User talk:Dalbury/Archive 6

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 DYK 2 FYI 3 CC licenses 4 Citing sources on plantatations 5 Fair Use Dispute 6 Duval County, Florida 7 Osceola image 8 Burt Reynolds 9 Fort Lauderdale 10 Wikiproject Miami 11 Censoring 12 Welcome to OTRS! 13 Ignore all rules 14 Boot of beer 15 Category:Settlements 16 Loxahatchee Groves, Florida 17 Mediation request 18 Pics thanks 19 Morikami 20 Request for Mediation 21 Off topic 22 Sanibel, Florida 2nd opinion 23 Reply re userfication 24 Re your Algae as Protist discussion 25 Larry Bird in Naples 26 Burt Reynolds 27 BURT 28 Map of Tampa 29 Talk:Morikami park 30 McCarthy, McCarthyism 31 Format of dates in Wikipedia articles 32 Lightvessels in Ireland 33 Cited 34 Citation for fellatio 35 Image deletion question 36 WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics todo feedback 37 OTRS about Shane Ruttle Martinez 38 Private Eye 39 Big Bend (Florida) 40 Detractors and allegations 41 User talk:JzG 42 Tanya Kach 43 Image:Jupiterinletlh.JPG listed for deletion 44 St. Pete Meetup time! 45 Source for Tequesta 46 your tag on Samuel Eliot Morison‎ page 47 ? 48 Burt Reynolds' Birthplace...source citing and 'notes'... 49 Miami-area special project: Your input needed! 50 Re: Ocala, FL Campus of Rasmussen College 51 HMS Tyger (1647) 52 burt 53 West Palm Beach, Florida 54 Florida missions 55 wrong 56 DYK 57 High Springs 58 Professor 59 Jacksonville, Florida - Nickname 60 German Miami Page 61 West Boca High 62 Jupiter Inlet &, Indian River Lagoon

DYK

On 5 February 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Robert King High, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Yomangani^talk 11:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

FYI

See WP:ANI#Gilbert Wesley Purdy spam -- I see you've tangled with this person before. --72.149.166.221 23:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

You may want to go disable the vgs-wiki-watchdog.blogspot.com link in your User talk:Dalbury/Archive 2; it's been blacklisted. See m:Talk:Spam blacklist#Virtual Grub Street-related domains. Cheers! --A. B. ^(talk) 19:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I've disabled it, although the link does not appear to be blacklisted yet. -- Donald Albury 20:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

CC licenses

Hi Donald. You might know this already, but there are quite a number of Creative Commons licenses, and some, like this one's, forbid noncommercial use and are not considered free enough for Wikipedia or Commons. Basically, all of the CC licenses with the non-commercial (-nc) or no-derivatives (-nd) options are not compatible; the attribution (-by) and share-alike (-sa) options are ok. There's a lot more info at Commons:Licensing, if you're interested. Best ×Meegs 13:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware that there are differences. I'm not sure which case you are refering to, but I won't delete an image when the wrong reason has been used to list it for deletion. -- Donald Albury 20:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

It's no big deal. I was talking about the image whose history I linked in my first message. You correctly noted that the image was "Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0", but took it off of its deletion track by incorrectly tagging it {{Cc-by-2.0}}. We don't have a tag for by-nc-sa images, because we treat them as we do all other unfree media and only allow them under a claim of fair use. I deleted it because a photo of a contemporary, accessible building does not meet criterion #1 of our fair use policy. ×Meegs 22:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree that such images need to go. I may have missed the details in this case. -- Donald Albury 22:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Citing sources on plantatations

Note - Source is noted at article bottom as Clifton Paisley. I just added more information from his book which I had not yet read all the way through. If you see other plantations done by me in this way, I'll mention it in discussion. Noles1984 23:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

In-line citations (generally one per paragraph is fine) make it clear what material is supported by which reference. As soon as an article is more than a couple of paragraphs long, it becomes difficult to tell what end-of-article references cover (especially if they are books or other off-line references). When books are used as references, it is helpful to list page numbers for specific citations. I know I've been caught out when challenged for a citation for a specific statement, and couldn't remember which of the three library books I had listed as references it came from. -- Donald Albury 23:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair Use Dispute

The reasoning behind the dispute has been updated for Image:SethPubPhoto.jpg. Jheditorials 15:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)jheditorials

Duval County, Florida

Mr. Albury, my edit that was deleted was for the Duval County page, not the Jacksonville page (I have no idea where to get election results for the City of Jacksonville). I guess that the Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections, http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/, is not considered a "relible source" (despite the fact that it bases everything on government sources and is used by thousands of political professionals who pay for its premium content), so I went to the Duval County Supervisor of Elections website and confirmed that the numbers I had gotten from the Atlas for 2004 and 2000 were indeed correct. Here are the numbers for 2004: http://www.duvalelections.com/ERSummary.aspx?eid=9 and here are the ones for 2000: http://www.duvalelections.com/Election.aspx?eid=2; I included those sources in the "history" and "discussion" sections of the main article. BTW, the Duval elections website only goes back to 2000, so I *did not* change the incorrect results for prior elections (which, BTW, were input without a source by whomever it was that did so). I apologize for having previously fixed obviously incorrect (and unsourced) information without meeting with Wikipedia's "reliable sources" criteria, but I honestly did not think that the Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections would not be deemed to be "reliable." AuH2ORepublican 16:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Our verifiability policy requires that everything in Wikipedia be verifiable, and that reliable sources be cited when any statement is challenged. If you feel the the current election result figures are wrong you can request citations for them, or, if you have a source, change the figures AND cite your source(s) in the article. -- Donald Albury 04:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. AuH2ORepublican 15:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Osceola image

With regard to Image:OsceolaOcala.JPG, I have changed the tag from {{PD-self}} to {{statue}}, and added fair use rationale. I am also inquiring about the age of the statue, as it is possibly already in the public domain.--NeilEvans 23:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia fair use policy states that "paintings and other works of visual art" may be used only "for critical commentary, including images illustrative of a particular technique or school." Use of an image that is under copyright for illustrating an article about the subject of the artwork does not qualify for "fair use" in Wikipedia. -- Donald Albury 04:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added information about the statue being erected to commemorate the event. Can the image now be used as fair use because it is illustrating part of the article?--NeilEvans 23:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that our 'fair use' criteria do not cover the use of the image in an article about Osceola. Specifically, the [[tl|statue}} template includes the following text:

It is believed that the use of a picture

• to illustrate the three-dimensional work of art in question,
• to discuss the artistic genre or technique of the work of art
• or to discuss the artist or the school to which the artist belongs

• on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation,

qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Any other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement.

My interpretation of this text is that the image could only be used in an article about the statue, an article about the artistic genre or technique of the statue or an article about the artist or the school to which the artist belongs. More basically, fair use is justified by a critique or analysis of a piece of artwork. Using the image in an article about Osceola does not meet those criteria. Added to that, in the case of Osceola we have a number of public domain images of Osceola that we can freely use, which means there is no justification for using any 'fair use' image in the article. -- Donald Albury 23:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Burt Reynolds

Because you spent childhood somewhere does not mean you were born there so, unless you have something that disputes major encyclopedias such as *Georgia Encyclopedia *Encyclopedia Britannica *Encarta MSN please do not change his birth place to Lansing it is simply not true. If you research him thru all his interviews over the years he clearly says his birthplace on all these talk shows "The Carol Burnett Show" Episode #1.4 (1967) he states at the begining of the show he was born in a small town in Georgia. then on "The Merv Griffin show", he says clearly from his own mouth Waycross as he does the same on"mike douglas","tonight show with johnny carson", "dinah shore", "barbara walters" and they even had a show about him on "this is your life" here are much more links as well as the fact his birth certificate is on file with the Ware County Health Department in Waycross, Georgia. [Georgia Encyclopedia] [Georgia Monthly] [Movies @ Yahoo] [Tv.com] Answers.com [filmbug] [Celebrity] [infoplease.com] [factmonster.com] [Encarta MSN] [Encyclopedia Britannica] ~~Rogue Gremlin~~I wasn't thru adding i was still tweaking 19:50 Feb 11 2007

Please take this to Talk:Burt Reynolds, where this has all been discussed in the past. -- Donald Albury 23:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Please do not change it back to that cause it is an insult to the man himself, plus i already had all of this in his discussions with all the links provided as well as adding these links to his external links before you went in today and changed it back. But yes i will be glad to move it there as long as you read the discussions all the discussions there before just going in and changing things. Thanks for your time and consideration ~~ Rogue_Gremlin~~ 23:50 FEb 11 2007 HAPPY BURTday to BURT

Here are even a few more links

• Starpulse
• Hollywood.com
• E!
• TV @ Yahoo
• The Biography Channel
• Movies @ AOL
• Allmovie.com
• Movies @ MSN ~~ Rogue_Gremlin~~ 23:50 Feb 11 2007

and yea i will move this soon. thx

Fort Lauderdale

Hey Donald, Probably going to get yelled at for this edit: [1], which was done in "retaliation" for similar text at the Pompano Beach article. I'm not opposed to mentioning Sistrunk Boulevard, but it was simply factually incorrect, considering that real estate prices in that area are still extremely bloated--for an area of "urban blight"... Bastiq▼e ^demandez 01:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Miami

Mr. Albury,

We can use someone with your knowledge of Miami & Miami-Dade County in Wiki Project: Miami. Would you like to join the cause?

Skillz187 20:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd been thinking about, have now done so. -- Donald Albury 22:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Censoring

Please stop. Wikipedia is not censored. Any further changes which have the effect of censoring an article, such as you did to Pearl necklace (sexuality) will be regarded as vandalism. If you continue in this manner, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 13:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Removing unsourced trivia from an article has absolutely nothing to do with 'censorship'. Pay more attention to my edit summary, the history of the article, and our policies. -- Donald Albury 20:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to OTRS!

Hello, congratulations on joining the OTRS volunteer corps! In case people get really upset with you and start an invasion, you get your own personal escape pod. Have fun! --Benn Newman 22:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm trying to figure out my way around the system now. -- Donald Albury 22:57, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Taino Ti Donald: You might find it appropriate to keep in mind that I wrote most of that page, I will insert the appropriate references (which already are in the extensive bibliography of that page) after I submit sample chapters of my next book to the publishers today.

One of my ancestors used to sing (notice the spelling of Siboney):

Siboney con orgullo me llamo Y soy hijo del sol del del agua Con mi arco y mi linda piragua Soy feliz y no espero otro bien

Yo sufro, yo sufro, yo sufire Por volver a mi Cuba querida A Cuba, a Cuba done donde yo naci.

El Jigue 2-20-06-7208.65.188.149 17:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Ignore all rules

I was kind of puzzled at your contribution on February 13th copyright problems. The Bishop Botean page wasn't going to get done (not this month at least) absent my intervention so I called up the chancellor, got permission verbally, modified the Bishop's CV page and put it up as a stub. Had I just done that, we all wouldn't have been having this conversation.

It is my further going off to the talk page and actually stating that I got permission that triggered this mess because xyzzy took exception at my own use of Wikipedia:Ignore all rules. So why is his use of the policy correct and my own one is not? Is creating a page without dotting every I or crossing every T more in line with "creating a free encyclopedia" or is killing that page because you can't be bothered to send an email or place a phone call in line with the guidelines? What does the assumption of good faith mean here, or is that also optional under Wikipedia:Ignore all rules?

The only legitimate reason not to use the text as currently formatted is a fear of lawsuit. There is no chance on God's green earth that the Romanian Catholic Diocese of Canton is going to sue over this and if anybody who would be believed by the admins would actually ask, this would become clear rather quickly. Yet nobody does and nobody gives a good reason why going through the delete process is preferrable than going through the checking process. Instead, a great deal more time is being spent on the copyvio discussion rather than actually just confirming my assertions. It's a strange psychological phenomenon.

The page will eventually be created and you can be sure that the sourcing will be impeccable but if "the whim of the admin" is the true rule for en.wikipedia then why should anybody bother? TMLutas 19:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

'Ignore all rules' means don't let procedural minutiae or bureaucratic red tape stop you from doing what needs to be done to improve Wikipedia. It does not mean ignoring the 'pillars' of Wikipedia, such as Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, nor does it mean cutting corners on licensing of copyright material. -- Donald Albury 20:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't expect that "Ignore all rules" meant ignore copyright violations and have not asserted that it is so. What you have in this instance is two editors, one who is asserting that copyright permission has been granted, another baldly asserting that it has not. The former (me) is saying, "you don't believe me, go verify, here's who I talked to". The latter is saying, essentially, that the former is lying and that no verification is needed for that assertion to result in a pulled page. I don't think it's unreasonable that if you call me a liar, go check with the other party to the asserted conversation. That's just common sense and it also happens to be in the guidelines. That *nobody* who sees this has taken the time to verify things but spends *more* time than a check would have taken in finding policies to justify their gut instinct is troubling to me. TMLutas 21:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Boot of beer

I've redirected the nonsense. I see you also have had dealings with this piece. SilkTork 22:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Category:Settlements

I am currently engaged in doing some work with this category and Category:Settlements by region. I noticed you had an interest in these categories so I thought I would give some explanation of my actions in case you were curious. I feel that official, longstanding and large communities the size of villages and above would not belong under Settlements so I have been doing some resorting. Let me know if you disagree. Regards. SilkTork 23:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi again. User Hmains is pursuing a one man campaign to impose an incorrect term on the categories in Wiki. He is clearly mistaking settlement for community. How do get him to see he is mistaken? Is there a Project working on categories with whom we could discuss the matter? Regards. SilkTork 13:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Be careful. I proposed renaming the category and got shouted down. Hmains is not the only one insisting on the use of 'settlement' for all populated places. I still want to see reliable sources for that use that are stronger than the dictionary defs. -- Donald Albury 13:31, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Settlements category: and any category is not the place for definitions, from whatever point of view. Look at other categories. As far as the use of 'settlements' as the collective term for all populated places: that has been agreed to by the CfD process as well as discussion in the WP policy page. It is not a private choice of you or me, regardless what we make think about it. If a different term was WP collectively agreed upon, I would then use that one. Thanks Hmains 17:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmains 17:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I do not see how consensus can ignore or override reliable sources. Saying that cities are settlements is pushing a neologism againt reliable sources. -- Donald Albury 23:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion is now taking place at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements)#Settlements SilkTork 11:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Loxahatchee Groves, Florida

Palm Beach County map done, plus I have an added bonus for you:

Bastiq▼e ^demandez 22:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Nice! Thank you. Now I guess I have to create the article for Loxahatchee Groves. [sigh] -- Donald Albury 23:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Mediation request

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Morikami Park, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.

It's kind of hard to respond to a non-existant request. -- Donald Albury 00:22, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Check here. It's there, but not there. Just bizarre. What a surprise. --Ebyabe 00:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I still don't see it. Like I don't have enough to keep me busy. -- Donald Albury 00:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Found it. It's Morikami_Park/. That's what's on the mediation page. And added by Mokumbear. Though the notice was added to our pages by anonymous IP. Figures.

Ironic, I think. If he took the energy he's spending on this to, say, work more on organizing his boycott, he'd get so much more accomplished. Or maybe even try to get an interview in an area newspaper. Then, golly, there'd be a legit citation for it all. Oh, but that would make sense. ;) --Ebyabe 01:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah well! I'll take a look at it. -- Donald Albury 01:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's his show. I'll just wait to see if he can figure out how to fix it. -- Donald Albury 01:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

It's now at the actual link in the first message. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 04:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Pics thanks

Thanks for getting more Palm Beach historic pics. Keep up the good work, sir! :) --Ebyabe 01:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Yesterday's session didn't work out very well. I took shots of some other buildings, but they came out so poor I didn't bother to upload. The display on the camera I'm using is too faint to see when I'm outdoors, and I missed how bad they were. I also have to admit that some of these building don't really look like much. -- Donald Albury 01:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

My camera has that problem a bit, too. When it's a bright sunshine-y day, great for pictures, the display gets washed out. I'm always trying to shade it, but that only helps partly. And I know what you mean about the places. I've been through historic districts that are mostly composed of mobile homes. I'm thinking "These are historic?" Then I'll see an actual historic-type building, and it doesn't look much better.

I just finished uploading all the pics I took last weekend. Saturday I went panhandle-ey (Monticello, near Tallahassee) and worked my way back. Then Sunday I drove south to Brooksville and worked my way north. Almost got incarcerated, too, when I took pics of the Crystal River Nuclear Power Plant. You know, when a sign says "Only authorized personnel beyond this point," it's kinda a good idea to pay attention. Still, they let me keep my camera and the pics I took, since they determined I wasn't a wacko. Well, a dangerous-terrorist-type wacko, anyway. Rigth after I hit Crystal River Archaeological State Park, the last place I could get pics, 'cause it was near sundown. All-in-all, I prolly got around 200 decent pics out of the 450 or so I took. So, lots of good pics and I didn't get arrested, I'd call that a good weekend. ;) --Ebyabe 01:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Any day you don't get arrested is a good day. :-) -- Donald Albury 01:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Morikami

I saw you talking about morikami on AN/I. Are you from the West Palm Beach area? ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 20:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

After further review of the dispute, would you do me the favor of keeping me informed of what's happening? I can very easily travel to Morikami and get any sources needed to prove/disprove what the other editor is inserting. I'm probably heading down there in another 2 weeks (I'm up in tallahassee at the moment) ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 20:22, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Uggh, it's in mediation now? I'm sorry. Well, please let me know if it ever gets to arbitration, I'll join in as a party. There's really not much that I can do while it's in mediation though, and I'm afraid I'm probably not impartial enough for it. ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 18:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I found the customer review here both interesting and familiar. And possibly an indication of original research? So he's not just doing it here... *sigh* --Ebyabe 19:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting reaction to a book of about 5,000 words that is labeled 'juvenile literature'. I lost faith in bios written for young readers the time (when I was about 10) that I found one about Virginia Dare. -- Donald Albury 21:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I would be very suprised if this made it to Arbcom, but then I didn't expect a mediation request on it either. -- Donald Albury 21:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party has been accepted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Morikami Park. For the Mediation Committee, ^demon[omg plz] This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to open new mediation cases. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

Off topic

This might seem a bit odd, but when was the last time you been down to Miami? Don't you miss it? 74.225.198.131 23:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I was in Coconut Grove a week ago yesterday, and while I miss the Miami that was, it has changed too much since I lived there. I don't like the traffic and the crowding. -- Donald Albury 23:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll agree with you. Sometimes it gets really annoying trying to make your way around the city. Did you graduate high school in here? Where do you live now? 65.9.49.101 02:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Graduated from North Miami in '61. I live in Palm Beach County now. -- Donald Albury 02:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Sanibel, Florida 2nd opinion

Hi, Dalbury Not sure this addition about Sanibel-Captiva Conservation Foundation is appropriate. Looks off topic and soapish to me, but I don't want to revert without second opinion. Thanks,

Cheers, :) MikeReichold 15:35, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't look too bad to me. Of course, it needs to cite sources, especially for the importance of the organization to the municipality of Sanibel. So, if it is de-puffed and sourced, it should be OK. -- Donald Albury 16:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Reply re userfication

Sounds good to me, I'm working on the notability guideline cleanup and an article of my own right now, so it'll be a bit before I mess with that. I'll let you know if I start a draft, please do the same if you do! Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me Please review me!} 16:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Re your Algae as Protist discussion

I was fascinated by your citation of tolweb.org. Is WikiProjectTreeofLife meant to refer to that site in some way? I had been thinking of "tree of life" as a metaphor instead. Perhaps Wikipedia taxonomies should be derived from there? Unfortunately, very few algae seem to listed there. I tried searching for some this afternoon.

Also, please forgive my ignorance on this point. I am unfamiliar with the acronym OR. What does that mean? Peter 00:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Tolweb.org is an interesting site, maintained by professionals in the field. It is, of course, no more authoritative than many other sources. It is trying to be comprehensive, but there are a lot of gaps in its coverage. "Tree of life" is just a metaphor used by many aources. I like the particular page I cited because it does indicate the great variety of lines and uncertainty of classification in Eukaria. Protista, to my amateur eye, looks like a grade rather than a clade, a catch-all for most single-cell (more or less) eukaryotes that have not been convincingly included in one of the major clades. I do notice that [2] lists different types of algae in Cryptomonads, Haptophytes, Red algae, Stramenopiles and Viridaeplantae. All in all, I think tolweb.com is worth looking at when considering how to classify something in a taxobox, but it is not comprehensive for all clades, and contributing editors must execise judgement.

OR is original research, as defined in our policy. -- Donald Albury 00:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Larry Bird in Naples

regarding the naples, florida article larry bird does have a residence in naples. I have personally been there and met him. he used to liv here full time and his son went to my sons school.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Parkerparker222 (talk • contribs)

But you can't add that to Wikipedia unless you can cite a reliable published source. Please see the policy at Wikipedia:Attribution. -- Donald Albury 16:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Burt Reynolds

I have moved this conversation to where it belongs, at Talk: Burt Reynolds.

Not to mention WIKI clearly states "unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately," Rogue Gremlin 04:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

BURT

If you have admin rights they should be seriously called into question for abuse of power, for your manipulation of Burts page, By removing my validated stuff, and adding your "unsouced or poorly sourced stuff" in its place.Rogue Gremlin 04:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Map of Tampa

done. (and Hillsborough County, Plant City and Template Terrace. whew!) Bastiq▼e ^demandez 18:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice. Tampa has sure grown since the last time I looked. I hope that will make the crtics happy. -- Donald Albury 18:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Morikami park

More comments. Thanks -Stevertigo 04:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

McCarthy, McCarthyism

I am inviting all recent editors of Joseph McCarthy to comment on a current dispute. User:KarlBunker, in his stated view out of concern for WP:NPOV#Undue weight, has reverted, deleted, and selectively reinstated factually accurate sourced information that I have added. I contend he is in error. Please see the discussion at Talk:Joseph McCarthy. Thank you. Kaisershatner 17:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Format of dates in Wikipedia articles

Hello, I noticed your comment, formatted full dates per MoS (this is a U.S. article, use U.S. date format)) accompanying your edit of the Chalk's International Airlines article, and I wanted to let you know that I believe you may be mistaken about date formats.

Wikipedia does have a guideline that articles on U.S. personalities and companies should use American spelling, and articles on U.K. personalities and companies should use British spelling. But when it comes to date format, all dates should be in one of two wikiformats; the particular "U.S. date format" or "everywhere else in the world date format" that displays on a user's screen is the results of the user's my preferences settings. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates containing a month and a day for examples, and this article at meta.wikimedia for technical info.

Since properly wikilinked dates show up on the screen in the format preferred by the individual user, the commas you inserted into the article have no effect. Best —SaxTeacher (talk) 00:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Date formats related to topics. -- Donald Albury 01:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Lightvessels in Ireland

I have proposed merging Lightvessels in Ireland with Lighthouses in Ireland. You were involved in a previous discussion on the matter. As a courtesy I am notifying you now so that you can participate in the new discussion if you are interested. Ta. Frelke 08:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Cited

Please note that the whole paragraph was cited to Encyclopedia of Islam, Muhammad article. The idea that Muhammad was originally a Christian was a widely-spread medieval (incorrect) conception. We can add that in more details if you would like. --Aminz 02:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

The Encyclopedia of Islam On-line is a subscription service, and I was unable to view it. The only Google hits I found for the items in that paragraph were the Wikipedia article itself. There hopefully are other, more accessible, sources for the theme of that paragraph. The conceit that Mohammed was originally a Christian is mentioned in a footnote in a copy of Dante's Divine Comedy that I have (as explanation of why he and Ali were found among the "Sowers of Discord").

The quotation that I hid has occasioned a complaint. In looking at the paragraph, it was not clear to me what the source of that quotation was. I think that, due to the nature of that quotation, we need to very clear what the source is. -- Donald Albury 03:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that wasn't clear. The EoI is a subscription service, but I can provide the relevant quotations of it. Regarding Dante, here is the full quote:

Again more committed to Latin Christian polemics are Brunetto Latini's Livre dou Tresor (composed before 1267, enlarged after 1268), in which Muḥammad is represented as a former monk and cardinal, and Dante's Divina Commedia, where Muḥammad finds himself, together with ʿAlī, among the sowers of discord and the schismatics, being lacerated by devils again and again (Inferno, canto 28). The Legenda Aurea of Jacob de Voragine (composed 1250-80 in Italy, translated into German from the middle of the14th century) stands also in this tradition. Here the motive of the renegade priest who assists Muḥammad in obtaining power with the help of a trained pigeon, which picks seeds from his ear (cf. Vincent of Beauvais, Speculum historiale), is combined with the story of Sergius (cf. Petrus Venerabilis, Summa totius haeresis Saracenorum): the Nestorian (or Jacobite) monk Sergius functions as Muḥammad's secret counsellor, and he passes off his instructions as orders of the Holy Ghost. Falsified Christian doctrines came into the Ḳurʾān through the intermediary of Sergius.

Cheers, --Aminz 03:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Citation for fellatio

Hi, you asked for citation on facial fellatio. See here. If you're interested, I can send you some movieclips. I don't know if they can be used as a source, but it will benefit your knowledge, in case you're not aware of the act. --Thus Spake Anittas 13:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Image deletion question

The first revision of Image:TeacTopCassetteDeck.jpg seems to have been accidentally uploaded by a user and contains an image of their family. The uploader is a banned sockpuppet of a banned user, but just the same I think it would be best to delete the revision. I didn't know the process to use since the whole image doesn't need to be deleted, just the previous revision. Please point me in the right direction if you can't help. Thanks. --Dual Freq 02:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Disregard this message, WP:AN handled it for me. --Dual Freq 16:50, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics todo feedback

I recently constructed an attempt at a more organized WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics open tasks template, but I haven't received any responses on the project talk page. If you could take a look at the test: User:Mitchoyoshitaka/WPTL todo and comment on it, I'd greatly appreciate any feedback or criticism! mitcho/芳貴 02:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

OTRS about Shane Ruttle Martinez

You may want to check out similar content, from the very same source, at Marcell Rodden. Uncle G 15:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Private Eye

I notice in one of your edits you state that "Private Eye' is a satirical magazine, and not a reliable source for Wikipedia". I'm a bit confused about this, while private eye does contain a fair amount of satirical material, that is not the whole of the magazine and the majority of the articles are fairly sober pieces pulling on a number of sources - it's not hard to tell the two apart. It's not a satirical magazine in the way that the Onion is. --Fredrick day 14:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I was going by the opening line in Private Eye, "Private Eye is a fortnightly British satirical magazine-newspaper". Moreover, if it does mix serious news with satire, how does one tell which is which? In any case, if an item is truly notable, it will have appeared in a more straight-forward news source. -- Donald Albury 14:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

It's done in sections - News sections are clearly labeled as such and appear at the front of the magazine. I don't see anything in WP:RS or anywhere else that precludes it as a source. --Fredrick day 14:26, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Big Bend (Florida)

Thanks for fixing the references. Whoever had edited the article previously did a pretty good job of breaking it; I thought I had fixed it all, but obviously missed the cites. Horologium talk - contrib 21:50, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Detractors and allegations

I added a footnote to Clyde Lewis#Detractors and allegations, covering the circumstances of Parlaman's suicide. If this is marginallly sufficient, then please remove your {{fact}} tag. If it is not marginally sufficient, then perhaps some clarification on the discussion page would be appropriate. (I'm not myself sufficiently well-versed in things Lewis to add more than I have.) —SlamDiego 14:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

The whole paragraph is a problem, as the existence of the charges against Lewis is supported only by a source that I think clearly does not meet the criteria of WP:RS. -- Donald Albury 15:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Well, I think that you should express this on the discussion page. —SlamDiego 17:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

User talk:JzG

Have a look at what you left for guy on his talk page about the premmie article. I have done some work on it. Viridae^Talk 23:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Saw that. Saved me some work. :-) -- Donald Albury 00:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Tanya Kach

This deletion was listed on DRV. I have recreated the article as a placeholder so that the debate can take place at AfD instead of DRV, which doesn't always work so well; this is vaguely an experiment per my post at WP:AN#WP:DIGNITY deletions. It would probably be good if you explained your decision in the debate, which is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tanya Kach now. Mangojuice^talk 14:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:Jupiterinletlh.JPG listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Jupiterinletlh.JPG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. howcheng {chat} 21:14, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

St. Pete Meetup time!

St. Petersburg Meetup Where: Bishop Tavern, 260 1st Avenue North When: June 29, 2007, starting at 6 p.m. This box: view • talk • edit

Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 05:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Source for Tequesta

I noticed that you were the primary author of most of the article on the Tequesta, and I have a question on a statement in the final paragraph, which is not referenced. You mention Bernard Romans noting that he only saw abandoned Tequesta villages in the 1770s. Do you know where you found that? I'm working on totally rewriting and expanding the history section for Fort Lauderdale, and I'd like to include that, but I need to know which reference to find for the cite. (It's not in either of the online sources, so I'll need to go dig through a book or two.) Thanks. Horologium t-c 21:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I think that would be either:

• Bullen, Adelaide K. (1965). "Florida Indians of Past and Present". In Ruby L. Carson & Charlton Tebeau (Eds.), Florida from Indian trail to space age: a history (Vol. I, pp. 317-350). Southern Publishing Company, or
• Sturtevant, William C. (1978). "The Last of the South Florida Aborigines". In Jeral Milanich & Samuel Proctor (Eds.). Tachagale: Essays on the Indians of Florida and Southeastern Georgia during the Historic Period. Gainesville, Florida: The University Presses of Florida. ISBN 0-8130-0535-3.

I would have to access the books to be sure, and our city library is closed this week. Maybe I'll get a chance next week to check on it. This kind of thing is why I now footnote almost every paragraph with page citations. I wish I had started doing that earlier.

OK, I'll leave it out for now. I was hoping (but not expecting) you might remember which book was the one. I'll check with the library here in G'ville and see if they've got them. The second one is from the University, which is a good sign. Two refs to search is a lot better than eight or nine... (grin) Horologium t-c 22:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

your tag on Samuel Eliot Morison‎ page

{{refimprovesect|date=July 2007}} Please suggest what additional reference you are requesting to Morison page. Thank you. Skywriter 13:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

That section has no proper citations. An ISBN tag and an author's last name and page number (for separate statements), with no further information, is no help to anyone trying to verify the information. I presume the sources exist, they just need to be cited properly. -- Donald Albury 13:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

?

you put this on my page "Violation of BLP, Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions, including your edits to Talk:Burt Reynolds. As a member of the Wikipedia community, please be aware of Wikipedia's policy that biographical information of living persons must not be libelous. Any controversial statements about a living person added to an article must include proper sources. Thank you. -- Donald Albury 11:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)"

• Tell me what i put on his page that was libelous, because if you were frefering to this "The bottom line is, It is obvious Burt is one of the biggest liars in Hollywood. He made some great movies, but has told so many lies about so many things. He'll probably say next, that he was born on Mars although he is of half-Jupiterarian descent, he dated Princess Leah, and was drafted Venus Vegetarians." The is an opinion stated in the talk section, so it isn't libelous, and citation have already been made, if he tells some he was born in one place and others that he was born somewhere else, it does in fact make one of those a lie, when he says he was drafted by the baltimore colts, and yet through every draft record in history it says he wasn't , it is also a lie. and if you check on here there are citations proving he was never drafted.Rogue Gremlin 20:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons states in the second paragraph:

"Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material—whether negative, positive, or just highly questionable—about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space."

I think that is very clear. Your comments were unsourced, and were very negative. -- Donald Albury 21:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• Were the comments, negative "yes", were the unsourced, "no" if you read you will see the sourcesRogue Gremlin 22:48, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • also you know te part about birthplaces and check here for draft info http://www.drafthistory.com/years.html

Burt Reynolds' Birthplace...source citing and 'notes'...

Hello Dalbury,

I've noticed you have commented on the Burt Reynolds discussion page awhile ago, and since then I have added a lot of information on the birthplace discussion as well. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Burt_Reynolds#Burt.27s_Website

Anyway, its my impression that Rogue_Gremlin is 'hijacking' this site and refusing to allow anything other than his opinion to be reflected on the main page regarding the birthplace debate. At best we get the 'neutral': "While most sources give Burt Reynolds' birthplace as Waycross, Georgia (Birthplace. The Biography Channel.). Reynolds himself said on Dinah Shore, Carol Burnett, Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas and Johnny Carson he was born in Waycross, Georgia. It alludes in Reynolds autobiography that he was born in Lansing, Michigan Reynolds. P. 10. Burt's website is now up and running, but it doesn't mention either Michigan or Georgia, it only mentions his hometown in Jupiter, Florida."

That is out of date (his official website and his autobiography show that he was born in Lansing). On 3 separate posts on the discussion page, Rogue made it clear he was going to let Burt's Official site 'settle it' and now that they've come back and said that he was born in Michigan, not surprisingly, he has abandoned that plan and instead decided to attack the integrity of Burt's site and leave things as they stand at disputed. I can live with "disputed" listed as his birthplace as long as the notes attached to it are completely neutral (and maybe refer to the discussion page where a number of sources have been provided) They are not currently. I'm sure if we said "Burt's official website and his autobiography say he was born in Lansing. The Chicago Sun Times says he was born in Waycross", Rogue wouldn't consider that neutral either.

Anyway, I'm wondering what can be done to at minimum have the site's neutrality enforced. In my opinion, we've more than proven Burt Reynolds was born in Lansing, but again I can live with 'disputed' as long as the comments attached to it our completely neutral. Thanks. JSDA 23:21, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I walked away from this dispute a while back as the Request for Comments I stated drew very little participation, and the hassle of dealing with the article was more than I wanted at the time. I looked at Burt's official web site within the past hour, and I don't see where his birth place is given. For the record, I am convinced that Burt Reynolds was born in Lansing, but I don't see the reliable sources to establish that incontestably (he certainly ducked the issue in his autobiography). What I do see is a lot of original research from both sides of this dispute. For now, I intend to stay out of the dispute. -- Donald Albury 23:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

• • No problem, I can certainly understand how someone would tire of the discussion. I can keep plugging away myself. I wasn't so much concerned with Lansing being listed as his birthplace. I know Rogue will never be convinced he is from Lansing no matter how much evidence he sees, and therefore it will always be considered 'disputed'. I just wanted to make sure description of the dispute was noted neutrally. In my opinion, it isn't currently (I'm talking about on the main page, when you click on the '1' (note) next the 'birthplace disputed' (under Burt's photo). I was going to edit that myself to make it more neutral, but apparently I don't have the rights to do that (or if I do, I don't see how to do it). Thanks. JSDA 23:41, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

• • • Oops, I missed your comment that you didn't see where Burt's birthplace was listed on his official website. Here is the link:

http://www.burtreynolds.com/features.personal_faqs/ JSDA 00:43, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

• • • • Hi Donald, I just saw your most recent edit on the article page, and I'm a little confused by the reference "rv, a citation to a specific reference per WP:CS is needed, you cannot cite the talk page as a reference". Not sure what 'rv' is (unless you meant 'rg' for RogueGremlin?), but that was actually my edit, not his (might have been confusing because I put it at the end of his comment). I was just trying to steer people to the 'discussion page' for more info on the dispute (not to reference a particular item (if thats how it looked). I notice on your July 9th edit, you updated "For more details and sources, see the discussion page.</ref>"...thats the same thing I was trying to do there.

Also, as far as references go, maybe I'm just missing it, but Rogue keeps stating that "Burt Reynolds has said.." and then his sources for this appear to simply be websites that give Burt's birtplace as Waycross, not anything showing that Burt actually said he was born in Waycross. Doesn't seem like an accurate representation of the source to me. I could say "Burt Reynolds has said he was born in Lansing" and then refer to a website that lists his birthplace as Lansing, and that would be the same thing. No? JSDA 16:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

'rv' is short for 'revert'. Please cite a published reliable source for anything you add to the article. Saying that the family appears in city directories for the period appears to be original research, which is not allowed. Both you and RogueGremlin have been trying to inject original research into this article. We can only use what has been published in reliable sources, as is stated in the policy at Wikipedia:Verifiability. -- Donald Albury 16:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

• • Got it. This being the case, I'd assume this means Rogue's comments that "Burt has said..." can be removed until he shows a reliable source that shows Burt Reynolds saying he was born in Waycross, not just websites listing Waycross as his birthplace? JSDA 17:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Websites are considered to be "published". A determination of whether they are "reliable sources" is made the same way as for paper sources. As a rule, however, blogs, forums and self-published websites are not considered to be "reliable sources". RogueGremlin's references to what anyone has said on TV talk shows appears to be original research. Unless he can cite reliable published sources for those claims, I will remove them. As for the city directories, while you might be able to cite (book title, publisher, year) one for saying a person with such-and-such name lived in a certain city in a certain year, you cannot draw any conclusions from that. -- Donald Albury 17:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

• • • • Got it, thanks. If anything, this debate is helping me become familiar with Wiki policies and procedures. :) JSDA 17:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Miami-area special project: Your input needed!

Dear Dalbury,

You appear to be active in WikiProject Miami, or have contributed a lot recently to Miami-related articles. I would like to invite you to contribute your opinions on a grant proposal for a project that may provide unique and helpful resources for Wikipedia in Miami.

Over the last six months, Wikipedia and Wikinews have been discussing a project proposal with the Knight Foundation which could create a new type of an environment for locally-oriented encyclopedic and news content. The general idea involves an official sanctioning of a local Wiki community in one or two charter areas, one of them being Miami. The Wiki community would be empowered to cover all things Miami -- even things that normally would not pass notability restrictions -- and cover both encyclopedic information as well as current events in the South Florida community. The proposal may even involve the creation of a physical "wiki space": some sort of a local room or office to coordinate efforts and provide community members with a place to create and edit articles.

I'm working on formalizing the proposal, and would like to invite you and other Miami contributors to a project brainstorming session via chat. The chat will take place this Saturday, July 14th, at 12 noon Eastern Time (9am Pacific). If enough people can't make it there will be an additional repeat meeting at some later time.

The online meeting will happen using IRC on the channel #wikipedia-miami -- you can use your own chat client or the use this handy link to join the chat. Please don't forget to provide your username when you log into chat.

I look forward to talking with you. Thanks! -- IlyaHaykinson 04:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Ocala, FL Campus of Rasmussen College

Rasmussen College has a campus in Ocala, FL: see footer at http://www.rasmussen.edu for source.

Sorry, but Webster College, which is a subsidiary of the company that owns Rasmussen, is in Ocala. That is not the same as saying that Rasmussen has a campus there. -- Donald Albury 18:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

HMS Tyger (1647)

Nice work onthe HMS Tyger (1647) article. Kudos to you, sir! --Kralizec! (talk) 04:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! -- Donald Albury 20:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

On 12 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article HMS Tyger (1647), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Andrew c ^[talk] 00:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

(This was added to my talk page erroneously, I'm giving credit where it is due.) Rigadoun (talk) 20:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I had been watching the nomination, so I knew already. :-) -- Donald Albury 20:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

burt

So should everything referencing his autobiography be removed also, since there is no link to the autobigraphy itself?. Because only providing a year of a book and an ISBN # to a book that is out of print, is no different than me providing the shows title and the year of the episode as a source. Because by just providing the book # you are saying we have to find an out of print book and read it ourselves. So should I know begin the deletion of all the stuff linked to his unsourced autobiography?Rogue Gremlin 23:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

• you say material is unsourced, which is not true. Gave the source and year of the episode.Rogue Gremlin 23:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research (both of which are policies) and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Everything in Wikipedia must be verifiable from reliable published sources. Burt Reynold's autobiography is published and available in libraries and from used book sellers (I just looked and Amazon has 214 copies available). To cite the television interviews, you will need to tell us where they (or the transcripts of the shows) have been published, and identify the shows, the date each aired and the approximate elapsed time in the show when the comments were made. The recordings or transcripts (published by a reliable source) of the shows will also have to be publicly accessible to at least a sizeable fraction of the Wikipedia audience (on-line, in a reasonable number of public libraries, etc.) for purposes of verification. -- Donald Albury 23:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The autobiography you speak off, is not on-line or in a reasonable number of public libraries available to the wiki audience. So why is citing an out of print book reliable. So I guess if I just cite biographies books, with ISBN# you will have no choice but to stop. Don't worry I'm gonna be doing a bunch of changing soon, with biography books with ISBN#'s unless you find a link to an on-line version of the autobigraphyRogue Gremlin 00:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• also I can provide the name of the show, approx air date and time in the show when comments are made for several, and once i do either they stay or ALL autobigraphy stuff comes off.Rogue Gremlin 00:10, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The recorded shows or transcripts of the shows published by reliable sources will have to be available for verification. As for the availability of Burt's My Life, 95% of the U.S. public libraries listed on http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0786861304#North_America have one or more copies. If your local library does not have a copy, it should be able to get you one through Interlibrary loan. You also could pick up a copy cheap on Amazon or eBay. Now, tell me where I can borrow tapes of the interviews in which Burt talked about being born in Waycross. Better yet, tell me who has published transcripts of those interviews. -- Donald Albury 00:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• • Rogue, for what its worth, I don't mind your TV interview sources being included at all as long as we are shown that they say what you say they do. As I've said, I wouldn't be surprised if Burt did say he was from Waycross somewhere. The problem for me is, Lugnut & I have provided the images of most of the sources we've cited (save the city directories) so people can see for themselves what they say. With the sources you're citing, you're asking everybody to just take your word for it, or somehow go hunt down video of these old interviews (if thats even possible) to see if they say what you claim. Seems to me (and maybe its just my perception) that if you're citing a source, the burdon is on you to show it's legit, not on us to show it isn't. Anyway, as I said on the discussion page, if we want to just keep editing eachothers additions every day, I guess thats what we'll have to do, but it seems pretty silly to me. I don't see what the problem is with simply stating that there are several sources showing Burt was born in Waycross and Lansing, and then referring to the discussion page for more info on the subject. Why the continued attempts of one-upmanship on the article page when we both know its just going to result in the page being edited immediately by the other camp? I'm perfectly content with no birthplace sources for either camp being listed on the article page (and just referring to the discussion page for more info), but if there is any attempt on the article page to imply that Waycross is his birthplace, thats of course going to meet with Lansing info and an editing free-for-all (as we've all seen). By the way, I guess you can add conflicting biography ISBN# info to the article page, but I wont be losing much sleep since it can simply be countered at every turn with "Thats not what his AUTO-biography shows". By all means, feel free to further clutter the article page with the birthplace debate and more daily sword fighting. I'm not going anywhere. Still seems silly to me, but I'll continue to fight the silly fight along with you if thats the road you want to go down. Should we wear clown noses? JSDA 05:27, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

You are wrong about 95% having a copy of his book. PLease show proof of this fact. Because it is up to you to prove that book is accessible.Because I was born and live in the largest land mass city in the continental U.S. with over 1 million people and plenty of public libraries non of which have a copy, not only that book no bookstore can order it as it is out of print. So show your proof that it is IN 95% of the libraries across the U.S. or be forced to have all of that books so-called sourced material removed according the the wiki rule you posted. And you just proved another point. You are saying I have to go out and find the a copy of the book, but you do not have to find the TV shows. You say i should have to go hunt the book or buy it. But you want me to give you a link to the tv shows. Contradicting yourself. So in that case if the tv stuff stays removed til i provide a link or proof it is accesible to most wiki users, you will have to do the same, provide a link to the book, or PROOF it is in most of the libraries in the U.S. or I will be removing all stuff sourced from that book until it isa provided. ThanksRogue Gremlin 16:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• • "You are saying I have to go out and find the a copy of the book", on the discussion page you criticize people for not being real Burt fans like yourself, yet you don't have a copy of his autobiography? Shame Rogue...shame. "You say i should have to go hunt the book or buy it. But you want me to give you a link to the tv shows." I'm sure you have a copy of the book. Its easy to find if not. Where are the transcripts of these TV interviews? Saying "Its out there" is not providing proof that anyone can easily verify. JSDA 17:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• Here is my proof which puts the ball back in your court. There are an estimated 117,378 libraries of all kinds in the United States today.

Public libraries (administrative units)

9,207
Centrals *
9,047
Branches
7,502
Buildings
16,549

Academic Libraries

3,653
Less than four year
1,379
Four year and above
2,148

School Libraries

93,861
Public schools
76,807
Private schools
17,054

Special Libraries * * 9,181 Armed Forces Libraries 302 Government Libraries 1,174 Total 117,378 http://www.ala.org/ala/alalibrary/libraryfactsheet/alalibraryfactsheet1.cfm So provide me with a list over 60,000 libraries that have it, and not a list of a hundred or I will be forced remove it until you do. I had left all your work from that book, as long as you kept things neutral. But since you see fit to remove my work as unsourced, yours too has been proven unsourced by your own actions, so until it becomes sourced I will be removing itRogue Gremlin 16:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• • YOU criticizing anyone on 'neutrality' is hilarious. Intially I had the reference just saying that there is a great deal of debate as to whether Burt was born in Waycross or Lansing (with reference to the discussion page). As neutral as it gets. That wasn't good enough for you. You had to start throwing in your "Burt has said Waycross" stuff on top of it. You continue to drive the editing/deletion storm. Neutral? Ha! Like I said, feel free to edit away. I'll be happy to return serve as long you want. I'm not going anywhere. How funny is it that you're talking about deleting his AUTOBIOGRAPHY as a source because you're angry that people wont just take your word for something we can't verify? I'm sure everyone will see the hilarity of that because I'll be bringing it up with every edit. JSDA 17:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It's not about taking my word, the proof in those shows is out there. I was fine with the page the way it was. I will place it back the way it was, Waycross stuff in one section, lansing in the other, but once the waycross stuff is removed so shall everything referencing lansing from the autobiography because it does not meet wiki standards as a source.Rogue Gremlin 17:26, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• • • • • "the proof in those shows is out there" Well, I asked about those interviews at Blockbuster, but somebody else must have already rented them. The problem with having anything beyond "there is debate about whether Burt was born in Waycross or Lansing (see discussion page)" on the article page is that it just turns into a source-questioning/editing free-for-all (as we've seen). It would be nice if we could at least keep our daily arguements to just one page (the discussion page), but I wont hold my breath waiting for that. JSDA 17:49, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• there are 117,000 libraies in the U.S. alone the list of libraies the book is at is under 200, 200 of 117,000 is NOT 95%, but it is closer to the fact that it is NOT accessible at 95% of the libraries.Rogue Gremlin 17:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

GET THIS ARGUMENT OFF OF MY TALK PAGE! -- Donald Albury 19:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• dalbury my comments are to you, 117,000 libraraies in the U.S. the book is available in 200. According to you it is in 95% which is 111,000. So according to the wiki standard you posted, stating it has to be online, or available to the majority of the audience, his autobigraphy does not meet the standards for a source. So autobiography shall be removed until it is. Also this book was canceled and is now out of print.Rogue Gremlin 19:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

RogueGremlim, you have clearly demonstrated that you do not understand Wikipedia policies. Again, please read Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. I also specifically request that you stop using my talk page to present your arguments about sources in the Burt Reynold's article. Please direct your comments to the article's talk page. You have worn out your welcome here. -- Donald Albury 20:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

JSDA, I request that you also confine your arguments to the Burt Reynold's talk page. I don't want you arguing with other users on my talk page. -- Donald Albury 20:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• • Will do. Sorry about that. I get so caught up in the discussion that I forget which page I'm arguing on. JSDA 20:41, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

West Palm Beach, Florida

Re: Styx

Fair enough. I just want to point out that that was not my addition; it was already there when I performed a rather severe copy-edit to fix that history section. There were a couple of NPOV statements and some grievous abuse of the language (not to mention a total lack of citations of any sort) before I went through. (The same could be said of the media section, which also got a rework). I'm not terribly familiar with WPB, so when I went through, I made sure I didn't add anything, only subtract or reword where appropriate.

BTW, the source I had asked about two weeks ago was in one of the two books you cited—Florida from Indian Trails to Space Age: A History. Thanks for narrowing down the list for me. Horologium t-c 23:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I understand. I just thought I would pull the item, as the information I could find on the Web was not consistent. I would note that I found nothing indicating that a hurricane had destroyed the Styx, as the article stated before your edit. I'm glad you found the right book. I went to our city library this week, they had merged the Florida collection into the general collection, and I couldn't find either of those books on the shelves. -- Donald Albury 00:05, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

That's one of the advantages of living near the biggest university in the state (UF). The Smathers Library special collections are quite extensive, and they had four of the five books I wanted for this project. The fifth, unfortunately, is only available in three libraries in the nation—all in Broward and Dade counties. :\ Horologium t-c 00:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

You know, inter-library loan is a wonderful thing, if they're not reference-only type books. Oh, and have any bricks fallen out of Century Tower yet? :) -Ebyabe 00:22, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I've only resorted to an inter-library loan once. There are enough books at the city library to keep me going for a few years yet, and then I keep buying books that will be useful as sources. Oh, and I've barely touched the books on Florida history that my father collected, although they do vary in quality. -- Donald Albury 00:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Ebyabe's comment was directed towards me, since Century Tower is here at UF. I have not heard of any issues with the tower spitting out bricks, but I'm new here and don't attend the University yet. The book I want is most likely a reference-only work on a rather esoteric topic, entitled Jewel in the Wilderness: Fort Lauderdale from Early Times to 1911, written by Dr. Paul S. George, chairman of the Historic Broward County Preservation Board. Horologium t-c 01:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

You don't know [this legend]? I would say that the Century Tower is less likely to lose any bricks now, than when I was there in the early '60s. -- Donald Albury 01:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

If that legend held any water, the tower would be attracting bricks from the other buildings on a campus, like iron shavings to a magnet. (big smile) Horologium t-c 00:52, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Florida missions

Wanted to let you know I created this category at Wikicommons. So if you get any appropriate pics, you know where they may be added. :) -Ebyabe 00:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there really isn't anything left to photograph, other than the replica mission in Tallahassee (and I haven't been to Tallahassee in 4 or 5 years, and have no reason to ever go again). -- Donald Albury 00:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I made b/c there were some artifacts recovered here in Marion County that were on display in a local museum. I do plan on going up to Tallahassee one of these days to get pics of the historic stuff there. And who knows what other odds and ends might be at other museums? Thought I'd letcha know, since you're Florida Spanish mission guy. :) -Ebyabe 00:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I live kinda of far from the mission sites. Maybe I can work up some drawings or a map from the sources. -- Donald Albury 00:52, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

wrong

i did not violate the 3 revert rule, check the edits, none have (rv) none of it was reverts, all 3 were edits not reverts, so i did not violate the 3 revert rule, so check again. Yes I may have added back, what you and JSDA tried to remove. BUt you better check your facts first. Because I did not do it through reverts.Rogue Gremlin 03:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Read Wikipedia:Three-revert rule#What is a revert?. Every time you restored the material that JSDA had deleted, that was a revert. I gave JSDA the same warning. Please also read Wikipedia:Edit war. Edit warring is disruptive, and may bring sanctions on you even if you don't revert more than three times a day in any one article. I personally will not apply any sanctions against either of you, as I have been actively editing the page (it is considered bad form for administrators to use their administrative powers in situations in which they are involved). If you continue to edit war, however, other administrators may take action against you, even if you don't violate the three-revert rule again. -- Donald Albury 12:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 16 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article totoaba, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 23:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Did you know? was updated. On July 19, 2007, a fact from the article St. Johns culture, which you recently created or expanded, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks against Donald. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

High Springs

If you wish, feel free to revert the History section I wrote for High Springs, FL out of existence for now. I will come back with hardcopy references and so forth at some point in the future. (Greetings from High Springs.) Rkharrison 18:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It usually takes me a month or more to get around to dealing with unanswered 'fact' tags. I may find something on this one myself. -- Donald Albury 18:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I got the info from here but I don't know if this is a good enough source to cite. Rkharrison 23:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It's start. I don't have access to anything better. -- Donald Albury 00:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Professor

I am a university professor. Anything I post is legitimate. I don't post anything without prior verifiable sources—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.185.33.25 (talk • contribs)

Please read Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Expert editors, reliable sources and Wikipedia:Conflict of interest -- Donald Albury 01:42, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Jacksonville, Florida - Nickname

All that commotion you caused could have been solved by a old fashioned google [news] search. Thanks! --x1987x^(talk) 16:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I tried to provide a source for one nickname, and another editor sourced a couple more, but someone else removed the citations. -- Donald Albury 23:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

German Miami Page

Hi there,

I would like to work on the German page for Miami. I have tons of new information to add and already have the 'Wiki-code' for the page done.

As I am new to editing at Wikipedia, I'm not sure how to do certain things. What I would like to do is add a column (like the one in the top right corner of the English page), and also add my pictures.

I would very much appreciate anything you can do for me.

Thanks,

Totomitsu

I'm sorry but I'm not the best person to ask about details of formating pages. The Wikipedia:Picture tutorial covers adding images to pages. -- Donald Albury 23:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you know how I could get that column on the German page or where I could get help with that? It would really be great.

West Boca High

You unfairly contested my changes to the West Boca High School article, all I did was add a section for 'The SSS' which is a real group in my school.

If there were other cases of vandilization, I cannot be held accountable because I didn't make them. Could you please change it back to how it was before?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.173.89.182 (talk • contribs)

Your material was unsourced, and I very much doubt you can produce reliable sources for it. Please read the policies at Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. -- Donald Albury 22:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Jupiter Inlet &, Indian River Lagoon

Thanks for your apology. Perhaps you could help me on a small problem. I would like to add a page on Hobe Sound (Waterway). The page Hobe Sound is a redirect to Hobe Sound, Florida. It really should be a disambig page, or should it? Perhaps I should just do the page and add the link at the top of the Hobe Sound, Florida, page. clariosophic 01:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)