Talk:Nights: Journey of Dreams

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Contents 1 Angel Persona Mask. 2 Not necessarily the final title... 3 Template:NiGHTS series 4 Why is all the content gone? 5 Requested Move 6 Boxart 7 Release Date 8 ... Wait, shouldn't it be "NiGHTS"?! 9 Japanese Release Date 10 Journey of Dreamss? 11 This move is frowned upon. 12 Fair use rationale for Image:Gamereactor nights.jpg.jpg 13 could we add 14 Delayed 'till 2008? 15 Staff Credits 16 Moved Development 17 Nights -> NiGHTS

[edit] Angel Persona Mask.

The following Angel persona mask was added and later removed from the article. Was this a rumor or hoax? There are no FAQ's for this game as of yet so I could not verify this.

Angel Mask is unlocked after unlocking both secret endings and collecting all 60 dreamdrops, Nights gains Angel wings, granting the abilities of: faster flight (Rocket), gliding/swimming along the water (Dolphin), and withstanding strong winds (Dragon); all at once. Bluelightnight (talk) 21:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not necessarily the final title...

Just making a note that if you do a Babel Fish translation of that Famitsu news article, there are notes that the title is subject to change. So don't put that they confirmed the title, just that they stated it. :) --Nick R^Talk 17:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:NiGHTS series

I just created the template, it seems appropiate for it that it has a sequel now. OBEY STARMAN 17:27, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is all the content gone?

This is ridiculous. Someone explain why nearly all of the article's content was removed? Lurcho 05:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested Move

I believe that this page was moved under faulty reasoning. According to official SEGA sources, the name of both the game and the character within is spelled 'NiGHTS'. Since eBay and iPod maintain their trademarked capitalization, I see no reason why NiGHTS should be different. -Rikoshi 23:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually it was moved with a clear consensus that is backed by a Wikipedia guideline that specifically deals with these sort of questions. - Cyrus XIII 00:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Also unless I am mistaken the reason that eBay and iPod are where they are is due to this part of the WP:MOSTM. Trademarks beginning with a one-letter, separable lowercase prefix do not need to be capitalized if the second letter is capitalized, but should otherwise follow normal capitalization rules. NiGHTS however does not follow this so it is not used for the title. --70.48.108.236 02:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. 'NiGHTS' is the more proper spelling, such as 'iMiXES' (or something along the lines of that) in the iTunes store. It's the oficial and most recognized. 'Nights' is just more confusing, imo. NNR07 17:03, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that the name NiGHTS goes against wikipedia guidlines and being "proper" is not enough to overrule it especially since there was a clear consensus (listed above) not to use it. This is also the reason why Sicko (film) was not moved to SiCKO. --69.156.207.239 03:13, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I can understand the use of proper English however, I can not see why it allows discrimination against such stuff. After all I do believe its a registered trademark. Why can it not keep its registered trademark excluding "proper English" and "against rules" as a factor? If stuff like eBay and iPod can keep their registered trademarks there is no reason that stuff like NiGHTS and SiCKO should be treated any differently.

Agreed. It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Bah, oh well. As long as the character himself is capitalized as 'NiGHTS'.NNR07 14:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boxart

Doesn't the boxart look kind of fan-made? I mean there's no rating and the quality is bad. --Coconutfred73 18:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing it's the temporary boxart, but it's from IGN so I thought it was fine. As we get closer, the final boxart will be unveiled. I bet it will look similar but feature the rating, Sega logo and the Nintendo Wifi Connection seal on it. Swisspass 08:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Nintendo and ToysRus are using this box art, this is the real box-art they made it to look like the 1st NiGHTS.--DarkFierceDeityLink 19:10, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Release Date

Amazon lists the release date as November 13th, 2007. Is that dependable enough information to stick in? 64.183.72.179 16:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)KA Rose

I'd say so. Gamestop also confirms it as the same day. NNR07 14:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Info in "release date" section does not correlate with release date in right hand colum - can this be verified and rectified? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.132.10 (talk) 10:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I was on http://www.sega.com/games/game_temp.php?game=nights&lid=gp_nights&lpos=nav_pldwnlst and it said Nights for wii fall 2007--FrosticeBlade 16:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ... Wait, shouldn't it be "NiGHTS"?!

Instead of "Nights"? 208.101.155.204 04:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

No it should not because NiGHTS goes againts the WP:MOSTM. There was also a requested move on the first games talk page were the conensus was to use Nights and ther mostm has not changed since then. --67.68.152.197 07:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

... But it's still officially NiGHTS. If a move is requested, why not keep it confined to the actual name of the article? No need to change the actual name of the character. 208.101.155.204 13:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned eeariler it goes against wikipieda Guidlnes and it was also mentioned earlier a requested move on the first's game talk page produced a clear consenus to use Nights over NiGHTS. To be more percise the MOSTM page it states Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment. NiGHTS does not use nomrmal capitalisation rules so should not be used as the title because that would be special treatment. There are a few exceptions (such as words that start with a lowecase letter) but none of them apply to the use of NiGHTS. In short there is very little chance of a requested move being successful. --67.71.77.222 06:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Um, yes. But let's keep it confined to the actual name of the ARTICLE, and make a note of it somewhere. 208.101.131.232 17:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to revisit this. Not for article name but for instances of "NiGHTS" within the article. I reviewed WP:MOS-TM and read Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(trademarks)#NiGHTS_into_Dreams... which addressed the naming convention for the title of the article. I cannot find discussion specifically regarding body of the article usage. Regarding not capitalizing; WP:MOS-TM suggests to maintain the capitalization as it appears originally if the first letter is not capitalized (instead, use: eBay is where he bought his iPod.) eBay is not unlike NiGHTS in usage, wouldn't a similar convention apply here? I understand this has been discussed, but the primary focus seemed to be the convention in the article name, not the body. Because of this, I'm going to revert the most recent change of "NiGHTS" within the article to "Nights" temporarily until a consensus can be reached, and will make note in the edit to refer to talk back. Thanks. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 13:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

When it comes to style, there never is a focus on any isolated parts of an article, as stylistic differences, i.e. between title and body only promotes inconsistency, while the lead of Wikipedia:Manual of Style cites consistency as the key to "professionalism, simplicity and greater cohesion in Wikipedia articles". Aforementioned exception for terms like eBay and iPod explicitly refers to separable one-letter prefixes, which may convey meaning and pronunciation, while "NiGHTS" (save for a single letter) is an all-caps form of the plural of "night", which is explicitly discouraged by WP:Manual of Style (capital letters)#All caps and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks). See also: Talk:Nights into Dreams...#Requested move. - Cyrus XIII (talk) 14:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional reading. As I understand it, the intention is not to preserve the primary source's usage of style as it appears in written packaging, displayed in game, and in publication. In place, the style will be unified for consistencies sake. This applies to both in article, and title. Can't say I necessarily agree with that, though, in searching other articles with similar issues (like Talk:Year_Zero_Remixed) it seems I'm in the minority. Any other thoughts? AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 14:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

With no further input on this end and both guideline text as well as common application being quite clear, the use of stylized typography has again been limited to the descriptive note in the lead, along with the game's cover art serving as illustration. - Cyrus XIII (talk) 04:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds Good. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 14:06, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese Release Date

A revision was recently made to the Japanese release date, which was edited to Winter 2007. The information comes from a recent trailer, which can be seen at http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24445.html. Asotoku 18:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Trailer Platforms: Posted September 01, 2007 @ 5:09 am Release Date: November 13, 2007 This winter, prepare to return to the land of dreams.--FrosticeBlade 19:08, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Journey of Dreamss?

Why was the article moved to NiGHTS: Journey of Dreamss? It's not spelled with two Ss is it? Goron0000 19:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

It isn't. Result of a botched move by a user. Fix for the article is being requested at Wikipedia:Requested moves. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 01:22, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This move is frowned upon.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=938874&topic=37932951 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.131.232 (talk) 17:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Then take it over to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Apologies for having a standardized way of formatting articles and not kow-towing to the preferences of a small group of fans on the Internet. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 06:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I know how you feel ;-;. 'NiGHTS' is indeed the correct spelling, and I still don't understand why someone decides to "Do the proper thing" when it's not helping anyone, and it's actually CONFUSING people more. And, FYI NeoChaosX, it's not kow-towing, and practically all NiGHTS fans agree with spelling it 'NiGHTS'. It's the right thing to do. It's just wikipedia's style guide that's getting in the way. NNR07 21:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of how many fans think it is the "right" spelling, this isn't just an article for fans. It's supposed to also be able to inform a user who may not have heard of Nights before understand the game. The Manual of Style is structured so it would be easy for the average person - not a fan - to understand and read. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 21:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

This isn't about the fans. "NiGHTS" is copyrighted by Sega, and is their intellectual property, not "Nights". Saying that it's "because of the fans" means that you've probably never even played it. 208.101.136.228 11:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. NeoChaosX, this article is for everyone. Therefore, NiGHTS's capitalization SHOULD be capitalized as 'NiGHTS' so the average reader knows it is the proper and correct way. Otherwise, it will give the unknowing reader the impression that it is not capitalized like so, even though the fans KNOW that it is capitalized as "NiGHTS". All fans know it is capitalized as "NiGHTS". People who aren't familiar with NiGHTS don't know that, and it should be at least stated somewhere "(The correct spelling being 'NiGHTS' )". Like said above, it is also the correct copyright spelling. Not just something a bunch of fans made on their own. See 'Nights' and 'NiGHTs' if you're more interested in fan-made spellings.NNR07 21:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Small point but to the user that posted above the last one. Using NiGHTS because Sega copyrighted clearly violated the MOSTM making that argument irreleveant. --70.48.111.217 21:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Copyright

Obviously the basic names "nights into dreams" and "nights: journey of dreams" are trademarked (their logos certainly are; the ^TM is clearly displayed), but is there any evidence that Sega has actually registered them as trademarks with any particular capitalisation? I had a quick look though the PAL manual for the original game and couldn't see anything along the lines of "'NiGHTS Into Dreams', 'NiGHTS', 'Claris Sinclair' and 'Elliot Edwards' are registered trademarks of Sega Enterprises Ltd." - with that capitalisation or any other.

(Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm well aware that the above paragraph could be completely wrong - as laymen's discussions about copyright often are. But I am curious about this.)

But regardless of what the trademark status is, the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) takes precedence on this site, and that states, "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment." Hence the building blocks are called "Lego" through most of that article, even though the company makes clear that it wants people to use its preferred capitalisation of "LEGO®".

Article names and body text

Wikipedia:Manual of Style does note that it's just a guideline, and can be overridden if there's an alternative consensus. But one obviously hasn't been reached in our case! :-)

One thing that's clear is that the article names should use "Nights", because Wikipedia:Naming conventions states: "Follow standard English text formatting for article names that are trademarks. Items in full or partial uppercase (such as Invader ZIM) should have standard capitalisation (Invader Zim)."

So that's not a problem. The question is: what should be used throughout the body of the article? There are three possibilities:

1. We use "NiGHTS" throughout.
2. "Nights" with a note somewhere that it's often written as "NiGHTS".
3. "Nights" throughout and not even acknowledge the alternative.

As a fan of the game who uses "NiGHTS" when discussing it elsewhere, I would prefer #1. But I wouldn't complain about #2 if that's what the MOS and consensus suggests.

If we do pick #2, we should justify it by referencing a few places (NOT message boards) which have used that capitalisation. The PAL game's manual uses NiGHTS, and games magazines and websites differ in what they use (Edge has used both variants, in different issues).

This comment was too long. --Nick R^Talk 01:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

---

#2 is already in use in the articles for both games. Sega's typeset is mentioned in a neutral, unobtrusive way during the lead and the respective cover art should serve as a sufficient source. - Cyrus XIII 02:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Gamereactor nights.jpg.jpg

Image:Gamereactor nights.jpg.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Please ignore that tinhead, BetacommandBot. It has NO idea what it is talking about.

Actually since the page does not include a fair use rational it actually is a candiaiate for deletion and probally will be deleted unless one is added. --65.95.16.156 21:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

No, it DOES contain a fair use rational. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.37.235 (talk) 08:41, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually no it does not. Adding a Non-free magazine cover template is not a valid fair use rational and has already been reverd and the picture is still up for deletion. For example look at this image Image:CartoonBowserSMB3.jpg as you can see there is a seperate rational listed that is not part of the template. You will need something like that or it will be deleted. --69.156.206.116 03:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it DOES, and very much so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.28.79.204 (talk) 00:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] could we add

we change it to NiGHTS then or Nights?--FrosticeBlade 20:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

No it's NiGHTS but on this page they prefer Nights but the did say or NiGHTS.--DarkFierceDeityLink 22:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Delayed 'till 2008?

There's no source given that the game has been delayed to 2008-- the source given is broken and it was just a rumor anyway. The new "Transformations" trailer floating around the 'net even lists the date as 18 Dec 2008 for NA.--llamapalooza87 01:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I checked everywhere including Sega's site. They all say Dec. 18, 2007 for NA. Neo Samus 19:22, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

How do you mean the source is broken?

Anyways, it's the same source that reported the previous delay for Europe, almost 2 months before it was officially announced. It was the same source that reported of the multiplayer, A-Life, online and much more stuff long before it was made official. There is little ground to assume they'd be wrong this time. JackSparrow Ninja 12:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games just came out, and the advertisement for NiGHTS says 'coming soon'. If this delay was a rumour, and it was coming out in a month, then it would most certainly contain the actual releasedate rather then a coming soon.

Since no one responded to this anyway, I'm changing it back.

Just let me know if you've got something to say still. JackSparrow Ninja (talk) 23:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Staff Credits

I put the staff credits from the people that worked on this game......and it got erased. May I ask why? There are only 25 people that worked on the game excluding the music composers, and I find it essential to list the credits. I see other articles do that. We are Wikipedia after all. So can I put the credits without worrying about someone erasing it?--S200048 (talk) 21:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)s200048

I removed that gigantic list...not necessary...and is also made up of user submitted data, we can't use anything like that...nor would we want to...we don't have a list like that anyway...nor do we need one.--DarkFierceDeityLink 21:33, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved Development

It should probably be at the bottom, because the information about the game itself should be prioritized. --74.194.118.203 (talk) 01:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nights -> NiGHTS

I went ahead and did it. The spelling "Nights" is never used to refer to the game or character, only to the plural of night, as in the period of time between sundown and sunrise. Using it here reduced the quality of the article by making it more confusing. If you're going to pull WP:MOSCAPS on me, I have to cite WP:IAR. The article is clearer when capitalized consistent with the sources and subject matter. --Kinkoblast (talk) 03:54, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: The spelling "Nights" is never used...; that is false. Spelling NiGhtS or nights or Nights is exactly the same. Capitalization is not spelling. And, while your opinion is that in one article conforming to a non-standard capitalization scheme is consistent and easier to understand, the Wikipedia policies exist to provide a sense of conformity across all articles in the encyclopedia. IAR has its place, but it is rarely a good argument to make against the style guide. Neier (talk) 13:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

The style guide is flawed. Never, in the game, manual, press releases, etc do you see "Nights", unless it's referring to play periods + game overs. It is always NiGHTS. (And does it really matter if you call it spelling or not?) Calling NiGHTS Nights is exactly like calling you NEiER. It's incorrect and rather obnoxious. --Kinkoblast (talk) 15:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this is especially relevant as it's arguable that people recognise the title due to the capitalization. It's a very larger part of how people refer to the character and the title. Isn't correct info more important than everything having standard capitalization? Ayries (talk) 14:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

That depends on if you are creating a NiGHTS wikipedia, or if Nights is a subset of a larger encyclopedia. The editors of Wikipedia have made a conscious decision to present the entire encylcopedia in a consistent manner. Part of that presentation format is related to the capitalization of words which are not normally capitalized, etc. When weighing the cost/benefit of "consistency" versus "correct info", the style manuals already explicitly state that consistency wins. Neier (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)