Talk:Area 51

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• Archive 1 - ended 2004
• Archive 2 - ended 2005
• Archive 3 - ended 2006

Contents 1 Why are unregisted people disabled to improve this article? 2 Improvement is needed 3 If you're gonna vandalise... 4 Green Dots 5 Runways 03 and 09? 6 Letter Image Deletion 7 Area 51 garden? 8 video games 9 Something Weird 10 Addition of Area51 Computers to Other? 11 Other Game References 12 Papoose Lake 13 Environmental Lawsuit 14 Janet (airline) 15 Buildings 16 Visible from Vegas airspace? 17 Black mesa 18 JANET route map 19 Incorrect Info? 20 Accidents 21 Area 51/gvt. relation 22 Area 51 Employee 23 Blackbird Programs 24 Conspiracy Squared? 25 Opening Paragraph 26 The Blurred Sign 27 The Picture With The Sign And The Cammo Dudes 28 Popular culture lists 29 Have Drill/Doughnut/Ferry programs 30 Name? 31 There are no such things as aliens 32 area 51 33 Video of the Google Earth Area 51 Examination

[edit] Why are unregisted people disabled to improve this article?

"Editing of this article by unregistered or newly registered users is currently disabled." Why that? I want to improve the article, but don`t want to become registered. E.g.: I want to insert a picture of the german article into this. But I can´t. That´s a bit stupid! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.0.217.209 (talk • contribs).

• Because people keep vandalizing this article, so the article receives temporary protection and then is unprotected so unregistered users can edit the article. (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont · email} 16:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Now I´m Wikipedian...so improvation can continue...

[edit] Improvement is needed

We could improve this article by writing something about Area 51 employees. Instead of saying something only about famous employees (like Bob Lazer), we could try to find out on internet, more about general things. I´m sure that we can find interesting information! Dagadt

[edit] If you're gonna vandalise...

...at least make it funny, clever or observant. 85.96.126.25 said "Can you see that thing in the pic?(at left top corner is it a UFO????)", referring to the picture of the warning sign at the border. Apart from the fact they mean top right and not top left, it did make me think: what is that small hovering object there? I have a few ideas.

1: It's a security camera. From other pics I've seen the stands they are on are extremely thin (and white) and might not necessarily show up in a photo at range. This is highly unlikely as the stand would have to be ridiculously tall for the camera to appear there.

2: It's a pave-hawk helicopter, in the distance, either coming face on towards the photographer or moving away.

3: It's something else.

4: It is actually an alien spacecraft, sizing us up for mutilation.

5: Some aliens were spotted having strange interaction with each other that was very much how humans would have sex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.16.79.117 (talk) 05:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Sweet dreams everybody :D

It looks vaguely like a helicopter. I believe the cammo dudes modus operandi when faced with unexpected visitors is for the trucks to keep tabs on then until the chopper arrives. If the visitors decide to go for a walk the chopper flies down and swamps them with its rotorwake, kicking up such a storm of dust that the visitors can't see and have to sit tight. The cammo dudes call for the sheriff who takes the visitors away. This is rather a smart scheme, because it means that the visitors didn't actually get detained by the cammo dudes at all, and so can't question a cammo dude in any subsequent legal proceedings. In order to get where he is, the photographer has already driven some distance from the highway (and in doing so has marked himself as worthy of cammo dude attention). So you'd expect the chopper to be around by that time. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:10, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

True, it probably is a chopper, although according to the excellent dreamland resort site detentions are less regular that you suggest, and are almost exclusively reserved for those who actually cross the (poorly marked!) border into the restricted area. The story about the bloke getting a dust storm courtesy of the helicopter on public land seems to be true, however, despite the fact that its clearly harrassment (sp?). From what I've read, cammos go out of their way to avoid being seen - that one in the jeep on the crest of the hill in the pic may well be about to kick into reverse gear! --LemonAndLime 11:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Its a UFO. Seen too many different types helicopters, on the 'net, the news, seen them in person. That thing is not a helicopter. Good, well focused pix. You should place it in the UFO article. Martial Law 09:57, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that it's something strange. Like some kind of animal that has adapted to spend a lot of time in the air, or something. Possibly some kind of alien with hollow bones who's embyro are covered in a hard shell like thing at birth. Oh wait. It's a damn bird. Scotto 20:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Could somebody discribe where this strange object is?

This pic, apparently. ~ Ghelæ ^talk_contribs 19:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the picture! In my opinion it is a small fighter, because when you zoom in on the photo, you can see two angular wings.

They're movable wings, even. It's a bird. Flabreque 02:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Green Dots

Has anyone else seen the green dots north of the Area 51 starting point on Google Earth, just off the extraterrestrial highway? Makabar 17:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they're alfalfa fields. As those seen on the pictures here [1]. The round shape comes from sprinklers on a rotating arm used to irrigate the field. Flabreque 01:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, and yes, this is me, I just forgot my password. Rabakam 16:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the technique is called 'center pivot irrigation'. LorenzoB 22:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Your right,there is a wikipedia page on it here[2]Superworms 01:46, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Runways 03 and 09?

If you look at this on Google Maps by clicking here, you can see what look like two very long extra runways on the lake bed itself, very faintly, at angles from the main runway. One is labelled 03L / 03R, the other is labelled 09L / 09R (you have to zoom in fairly close). Are they runways, and if so why aren't they surfaced like the main runways? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.146.47.250 (talk) 20:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

They are runways, but would only be used in the event of very high crosswinds or an emergency. Flabreque 01:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Letter Image Deletion

I noticed that the letter is up for deletion; there's not much discussion about it, and only two people have actually voted on it. What are people's thoughts? I personally don't have a problem with it. Titanium Dragon 19:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Area 51 garden?

Of all the features of the base this one puzzles me the most: it appears to be a garden. It has bright green trees, and there appear to be two or three waterfalls there too. Why would someone go to the bother of installing a feature like this on a secret airbase in the middle of a desert? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.146.47.250 (talk) 23:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

It is called Slater lake (named after the base commander at the time, Col. Hugh Slater). It used to be a recreational facility for the base personnel during the OXCART project, but is more than likely off-limits nowadays due to the proximity of high power radar gear. Flabreque 02:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply! I thought it might be for purposes of keeping up morale or something, didn't seem to be any other reason to do it. Interesting that they appear to have maintained it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.146.47.250 (talk) 21:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] video games

Someone got it wrong. it is area 53 on GTA:SA. Matt E.

It's actually Area 69 in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas... --GSK 15:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I tried deleting this line:

== Operations at Groom Lake ==Area 51 is a conspiracy where aliens live and lay their eggs. They feed on the insides of humans so it is a hidden operation. Nobody is to know about this operation so shhhhh.

However, the text does not show up on the edit page. It shows the text above and below -- but not this stupid stuff. Can somebody who knows more about editing remove this please?

AJHMOM 03:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)ajhmom

[edit] Something Weird

According to Google Earth, Another lake, at the NorthWest of Area 51, the Satelite image showed that the lake has circles in the center of the lake and on the Northward ground . But The image showed that the lake seemed to have water in it. Do you think this is the place where rumous about the UFOs come from? Here is the coordinate of the place: 37°29'16.29"N 116°13'41.38"W.

If you have ever read wikipedia you will know it is an online encyclopedia. I hardly think it is a place to discuss where aliens (which FYI dont even exist) come from. Also none of the lakes at or near area 51 have any water in them, they are all dry lakes, so i dont know where you are looking. And finally those rings are bombing targets for all the air force training which goes on in the area. Gfad1 15:55, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Of course, it is only your opinion that aliens don't exist...--76.188.151.166 06:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Really, prove that aliens don't exist. There is a very high probability that intelligent life does exist elsewhere in the universe, and alien life has already been somewhat proven to exist(I have read.). The theoretical formula for calculating the probability of the existence of intelligent alien life within our galaxy is : multiply the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy

by the number of stars that have planets

by the number of those planets that can support life

by the number of those planets where life actually arises

by the number of those planets where intelligent life develops

by the number of those planets where technology develops

by the span of time a technological civilization survives.

Application to the Milky Way to estimate how many civilizations like our own exist:There are hundreds of billions of stars in the galaxy, most(or many depending) have planets, and if one or two of the planets surrounding a star are suitable for life, and life arises, and only 1% of the planets where life arises develops a technologically advanced civilization, there would still be millions of worlds like our own out there. I apologize for going off topic.

NorskSoldat 22:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Anon: that lake is Kawich Dry Lake, and the circles on it as, as Gfad1 says, are gunnery targets used by pilots training at the NAFR. Let's face it - if someone was hiding aliens, they'd not be silly enough to leave a big sign on the ground that could be spotted by some teenager on Google Maps, would they? Gfad11: it's not true that the lakes never have any water in them, just not very much, and not for very long. Las Vegas gets around 4 inches of rainfall every year (I was there in January and it poured for three days solid), and Groom gets much the same. In a dry winter it's enough to make the Groom playa squishy, and in a wet one the entire lake will have a few inches of standing water. It can last a week or more like that. This, of course, gives the lie to the nonsense about the "Cheshire Airstrip" (the claimed runway at Papoose Lake which supposedly appears when it's sprayed with water), as it would get nice and wet and visible in the winter rains. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:42, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Addition of Area51 Computers to Other?

Area51 computers is web hosting company founded in 1998 with a name based off of the popular conspiracy that the technology boost came from the ufo crash in Roswell where technology from the craft was moved to area51. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kiamori (talk • contribs) 01:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

Lots of things are named Area 51. Very few of them are remotely notable, and being named after something notable does not make something notable. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other Game References

In Grand Theft Auto: San andreas there is a spoof of Area 51 called Area 69 near "Las Venturas" which is a spoof itself of Las Vegas —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spydript (talk • contribs) 00:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Papoose Lake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u65_-lrXFIk - watch this link and you´ll see why Papoose Lake is amazing! Does anybody knows something about it? In my opinion doesn´t UFO´s excist. I believe there are (X-) planes in the hangar. Dagadt

All the information about Papoose Lake in that video is speculation based mostly on the testimony on of person: Bob Lazar, whose credibility is shaky at best. If you want more info about it, read Dreamland Resort's FAQ or Tom Mahood's Papoose Lake primer. Flabreque 08:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your answer Flabreque! I hope more people will write something down here! Dagadt

[edit] Environmental Lawsuit

It sounds as if the civilian contractor survivors did not get adequate medical treatment for their exposure because the US Gov't wanted to keep secret what kind of substance was burned and the specific method of medical treatment would possibly disclose that?

That would contradict US constitution (right to live) and especially Amendment 14. I can't get why SCOTUS refused to hear the case then?

Why didn't the people try further, e.g. international court of justice? Considering the huge media turmoil when the russkies refused to say what gas substance was used in the theatre raid on chechen terrorists and how they were eventually forced to release halothane / narcothane info for effective treatment of hostages, the same could have been achieved to the Area-51 victims via UN and the press. 82.131.210.162 11:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the workers at that installation signed off some of their rights when they agreed to work there (related example: military personnel are not permitted to make disparaging comments about the president of the US); what the specifics of those agreements were, I don't know, but they may be the reason. If so, then they have no standing to bring it to court. If not, they do. In addition, this might be one of those instances of the "lesser of two evils." While these people might be afflicted with a malady or even dying, their work may be protecting the crews of ships or aircraft. In turn those people are protecting millions of US citizens.

"Why didn't the people try further, e.g. international court of justice?" Because the ICJ has no standing in the United States. Any ruling in that court would not be recognized by the US (almost all international courts are prone to manipulation through political pressure; just look at the UN).

Please understand I am not excusing their actions, merely pointing out that there may be a perfectly reasonable explanation. — BQZip01 — ^talk 14:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Janet (airline)

On that article (discussion) you can read that JANET is maybe called after a girl! In my opinion the story could be true. Does somebody knows something about the author (Janet)? Dagadt

That article has no sources whatever. Wikipedia articles without reliable sources are worthless. The person on the talk page tells a long story, but provides no evidence and cites no reliable sources. Wikipedia articles on secret subjects are perpetually afflicted with people who show up with elaborate stories, complex personal theories, and excessive gibbering about their personal conspiracy claims. We should just ignore these people - only evidence lets us build a better article. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 12:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Buildings

We should create a new article section about the buildings on Area 51. On dreamlandresort.com you can see an amazing map about the Area! We could insert a satelite photo from Google Earth for example label and it. Write your name down here if you want to help me. I´ll contact you on your User site. Dagadt

I don't think dreamlandresort.com is a sufficiently reliable source for detailed exposition of what goes on in a secret base. Don't get be wrong, it's a fine site that doesn't stray into fantasy and conspiracy, but fundamentally it's one guy's website, and he makes no claim that he's been there or seen these things himself. Instead he's repeating and interpreting other people's stories, and the analysis of the buildings etc., while credible seeming, isn't based on official documents or sourced eyewitness testimony. For stuff outside the base (stuff about the cops, groom road, the bus, etc.) then I think he's a perfectly good and reliable source - because he does say he's seen that stuff, and of course that's a perfectly reasonable claim that you or I could easily verify if we bothered to drive out there and sit in the same parking lot. Furthermore, I think the relative positions of Wikipedia and DreamlandResort in the "area 51 information ecology" are compatible: we report the stuff we can verify from reliable sources like Rich and Darlington and government publications, and he reports all the stuff people have told him off the record. While of course I'd love to have more detailed info in the Wikipedia article, I can't find reliable sources to support that; in their absence, dreamlandresort.com makes for a valuable and entertaining external link. And we absolutely positively cannot use imagery from Google Earth - they're copyrighted, and there is no sufficient fair use case to allow their use on Wikipedia. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I remember reading something like "this map was made by Area 51 employees" on the page. You have tu trust in them. 10 years ago you could said: Maybe area 51 excists, but I don´t think so...In my opinion there´s no better source than employees! You can always say: maybe, maybe, maybe, but a map like I want to creat would be very interesting for at least 50% of all Users. Dagadt

No, you don't have to trust them. Wikipedia articles have to be supported by reliable sources - some unsourced map drawn by unnamed persons aren't reliable sources. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, we can write that employees made the map and it´s unclear if it´s true what you can see. At least on Satelite photos you can see buildings which everyone can identified. Dagadt

There's no evidence, from any reliable sources, that "employees" did any such thing. And there's no evidence that "everyone" has identified anything. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/area51/area51map.html Now you can see the map I mean. The label insn´t a secrete, you also can see it in a book about Area 51 - I´m sure!

Dreamland resort is not a reliable source for what goes on inside a secret base. If you're sure there's a book that has the same information, please tell us what that book is. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 14:32, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

We could start a section about speculations of the use of the buildings you can see on Google Earth for example. By the way: The contets of the article "John F. Kennedy assassination" are also speculations! It´s not useless if we give people the possibility to experience more about the buildings...even if it´s mostly speculation! Dagadt

Everything in Wikipedia has to be sourced from reliable sources, even speculation. The Kennedy article (and likewise the 9/11 conspiracy theory article) contains speculations sourced from notable JFK/911 conspiracy theorists, who have written books and articles. What you're talking about is our speculation, or that from any old website, which is just original research, and isn't permitted in wikipedia. I don't understand why you persist in suggesting we despoil our well sourced, nonsense-free article with rubbish from the internet - we can (and do) link to dreamland resort - we should not, and can not, turn this article into a copy of it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok Finlay! We´ll link to dreamlandresort. Dagadt

[edit] Visible from Vegas airspace?

I was just playing around with Google Earth and, based upon it, in theory Area 51 should be visible from any aircraft flying over Las Vegas at an altitude of at least 30,000 feet. Obviously Google Earth isn't a 100% accurate representation of what one might see from such an altitude, but I'm wondering if there is any source that suggests that anyone flying over Vegas (perhaps en route to somewhere else) might be able to see Groom Lake if they know where to look. Just a thought -- this isn't something that can be added without a source. 68.146.41.17 14:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I imagine that the base itself will be very distantly viewable, as you say - probably as something of a nondescript splotch. That would confirm the existence of the base (which really nobody denies) but I don't think there's any chance of anyone seeing anything interesting. Indeed, you can fly much closer to it (Tom Mahood's page details a flight someone took right along the perimeter of the restricted area) in general aviation aircraft. The proximity to Vegas does make it likely that they're less comfortable testing their super-secret stuff there, I guess: back in the '50s Vegas barely existed, and Groom must have seemed like the utter back of beyond. But with Vegas a huge and fast-growing city, Groom probably isn't out-of-the-way enough. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:43, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Well unless you have a 300x zoom along with you you dont have chance of seeing anything and I highly doubt that youll get on a plane with a camera these days (ref. terrorism)

[edit] Black mesa

Area 51 has nothing to do with Black Mesa research facility of Half-Life 1,2, Black mesa is a site east of grand canyon far from Area 51Please remove it from popular culture.

[edit] JANET route map

It would be nice to create a route map and to copy a timetable of JANET! The information you need are on dreamlandresort.com. I can´t create the route map because I´m to bad on computer programs!  :( Dagadt

[edit] Incorrect Info?

I saw something on the discovery channel just yesterday about Area 51 - many of its facts contradict this article. I would find it hard to believe that the Discovery channel would have missed something about the government declassifying it. They said that the US government still denies its existence. Any thoughts? --Falconus 20:34, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Where does this article say they declassified it? It doesn't. It mentions a declassified document with redactions that journalists believe refers to Area 51; we don't say that document definately refers to Area 51, and we don't say the Government says it does, or doesn't. The government neither confirms nor denies anything. The article cites the presedential determinations (such as this one) which says ..."the Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada", and is signed my someone named "William J Clinton" (whoever that might be). We also cite a letter from the Air Force saying "there is an operating location near Groom Dry Lake". These are primary historical sources, one served straight from a US Government website. What sources did the Discovery Channel cite for it's claim that they flat out deny it? - they'll have to be pretty good to contradict a sitting president, the US air force, and the secretary of the air force. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accidents

I heard a JANET plane has been destryed a few years ago. How happened it? Maybe there was an incident at the base... Dagadt

Google is your friend Learn to use it. :-) Flabreque 21:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Area 51/gvt. relation

I remember reading on youtube that the gouverment only knows ca. 20% of all what happens at the base. The source is probably an employee of Area 51. We should trust him 100%, but I don´t know why he should lie and maybe somebody knows more about it...

I'm not sure what you're exactly mraning here. --MichaelLinnear 06:39, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

An employee (identity unknown) working as cammo dude at Area 51 said that the base is like a special gouverment. The president himself only knows less than 20% of all what happens at the base.

[edit] Area 51 Employee

On youtube.com there are several parts from an Area 51 employee (he´s cammo dude). (Look for it under confession of an area 51 employee). The information are very interesting, and he makes a good impression. He says Ufo´s don´t excist, there are 4 floors under the ground (-1 black aircraft, -2 weapons, -3 laboratory, -4 very secret only about 10-15 people have ever seen this floor), and a lot of more!!! I think we could trust him - at least a bit -. I believe every word he says. If somebody is a youtube member, he should contact me on my userpage because you can only write to a user (I want to ask him questions) on youtube if you´re member. Dagadt

You'd have to try pretty hard to find a source more worthless and unreliable than that. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

That´s your opinion! I´m looking for a youtube user, who helps me! If you only want to write "worth things" you can only write about 4 sentences the gvt. told us about the operations at groom lake! Dagadt

Luckily "my opinion" squarely matches the Wikipedia:Reliable sources policy, which I persist in pointing you to, and which you persist on ignoring. You are welcome to believe in whatever unsourced hoaxes you want, but don't contaminate our nice encyclopedia with this crud. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I don´t want to write something about the employee in this "nice" encyclopedia, but I´m looking for somebody who is youtube member and will contact me. Dagadt

Just sayin why do we even listen to them they denied existance when the pictures from the soviet union were right in front of them what ever they know whats going on there they dont share it with the general publice because they think a spy is going to recon and try to find out info on new air craft or some thing else we dont even know whats going on in there they could be watching us and seeing what we are doing and watching what we type on the suject you never know what there doing they never tell us what actuall going on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.152.243.14 (talk) 06:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blackbird Programs

I have removed the section on "blackbird programs". It's worth having in this article, but there's no reason to have an empty section. If someone wants to add some info and put it back, that would be great. -Athaler 17:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Restored - it was vandalized earlier today, which is why you only saw a few words. Thanks for the note. --Ckatz^chat_spy 23:36, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conspiracy Squared?

Has anyone researched the idea that the military may have people in constumes and mysterious-looking planes in order to create rumors of aliens? Collin238 16:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Aviation journalist Nick Cook made a documentary UFOs: the secret evidence (details here) in which he hypothesised that the US government was (or had been, during the cold war) trying to covertly promote UFO sightings in the southwest, with the idea being that anyone who reported seeing a strange thing in the sky would be taken for a UFO nutter and ignored. But he didn't show any real evidence, strayed into cow-mutilation county, and dropped some clangers like claiming Edward Teller was head of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, so it was entirely inconclusive and altogether disappointing. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:29, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Paragraph

The opening paragraph looks like ass. Why do we need to know the length of the runways in the opening paragraph? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.170.101.237 (talk) 11:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

We don't. Fixed. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Blurred Sign

It is not reliable that the sign says "Lethal Force Authorized" which is blurred anyway and might not state that any force is authorized. This is stated by one person without citation. In photos that show people standing nearby the sign there is nothing resembling "Lethal Force Authorized". The only other sites which show such a thing focus on sensationalism, such as poster stores and space alien theories. I also notice that the section of the sign purportedly stating that Lethal Force Authorized seems obscured by a superceding layer under the red words. The new painted words may be a relic of protests or an issuance of relaxed legal constraint or vehicular mandate. Last and never least: there is rarely any US military sign printed by the US military that authorizes lethal force against civilians. (anonymous) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.148.189 (talk) 13:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

It's true that the Wiki pic is a bit blurry, but the last line of red text in the bottom right corner really does say "Use of deadly force authorised". There are plenty of sites (Dreamland Resort, Webshots, Flickr, images.google.com, etc...) Like this one for example, where you can see high-res images like this, that show it clearly.

There are also signs that have a similar message at Beale AFB, Holloman AFB, and probably many other military installations around the world.

This being said, mentioning it in the image's legend is a bit sensationalist and I don't think the article would suffer if someone wanted to remove it. Flabreque 03:07, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Not only is it used at dedicated military installations around the world, but it's even used at military facilities on civilian installations. For example, at [Portland International Airport], there is an Air National Guard base which houses the 142d Fighter Wing, providing air defense for the Northwestern U.S., has signs just like these. And this is on a public airport. (Obviously, the signs are only on the "Portland Air Base" section. But there is a civilian-airport-employee-use perimeter road that runs right by this section that is used very regularly. Ehurtley (talk) 11:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The sign is largely boilerplate, and (as the article says) they certainly don't immediately shoot people who step over the border. The actual penalty indicated by section 21 of the McCarran Internal Security Act is "a fine of not to exceed $5,000 or to imprisonment for not more than one year, or both", although the fine ($5000 dollars being a lot more in 1950 than now) may have been increased in subsequent acts. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Picture With The Sign And The Cammo Dudes

Hey, does anyone know what that little dot above the plant that's really close to the right edge of the page is. I think it might be a helicopter, but I'm not sure, so what do you think it is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.7.143 (talk) 01:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

It looks like a helicopter. The possibility of a UFO being out in broad daylight at Area 51 is so slim, I can't even describe it. Regardless, I'll look into it a bit more tomorrow. --GSK 01:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

It's probably a bird. Flabreque 15:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I checked my email correspondence with the person who took the picture and he confirms the vehicle is the "cammo dudes", but makes no mention of a helicopter (so I think it's either a bird or just a spec of dirt on the camera). He does say he crashed his car and that the cammo dudes didn't help him out :) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 13:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Popular culture lists

I think the popular culture references to tv shows, movies and video games should be put in a separate (but equal) article "Area 51 in Popular Culture". Are you watchers on board?Mikelj 19:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I think that happened at least once before, but it got merged back in here. I've occasionally tried to thin the list out, but stuff always returns. If I had my way we'd only mention those popular culture things in which Groom was a central or at least significant part - not something mentioned once or twice, not the passing location of a single cartoon. So I would have the Area 51 games, the Dale Brown books, Delta Green, and maybe Stargate. For sure I'd remove all those links whose articles don't mention Area 51 (Family Guy, for example). Stuff that's generally about UFO abduction and saucer conspiracy stuff should be in an article about that (for example this article links to Taken, but that article gives no indication that the TV show is specifically about Groom Lake - if it's just a generic desert base then the link doesn't belong here). Much of the popular culture stuff is just trivial passing mentions. I'd favour a utilitarian approach (where we ask "what reasonable question would a visitor want this section to answer"); I can certainly imagine people asking "what books/games/movies are there about Area 51?" but I think it's nonsense to believe anyone asking "what comedy cartoons have briefly mentioned area 51 in a single episode?". -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 13:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone has indeed forked the content off to Area 51 in popular culture and, unsurprisingly, it's getting AfDed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Area 51 in popular culture. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Have Drill/Doughnut/Ferry programs

I've been poking at articles on on Gail Peck and the Constant Peg program at the Tonopah Test Range (Area 52), and I noticed that this article doesn't have any information on Area 51's programs to study Russian MiGs (including the Have Doughnut, Have Drill, and Have Ferry programs). There's some information in the French Wikipedia: fr:Zone 51. I'm in a bit of a rush right now, but these programs might be worth a mention here. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The trouble with everything Area 51 related is getting reliable references. Even when stuff was done there, when it gets made public (like F117, like SR-71) official sources say it was at Nellis or Tonopah. And of course a lot of stuff really is at Nellis and Tonopah, so it's never safe to assume that everything secret that comes out of that general area must have concered Groom in particular. In this particular case the French Wikipedia appears to source what they have from area51specialprojects.com. I'm not familiar with it, so I've not formed an opinion as to whether it's really a WP:RS, and even then (for stuff like this, when there's such a paucity of solid reference material) it's always nice to have stuff corroborated. I think the Darlington book mentions (in passing) there being Soviet aircraft there, but I'd have to check. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 14:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken, the area51specialprojects site is run by the same folks running the Roadrunners Internationale site, a group of ex-area 51 folks. Dreamland Resort seem to think they're on the up and up, so this is why I used that as a cited reference for the French version of the article. I know that DLR and the above-mentioned sites are nothing more than personal websites on the topic, but as you mention, I don't think we'll see these documents on www.af.mil pretty soon. Flabreque (talk) 21:57, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, if it isn´t clear where the program take place, we could insert it on the Nevada Test and Training Range page, what´s you opinion towards that? Dagadt (talk) 08:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I think you may have missed out the reference to Area 51 in the episode 'Lost our Lisa' of The Simpsons.

Lisa: Area 51!? I found Area 51! Guard: (Guard shuffles nervously) No ma'am this is Area 51A

[edit] Name?

I am unable to find information on the origin of the name "Area 51" on this page. Also the letter from the USAF of which a picture is added says no area by that name is known to them. Who came up with that name (the involved parties active in the area), conspirators, etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.3.176.151 (talk) 12:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Good question. Apparantly, the Nevada test range used to be devided into "areas". Apparantly, the facility at Groom Lake was defined as Area 51 and apparantly is named as such on some older maps of the Nevada test site. As a more transparant example, the Tonopah Test Range is Area 52. The reference used in the wikipedia article there is this document, where Tonopah Test Range is clearly referred to as Area 52. BabyNuke (talk) 13:49, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Here is a map showing the areas of the NTS. I've not been able to find a map old enough to show Area 51 before Lockheed started to use it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 14:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] There are no such things as aliens

If there where aliens at area 51 you couldent get picteres of it and there would be more than 4 guys in a truck with m-16s. Put the logic together. There are no such things as aliens. All they are doing is experimenting with wierd aircraft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bornefromewater (talk • contribs) 22:38, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

How the hell you know that? Been there? In the restricted areas? 205.240.146.247 (talk) 05:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Please be friendly. Realist² ('Come Speak To Me') 06:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It's most likely the truth that tests for new aircraft are conducted there by major DoD suppliers Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc. 71.199.104.170 (talk) 19:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] area 51

Bold text'Italic text area 51 is creepy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.12 (talk) 19:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Video of the Google Earth Area 51 Examination

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AgNrlEqiB30 71.199.104.170 (talk) 19:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)