template:Indiancopyright 100 Yes sure 101 Vicipaedia Latina 102 Sorry 103 Image Tagging for Image:Padma2.jpg 104 Ayyavazhi on it.wiki 105 citations 106 Kudos 107 Bahai faith 108 Will you listen ever? 109 Image Tagging Image:Ayya Vishnu.jpg 110 Help in Ayyavazhi article for it.wiki 111 anti Brahmins 112 Ayya Vaikunda on it.wiki 113 (يافالي Ayyavazhi article on ar.wiki 114 Image copyright problem with Image:Swamithoppe_Kodi-yetru_Thirunal.jpg 115 Reply to [1] 116 Orphaned fair use image (Image:Swamithoppe Kodi-yetru Thirunal.jpg) 117 Image:Narayana Vaikundar.JPG 118 Image:Mathur hanging bridge.jpg 119 Image:Logo of Excel Pearls School.png listed for deletion 120 Untagged image 121 Nizhal Thangals 122 Image:The_Ayyavazhi_logo.png listed for deletion 123 You're invited to join WikiProject Dravidian Civilizations 124 Image:Copy_of_Stub._Image.template.PNG listed for deletion 125 Non-free use disputed for Image:Akilattirattu Ammanai.jpg 126 religion 127 vaikunda 128 Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Parayana Urai.jpg

[edit] Barnstar

Vaikunda Raja is awarded the Barnstar for his contributions to AyyaVazhi articles. Raj2004 01:12, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I award Vaikunda Raja barnstar in appreciation of contributions to article related to India--Pinecar 07:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi festivals

I noticed you were the "King" of Ayyavazhi articles. Can I request you to put the Western dates of celebration as weel as the Tamil Dates . Right now the article only has Tamil dates, which is frustrating because I wish to learn about Ayyaavazhi but I and many other interested viewers don't know the Tamil calendar. Bakaman _Bakatalk 02:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] redirects

Please use redirects for alternate names and don't simply duplicate articles: Ucchippatippu, Ukappatippu. --MarSch 18:05, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry for the confusion. The words are very similar and the articles were near duplicates. Perhaps it would be a good idea to write about all of them in one article? That way you can see all of them at once. Perhaps merge them all into Arul Nool? You can still have everything redirect there, but these ultrashort article don't make anybody happy. --MarSch 14:15, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting articles and questions on Kroni

Vaikunda, very interesting articles on Shri Ayya Vaikunta avatar. I have been writing many articles on Hinduism and have learned a lot from your articles on Ayya Vayzi. So, if I read your articles, correctly, the personification of Evil, the same Kroni manifests in different yugas as Hirankashipu, Ravana and Duroyodhana from Mahabharata. And Sriman Narayana incarnates to destroy evil in His various avatars. One question I am puzzled. According to the Bhagavata Purana, Hiranksha and Hirankashipu, Ravana and Kumbakarna and Shisupala were the various births of Jaya and Vijaya, the gatekeepers of the Lord at Vaikuntha. I am trying to reconcile Ayya Vaiza theology and the Bhagavat Purana. Jaya and Vijaya were fallen devotees of the Lord. But according to ayya vazhi, these various manifestations of evil, Hirankashipu , Ravana were instead manifestations of evil, Kroni and not to do with Jaya and Vijaya?

Thanks for your help.

Raj2004 Vaikunda, thanks for your kind response. I noticed some differences and I am glad you are kind enough to help me understand the differences. Thanks again for your time. If you can and if you have time, perhaps, one suggestion is to create a new article on Differences between general Hindu beliefs, (common to all branches of Hinduism, Vaishnavism, saivism, smartism) and Ayya Vazhi religion and similarities. For example, both Smartism and Ayya Vazhi believe that Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are the same God unlile saivism and vaishnavism. Vaishnavism for example, believes Vishnu is the one God and not Siva. Smartism, like ayya vazhi, if I am correct, like to emphasize the formless aspect of God. Also, like all Hindu branches, ayya vazhi and general Hinduism all believe in the yugas, i.e., Krita, Treta, dwapara and kali yuga. That's one point of similarity. Raj2004 01:59, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there are some differences. Bhagawat purana states Jaya, Sriman Narayana's gatekeepr incarnated three births, one of which was Ravana due to a curse by the Sanaka munis.

Raj2004 18:32, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC) sure thing, I will help out.

Thanks.

Raj2004 19:23, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please let me know when you create the new article on similarities and differences betwen Hinduism and Ayya Vazhi religion. Let me know about the title of the new article and please let User:Sam Spade know. He is also an excellent and kind resource!

Raj2004 20:57, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So, in some of its beliefs, Ayya Vazhi is similar to Virasaivism in that men and women are equal.

Raj2004 01:16, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Parushrama and Rama-more questions

Is Shri Ayya Vaikunt an avesha avatar like shri Parushrama, in that Sriman Narayana did not directly descend like Krishna but instead entered the soul of a man and gave him extraordinary powers; see avatar article. when you mean manu avatar, is that the same as avesha avatar as Parushrama was?

Also, Lord Rama in Ramayana had three brothers, Lakshmana, Bharata and Shatrughana. In Ayya-Vazhi, Rama's five brothers were created as Pandavas in dwapara yuga. Who were Rama's other two brothers in Ayya-Vazhi?

"In the sixth aeon, called Dwapara Yukam, the fifth fragment of Kroni was portioned into a hundred pieces, and made into Duriyodhanan and ninety-nine brothers to support him. The five brothers of Raman of the preceding epoch were created as Pancha Pandavas in this aeon. The wicked Duriyodhanan was killed by the Pancha Pantavas, with the support of Mayon, who came in the form of Krishna."

Thanks, Raj2004 21:01, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vivekananda

It is interest to note that the great saint, Swami Vivekananda, was influenced by Ayya Vazhi. One of the web sites you posted said the following,"Also from the later history, when Swami Vivekananda came to Kanyakumari, He visited Swamythoppu temple when he heard about Lord Vaikunta. From that time he started wearing a turban on his head all the time."

Raj2004 22:42, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sampovan

No problem. Vaikunda, who is Sampovan? Vibeshana is said to be a Chiranjeevin and is an immortal like Hanuman. Hence, I am not sure if he can be born again unless Ayya Vazhi states that he is not a Chiranjeevin. I am not trying to ask too many questions but I want to understand the differences.

Raj2004 13:59, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also, I think believers of Ayya-Vazhi should spread the religion to other places outside Tamil Nadu. Perhaps, they can help improve the lives of Dalits, who have been oppressed like the Nadars.

[edit] Linga

I am confused about this new added statement in Ayyavazhi:

"It cannot be mistaken as a symbol similar to lingam, Saligram, etc, because 

Linga or Saligram is used as an alrenation to anthromorphic symbols. But here in Ayyavazhi, the Elunetru which is placed in the Palliyarai was considered as a seat to God, and not considered as God himself." The linga, like the Ayya Vazhi symbol, which uses Rudraksha, another symbol of Shiva,is not considered Siva himself but rather is a symbol of God. So, I think in that way, the linga is similar to the Ayya Vazhi symbol. If you don't mind, I will change the statement. By the way, what are elunetry and palliyarai? Raj2004 22:49, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vaikunt, thanks for your detailed comments and your time. some say the linga is a symbol of the Lord, rather than the form of Siva. That's why I am not sure. Swami Sivananda said the linga was a symbol to worship the Lord. Many saivites also agree and some even say both. As for Vivekananda, I heard it from the site: http://kanyakumarionline.com/ayya/influence.asp Vivekananda was one of the most brilliant saints in the 19th century. Intially, he was agnostic and scientific-leaning before he met Ramakrishna, who convinced him that God exists. The Ayya Vazhi reason seems to make more sense than the Vedanta reason. Vivekananda was deeply thoughtful and wouldn'd do anything with reason. Like you, I agree that he must have been influenced by ayya vazhi.

Also, so according to ayyavazhi, Vibeshana was not a Chiranjeevin but wanted to help the Lord in his next birth.

Thanks for adding the beautiful painting of Vishnu in the Vishnu article.

Raj2004 02:03, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, very interesting. Raj2004 28 June 2005 11:04 (UTC)

[edit] Similaraties and Differences between Hinduism and Ayya-Vazhi

Vaikunda,

As for suggestions on writing an article on similararaties and differences between Hinduism and Ayya-Vazhi, perhaps, an analog article, as guidance, may help: Similarities between the Bible and the Qur'an

Hope this helps. Raj2004 28 June 2005 21:33 (UTC)

[edit] Ayya Vaikunt and Krishna and Kroni

Vaikunda,

thanks for the clarifcation. So Vaikunda would be like a Purna avatar like Krishna. But did he demonstrate powers like Krishna as vision of the Universal form as told in the Bhagavad Gita? for example, http://www.gitamrta.org/god.htm

Also, if Vishnu and Siva are the same, how can Shri Vaikundar be an avatar of a comparative Superpower?

God is same and Vaikunt is his avatar.

Kroni seems like the personification of evil itself so he is similar to the Devil or Satan in non-Hindu religions and encourages man to do evil and oppose God.

Thanks for the clarification. So Vaikundar is an incarnation of the Trimurti, like Dattatreya The reason I said Vishnu and Siva are the same is that one of ayya vazhi sites stated: "Even to pundits, what to speak of common people, it is very difficult to grasp the different manifestations of the almighty God. Today, we see these pundits discriminate between one God and another. Lord Vaikuntar preached that Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are one and the same God."

Raj2004

Thanks again, Vaikunt So the Trimurti, to respect the boon of the evil Kroni, manifested Themselves together as Lord Vaikundar. Can you explain the story of Kroni asking for that boon?

that helps me understand now.

Raj2004 3 July 2005 23:01 (UTC)

Is Kaliyan the same as Kroni? But according to ramayana, there were vimanas. so did man possess the technology and then lost it? In any event, the description of vimana in ramayana may not be verifiable.

Raj2004 4 July 2005 01:07 (UTC)

Ok. If you can tell more details about the boon, that would be very interesting.

Raj2004 4 July 2005 10:46 (UTC)

[edit] Rudraksha

I am very interested in the Rudraksha seeds, and am wondering if you could help to expand this article, or to explain more about them, and their importance. Also, very nice photo on your user page, looking good!

Cheers, ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 4 July 2005 18:05 (UTC)

[edit] Vaikunda Avaratam and more questions

Great article. I think you have to tell about the details of the boon given to Kaliyan. Also, we have to be careful in distinguishing, Kali, an aspect of Shakti, Sivan's Shakti, a force of good from the evil Kaliyan. Raj2004 7 July 2005 13:53 (UTC)

also do followers of ayya vazhi cremate their dead like other hindus or bury? Does Narayana in ayya vazhi mean trimurti or it is Vishnu as in Hinduism? Thanks again. Raj2004 7 July 2005 14:50 (UTC)

Vaikunda, I think you should put such details about the other members of the trimurti giving power to Vishnu and also add in burial is a common funeral practice of followers of Ayya vazhi in ayya religious practices. This is different from Hindu practices. Hindus, in general cremate and those Hindus that don't cremate are monks and children under five.

Thanks,

Raj2004 7 July 2005 23:08 (UTC)

Vaikunda, it was in relation to your statement: "in kali yukam all the powers of Sivan and Brahma were handled over(surrendered) to Narayana to destroy the Kali, because Sivan and Brahma created Kaliyan without discussion with Narayana with the completion of Devas. So in Kaliyukam Sivan's and Brahma's were puppet regime." It seems Vishnu acquired the other trimurt's powers to destroy kaliyan.

Raj2004 8 July 2005 10:03 (UTC)

[edit] Re: About Vaikunda Avatharam

I understand the distinction now; thanks for clearing it up. Do you think that we should maybe have both the historical and mythical tellings of the incarnation as different sections in one article (so as to make clear that they describe the same event, though from different perspectives), or is it best to leave them as two articles that reference each other? Any help that I can give, with copy-editing or otherwise, I gladly will. - Christiant 04:18, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your message

But your article on Vaikunda Avatharam starts by referring to him as Ayya Vaikundar — it's unclear why you think that two different articles are needed about one person. He may well have existed in reality as well as having mythical status, but that's something that can be brought out and discussed in the single article, surely? The same sort of thing has been discussed at Jesus; there was probably a real person to whom that name refers, but much of what's said about him by Christians is mythological in character. The suggestion that the article be split into Jesus and Jesus Christ (in what's known as a PoV fork) was rejected, and Jesus Christ merely redirects to Jesus. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:09, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ayya Vaikundar

Vaikunt, I am confused about this statement, Ayya Vaikundar is an avatar of Trimurti. A few edits back, I think you said that he was an avatar of Narayana. The ayya vazhi web sites state that he is an avatar of Narayana. Also, please discuss the boons given to Kalineesan. I believe you said that Sivan and Nathan gave him boons without discussing the matter with Vishnu. Thus, Vishnu received sivan's powers in this age for destroying Kroni. Although Siva and Vishnu, like in smartism, are considered different aspects of the same God, I believe you said that Sivan's powers were given to Vishnu in this Kali Yuga for the purpose of destroying Kroni.

Is this correct?

Raj2004 14:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Vaikunda, thanks again for the clarification and for all your help in answering my questions. So Ayya Vaikundar is ultimately, the avatar of Nirguna Brahman, the parataman but the form of Brahman, Vishnu is within ayya Vaikunda. as Vishnu is the form of God, for the purpose of destroying evil, His spirit is within ayya vaikundar.

The more I read about ayya vazhi, the more similar it is to smartism and advaita. Swami Sivananda, in his book, "All about Hinduism" summarized adavita philosophy and discussed Brahman in the following:

"Sankara’s Supreme Brahman is impersonal, Nirguna (without Gunas or attributes), Nirakara (formless), Nirvisesha (without special characteristics), immutable, eternal and Akarta (non-agent). It is above all needs and desires. It is always the Witnessing Subject. It can never become an object as It is beyond the reach of the senses. Brahman is non-dual, one without a second. It has no other beside It. It is destitute of difference, either external or internal. Brahman cannot be described, because description implies distinction. Brahman cannot be distinguished from any other than It. In Brahman, there is not the distinction of substance and attribute. Sat-Chit-Ananda constitute the very essence or Svarupa of Brahman, and not just Its attributes.

The Nirguna Brahman of Sankara is impersonal. It becomes a personal God or Saguna Brahman only through Its association with Maya.

Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman are not two different Brahmans. Nirguna Brahman is not the contrast, antithesis or opposite of Saguna Brahman. The same Nirguna Brahman appears as Saguna Brahman for the pious worship of devotees. It is the same Truth from two different points of view. Nirguna Brahman is the higher Brahman, the Brahman from the transcendental viewpoint (Paramarthika); Saguna Brahman is the lower Brahman, the Brahman from the relative viewpoint (Vyavaharika)." from web site, http://www.dlshq.org/download/hinduismbk.htm#_VPID_95

so ayya vazhi, like advaita would say that ayya vaikundar is the incarnation of nirguna brahman, the higher Brahman.

Saguna Brahman, the lower Brahman would be forms of this Ultimate, Vishnu and Siva.

Right?

Raj2004 23:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks again. Partly agree. The linga, by many interpreters is not a form of God. There are many interpretations. For example, Sri K. Thirugna Sambantha, in his excellent web site of Saivism, http://www.geocities.com/shivaperuman/main.html, explains that the Siva lingam is the ruparupa aspect because it is neither a manifested form of Siva, nor is it formless, because the linga is a tangible piece of stone, and an symbol of God. Thus, it is intermediate between the formless Absolute, Parasiva, which is beyond the sensory perception of man, and the many manifest forms of Siva.

Swami sivanda, calls the linga, the formless aspect, formless aspect of God or Nirguna Brahman. This is like Elunetru.

for example, Linga Represents The Formless Siva

"Siva-Linga speaks to you in unmistakable language of silence: “I am one without a second. I am formless.” Linga is only the outward symbol of the formless being, Lord Siva, who is the indivisible, all-pervading, eternal, auspicious, ever-pure, immortal essence of this vast universe, who is the undying soul seated in the chambers of your heart, who is your Indweller, innermost Self or Atman and who is identical with the Supreme Brahman.

Sphatikalinga—A Symbol Of The Nirguna Brahman

Sphatikalinga is also a symbol of Lord-Siva. This is prescribed for Aradhana or worship of Lord Siva. It is made up of quartz. It has no colour of its own, but takes on the colour of the substances which come in contact with it. It represents the Nirguna Brahman or the attribute-less Supreme Self, or the formless and attributeless Siva." from his book, Lord Siva and his worship. from web site, http://www.dlshq.org/download/hinduismbk.htm#_VPID_110

also, many adherents of Hinduism are theoretical. But not Ramakrishna Mission. Swami Vivekananda, advoctaed practical religion, like ayya vazhi.

Thus, it is possible that Swami Vivekananda was influenced by ayya vazhi.

It is gratifying to know how similar ayya vazhi and smartism are similar. I do not distinguish between Siva and Vishnu. For me, as Shri Ayya Vaikundar preached, they are different manifestations of the same God.

Raj2004 01:01, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merging of three gods with trimurti article

Vaikunda,, we are having a discussion about whether we should merge threegod heads with trimurti in ayya vazhi articl on it.

I said perhaps. what do you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Three_godheads_%28Ayyavazhi%29

Raj2004 21:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your message

Thanks for replying to my question ("'It is considered by some to be an offshoot of Hinduism.' Is there anyone who doesn't so consider it?"). One would of course expect an offshoot of a religion to differ either in its mythology or its practices or both. As I've read the material that you've provided, however, it's seemed clear that the basic structure is Hindu, and that the differences don't really disguise that. Being an offshoot, though, is primarily an historical matter, though; is there anyone who actually claims that Ayyavazhi arose independently of Hinduism (that, if Hinduism hadn't existed, Ayyavazhi would have arisen anyway)? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:35, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your message in Trimurti and ayyazhi

No problem and thanks again as always for your message. I couldn't tell whether ayyavazhi is pantheistic or panentheistic as the currently written articles don't express a preference. As for your Trimurti comment, I think your comment might add some confusion. according to the ayyavazhi web sites, sri vaikundar preached that the aspects of God are the same, and the fact that Sivan and Nathan gave the powers to Vishnu does not mean that Vishnu is all in One. So I think the Trimurti concept in smartism is the same as ayyavazhi.

see for example, "Worship of one God "Even to pundits, what to speak of common people, it is very difficult to grasp the different manifestations of the almighty God. Today, we see these pundits discriminate between one God and another. Lord Vaikuntar preached that Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are one and the same God. He asked the people to wear a turban on their heads and wear a long dhoti while worshipping. He preached against praying to the manifestations such as demi-gods and other devatas who are mostly worshipped by the people for material boons and favours. He strongly advised worshiping the one and only God and nothing else. He also asked the people to worship God five times a day." from http://www.ayyavaigundar.org/avatar.htm#12

Am I correct? I think adding your note may make for more confusion?

also, when you mean Hinduism with regard to your Trimurti comment, you are really meaning smartism. (your comment: "Hinduism remains saying that each of trimurti were performing their own works of creating, Maintaining, and destroying") In Vaishnavism, Vishnu does all such functions. same with Saivism.

Raj2004 21:51, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, the trimurti are different forms of saguna brahman.

Raj2004 09:31, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Is Ayya Vazhi pantheistic or panentheistic?

Raj2004 11:05, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bharat Mata

Hello, I have been researching Indian politics and have found Bharat Mata. Altho the article on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh states that it is the worlds largest volunteer organisation, the article on Bharat Mata is in very poor shape. I am wondering if you are at all familiar w this deity, and if there is anything you can add to the Bharat Mata article? ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 03:38, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

No, Vaikunda Siva Linga is a symbol of Siva.

Sri K. Thirugna Sambantha, in his excellent web site of Saivism, [1], explains that the Siva lingam is the ruparupa aspect because it is neither a manifested form of Siva, nor is it formless, because the linga is a tangible piece of stone, and an symbol of God. Thus, it is intermediate between the formless Absolute, Parasiva, which is beyond the sensory perception of man, and the many manifest forms of Siva.

Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami explains in the lexicon section of his book, Dancing with Siva, that "Sivalinga is the most prevalent icon of Siva, found in virtually all Siva temples. It is a rounded, elliptical, aniconic image, usually set on a circular base, or peetham. The Sivalinga is the simplest and most ancient symbol of Siva, especially of Parasiva, God beyond all forms and qualities. The Peetham represents Parashakti, the manifesting power of God. Lingas are usually of stone (either carved or naturally existing, svayambhu, such as shaped by a swift-flowing river), but may also be of metal, precious gems, crystal, wood, earth or transitory materials such as ice. According to the Karana Agama (6), a transitory Sivalinga may be made of 12 different materials: sand, rice, cooked food, river clay, cow dung, butter, rudraksha seeds, ashes, sandalwood, darbha grass, a flower garland, or molasses."

Swami Sivananda,states that the linga represents the formless, attributeless Nirguna Brahman or the formless Supreme Being Lord Siva, who is the indivisible, all-pervading, eternal, auspicious, ever-pure, immortal essence of this vast universe, the undying soul seated in the chambers of your heart, and the Indweller, innermost Self or Atman and who is identical with the Supreme Brahman.

from http://www.dlshq.org/download/hinduismbk.htm#_VPID_110

Raj2004 01:29, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Smartism

It did not evolve from Advaita. It goes even further; It accepted Advaita philosphy from the beginning. As you may know, the great saint, Sankara was the proponent of Advaita philosophy. He preached that Brahman was all and primarily Nirguna Brahman, like ayyavazhi's Ekam. For the pious worship of devotees, Brahman appears as Saguna Brahman. Hence, Sankara, like sri vaikundar preached that Siva and Vishnu are different aspects of the same God. Furthermore, Sankara concluded all forms of God, including Ganesha, Devi, and Surya, are also forms of Nirguna Brahman. Some also add Skanda, who is also mentioned in AyyaVazhi religion.

Sankara introduced the pancha worship, worship of the five deities as equivlent forms of God, Vishnu, Siva, Ganesha, Surya, Devi. The brahmin followers of Sankara who accepted these beliefs were the Smarta Brahmins and developed Smartism. Smartism, which followed Advaita philosophy, had a predominant effect on Hinduism as most Brahmin gurus followed Sankara and spread Smartism to the masses. As you know, great saints in the modern Hindu tradition were all Smarta: Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Sivananda, and so forth.

Later Brahmin groups, such as the Madhva Brahmins, disagreed and said Vishnu was the supreme God.

Hope this helps.

see also definition of smartism:

Smartism: (Sanskrit) "Denomination of Hinduism based on the secondary scriptures (smriti). The most liberal of the four major Hindu denominations, an ancient Vedic brahminical tradition (ca 700 bce) which from the 9th century onward was guided and deeply influenced by the Advaita Vedanta teachings of the reformist Adi Shankara. Its adherents rely mainly on the classical smriti literature, especially the Itihasas (Ramayana and Mahabharata, the latter of which includes the Bhagavad Gita), Puranas and Dharma Shastras. These are regarded as complementary to and a means to understanding the Vedas. Smartas adhere to Shankara's view that all Gods are but various depictions of Saguna Brahman. Thus, Smartas are avowedly eclectic, worshiping all the Gods and discouraging sectarianism. The Smarta system of worship, called panchayatana puja, reinforces this outlook by including the major Deity of each primary Hindu sect of ancient days: Ganesha, Surya, Vishnu, Siva and Shakti. To encompass a sixth important lineage, Shankara recommended the addition of a sixth Deity, Kumara. Thus he was proclaimed shanmata sthapanacharya, founder of the six-fold system. One among the six is generally chosen as the devotee's preferred Deity, Ishta Devata. For spiritual authority, Smartas look to the regional monasteries established across India by Shankara, and to their pontiffs. These are the headquarters of ten orders of renunciate monks who spread the Advaita Vedanta teachings far and wide. Within Smartism three primary religious approaches are distinguished: ritualistic, devotional and philosophical. See: dashanami, panchayatana puja, Shankara."

from http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/dws/lexicon/s.html

as you can see, Smartism is so close to Ayya Vazhi in philosophy. which makes sense. Some claim sankara is an avatar of Sivan.

Let me know if this helps. That's why I was excited to see how similar ayya vazhi and smartism are in philosophy.

Raj2004 01:47, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

In Sanskrit smartra means "one who remembers, a teacher, (etc)", and smārta means "relating to memory, recorded in or based on the smrti, based on tradition, prescribed or sanctioned by traditional law or usage, (etc)", from the root smr = "remember".

[edit] Siva

Vaikunda, according to Saivites, Siva assumes three forms. One is Parasiva, which is equivalent to Nirguna Brahman, the one that cannot be defined. This Parasiva, akin to Smarta theology assumes forms, akin to saguna brahman, Siva with form." another form of siva is the siva linga, a symbol of siva.

"Siva the Absolute has no form and no attributes. The mind of man cannot grasp one which has no form. Man likes to pray to God, to supplicate to Him, and to desire ultimate union with Him to enjoy eternal bliss. To satisfy this desire on the part of man, Siva is conceived of in three aspects: the formless, the formless-form, and the form. These three are called the arupa, ruparupa and rupa aspects. The arupa aspect is the All-pervasive, All-knowing one, who is beyond the sensory perception of man. (i.e., Parasiva) The ruparupa aspect is the sivalinga; its is not any manifested form of Siva, nor is it formless, because we have before us here a concrete piece of stone; the Sivalinga form is generally the one to which puja is offered in personal worship or in public temple worship. The rupa aspect is the manifest forms of Siva, such as the Chandrasekhara, Bhiksatana, Daksinamurti and the like, which are said to have been assumed by Siva on different occasions for conferring His Grace on devotees. "

also see "According to Saivism, Siva takes three types of bodies or forms. In his intrinsie state, He is formless. It is called Arupa state. Out of his immense love or Grace for the souls, He takes forms. Thus is the Rupa state. In between these two states is the 'formless-form' called 'Aruparupa' form. In Saiva Siddhanta philosophy, in His formless state He is called Sivam. In his 'formless-form' state He is called Sathasivam. In His state with form He is called Maheswaraa"

from http://www.geocities.com/shivaperuman/

hope this helps.

Raj2004 02:34, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

No in saivism, parasiva and nirguna brahman are one and the same. In smartism, there are no three stages of siva. Siva is considered to be saguna brahman

Raj2004 03:03, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ayya Vaikundar

see comments at Talk:Ayya Vaikundar Steven McCrary 08:21, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vaishnavism

No problem. Vaishnavism again is a broad term, with various proponents, Vallabhacharya's school of pure monism, Nimbarka's school of Dvaitaadvaita and Ramanuja's school of qualified monism and Chaitayna's school of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. They are all panentheistic. Madhva with his school of Dvaita, was different and had his dualistic form of philosophy. I am not as familiar with the various viewpoints. But Gaudiya Vaishnavism, has some similarities with saivites' view of siva. One is formless Nirguna Brahman, or Mahavishnu. The second form is Vishnu with the four-armed form. The third form is His Shaktis', Yogamaya which comprises the world. Mahavishnu transcends the world and beyond it. see http://www.gaudiya.com/index.php?topic=theology

Raj2004 21:31, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hell

Hinduism, as you may know, has a hell. It is called Naraka ruled by Yama.

Raj2004 10:30, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ekam

from what I read about your description of Ekam, it's the same concept as Nirguna Brahman. All is Brahman, so says Sankara

Raj2004 23:18, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Got your message. I will take a look.

Raj2004 22:41, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Please have a look

I left some confusing passages @ Talk:Ayyavazhi and Hinduism, and I am hoping you can help me to understand them. Cheers, ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 20:40, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect of Swamithoppu → Swamithoppe → Swamithope

Raja, respectfully, the current spelling of the village name Swamithope is important. I have put in a redirect for Swamithoppu → Swamithoppe → Swamithope. It appears that the currently recognized spelling of that village is Smapithope, as reference on the map at Image:SwamithopeMap.jpg. That map comes from the Tamil Nadu government Web site at http://tnmaps.tn.nic.in/, specifically the map is located at http://www.kanyakumari.tn.nic.in/ >Tourism>Maps → http://www.kanyakumari.tn.nic.in/tour.htm → http://www.kanyakumari.tn.nic.in/MAP.jpg. Please verify, Thanks. Steven McCrary 22:56, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

I placed a redirect request at Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion#August 2 Steven McCrary 22:56, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge and Redirect of Three godheads to Trimurthi

Please take a look at comments made at Talk:Three_godheads_(Ayyavazhi)#Merging_to_Trimurthi Thanks, Steven McCrary 20:09, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nabi

Hi, Vaikunda I don't understand this statement,"A quote reads "The one who think that Nabi is Allah will suffer" and also "Nothing would happen without Allah" (here Allah is used in the term of Nirguna Brahman) in the talk section of ayyavazhi and hinduism. what is Nabi?

Please remember to try to define every term that is not known by the reader of the enyclopedia. we all sometimes write unclear terms. I have done it sometimes as well. Because we have to be as clear to the outsider reader who has no knowledge of the subject.

Thanks again as always for your help! I have learned a lot from you about ayyavazhi.

Raj2004 22:43, 3 August 2005 (UTC) Thanks, Vaikunda when you mean Mohammad Nabi, are you refering to a person named Muhammad Nabi or the Prophet Muhammad? Are they two different persons or are they the same?

Raj2004 00:56, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

As the ayyavazhi holy text suggests that the organized religions of Christianity and Islam may be incorrect, what does Ayyavazhi say about Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism? Thanks again for answering all my questions.

Raj2004 01:49, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Why did ayyavazhi holy text is harsh on the prophet Muhammad? what did he say that angered God?

Raj2004 00:41, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Christian missionary reports

Raja, the article Ayyavazhi_in_reports_by_Christian_missionaries requires a lot of work. I am placing a "To Do" List on Talk:Ayyavazhi_in_reports_by_Christian_missionaries. Steven McCrary 22:07, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging Image:Vadakku vasal.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Vadakku vasal.jpg. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag, so its copyright status is therefore unclear. Could you add a tag to let us know its copyright status? (If you created/took the picture then you can use {{gfdl}} to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use {{fairuse}}.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know on the image description page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Otherwise, see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use. Thanks so much. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:49, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vivekannda

Raja, that's fine, your proposed edit to vivekananda so long as we have a source, a book, a scholar, etc.

Thanks again for your answers.

Raj2004 00:22, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

No problem. We can put your statement about Vivekananda being influenced by Ayyavazhi religion so long as we have a reference, a book or a scholar that states such a thing. For Example, Swami Tapsyanda, in his book, Vivekandna, states that Vivkananda was a disciple of Ramakrishna. That would be an example of a statement supported by a reference.

so long as we have a source, a book, or a scholar, that's fine.

Raj2004 00:49, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I remember. the site is : http://www.ayyavaigundar.org/avatar.htm "Also from the later history, when Swami Vivekananda came to Kanyakumari, He visited Swamythoppu temple when he heard about Lord Vaikunta. From that time he started wearing a turban on his head all the time."

Raj2004 01:03, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Akilathirattu Ammana

Raja, do you think there will be ever an English translation of the ayyavazhi holy book? There seems to be a lot of wisdom there. Also, in Hindism, many Hindus, like ayyvazhi, believe that the Vedas have lost their substance by the time Kali Yuga arrived.

see for example, statement by the Mahabharata:

"In the Kali age, all the Vedas become so scarce that they may not be even seen by men. Afflicted by iniquity, they suffer extermination along with the rites and sacrifices laid down in them. The righteousness which is seen in the Krita age is now visible in such Brahmanas (Brahmins) as are of cleansed souls and are devoted to penances and the study of the scriptures." From the Mahabharata Santi Parva, section CCXXXII Translated by Sri Kisari Mohan Ganguli

http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaliyuga.htm

I would urge ayyvazhi scholars to translate the holy book into english.

Raj2004 16:02, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Raja, thanks for answering my questions. With so many interpretations, it may be difficult to translate.

Raj2004 01:27, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ambedekar and ayyavzhi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._R._Ambedkar

Raja, what do you think about Ambedekar? He said the following about Hinduism due to caste prejudices followed by many of its followers:

) I shall have no faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh nor shall I worship them.

2) I shall have no faith in Rama and Krishna who are believed to be incarnation of God nor shall I worship them.

3) I shall have no faith in ‘Gauri’, Ganapati and other gods and goddesses of Hindus nor shall I worship them.

4) I do not believe in the incarnation of God.

5) I do not and shall not believe that Lord Buddha was the incarnation of Vishnu. I believe this to be sheer madness and false propaganda.

6) I shall not perform ‘Shraddha’ nor shall I give ‘pind-dan’.

7) I shall not act in a manner violating the principles and teachings of the Buddha.

8) I shall not allow any ceremonies to be performed by Brahmins.

9) I shall believe in the equality of man.

10) I shall endeavor to establish equality.

11) I shall follow the ‘noble eightfold path’ of the Buddha.

12) I shall follow the ten ‘paramitas’ prescribed by the Buddha.

13) I shall have compassion and loving kindness for all living beings and protect them.

14) I shall not steal.

15) I shall not tell lies.

16) I shall not commit carnal sins.

17) I shall not take intoxicants like liquor, drugs etc.

18) I shall endeavor to follow the noble eightfold path and practice compassion and loving kindness in every day life.

19) I renounce Hinduism, which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality, and adopt Buddhism as my religion.

20) I firmly believe the Dhamma of the Buddha is the only true religion.

21) I believe that I am having a re-birth.

22) I solemnly declare and affirm that I shall hereafter lead my life according to the principles and teachings of the Buddha and his Dhamma.

Do you think if ambedekar learned about ayyavazhi, he would not have rejected God, Thirumal or Sivan? I think if ambedekar learned about ayyvazhi, he would not have rejected Hindu/ayyavazhi beliefs about God. The ayyvazhi religion would offer hope for dalits.

Thanks.

Raj2004 16:09, 7 August 2005 (UTC) Lord Krishna said caste was a function of nature, not birth. Following that theory, one who constanly thinks of Thirumal is brahmin in nature.

The greatest devotees of Krishna were varied in caste, Kanaka Dasa, Tukaram, both of them from Non-Brahmin Caste birth , Purandara Dasa, a Brahmin.

What Krishna or Thirumal cares is undivided devotion to God, not birth. Vivekananda was very correct about caste.

Raj2004 01:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

This is what a Vaishnavite interpretation of caste: http://india.krishna.org/Articles/2000/07/00057.html as for rama killing a Non-Brahmin person, that episode is said to be told in the Uttara Kanda, a section of the ramayana that is considered by many to not be authentic. In other sections, one great devotee of Rama, Guha, born of Non-Brahmin caste was said to be a great devotee.

http://www.nyganeshtemple.org/relarticles/rt_Guha.htm

Raj2004 09:46, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

No problem, Raja and thanks for your compliments.

Raj2004 23:59, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Christian missionary reports

Raja, what is the name of the references you have for these page numbers. We need to place the full title, publisher, city of publication, and year of publication. These should all be at the front of the reference. Thanks, Steven McCrary 21:20, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Thank-you for the reference. I am placing it on the Ayyavazhi in reports by Christian missionaries page. Please note the "Chicago" style of referencing. Questions

1. The Publisher: "G.Patrick (Department of Christian Studies, University of Madras)" is that an individual or a company.
2. Is the author G.Patrick as well?
3. What is ARTDC?

Steven McCrary 22:49, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ARTDC

For ARTDC, if you still have the book, try looking around for the meaning of the abbreviation. It looks like a reference to an earlier publication. The reference could be at the beginning of the book, at the end of the book, or in an earlier citation. Steven McCrary 23:13, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

"Annual Report of the Travancore District Committee in Connection with the LMS" Great! Now there should be a complete reference, most likely at the end of the chapter or the end of the book. Again, we need author, title (we have), city of publication, publisher (I believe it would be LMS for London Missionary Society), and year; if more than one, we need all that information on each one of them. Thanks, Steven McCrary 23:32, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

My apologies for the ambiguities! I am very happy that you found the title of the book that goes with the abbreviation (ARTDC). I would like to request further the complete reference to the publisher of that title. It may be with the title, or it may be at the end of the chapter, or the end of the book. I am looking for the

• author,
• title (which I believe we have as Annual Report of the Travancore District Committee in Connection with the LMS),
• city of publication,
• publisher (which I believe is the LMS for London Missionary Society), and
• year.

If there is more than one Annual Report cited, we need all of the information listed above on each one of those reports.

Thanks,

Steven McCrary 23:51, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Very nice user page!

Good work, I like it alot, very impressive.

Thank you for your compliments, and many contributions,

¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 22:36, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ayya Vaikundar

Yes, Raja I think you are correct.

Raj2004 16:45, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Karma in Hinduism

Raja, thanks for the article on kosas. see my revised article on Karma in Hinduism.

Raja, amala means without any stain of evil. Thus, it means God is goodness itself.

Raj2004 21:13, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

No, the view of Advaita is the one expressed by Swami Sivananda, an Advaita scholar and is the same as the Hindu view of karma. God has a role in karma. The article states the following: Swami Sivananda, in his commentary synthesizing Vedanta views on the Brahma Sutras, also reiterates the same views. In his commentary on Chapter 3, Phaladhikaranam, Topic 8, Sutras 38-41, of Brahma Sutras, Sivananda notes that karma is insentient and short-lived, and ceases to exist as soon as it is done. Hence, he points out that karma cannot therefore bestow the fruits of actions at a future date according to one's merit. Furthermore, Sivananda notes that one cannot argue that karma generates apurva, or punya, which gives fruit. Since apurva is non-sentient, it cannot act unless moved by an intelligent Being, i.e., God. Hence, it cannot independently bestow rewards and punishments.

There's a passage from Swami Sivananda's translation of the Svetasvatara Upanishad (4:6) illustrating this:

"Two birds of beautiful plummage who are inseparable friends, dwell upon one and the same tree. Of these two the one eats the sweet fruit while the other looks on without eating."

In his commentary, the two birds represent the individual soul and Brahman or God. The soul is a reflection essentially of Brahman. The tree represents the body and the soul identifies himself with the body and reaps the fruits of his actions and takes rebirths while the Lord alone stands a eternal witness, ever contented, and does not eat for He is the director of both the eater and the eaten.

Swami Sivananda, also notes that God is free from charges of partiality and cruelty which are brought against Him owing to the social inequality, fate of various persons, and universal suffering in the world. According to the Brahma Sutras, a Vedantic text, it is individual souls that are responsible for their fate and God is the dispenser and witness with reference to the merit and demerit of souls.

In his commentary on Chapter 2, Adhikarana XII, Sutras 34-36 from his translation and commentary of Brahma Sutras, Sivananda further notes that the position of God with respect to karma can be analogized to rain. He notes that although rain can be said to be a common cause of rice, barley and other plants, the differences in various species is due to the diverse potentalities lying hidden in the respective seeds. Thus, Sivananda further explains that the differences between classes of beings are due to different merits belonging to individual souls. He concludes that God metes rewards and punishments only in consideration of the specific actions of beings. [edit]

Hindu scriptures on mitigation of karma by God

No problem. any time.

Raj2004 00:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Short articles

Some of your articles, such as Vattakkotai and Colachel are candidates speedy deletion. If you want new articles you create to be kept, they need to have meaningful content, not just a stub tag. --Mairi 23:53, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kanyakumari Stub

Generally, stub categories need atleast 50 stubs in existance to be created/kept (see Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion), which this falls well short of. Perhaps a TamilNadu-stub would have enough articles instead? (in which case it ought to be proposed on Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals before being created) --Mairi 01:59, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vivekananda

Raja, that's fine. where did you get the reference? That's great. This would show Vivekenanda was a indirect disciple of Shri Ayya Vaikundar!

Raj2004 00:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Raja, sorry for the delay. You can put in the reference but please provide the name of the publisher.

That would suffice.

Is there a bookstore that carries this book?

Raj2004 00:27, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

You may want to include an ISBN number. Books often have ISBN numbers that publishers recognize.

Here's the definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN

ISBN number helps further strengthen credibility. You seem like a honest person but many are not. They may make up a title of a book, even if it does not exist, and use it as a reference.

Raj2004 00:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

That's fine. Raja, then just include the publisher.

Raj2004 09:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Raja, I don't understand what these terms mean: the Marmavidya in Sidha vidya and ghecherividya (Chinmudra) from Ayya Vaikundar. Atmanada Swamikal further taught all these vidyas to his disciple, Sri Chattampi Swamikal. When Swami Vivekananda was arrived in Ernakulam, Sri Chattampi Swamikal taught this Chinmudra to him.

Please translate all the bold black items into English. Great addition to the article, Vivekenanda.

Raj2004 20:29, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Raja, yesterday, I didn't realize those unknown terms as I was more focused on Shri Ayya Vaikundar's influence on Vivekananda! That impressed me.

I think leave as it is. See if you can translate or ask someone in the ayyavazhi community who can translate what those terms mean. They seem to be Sanskrit.

Raj2004 20:59, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Millennial Wikipedians

Category:Millennial Wikipedians has been listed on categories for deletion. Since you are using it on your user page please weigh in on the vote and that of the other generational categories here. Thanks. -JCarriker 20:49, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Pechiparai.jpg

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[edit] Image tags

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[edit] Your message....

Thank you for the apology! Alr 22:43, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] 2 notes

I have left a note @ Talk:Swami_Vivekananda#The_Ayyavazhi_connection. Also I have written a short article on a Tamil man, Christie Jayaratnam Eliezer, and I am wondering if you can read it, and write something if you know of him. Sam Spade 14:03, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, and please don't feel obligated to edit the article if you don't know the man, I only hope you'll have a look.

Now, NPOV is the #1 rule of the wikipedia, see m:Foundation issues. NPOV means we must be fair, citing verifiable opinions. If there are too many opinions, we keep the most well known and important, and lose some from smaller and less expert sources. So, for example, if we write about President Bush, we can't say he is a good man, or a bad man, we can only say facts, and give quotes from what experts think. The experts however CAN have an opinion (this is important ;) . POV is the opposite, it is our opinion. We should always try to keep our own opinion out of the article, and instead quote some expert. A perfect example is @ Swami Vivekananda. Instead of saying "he wears the turban because of Ayyavazhi" you gave the name of Dr. Poulose, and showed this to be HIS belief. That is NPOV, and proper. If someone doesn't agree, they can find their own expert, and show how his belief may be different, but they can't simply say it is wrong, because that is not neutral, instead it is POV.

Please feel free to ask any questions I am glad to explain this, and it is very important!

Sam Spade 12:07, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Glad to help, have a look @ Sampooranathevan, and see if I made any mistakes. There is nothing wrong with saying "many Ayyavazhi believe he was inspired to wear the turban by his visit to Swamithope Pathi". If someone does not believe you, and wants proof that some Ayyavazhi believe this, maybe the book by mr. polouse may work, or you can find some other citation. Cheers, Sam Spade 20:49, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] idw

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[edit] Sampooranathevan

see edit and talk on Sampooranathevan. thanks, Steven McCrary 14:17, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

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Additionally, it is now listed as a possible copyright violation. If you have evidence that the copyright holder has given permission for this image to be used in a manner compatible with Wikipedia, please indicate so. —Bkell 23:03, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Image:Earth-08-june.gif has also been nominated. Superm401 | Talk 22:28, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

And Image:Earth-09-june.gif. Superm401 | Talk 22:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

And any other unused rotating Earth images you may have. Superm401 | Talk 22:38, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pantheism

Please see Talk:Pantheism#Ayyavazhi. Cheers, Sam Spade 01:18, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

I made a comment @ Talk:Pantheism#Ayyavazhi, and made edits to Venneesan, Arul Nool and Thirumal in Thiruvananthapuram. Cheers, Sam Spade 22:00, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the articles. I will take a look.

Raj2004 01:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

In the rules and regulations,

I do not understand, "Do not accept offerings of Scandals, garlands, etc." what does scandals mean?

Raj2004 13:52, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Raja, thanks for the clarification.

Raj2004 13:55, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Tatvas

This article was very well done, I am impressed. Your english is noticeably improving. Do you use any instant messengers? Skill improves with usage. Have a look at User:Sam_Spade/Contact, I use several. Cheers, Sam Spade 21:23, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Religious symbols

Please see Talk:Human#Religious_symbols. Cheers, Sam Spade 17:02, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Don't re-upload images

I've deleted Image:Button-01-june.gif, Image:Welcome-15-june.gif, and Image:New-06-june.gif again. Don't upload them again, unless you're willing to provide the source. Also, note that "fair use" pictures can only be used in articles, not on user pages. dbenbenn | talk 15:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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This is a really nice image, and if you have a source please tell us. I would hate to see it deleted. If you scanned it you can tag it as a magazine/publication cover for fair use. gren グレン 12:48, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I fixed it a little. You were right to add fair use, but we have template:book cover that covers it more specifically and gives reasoning. I also removed the "no source" so that someone doesn't accidentally delete it. Nice image. :) gren グレン 12:05, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

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Please provide a source for the same image at wikinews. If its free please upload it to commmons. Happy Editing.[[n:user:bawolff] 23:22, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Seven Logas

Raja, the Seven Logas is a stub, for sure. I do not see a good reason to have a separate page, right now, for each loga. Even if you decide to expand each loga, there should be some short explanation of each one on the Seven Logas page.

General suggestion: when writing your pages, start with a general introduction of the meaning of the word. Not a dictionary meaning, but a general concise statement about the page. In other words, what are the Seven Loga? Assume the reader knows little about your religion or about your part of the world.

By the way, is a loga and a yukam the same thing?

Hope these comments help. Steven McCrary 14:54, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Kaliyan

see comments at Talk:Kaliyan Steven McCrary 15:17, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Isn't Kalimayai the same being as Kaliyan? If so, they should be combined. Steven McCrary 15:20, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New additions

Excellent additions, Raja I made some minor changes.

Raj2004 01:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

when you mean Nantheesurar in the Kaliyan article, is that the same as Nandi?

Thanks, Raj2004 01:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Raja

[edit] View of Vedas

Raja, view of Vedas as the books of perfection from Ayyavazhi is not so different in Hinduism. I added that view in your section, But this view of the Vedas is not inconsistent with Hinduism's views. In Hinduism, the Vedas are viewed as Shruti, or primary scripture, while other scriptures such as Ramayana are viewed as Smriti or secondary scripture.

Hope this helps.

Raj2004 14:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Same belief as Hinduism. Vedas are eternal and authorless.

Raj2004 20:13, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

But in Hinduism, there is no substantial difference between Ekam/Nirguna Brahman and Saguna Brahman.

Saguna Brahman is simply God with form. Lord Krishna states in Chapter 12, that worshiping Him as Nirguna Brahman is more difficult for the embodied form:

Arjuna states: "There are Thy ever-steadfast devotees who love and worship Thee in the above way (as the Divine Person); there are again others who contemplate on Thee as the Imperishable Unmanifest (Impersonal Absolute) , i.e., Ekam, - which of these has a greater understanding of Yoga?"

The Blessed Lord said:

2. Those I consider as the most perfect in Yoga, who, with their minds fixed intently on Me in steadfast love, worship Me with absolute faith.

3-4. Those who are devoted to the Imperishable (the Impersonal Absolute) - who is the firm support of the world and is also undefinable, unmanifested, transcendent, motionless, eternal and all-pervading, - even they reach Me alone, striving with their senses controlled, and with mind tranquillised and set on the welfare of all.

5. The obstacles facing those devoted to the Impersonal Absolute are far greater; for the way of any unclear ideal is difficult for an embodied being (the body-centred man) to understand or follow. 6-7. But, O son of Pritha, soon will I lift from this ocean of death-bound worldly existence, those whose minds are ever set on Me - those who abandon to Me the fruits of all their actions together with the sense of agency thereof, and who worship Me,...."

Also, not all avatars are worshipped. please see Avatar#Types of avatars. Also even Rama does not have temples of His own unlike Krishna. Most temples in Vaishnavism are dedicated to Vishnu, who in Vaishnavism, is both Ekam and Saguna Brahman.

Raj2004 20:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Raja, however, the view of impersonal Absolute being supreme in AyyaVazhi is the same as Advaitaschool of Hinduism. Advaita, like Ayyavazhi calls Nirguna Brahman the higher brahman in contrast to Saguna Brahman. It may be different in other schools of Hinduism. No, I think the relationship of ayyavazhi is more similar to the relationship between Mormonism and Christianity. Mormonism, like Christianity, and unlike Judaism, accepts Jesus but has its own unique theology and mythology that is different from the Bible. These stories are told in the Book of Mormon.

Raj2004 23:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks again for all the answers to my questions.

Raj2004 23:58, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Schools of Hinduism

Please See web site discussing schools of Hinduism, question#7 http://www.ssvt.org/Education/Hinduism%20FAQ.asp#What%20is%20the%20role%20of%20caste%20in%20Hinduism?

[edit] Bahai

Raja, what do you think of the Bahai faith? Like Ayyavazhi, it tries to reconcile earlier religions. from wikipedia, "Bahá'ís believe in a process of progressive revelation recognising the major religions' founders including Adam, Noah, Zoroaster (Zarathustra), Krishna, Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. Like Muslims, Bahá'ís interpret religious history in terms of a series of prophetic dispensations. Each prophet, or Manifestation, brings a somewhat broader and more advanced revelation for the time and place it appeared in. Unlike Muslims, Bahá'ís do not believe that this process of progressive revelation has an end."

Raj2004 02:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Bahullah is not God but only a prophet but Bahai does not have the unique mythology as ayyavazhi does.

Raj2004 23:48, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi

No, I respectfully disagree. Raja as a Hindu, I can accept Ayya Vaikundar as an avatar of Sriman Narayana. It is not unknown in Hinduism that he is an avatar. The exact number of avatars can only be known by Narayana. As Shri Krishna said in the Gita: “For the protection of the good, for destruction of evil, and for the establishment of righteousness, I come into being from age to age.” (Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4, verse 8.) Only Sriman Narayana knows His avatars. I do not. As such, as a Hindu, I can readily accept him as an avatar. In even contemporary times, some Hindus even consider Sai Baba as an avatar of Shiva.

Furthermore, ayyavazhi's beliefs are so similar to advaita just its mythology is unique. Like Hindus, ayyavazhi followers recognize the Vedas but consider it now corrupted and rely on a new scripture. Mormons, like Christians recognize the Bible but also recognize another scripture, the Book of Mormon, a new mythology , which Christians do not acknowledge. Thus, the relationship between Hindus and ayyavazhi is like the relationship between mormonism and hinduism. With Judaism, they completely do not recognize Jesus as a messiah and are still awaiting for one. Hindus, on the other hand, believe God incarantes many times and a hindu can perfectly accept ayya vaikunt is one of the avatars.

Raj2004 00:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

This a relevant passage fronm the ishta deva article:

The Hare Krishna/ISKCON, organization, which is part of the traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism denomination would accord Shiva the status of a demigod rather than another equivalent aspect of Krishna. However, there is a controversy about whether ISKCON is indeed part of Hinduism or whether the organization is outside mainstream Hinduism. Some even consider ISKCON to be a cult. They, unlike Vaishnavite denominations consider Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to be an avatar of Krishna but worship Krishna, like many traditional Hindu adherents, as their preferred Ishta-Deva.

Other new religious movements related to Hinduism (see Contemporary Hindu movements), many of them cults, have more contentious views, including a tendency in modern times to place their guru as ishta-deva. This is of course an unpopular view both in the minds of orthodox Hindus, as well with outsiders who often misunderstand this phenomenon as a tendency common within Hinduism.

Swami Tapasyananda of Ramakrishna Mission, on commentating about this phenomenon, said:

The avatar doctrine has been excessively abused by many Hindus today and we have the strange phenomenon of every disciple of a sectarian Guru claiming him to be an avatar. Christianity has therefore limited the Divine Incarnation as an one-time phenomenon. The theory has strong points and equally strong defects but it surmounts the gross abuse of the doctrine indulged in by many Hindus.

Raj2004 00:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

ayya vaikunt can't be told in Hinduism because the exact number of avatars is only known by Sriman Narayana. we humans cannot ever know. Hinduism is an old and flexible religion and can't be subject to such dogma. There are very few no's in Hinduism. There are some core beliefs in Hinduism,

"Our beliefs determine our thoughts and attitudes about life, which in turn direct our actions. By our actions, we create our destiny. Beliefs about sacred matters--God, soul and cosmos--are essential to one's approach to life. Hindus believe many diverse things, but there are a few bedrock concepts on which most Hindus concur. The following nine beliefs, though not exhaustive, offer a simple summary of Hindu spirituality.

see: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/basics/nineb/

Raj2004 00:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Mormonism, like Christianity, and unlike Judaism, accepts Jesus but has its own unique theology and mythology that is different from the Bible. These stories are told in the Book of Mormon. Similarly, ayyavazhi accepts the Godheads of Hinduism and Nirguna Brahman but has unique new mythology that is different from Hinduism.

Raj2004 00:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Raja, no problem about the award. As I read it now, the relationship between ayyavazhi and hinduism is more complex than I thought. Neither analogy (Mormonism and Christianity or Christianity and Judaism works. I think most of the beliefs of ayyavazhi is very close to advaita but has unique mythology like mormonism.

Unlike Judaism, we cannot reject Vaikunda as an avatar because as I said before, the exact number of avatars is only known by Sriman Narayana. Judaism rejects Christ altogether. Hinduism, on the other hand, can accept Vaikunda as an avatar as the exact number of avatars is only known by God. so the relationship comparing Judaism to Hinduism is not accurate. I respectfully disagree,

At the same time, you yourself states that Vishnu Purana hints at Vaikunda as an avatar. so some Hindus can interpret such verses as showing support.

Thanks for the explanatuion on Dharma neekam.

Raj2004 00:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dharma Neetham

What does Dharma Neetham mean, Raja in the Kaliyan article?

Thanks, Raj2004 17:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dharma and Vivekendana

Raja, I added this sentence, "It is interesting to note that the great Indian saint, Swami Vivekananda applied this principle of Ayyavazhi dharma concept in practice and may lead support to some followers of Ayyavazhi who claim that he was influenced by the reliigion."

This section from the Viveknanda article remarkly evokes ayyavazhi dharma concept: "One of his most important contributions was to demonstrate how Advaitin thinking is not merely philosophically far-reaching, but how it also has social, even political, consequences. One important lesson he claimed to receive from Ramakrishna was that "Jiva is Shiva " (each individual is divinity itself). This became his Mantra, and he coined the concept of daridra narayana seva - the service of God in and through (poor) human beings. If there truly is the unity of Brahman underlying all phenomena, then on what basis do we regard ourselves as better or worse, or even as better-off or worse-off, than others? - This was the question he posed to himself. Ultimately, he concluded that these distinctions fade into nothingness in the light of the oneness that the devotee experiences in Moksha. What arises then is compassion for those "individuals" who remain unaware of this oneness and a determination to help them. "

Raj2004 00:34, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Raja, I agree. Raj2004 00:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Raja Raj2004 02:34, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cycles and Yugas

Raja,according to one of the web sites, you state that the cycles in ayyavazhi is linear while in Hinduism, it is cyclic.

According to one of ayyavazhi web sites you mentioned, the cycles you mentioned in ayyavazhi is cyclic as well:

"It is Kalanemi/Kroni who approaches to destroy Dharma and righteousness in every yuga. From far away in Patala loka, he approaches nearer and nearer and finally at the end of Kali-yuga, God destroys him and throws him again far away and the satya yuga starts. These cycles (of chathur yugas) repeat continuously. Only the names and forms of Kalanemi may be different in different yuga cycles."

so I am not sure if your statement is true.

Raj2004 00:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Raja, glad to hear that by many ayyavazhi scholars, Kali yuga will permanently come to an end. But this site states the opposite:

http://www.vaikunt.org/AyyaVaikuntar/index.htm Click on "Ayya's Later Years", scroll down to Kalenemi and click on Kalenemi

Raj2004 00:30, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Raja, thanks for the clarification. I was little confused when I read that site. So I guess the web site is wrong.

Thanks a lot!

Raj2004 02:00, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Ayyavazhi

Raja, I don't understand. Which subheading are you referring to: Dualism in Ayyavazhi or Identity of Ayyavazhi?

Raj2004 00:08, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Image Tagging Image:Gandhi.jpg

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[edit] Ayyavazhi#Phenomenology

Is this true, that so many people are misunderstanding ayyavazhai? Sam Spade 23:52, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

sorry, I was away. I made some changes. I do not understand this statement: some denominations strongly advocate moksha, the personal liberation though it was hard to be belived as stated in Akilam. I thought moksha is advocated in ayyavazhi?

Raj2004 23:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC) Thanks, Raja Raj2004 23:09, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requesting help on the forgiveness article

Vaikunda Raja and Raj2004- I would like to ask both of you to help out on the Forgiveness article by adding to the Hinduism section. I am out of my element here, so I need a knowledgeable eye. You guys seem to have a good rapport and I bet you could take it form here. Thank you for anything you can add. --speet 23:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Raja, no need to add anything more. if you have an ayyavazhi perspective on forgiveness, please add.

Raj2004 23:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Greetings, the holi-hangover continues! --Bhadani 07:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Never be sorry! It was fine. --Bhadani 17:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You are most welcome - my reply is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bhadani#Help_Request --Bhadani 15:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request Help

Sam, will you don't feel difficult Can you help me by bringing to my knowledge any users who can translate the Ayyavazhi article to other world major Languages. - Vaikunda Raja 19:14, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Try some of these links:

• Wikipedia:Translators available

• Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English

• Wikipedia:Translation into English

• Wikipedia:Contributing to articles outside your native language

Cheers, Sam Spade 20:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

sorry, Raja, I don't know. I was going to ask you to contact Sam Spade, but you have already done that. I am glad to know that Sam knows EVERYTHING about wikipedia.

Raj2004 01:30, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

XD What I don't know about the wiki is why more users arn't nice like you 2 are, have a look at User_talk:Sam_Spade#Mahavatar_Babaji or talk:human. Why do some people think the internet allows them to be rude? I wish I knew a better way to encourage people to be nicer... Sam Spade 11:03, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

excellennt work on the portal, Raja!

Raj2004 00:36, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Muttirikkinaru.jpg

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[edit] Ayyavazhi

I thought that you wanted it to be translated in Hindi for some other use. I am sorry that I misunderstood the point - I will try to do whatever is possible to do by me. Please remain in touch. Ok. --Bhadani 16:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Payan Chella Raj.jpg

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Thanks for the response. Vaikunda Raja, if you are able to find the copyright holder of the image, then please get copyright information. If no, then please let it be deleted as previous one because without source as well as copyright information, an image can not be used here because it may be a copyright violation. Regards, Shyam ^(T/C) 21:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Langar

Raja, the concept of Anna dhanam seems similar to the Sikh concept of Langar.

What do you say?

Raj2004 02:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Raja, thanks for answering my question. I thought they were the same but wanted to ask your opinion.

Regards,

Raj2004 00:50, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About Local Holiday in Thoothukudi

I have given the Hindu report (with link) which says that March 4th was a local holiday. I did not earlier realise that there were a lot of followers. Keep in touch Doctor Bruno 17:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yes

Yes, I will try to do something. Thanks. --Bhadani 09:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Template:Indiancopyright

The template Template:Indiancopyright is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Indiancopyright. Please justify.--Victor.P.Das 08:46, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for justifying. The result of the debate was no consensus, kept. I think the template ought to be more flexible in terms of "all rights reserved", maybe "some rights reserved" tag. This needs more specific tagging, which Wiki does't have. Thanks. --Victor.P.Das 20:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yes sure

Yes sure. Thanks for the message. --Bhadani 10:05, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vicipaedia Latina

Although the rules are less strikt on the Latin Wikipedia, the people are not really happy with articles in foreign languages ... ;-) I think you should start with just a few sentences. If someone is interested in the topic, he can use the interwiki links (if you provide some). You can use {{maxcorrigenda}} if you are not sure about your Latin or you can do it like others did and ask in the taberna if someone wants to "spend" some Latin sentences on the topic. The article is rather long and there are not so many people who are even capable of doing such a translation. I think you should make a Latin stub and not copy an article from a foreign Wikipedia. Maybe they will tolerate the English text for some time but I fear nobody will do the translation and after some time the article will be silently deleted. This can take weeks or even months, however, I fear it will happen. The level for stubs is not so high in the Latin WP and I think you would manage it to start a Latin stub. Just try it. ;-) --Roland2 19:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

I don't feel that my knowledge of Ayyavazhi or of religion in general is good enough to translate the article to any language. I just don't feel that I would do a good enough job. Aelfthrytha 00:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Padma2.jpg

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[edit] Ayyavazhi on it.wiki

Hi, I'm an italian contributor of italian wikipedia and of the it.wiki religion project. We noticed that you added Ayyavazhi in the religion template.This causes some problems since the template is growing bigger every day: we tend to include only major religion in it and to create new template for minor religion movement or for churches that belong to a religion movement. In that sense we guess that Ayyavazhi should be included in Hindu template.
If you want to help us with Ayyavazhi or any other religion related articles you are welcome. Leave a message here to plan with the group what you would like to do. If you prefer to write in english I can translate you messages for the community.
You can find me here
Enjoy. Tinette 07:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] citations

Raja, don't get me wrong, I don't have any prejudice against any religion. However, your articles lack any kind of sources/citations/references from independent/established sources. Please add them. Otherwise, it would appear to be original research. I suggest you look into the fact tags I added and provide citations appropriately. Thanks. --Ragib 08:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Raja, I agree with Ragib. Can you add citations for all your articles?

Thanks,

Raj2004 10:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Raja, that's an excellent start! Whenever possible, please add references. For example, in the Ayyavazhi mythology article, please cite the chapter or verse from which the line from the holy books. For example, one line states, "In order to quell the ravenous hunger in his stomach, Kroni drank all of the waters of the sea. With these waters being insufficient, he swallowed Kailayam, the abode of Sivan (the Tamil name for Shiva), and then proceeded to devour the entire universe." Please cite the verse from the holy book, Akilattirattu Ammanai, for example. We need citations, when available and if possible. I understand that it is not always possible.

Thanks!

Raj2004 04:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Raja, just cite the verse.

Raj2004 11:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Raja, I am sorry people are so harsh on you. They shouldn't be. They do have a point in citing verifiable references for what you write. Ayyavazhi is not hero stone worship and they don't obviously appreciate the intellectual complexity of the religion. Since ayyavazhi is a small religion, people are more demanding. The less a religion is known, the more citations they want, unlike larger religions like Christianity.

Also, people have been harsh because people have been writing a lot of garbage in the Hinduism articles without verification. They want the same in ayyavazhi.

Raj2004 13:50, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kudos

Hi,

Excellent job on Ayyavazhi-related articles! I had very little exposure to this stream of faith before, and I found the new articles very informative. Keep up the good work :) Chancemill 11:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bahai faith

Raja, what does ayyavazhi think about Bahá'í Faith. This faith recognizes early great figures in Hinduism, Christianity and Islam.

Raj2004 02:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC) Raja, thanks for the clarification. That was very helpful. Even Smartas who follow Advaita philosophy like ayyavazhi consider the Vedas to be supreme and consider scriptures such as the Puranas secondary. They consider the inconsistencies in the Puranas but try to see some reasoning behind it. see http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part14/chap9.htm

Raj2004 23:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Will you listen ever?

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with you and your POV pushing. It's stressing valuable contributors by having to revert your POV additions to articles like Menstrual cycle, where a mention of Ayyavazhi imputes a significant notability, which it doesn't have. I thing you mistook my commendation on your mentioning some books to be an endorsement of your view and a retraction of my comments made here. Let me say that I still stand by them and if you engage in any further pushing, I'll need to seek administrative action. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 05:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I see that you've blanked your userpage. If you're leaving because of my above comments, I'm sorry about that. You should understand that we're not opposed to articles and categories related to Ayyavazhi, but only against mentions in remotely relevant pages. For example, Ayyavazhi views on menstruation can be a section in the Ayyavazhi philosophy article, but adding a section in Menstrual cycle article for Ayyavazhi is going overboard. Please understand the distinction which Impumozhi has neatly summarised in his comment at Talk:India#Adding Ayyavazhi and contribute respecting Wikipedia's policies. Please also know that Ayyavazhi mentions have been reinserted into Tirunelveli and List of religions after they were wrongly removed. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 07:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging Image:Ayya Vishnu.jpg

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[edit] Help in Ayyavazhi article for it.wiki

Yes, I can. I started to translate the Ayyavazhi article several days ago, but stopped due to religion portal work (redesign, and others). Please let me know in wich way can I be of help? --Tinette 13:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] anti Brahmins

Raja, I am confused about some of your statements about Brahmins: I have come to intimidate the veta Brahmins."[30] Another statement of the same kind is found in Thingal Patham which says, "Those who wear a tuft (Brahmins) will not remain on this earth any longer". Main teachings of Ayya Vaikundar I agree that some Brahmins were bad but to generalize all Brahmins as bad is not correct. At the same time, in another article, at the same time, in you seem to regard good Brahmins with regard: "All the Devas, chiranjeevin sages, and the brahmins, those who read scriptures all accepted this and so Sivan decided to create Kaliyan." and " Hearing this, Sivan assebled, Vasishta Guru of Govuha, Devas of Deiva Loga," Vasishtha was a Brahmin guru.

I am confused. God does not care about what caste you are so long as you have bhakti. Krishna loved Sudama, a Brahmin devotee and Kanaka Dasa, a person of "Non-Brahmin caste" because they had bhakti.

Raj2004 00:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ayya Vaikunda on it.wiki

Dear friend, I've seen your message. I'm not sure I've understood where I have to answer you back: your tamil page is absolutely unsable for me, bacause of the not-western types. I was translating the article Ayya Vaikunda and, if you agree, I can finish it. Why dont'you open a page on it.wiki? Maybe it could be simpler for both you and me :))) Bye. --Tinette 10:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (يافالي Ayyavazhi article on ar.wiki

Dear Friend. I am real sorry, but our voting system works on providing good reasons, we don't just count votes. The article in its form is meaningless. We usually erase such articles on the spot, but we were looking to see if some one is welling to rewrite the article. If no one answers in 10 days, then it will be deleted. --Tarawneh 18:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Swamithoppe_Kodi-yetru_Thirunal.jpg

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[edit] Reply to [1]

My skills in Hindi are ok (in reading/writing , my speaking is not so great) but the problem is that I do not have a Hindi keyboard so I have to copy+paste every letter. Perhaps you should contact User:DaGizza, he is more active on Hindi wikipedia. If you need something translated from Hindi, I can probably do that. Hindi isn't my native language, Tamil is, but I cant read/write Tamil.Bakaman _Bakatalk 19:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Swamithoppe Kodi-yetru Thirunal.jpg)

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[edit] Image:Narayana Vaikundar.JPG

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[edit] Image:Logo of Excel Pearls School.png listed for deletion

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[edit] Untagged image

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[edit] Nizhal Thangals

Hai, I've heared that there are many Thangals in Kanyakumari which are more than 100 years old. Can you give a list of some of them from the western parts of Kanyakumari District? (West to Thaucklay) - ==> SaffronWhiteGreen 21:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:The_Ayyavazhi_logo.png listed for deletion

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[edit] You're invited to join WikiProject Dravidian Civilizations

Hello,

I see that you have created and contributed to the Ayyavazhi and Kanyakumari pages and would like to take the opportunity to invite you to join our group. WikiProject Dravidian Civilizations does not actually fall under a single country but several in South Asia. It will also cover everything from religions, ethnicities, history, arts, and more. Your contributiond are needed in promoting the vast diversities of faiths, ethnicities, and cutlures of the Dravidian Civilizations. If you are interested in joining this group please log on to Wikipedia:WikiProject Dravidian civilizations and post your name under the Members section. I look forward to hearing from you. Much regards. Wiki Raja 10:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:Akilattirattu Ammanai.jpg

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[edit] religion

can you tell me what is religion stephen

[edit] vaikunda

plz send your reply to steeb_stephen@yahoo.com kolvel

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