Talk:St. Augustine, Florida

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216.240.0.28 edited the article to change the phrase, "is the oldest" to "claims to be the oldest". This wording insinuates that St. Augustine is not the oldest continually occupied European settlement in the United States, or that there is no proof that it is. Barring some evidence to the contrary, St. Augustine is the oldest continually occupied European settlement in the territory of the United States. When a claim has no opposition and can be supported by fact, it simply is... it doesn't "claim to be". NamcoFL 04:52, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Ramparts 2 Wikify 3 Oldest? 4 Childersburg, AL 5 Faulty Image? 6 Tom Petty in St. Augustine??? 7 Older continuously-inhabited American Indian cities in the USA [?] 8 Oldest Schoolhouse 9 Fair use rationale for Image:Staugustineseal.jpg 10 Corrupt City 11 Barry Barnett, Notable Resident?

[edit] Ramparts

Word on the street is that St. Augustine has the only surviving ramparts in the United States. Anyone kknow if it's true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.41.163.240 (talk) 21:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikify

I think this page needs to be Wikified - there probably are plenty of items in the article that can be linked, but I'm not familiar enough to do it. --Bubba73 19:45, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Oldest?

Hi. I've spent most of my life knowing of St. Augustine as the place in what became the United States to have been continuously inhabited by Europeans and their descendants longer than any other place. I've just come across something strange, though, that makes me wonder. If you go to www.desotocavernspark.com and click on "History" at the left and then click on the "Hernando DeSoto & USA's oldest city" subsection (at the left, but not so far left), you'll find these words:

The arrival of Hernando DeSoto and his Spanish expedition in 1540 AD [sic] marked the beginning of recorded history in Alabama. As a matter of fact, Childersburg, the city nearest DeSoto Caverns, is the oldest continuously occupied[-by-Europeans-and-their-descendants] settlement in the U.S., predating St. Augustine by 25 years.

What else do we know about this claim? Is it, indeed, "a matter of fact"? I'm quite curious. President Lethe 03:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Technically, they're both wrong. San Juan, Puerto Rico is older than both those cities, and Puerto Ricans are US citizens. 12.172.37.45 17:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Changed to continental United States for more clarity. -Ebyabe 18:45, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Childersburg, AL

The history of Childersburg tries to build its claim as the oldest settlement: http://childersburg.qscend.com/content/108/default.aspx. However even if it could be proved that Robles and Feryada had descendants (which the article doesn't) there are several flaws with the argument. Any descendants are clearly identified as Indians by the 1832 treaty, and there seems to be no direct continuancy of settlement.The article itself says:

that the site of Coca was noted to be the area in proximity to the present town of Childersburg, Alabama.

That doesnt mean that it was the same settlement, just that the village was close to the present town. To prove continuancy of settlement someone would need to explain the name change at Childersburg at the least. St. Augustine has been continously inhabited by Europeans and thier descendant since its founding. Even at the low point, when the Spanish handed it over the British, at least one Spanish citizen stayed on after the British arrived providing continuancy.

Thanks. It's unusual for me not to do the research myself; but, once in a blue moon, I feel like just asking someone else. I figured there must be a reason for which I'd always heard the St. Augustine claim and never the Childersburg one. ... *Sigh.* Yet another reason to be annoyed about those who run DeSoto Caverns. President Lethe 18:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Faulty Image?

In the image, "St. Augustine in 1760, while under Spanish control," large hills or mountains can be seen in the background. I live in St. John's County, and there are certainly no hills of this size. Is this really an image of St. Augustine?

Artists in that time would often exaggerate details in their paintings. This image is probably an example of this. Akubra 01:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I would just like to say I live in St. John's, and that there are no Mountains anywhere in Florida Kenny51194 01:15, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Petty in St. Augustine???

When did he ever live there? Far as I know, he grew up in Gainesville, then moved to California. A citation of some sort would be nice. --Ebyabe 18:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Tom Petty did, at one time, own a house on the beach in Crescent Beach, some miles south of St. Augustine. On a reasonably regular basis he ate at the "Sonny's" barbecue restaurant in St. Augustine on US 1 South. They used to ask him to sign his bills, which they used to attach to the wall near the cash register. But to the best of my knowledge, as a thirty year resident, he never lived in St. Augustine proper.Annodomini1923 03:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. He owned a place just a tad south of St. Augustine Beach in Crescent. I don't know if he still owns that house or not, but whenever he was in town, you would always hear and endless stream of Tom Petty "sighting" stories. My personal favorite- He and Bob Dylan riding moped scooters into the Lil Champ on A1A South early in the AM. True or not, I don't know, but he and Dylan are known to be pretty tight friends, so it wouldn't be all that outlandish. Anyway, Petty is a "resident" sort of like how Steve Spurrier is a resident; they both own/owned residences here, even though they don't live here full time. --FactsAndHonesty 10:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Older continuously-inhabited American Indian cities in the USA [?]

The article states that St. Augustine, Florida is the oldest continously-inhabited European settlement in the United States of America.

Is the word "European" necessary? As far as I'm aware, the only continuously-inhabited American Indian cities which survive to this day, are located in Mexico and Peru; and not in any U.S. jurisdiction.

I'm not as learned about American Indian history as I would like to be, so if any of you are aware of older American Indian settlements in the USA, please feel free to respond, as it might result in more content, and relevant information for the article.

Pine 18:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

That's a good question. There are certainly claims that towns in what is now the US have in fact been continuously inhabited since pre-European times, for instance Tucson, Arizona, but it's a sketchy distinction - Tucson obviously wasn't called Tucson back then. I think it's best to leave it as "European", since that's an inarguable fact.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

The Hopi village of Oraibi has been continuously inhabited since about 1100 AD, much longer than St. Augustine. Many settlements of the Pueblo peoples in the Southwestern United States have a similarly ancient history. Also, as Cuchullain pointed out, many modern American cities were founded on pre-Columbian settlements. Of course, most have undergone name changes, but not all of them. Onondaga, New York, has a white majority today, but it was once the Iroquois capital. --216.164.136.201 (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Oldest Schoolhouse

is located here?!!! 84.56.11.242 09:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Depending on your definition, yes. :) -Ebyabe 12:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Staugustineseal.jpg

Image:Staugustineseal.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Corrupt City

Why does the Saint Augustine page keep getting edited? Everytime someone posts something about the current battle between local artists and the city commission, it is edited off the site within minutes. If someone is allowed to post information on the City's racial discrimination, why can't someone post an article on the corrupt city commission, the violation of constitutional rights, or the rising homeless population? Buddychrist1 04:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Because it's unsourced original research. The city's civil rights history are well known and documented.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barry Barnett, Notable Resident?

This one kinda borders on self-promotion. Keeping in mind that what constitutes notability isn't simply the threshold of google hits (particularly for a commercial operation where web presence is cultivated) I would like to hear opinions regarding keeping or deleting Barry Barnett as a notable resident. My personal opinion is that he isn't --LoverOfArt 02:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, no objections in over a month- it's removed. --LoverOfArt (talk) 23:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)