Talk:Caucasian Albania
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[edit] Article's Text Has Not Been Developed Through Consensus
I am noticing that the text of the article is not based on consensual agreement in regard to different viewpoints on the history and culture of "Caucasian Albania." In its entirety, it is a concoction of a couple of Azerbajiani nationalsit editors, who have a record of engaging in edit warring and were suspected in sockpuppetry. As a result, the text is based on POVs, and is a weird and poorly organized mix of myths, prejudices and other unencyclopedic entries. Erkusukes (talk) 17:13, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
- Not sure why anon IPs feel free reverting an article to version by User:Erkusukes without any discussion, but this needs to stop. In fact the same IP made only one other edit inserting POV/OR in 2008 Mardakert Skirmishes article.
- Per Meowy's edit, Minorsky source cited in that line says Aluank not Aghuank. So perhaps, he can check the reference before attempting to insert the unreferenced title next time. Atabek (talk) 16:06, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- I cannot be accountable for the inaccurate typesetting of old 1950s books! Maybe Minorsky should have gone to a better publisher. It is, as I have explained (and as an anon editor has also explained at the end of the POV section) an "ł", not an "l", and is thus pronounced "gh". Meowy 19:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- And, please, Atabek do READ what I have written, don't go mindlessly doing reverts of this, like you did with Shusha pogrom. Meowy 19:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- BTW, I don't have access to that specific book by Minorsky, but in his "Studies in Caucasian History" he spells it Alvank with a dot under the "l" to indicate that it is a "gh" sound - i.e. it is not an "l". That method of transliteration is not standard (but there isn't a universal standard anyway though ł is most common), so for a general readership I think it is best to render it in Wikipedia as a "gh". Meowy 19:44, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- I cannot be accountable for the inaccurate typesetting of old 1950s books! Maybe Minorsky should have gone to a better publisher. It is, as I have explained (and as an anon editor has also explained at the end of the POV section) an "ł", not an "l", and is thus pronounced "gh". Meowy 19:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Meowy, please, assume good faith with comments like "mindless". Caucasica IV is not a book but an article from Minorsky (perhaps you should read it first) is publicly available through JSTOR and otherwise, and it does use Alvank spelling. I go by references not by original research like above. And "Maybe Minorsky should have gone to a better publisher.", says who?... Thanks. Atabek (talk) 09:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Atabek, you were banned from editing the Shusha pogrom page for a month after, to quote the administrators words, "failing to actually read either their own edits or Meowy's talk page comments". That is what I was recalling when I warned against mindlessly doing reverts. If you cannot understand the limitations of printed typesetting, and the limitations of using fonts in Wikipedia that many users may not have installed, then leave this issue alone. In the book I cited, Minorsky spells Alvank using an "l" with a dot under it, to indicate it is pronounced "gh", it is not possible to reproduce this character in Wikipedia. Many users' computers will not display the crossed out "l" (ł), so "gh" is the best and most appropriate alternative. Meowy 16:38, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Meowy, your revert warring on a number of articles related to Armenia and Azerbaijan, which comes along with habitual single-sided POV pushing along nationalist lines, has long been a fact in Wikipedia. And I shall also remind you that you were placed on a parole due to some of those disruptions along with other contributors. So perhaps, it's time to WP:AGF and start using a more WP:CIVIL language than words like "mindless" against a contributor, even if you oppose his/her views. Your personal grievances and overzealous assumptions of bad faith above have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this page or your edit.
"Best and most appropriate alternative" would be leaving "l" (in fact as written in Minorsky) and adding a little footnote on the spelling of the letter, rather than frivolously renaming the word, essentially establishing grounds for original research of other editors, claiming Albania originated from some Armenian word "aghu". Atabek (talk) 20:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- It is not original research but a quote coming from primary sources - the works of Movses Khorenatsi and Movses Kaghankatvatsi. You can make assumptions about the phonetics from Russian translations as well as Armenian-language originals. And this is re-confirmed by secondary sources included in the text (like Hewsen). Remember that Movses Kaghankatvatsi borrowed the passage about Arran and the origin of name Aghvank from Movses Khorenatsi's "History of Armenia," text of which is available on the Internet. Erkusukes (talk) 22:49, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
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- According to Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Erkusukes, Erkusukes is one of the sock accounts, possibly of Verjakette. The IP 149.68.31.146 is a sock as well. Enough said. Grandmaster (talk) 10:45, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Interestingly my prior request for CU on this [1] was almost inconclusive despite the obvious cases of sockpuppetry and vandalism involved. Anyways, in light of finding Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Erkusukes, all POV/OR edits by Erkusukes=Merjanov are to be undone. Per this comment, all edits by sock accounts are deemed vandalism [2], I will preserve all other edits made after Erkusukes vandalizing on this page. Atabek (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Reverted copyright violations and the Azeri term. Please provide any historic materials which shows that there was such an Azeri term. And I'm kindly reminding you about the naming conventions in geographic and historic works. VartanM (talk) 18:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I removed the full list of Persian provinces, it is redundant, has no direct relation to this article and takes too much space, a reference to the respective source is sufficient. Grandmaster (talk) 05:14, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Please point to a passage where Movses K. refers to "Udi script" Ironback (talk) 15:11, 12 April 2008 (UTC) This is crude POV. Ironback (talk) 15:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- New user comes and restores all edits of Erkusukes/Jalaleddin/Rovoam. Very fishy. Please discuss first before restoring edits of banned user. I'm waiting for the results of investigation. Grandmaster (talk) 07:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Please point to a passage where Movses K. refers to "Udi script" Ironback —Preceding comment was added at 23:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Ironback, there is a need to first discuss the references or your restorations of banned User:Erkusukes edits. Your latest edits removed large portion of references and restored original research earlier inserted by a banned sock. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 23:42, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Imagine that a user said "Earth is round" and then she gets banned. Does it mean that everyone else should say after that "Earth is flat?" Stop it. You have no idea what you are sayng. Discuss the substance. Ironback (talk) 01:31, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- Note that Ironback is a confirmed sock, so I have rolled back the last edit. I have replied to Ironback's message on the users talk page. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Map
The old map wasn't correct. I uploaded new one that has been made from here. Gülməmməd Talk 05:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
