Talk:Hangman's knot
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I was about to write this then decided maybe we should not describe here how to tie this. Hmph. --Justfred
Some would say that's stifling the free interchange of information. But anyway... This article could certainly do with fleshing out. It doesn't stand well on it's own. Darac 21:57, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I also believe there is absolutely no reason to leave out information. My memory tells that there are actually two versions of the knot. One can be pulled open and another one can not. The non-opening version can be pulled tightly shut in order to make a very convenient throwing weight for an end of any rope of suitable thickness. --blades 01:48, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
The article seems to have improved. The thirteen turns sounds like one of those things that people keep adding to myths and stories to make them seem more mystical. Then again, maybe it is something people would really have done to make the event seem more mystical. I am not a hangman, so I can't tell for sure :) --blades 09:42, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] Name change
I believe the correct name for this knot is the "Hangman's knot". A noose is the simplest kind of running knot. - From the Morrow guide to knots. ISBN 0-688-01226-4
[edit] thirteen loops
I thought a Hangman's noose traditionally had thirteen loops. Is this not true?
Pud 01:40, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Each additional loop adds friction to the knot, so you adjust the number of loops according to how easily you want the knot to slide, and depending on the type and condition of the rope. 7 loops is the normal way of tying this knot (for natural rope), while 13 loops makes the knot look rather ugly (very elongated on most ropes) and a bit more unstable as the knot itself starts to bend.
- I'll write some more on the main page if nobody minds, as there are "significant non-infringing [to life] uses" of the knot, and lots of history, politics and intregue to write about. Ojw 19:18, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- From what I've seen (looking at old photos), there actually are 13 loops. It makes sense, as people have always been superstitious. ~ Wakanda's Black Panther! (contribs) 01:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Only hearsay I'm afraid but I have heard that it was 13 for a normal man, 15 for a stout one - possibly due to the fact that a lot of pressure can cause the "locking" loop at the top to be pulled through the other loops, runing the knot - Excuse the layman terms Basiclife (talk)
[edit] Not dangerous?
User:64.40.45.208 wrote "There is nothing intrinsically dangerous about the hangman's noose itself.". Howabout its tendancy to shut easily and not open? Ojw 19:23, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- I think, for the sake of pretty much everyone, and whatever credibility Wikipedia might have, this article would be better off without a "Tying it" section.
- It's been discussed as whether or not to give instruction on tying the knot, because it might be dangerous. I really don't see any danger here. If someone's to kill themselves or someone else, they probably won't search Wikipedia. Besides that, instructions on how to tie one would give a good visual on what they look like and how they work/worked. Seems to me the real danger lies in the "just under the left ear" bit, because it "does the job" instantly. This article probably ought to be re-written, with instructions on the knot(or a good picture) added. But that's just my opinion. ~ (Wakandas black panther 06:04, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
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- Unfortunately, I think how to tie it should be listed as I hate the idea of hiding the facts (especially when there are thousands of sites demonstrating the knot available). I would, however, suggest that it may be worth adding some sort of warning/disclaimer tag. Something like : Warning! This knot can tighten easily and should not be used on a human as serious injury/death can result (Ok, it's late and I'm tired but you get the point) Basiclife (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Other uses
I added a section on other uses. Basically a "hangman's knot" is the same as fishing's uni knot. I was going to give directions on tying it on the uni knot page, but wondered if maybe I should remove the other uses section that I put in with the link to the uni knot page for all the reasons listed above.
[edit] History
Is there a reason why the line "this knot was offten used to kil slaves and people that were accused of being a witch. They would have the knot around your neck and make you stand on a deck then they would push you off causing the tightness of the rope to beak your neck" is there? It seems rather pointless as a) the spelling is poor, b) its pointing out a specific use when the actual use was more general (i.e. not just slaves and witches, also used from horse back), and c) it's preceded by the line "The Hangman's Knot was used on ropes in Colonial America as well as England during the 17th and 18th centuries as a way to execute condemned people easily. The knot would break a person's neck if tied correctly, otherwise the person was simply left to strangle to death."
If there is feel free to revert it, otherwise I removed this bit of repitition. 01:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Copyright?
Most text is directly copied and the rest just a re-written version of http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/hangmansnoose.html
[edit] Rope length
Is their not a formula to calculate the length of the rope considering the weight of the person? I think this is relevant information that should be added.
Yes, there is. But it's not relevant to the knot, only to the practice of hanging which is where it's referenced. RedHillian 00:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 13 Loops Legality
I had never heard before reading this article that 13 coils in the noose is believed by many to be illegal. Regardless of its legality, does anyone have have any research/proof/links demonstrating if it is truly legal or not? Snopes has nothing, and the only thing I can find online is some poor soul commenting on a MetaCafe video, claiming that most states banned it sometime after 1957. --LoganK 19:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yes. I would like a citation too on that.
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- I'm afraid I have no reference but have been sailing for years and have heard from a large number of people that 13 loops was illegal - However, I have to admit that as noone here can find any hard references, I'm more and more inclined to believe it's a myth. Basiclife (talk)
[edit] striking force
additional striking force to the back of the neck? is that even significant? seems like it needs a citation Cannibalicious!
Your MoM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.47.187.99 (talk) 15:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
- gee, that was helpful, an irrelevant insult to the mother. 68.36.214.143 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] A couple of Comments
JayMill 04:27, 6 October 2007 (UTC)The neck-breaking force is due to the twisting motion. Noose's are never placed directly behind the neck, always off to the side, so as you drop, it swivels, placing pressure transversely on the cervical vertebrae. The C-section of the spine twists, severing the spinal column. Thus, death. I was always told it was tied with 13 knots, however in practice, its nearly impossible to do so with a thinker rope. What bothers me is the title. The hangman's knot was typically used for strangulation hangings, where the noose was used for dead-drop hangings. I just wanted to add that, it's your call.
[edit] AKA parade knot
The knot is also known as a “parade knot”. It was used by the US Calvary (and other horse units) when they were leading their horses while in foot. The intent of this parade knot was to serve as a way to humanely maintain control of a horse during a parade where it could be suddenly startled.
The loop of the noose was tightened around the muzzle of the horse. The lead, along with the reins, were held in the off hand and the coils were held in the hand closest to the horse. If the horse started to skitter, the person leading the horse could take the coils and cant them against the horses jaw. This would cause the loop to temporally tighten but would loosen when the coils were moved to the original perpendicular position. This technique was used to provide temporary control over an otherwise well disciplined horse.
What I would like to see in this article (and I will start doing some research) is what are the different “knots” used for judicial hangings? I know that the British used a spliced running loop lined with chamois leather. I also believe that US military hangings used a similar spliced running noose. It would be interesting to find out whether other countries used the “hangman’s/parade knot”. It would also be interesting to find out when the hangman’s/parade knot was first used for judicial hangings in this country and how it was chosen.
One theory I have read indicated that the bulk of the coils of the hangman’s/parade knot would impact the mastoid process of the condemned, knocking them out. I don’t know whether this theory is accurate or not. Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 17:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
