Talk:General Roman Calendar as in 1954
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General Roman Calendar as in 1954 is part of the WikiProject Saints, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Saints and other individuals commemorated in Christian liturgical calendars on Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to saints as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to saints. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. | ||
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[edit] Copy of calendar of saints article
The first part of this article is a copy of the calendar of saints article. However, the lists are not the same. What is going on should be figured out so nobody wastes time cleaning up an article that is going to be deleted or redirected. -- Kjkolb 17:41, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
I originally created this article, since the only listing was the 1969 version; there wasn't one for the traditional rite. Since the first part applies equally to both, and someone might find either calendar first, depending on what he's looking for, I thought it made sense to repeat the introduction. If people disagree, perhaps the various listings could be their own articles, with just the listing, and calendar of saints could be the general article with the first section, and short paragraphs on the variations. I've gone ahead and done this, but feel free to edit. PaulGS 02:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Links
There was only one link for a saint here, so I added a number of others. I hope this was OK to do. It seems to make the page even more useful. Interlingua talk email 02:34, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Please do. I originally posted the list without links, just to get something here, and really didn't have the time to check every saint against his Wikipedia article, and just adding links would probably lead to a lot of dead pages. I figured someone else would add them eventually. I've since added the rest of the links for December, and a few more in November. The only one in December I left out was St. Sabbas, on December 5, who doesn't seem to have a page. "Sabbas" currently redirects to St. Sava, an Orthodox saint. PaulGS 00:05, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Double, etc.
What does the term, "Double," and its associates mean in the list? There are Doubles, Semidoubles, Great Doubles, Doubles of the II class, etc. It would be VERY helpful to the usability of this article if those terms were either linked on first usages or explained in the body of the article. {Kevin/Last1in posting sans cookies} 12.96.58.22 21:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
- The terms relate to how the days were "ranked" in importance in that system. The ranking was (I think):
- Double I class
- Double II class
- Greater double (or major double)
- Double (or lesser double or minor double)
- Semidouble
- Simple
- The term "double" related to some antiphons (short phrases said with the psalms in the breviary) being repeated, or said twice. On semidouble days and simple days, these antiphons were only said in their entirety once; otherwise only the first few words were said. Semidoubles (normally) had two vespers offices like other doubles; simples had only one. Can't really give a reference for this, but hope it helps. Gimmetrow 22:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I have a 1960 Maryknoll Missal (published P.J. Kenedy & sons, New York) that I will quote on this point. Woolhiser 05:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Corrections?
This was added to the main page by an anonymous user 62.239.47.25; I've moved it here and commented on it.
Corrections?
[edit] =
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Paul_of_the_Cross
gives October 19 as the Feastday
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Catholic_Calendar
gives April 28 St Paul of the Cross
http://www.catholic.org/saints/calendar/april.php
gives April 28 St. Peter Chanel; St. Louis Mary Grignion
http://www.catholic.org/saints/calendar/october.php
gives Sts. Isaac Jogues, John de Brebeuf and Companions
Those dates you found are for the calendar as revised after Vatican II. This list is the pre-reform 1954 calendar, still used (with a few additions) by those Catholics who use the 1962 Missal. PaulGS 03:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] End of May
The section on the two changes of 1955 keeps getting deleted, and I think it should stay, so it looks like we need to discuss it here. Clearly the 1962 calendar, with its suppression of Vigils and Octaves, and "classes" of feasts instead of Double, Semidouble, and Simple, needs to be separate, but the cutoff line before that isn't quite as clear. I've got a breviary with both St. Joseph the Worker and the Queenship, but still with all the Vigils and Octaves (but with the new Holy Week), so those two feasts were added before stuff started getting cut. Since the main point of having so many calendars is to compare the changes over the years, it seems useful to me to show Philip and James on May 1, and Angela Merici on May 31, but to also note the two new feasts. I don't see the cutoff date as so much "1954", but rather "before all sorts of stuff got suppressed", and noting both versions seems appropriate. I could live with adding them to the calendar and making a note somewhere, although I'd prefer it the way it is. PaulGS (talk) 05:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
-
- I wonder if PaulGS's Breviary is really post-1955. I have with me an altar Missal published by Marietti) of 1952. It already has the Pius XII Holy Week texts that were made obligatory only in 1955 but that were, it seems, already made available, ad experimentum, in 1951.
- I have now put in Wikipedia an account of the changes Pius XII introduced in the calendar as part of the decree Cum nostra hac aetate (De rubricis ad simpliciorem formam redigendis) of 23 March 1955: General Roman Calendar of Pope Pius XII.
- Since the calendar actually followed from 1956 to 1960, a mere five years, was different in many respects from the 1954 calendar, affecting every single month of the calendar, I do think that either all the changes should be noted month by month or else the existence of the Pius XII changes should be merely mentioned in the introduction. However, while awaiting comments from PaulGS and perhaps others, I will not now remove the comment attached to the month of May. Lima (talk) 15:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- The breviary I referred to has the Holy Week changes (no extra Psalm 50 during the Triduum; full Vespers of Holy Saturday; Matins and Lauds of Easter are optional for those present at the Easter Vigil), but still contains all the Vigils and Octaves. The approbation is dated 19 July 1956, and has a 1956 publication date, so it's certainly post-1955 in that respect.
- I'm not quite sure of the need for a separated 1956-1960 calendar, although I don't really have an objection to it, or even to a page reflecting every change if someone really wanted to bother, since I prefer including information in Wikipedia rather than removing it. I don't like the notes on every month, since it's repetitive and clutters up the calendar, while the note on May covers only two feasts, but I'd be okay with including the information in the introduction, along with a mention of the suppression of most Vigils and Octaves. I just thought the end of May seemed like a better place for it, since it's closer to the actual dates and easier to visually see how it fits in. PaulGS (talk) 00:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
In 1955, the following changes were made by Pope Pius XII:
- May 1: St. Joseph the Workman, Double of the I Class
- May 11: Ss. Philip and James Apostles, Double of the II Class.
- May 31: Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen, Double of the II Class, Com. of St. Petronilla Virgin.
- June 1: St. Angela Merici Virgin, Double. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PaulGS (talk • contribs) 00:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
