Template talk:Olympic Games

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Olympic Games is within the scope of WikiProject Olympics. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Olympics Portal

Template

This non-article page has been rated as Template-Class on the assessment scale.

This non-article page is on a subject of NA priority within inclusion in Wikipedia 1.0.

Olympics To-do:

1 Initial comments
2 Restructuring the template/Usage of the rings
3 Footnotes
4 Table width
5 Confusing layout
6 Olympic rings layout
7 Layout
8 Youth Olympics
- 8.1 Criteria
9 Cities

[edit] Initial comments

To whoever made this, are 1916, 1940, and 1944 Olympic years or War years (and I want the proper answer.) 66.245.95.169 18:18, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

This question has been on for 3 days and it still hasn't been answered. 66.32.64.27 22:02, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

1906 Olympics were official until they were deaccreditted later by the IOC. 1908, 1920 did have Winter Olympic Events in the same vein as the 1924 Winter Olympics. The 1924 Winter Olympics were not Winter Olympics until the IOC retroactively decided to make it so. So, shouldn't they be there?

132.205.45.148 04:30, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Those sorts of details would be well suited to the articles themselves. such as Winter Olympics and 1906 Summer Olympics, however the template is designed for simplicity, and such extra information makes the template less readible/less usable. -- Chuq 04:37, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hopefully, this version is clear.

132.205.45.148 04:53, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It's more clear.. but a bit more bulky.. I'll leave it for a while and see what others think -- Chuq 05:23, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've trimmed the footnotes down a bit. If somebody wants to know the exact details behind each of the disputed or cancelled games, then that information should be in the articles, but the infobox itself is just a navigation aid, and shouldn't stand out on the page. sjorford →•← 11:35, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Restructuring the template/Usage of the rings

I don't think this template should have the Olympic rings on it for these reasons:

Because it violates the fair use agreement with the IOC; and
Because it, frankly, makes the template unappealing.

I suggest restructuring it, maybe deleting the image or atleast making it smaller, and adding a link to the medal counts, as they are important. Also, at the bottom, maybe a navigation thing showing previous, present, and future games. I'll try to come up with my idea and maybe we'll impliment it if enough people think it'd look good. --J @red ^[T]/_[+] 14:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Here is my design. Its not much different, but it adds key elements to the template that are much needed. I created a color and a non-color version of each. I'm not partial to either one over the other:

{{User:JP06035/Olympic_Games}}

Olympic Games Olympic sports Olympic medalists Participating NOCs Olympic symbols Medal counts		Summer Olympic Games 1896, 1900, 1904, 1906¹, 1908, 1912, (1916)², 1920, 1924, 1928, 1932, 1936, (1940)², (1944)², 1948, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012
		Winter Olympic Games 1924, 1928, 1932, 1936, (1940)², (1944)², 1948, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1994, 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010, 2014
		Torino 2006 — Beijing 2008 — Vancouver 2010 — London 2012

{{User:JP06035/Olympic_Games_(no_color)}}

Olympic Games Olympic sports Olympic medalists Participating NOCs Olympic symbols Medal counts		Summer Olympic Games 1896, 1900, 1904, 1906¹, 1908, 1912, (1916)², 1920, 1924, 1928, 1932, 1936, (1940)², (1944)², 1948, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012
		Winter Olympic Games 1924, 1928, 1932, 1936, (1940)², (1944)², 1948, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1994, 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010, 2014
		Torino 2006 — Beijing 2008 — Vancouver 2010 — London 2012

The colored one is kind of neat because is shows yellow for summer, blue for winter, etc. The other is more practical, though, because it is not as much of an eyesore on the page. Feel free to make suggestions or edit the templates above! --J @red ^[T]/_[+] 16:34, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes

Concerning the reasons behind my recent edit [1]: What is the point of having superscript numbers if nobody can see the footnotes when the template is transclused onto articles? Do you really think that the average user or newbie will actually go to the actual template page to see the footnotes that are bracketed with NOINCLUDE tags? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 07:25, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I see your point, but the reason I put the footers on this pages is because it truely makes the template look ugly. Not to mention, the point of the template is not to be a mass of information, but to cram the most links into the smallest space. I am going to revert your edits, but feel free to put that information back into the template if you can find a decent spot for it. I just think that it is not necessary or vital information, and if someone needed to know that badly, I'm sure andone with common sense would either click on the superscript number or on the page itself to read more. Again, feel free to try to reincorperate it if you really think you should and could do so in a good manner. Thanks. → J @red ^talk+ _ubx 20:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Why are the footnotes at the top on the template page? Brian Jason Drake 06:59, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I originally had them at the bottom, but when I went to test out the link, both the <sup[1] and the <sup[2] linked to the same spot on the page because of the fact that the page is so short. I moved them to the top thinking that it would make it actually go to the right links, but it didn't work, because the page is still too short. Feel free to move them to the bottom, then, if you think it would be better. → J @red ^talk+ _ubx 20:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it is more useful to include footnotes within the actual template like for example on Template:Countries of Europe, it is faster to read then in the tamplate than go to the tamplate page, read it and then go back to the article. Cpt.Miller (talk) 12:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Table width

Somebody just changed the table width from 75% to 76%. What different does this make? Brian Jason Drake 08:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

When I did that, it actually made the template so that it didn't go onto additional rows. It didn't dawn on me until after that it's probably only my computer that'll show it like that because other computers show different resolutions, have different browsers, whatever. So really, it probably makes little to no difference on anyone else's computer. → J @red 14:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing layout

The way this template is set up, it looks like it's categorizing Athens '04 and Torino '06 as "Future" games... --zenohockey 01:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Olympic rings layout

I am personally against the current arrangement and colour of "Sports • Medal counts • NOCs • Medalists • Symbols". Among the reasons:

Layout should be dictated by usability and should be consistent throughout WP. In any case it should not driven by the subject matter.
This layout will oppose resistance to adding a sixth category, or maybe it already includes an arbitrary fifth link.
It looks unprofessional and it creates a precedent. Should we arrange the template about Christianity in a cross? And the Nazi template in a swastika?

Hopefully acceptable username 11:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Personally I don't believe there is anything wrong with it. Many templates just have random links strewn across the template because there is no logical way to sequence them. In this way, we have a neat way to lay out the only links we'll ever have, and it is appropriate to the subject matter. Most other pages with years have extra links, and only coincidentally does ours make a unique pattern out of the links. As well, our de facto colors for the Olympics have been blue and a lighter blue (see the wikiproject), which we have carried out to our template. Would this mean that everyone should have the same color box with the same specifications? Certainly not. In short, if you would like to arrange the Christianity box in the shape of a cross, do so; the fact is, though, that the Olympics is totally different than a religion, and an interesting, space-conservative group of links to important pages here in the shape of an image we cannot use because of copyright restrictions allows us to make our template more appropriate to the subject matter.

Therefore, I move to keep it present. _└^Jared_┘^┌_t^┐ 19:27, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Layout

Somehow, I think it would make sense if the "above" and "below" sections of the template were merged into one. I made Template:Olympic Games/above hoping that I could just easily transclude it into the "above =" section of the template, but apparently that isn't allowed. I think that layout is good, though, and doesn't waste space. I'm just not sure how to do it. Jared (t) 17:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Youth Olympics

User:Andrwsc has taken it upon himself to repeatedly [2][3][4] remove the 2010 Youth Olympic Games from this template after their inclusion by three different editors, citing the YOG as "not "full" Games" as a reason. This is, to me, a POV by a single wikipedian, and I do not find it appriopriate for any wikipedian to see himself in a position to actually value-judge an event this way without concensus.--Huaiwei (talk) 05:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The bottom row of this navbox has been twiddled with endlessly in the ~2 years it has been on my watchlist. Do we just show the most recent two Games and next two Games, or more? Or less? Do we add the Youth Games or not? etc. etc. It's annoying to see so many changes, and that's why I've been trying to keep some consistency. Since it is a wholly redundant subset of the main list of links, perhaps it is now time to put it out of its misery and drop it from the navbox. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 06:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

It is in wikipedia's interests that its contents are being "twiddled" with all the time, so I find it odd that this should become reason to remove content altogether. Get the community to agree on what goes in and what goes out, and end the disputes from there. I do not consider them redundant, since there will invariably be much higher international attention paid to recent and upcoming editions of these games.--Huaiwei (talk) 07:02, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Well yeah, that was the original concept – highlight the most "popular" links only, reflecting the higher attention. The template used to only include the most recent two Games (one each winter & summer) and the next upcoming two Games (again, one each winter & summer) until people started throwing all sort of extra stuff in there, reflecting their personal bias. First came the British, who insisted that 2012 be redundantly linked too. Next came the Sochi supporters. And now we have the Singapore supporters. It totally loses the purpose of that extra set of links to make that list too long, don't you think? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 07:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The point to stress here is that concensus can change and that what has been done before may not neccesarily be better. The fact will remain that plenty of publicity will be generated in any bidding activity, and once the bid is over, the winning city will come under intense scrutiny by many quarters until the games itself. Simply observe what happens after Beijing wins the bid for 2008, London for 2012, Sochi, and now Singapore. It is also presumptious to assume that there will be "XXX supporters" insisting on adding entries for particular cities, unless you are suggesting User:Hektor is a Singapore supporter[5]. Just who defines the purpose of this template? You, or the community?--Huaiwei (talk) 07:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

May I also point out that I am quite shocked that an Administrator like Andrwsc can actually engage in an avoiding edit warring behavior [6] [7] [8] over this issue despite my repeated calls to obtain concensus in this section. Does being an admin give him additional moral rights to engage in such behavior?--Huaiwei (talk) 07:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Get serious. Being an admin is no big deal. I'm just a normal editor in this conflict. I have not used any of the admin tools here. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 07:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I am certainly serious, mate. Your behavior is unbecoming of an admin, all of whom are elected by the community in respect of their proper conduct which includes edit warring. Do not attempt to justify your improper conduct by claiming you are behaving as a "normal editor". Try telling that to a judge if you commit an offence as an "off-duty cop" that you are just a "normal citizen" at the time of offence. Again, I am shocked by your nonchalance.--Huaiwei (talk) 07:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Noted — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 07:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Sweet. Care to translate your words into action and undo your own damage then?--Huaiwei (talk) 07:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

What "damage"? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 07:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

What do you think?--Huaiwei (talk) 08:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria

My personal view on what goes into the bottom bar are as follows:

Include the Summer and Winter Olympic Games and the Youth Summer and Winter Olympic Games.
Include the most recent edition of each event due to high publicity commonly associated with them.
Include all future editions of the games where the location has been selected.--Huaiwei (talk) 07:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I still think that's too many, and I think that if the Youth Games are included on this template, they ought to be on a second row. There are two sequences of Games — "main" summer/winter/summer/winter and Youth summer/winter/summer/winter. I think "merging" these two sets of Games onto a single row is awkward.

Perhaps the best solution is to remove the Youth Games from this template now that {{Youth Olympic Games}} has been created, and put the pair of navboxes together only on the top-level pages where it makes sense. Not every page that currently has {{Olympic Games}} transcluded as a navbox really needs links to the Youth Games, in my opinion. For example, all the per-Games per-sport articles are intended to have a trio of navboxes at the bottom. Look at Athletics at the 2004 Summer Olympics for example. Logically, the three ways to navigate from that specific page are:

to the other sports at these same 2004 Games → {{EventsAt2004SummerOlympics}}
to the other athletics pages for all other Games → {{Olympic Games Athletics}}
"up a level" to the top-level Games and other pages → {{Olympic Games}}

So, does that page need a link to the Youth Games? I wouldn't think so. However, a top-level page like Olympic sports is a perfect candidate to have both this navbox and the Youth Games navbox at the bottom. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 07:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

FWIW I agree with Andrwsc's previous removal of the youth games from this template. They should not be included, they are substantially smaller events and just clutter up the template. As has been mentioned, there is a separate Youth Olympic Games template which can be used where needed. -- Chuq (talk) 07:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The YOG template was created just three days ago, with no real need for one at this point in time. Attempting to "derate" an event based on unsourced claims of them being "substantially smaller" has little relevance to actual notability, which is a far more relevant guage to acess inclusion or exclusion. I maintain my believe that it is premature to create a YOG template, and that this template should include the YOGs until the later becomes more established to warrant their own template.--Huaiwei (talk) 07:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

You seem to want it both ways. You say they are notable enough to warrant inclusion here, but not established enough to warrant their own template. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 07:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Not exactly, for I am not clamouring for inclusion in two templates. The YOGs are notable enough for inclusion in a list of Olympic events, but they are not notable enough to have their own template. Do you have an issue with this statement?--Huaiwei (talk) 07:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it is an illogical reason to justify the inclusion of the Youth Games in this template. I'm looking at from a navigation perspective. I think the Youth Games should be included in navboxes only on a subset of pages that this template is currently transcluded on. It's not a question of notability, so your point is a red herring. It's an issue of usefulness — as it should be for navigation boxes. Look at the full set of pages at Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Olympic Games and ask yourself what makes the most sense here. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 08:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I find it completely logical from a navigation perspective to use a single template for both the main and youth Olympic Games, and to use this one single standard template in all articles on each edition of the games. To insist on maintaining multple minor templates, debating on which template to use in individual articles (Why their inclusion in Olympic sports in particular?), and than claiming "superior logic" in this arrangement sounds hilariously illogical to me. As far as ease of navigation is concerned, it is the use of simple, inclusive templates which are of greater usefullness, and not one which presumes a user reading about Beijing 2008 will not be interested to then check out the Singapore 2010 page and vice versal.--Huaiwei (talk) 08:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting that a mostly prose article such as 2008 Summer Olympics wouldn't have a link to 2010 Youth Olympic Games on it. I'm suggesting that results detail articles like Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics shouldn't have it. Also, splitting out the Youth Games onto a separate template is hardly a maintenance challenge. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 08:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Linking to the Youth Games from Olympic sports makes perfect sense because that same set of sports (or almost the same) would be on the programme for the Youth Games. Also, you insist on adding that link to {{Youth Olympic Games}}, so why do you question me about it? It seems we agree about that page. However, it makes zero sense to link to the Youth Games from All-time Olympic Games medal count, for example, for obvious reasons. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 08:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with "derating" the YOG. They are not regular Summer or Winter Olympic Games, which is the point of the template. 117th IOC Session and Olympic Congresses are important IOC related events but we don't list them in the template, because they are not relevant to the topic at hand. Huaiwei, you are the only one arguing for this and you are from Singapore, are you sure this doesn't make you biased in any way? -- Chuq (talk) 08:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

After reading the opinions above, I would opt for the "Recent and upcoming games" to be omitted, but leave the "Youth Games" navigational row intact; and highlight/bold/italise the current & next one upcoming games. (the year number) - oahiyeel ^talk 10:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Or maybe just indicate it with a different colour. - oahiyeel ^talk 10:40, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cities

I made a version that includes the names of the cities the events were held at.

v • d • e Olympic Games

Sports • Medal counts • NOCs Medalists • Symbols

Summer Games	Athens 1896 • Paris 1900 • St. Louis 1904 • (1906) • London 1908 • Stockholm 1912 • ~~1916~~ • Antwerp 1920 • Paris 1924 • Amsterdam 1928 • Los Angeles 1932 • Berlin 1936 • ~~1940~~ • ~~1944~~ • London 1948 • Helsinki 1952 • Melbourne 1956 • Rome 1960 • Tokyo 1964 • Mexico City 1968 • Munich 1972 • Montreal 1976 • Moscow 1980 • Los Angeles 1984 • Seoul 1988 • Barcelona 1992 • Atlanta 1996 • Sydney 2000 • Athens 2004 • Beijing 2008 • London 2012 • 2016 • 2020 • 2024 • 2028

Winter Games	Chamonix 1924 • St Moritz 1928 • Lake Placid 1932 • Garmisch-Partenkirchen 1936 • ~~1940~~ • ~~1944~~ • St Moritz 1948 • Oslo 1952 • Cortina d'Ampezzo 1956 • Squaw Valley 1960 • Innsbruck 1964 • Grenoble 1968 • Sapporo 1972 • Innsbruck 1976 • Lake Placid 1980 • Sarajevo 1984 • Calgary 1988 • Albertville 1992 • Lillehammer 1994 • Nagano 1998 • Salt Lake City 2002 • Turin 2006 • Vancouver 2010 • Sochi 2014 • 2018 • 2022

Youth Games	2010 Summer • 2012 Winter • 2014 Summer • 2016 Winter

Recent and upcoming Games: Athens 2004 • Turin 2006 • Beijing 2008 • Vancouver 2010

I'm not sure what should be done with the cities for the 1906 Olympics or the canceled Olympics. What do you all think?--WolFox (talk) 05:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it makes the template much harder to "parse" (i.e. find the Games you are looking for), and that's the reason why we didn't include the city names on these templates in the first place. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

What if the years were bolded?--WolFox (talk) 05:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Then it would look different from thousands of other {{Navbox}}-based templates. What problem are you trying to solve here? This template has been pretty much the same for years, so I'm not sure what needs "fixing". — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand why you might want to show the city names, because it definitely adds another layer of information to the template, but I'm not sure if it's completely necessary, nor is it, as Andrwsc said, easily readable. It would probably be best to just not include these in the template. Jared (t) 22:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

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