Talk:Alex Salmond

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Contents 1 2000 Resignation 2 FM 3 Westminster seat 4 Not first minister 5 This article is now inaccurate (wrong)!!!!! 6 MP 7 The Rt Hon? 8 Protection of Article 9 How 10 Name 11 Alex 'Three Salaries' Salmond Shocker!!! We need a controversy paragraph 12 Pictures of SNP leaders 13 nationality 14 Lockerbie bit 15 Photograph 16 Controversy section

[edit] 2000 Resignation

We could do with some explanation of why he resigned the SNP leadership in 2000.86.153.187.1 11:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FM

I removed the comment "He is expected to become the next First Minister of Scotland." This is obviously a contentious statement, and unless a reliable source can be cited to support this it should not be restored. In fact, since this will be decided within 28 days of the election anyway i suggest in the interest of neutral POV (which is expected in an encyclopaedia) this should be avoided altogether.

• We should know in the next few days- BBC report says SNP are speaking to Lib Dems and Greens- but it is not clear what will happen yet. It may be possible to refernece to coalition discussions at this stage only. Thunderwing 15:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Westminster seat

Anyone know if he is planning to stay in Westminster till the next election, and who is the new Parliamentary leader in Westminster? Thunderwing 21:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

— The expectation is that he won't. Angus Robertson is expected to be the new Westminster group leader. Jmorrison230582 22:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not first minister

Salmond has been elected as the parliaments nominee for first minister. See the presiding officer's speech for evidence. But he is not actually in office until appointed by the Queen. See the Scotland Act for further evidence.--Doc^g 12:00, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I quote from the Scottish Parliament's official website: [1] "Alex Salmond MSP was today selected as the Parliament’s nominee as First Minister for recommendation to Her Majesty The Queen."--Doc^g 13:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

• Does the Queen have the power to select someone else, or is she obliged to go with the nomination? Thunderwing 15:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

• • No idea - you'd have to read the Act. But I'd suspect in theory she could. She certainly could refuse to appoint him - although she'd only do that on the advice of UK ministers.--Doc^g 15:42, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

• • • Looking at the Act it says "The First Minister shall be appointed by Her Majesty from among the members of the Parliament and shall hold office at Her Majesty's pleasure"- which suggests she can pick who she likes in the same way as the UK. Thunderwing 15:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

• • • • So, if the Queen's on the ball, there's hop for Jack yet.--Doc^g 16:00, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

• • • • • I don't think the Queen votes Labour.

He is basically First Minister-elect there is much chance of lizzie not appointing him as there is her not signing a bill into law there is very little hope for Joke. --Barryob Vigeur de dessus 20:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

• • • • • • This seems so odd—isn't this the opposite of what happens in Parliament? Doesn't the Queen nominate [not that she has any choice in the matter these days] and then Parliament votes their approval of the Government? Unschool 20:56, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

No - technically the Queen appoints whomever she will. Parliament has no say. It is just that conventionally she always appoints the leader of the largest party in Westminster. We'd be a republic in 10 min if she did anything else.--Doc^g 21:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Well lets hope Charlie tries that one when he gets in :p 81.77.188.120 10:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article is now inaccurate (wrong)!!!!!

Salmond is the first first minister elect until he is appointed by the Queen. See the official page of the parliament for confirmation [2]. He has been nominated by parliament - and will be appointed in the next day or two. I fixed the article - left a note on the talk page - left a hidden note on the article. However I keep being reverted by know-it-all anons. I'm not going to keep reverting as some clown will hit me with a 3RR. But can someone please correct the article and perhaps get it protected. Yes, it is a technicality - but Wikipedia should be right.--Doc^g 21:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

He has now been sworn in at the Court of Session. As far as I can see he never met the Queen though- and just received the Royal Warrant confirming his appointment. The article states he is now "Rt Hon"- but I havn't seen anything to suggest he has been appointed to the Privy Council? Thunderwing 10:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MP

Shouldn't the infobox at the side have "Alex Salmond MP MSP", instead of just "MSP"? Marks87 02:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Rt Hon?

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6753561.stm

I notice that The Equaliser has just given Salmond some pre nominals: Rt Hon. AFAIAA it is only members of the Privy Council that have these. While it seems likely that Salmond will be so appointed (or at least offered - he may well refuse), AFAIAA no such appointment has been made. Or am I missing something? --Mais oui! 14:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Until we can verify it, it should stay off. I can't find any source to support it. But, as you say, it is a plausible move at some point.--Doc^g 15:06, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, he has been nominated today, but hasn't been sworn in yet so lets leave the Rt. Hon off until he is 80.195.216.245 18:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

He does not get sworn in the Queen on the advice of the PM has asked him to join the Privy Council and he has accepted[3] --Barryob Vigeur de dessus 18:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protection of Article

PMK - the page on Gordon Brown is protected from being changed, why isn't this one on Salmond? I mean at least Salmond was elected, Gordon Brown has never been voted for by anyone outside of Fife - yet his page is protected and the elected First Minister's is not?! Seems very strange.

I guess it's because the Gordon Brown article suffers from sustained vandalism. Kanaye 18:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

PMK - the Gordon Brown article does not suffer vandalism any more as it is protected and there is absolutely no criticism of GB allowed anywhere near the actual article - even Tony Blair and David Cameron do not enjoy such priveledges on wiki!

GB must have some very good contacts! I suppose perhaps his people merely care more about this sort of stuff than the others? A dividend of political paranoia?

"Gordon Brown has never been voted for by anyone outside of Fife" - and Tony Blair has never been voted for by anyone outside of Sedgefield, the Labour party and the Trade Unions. So to use that as an argument against protecting his page is somewhat flawed...although quite why you bring up potential reasons for his page being protected on Alex Salmond's page, I don't know... Marks87 20:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How

How did he become First minister if the Lib Lab Coalition together have more seats?

Because Labour and the Liberal Democrats are not in coalition any more. There wasn't any point in them forming a coalition as that would not have formed an overall majority. 82.41.202.199 19:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

And It would not have allowed them to select the first minister?

Well, they could have, but the Lib Dems said they thought it was undemocratic to side with the smaller party (ie, Labour). Plus there was a lot of tension within the coalition.--Breadandcheese 06:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Could we foreigners have an idea of how he pronounces his name? Sammun? Sammund? Salmund? Salmon? Cholomondeley-Colquhoun-Buccleuch-Smyth? (anything is possible with British names.) Intelligent Mr Toad 11:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added (pronounced: "Samond"). Will that do?! Marks87 00:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. Intelligent Mr Toad 06:08, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh well, someone has removed it again. It seems somewhat bizarre that a binary approach to pronunciations is taken - either its IPA or not. Surely giving the pronunciation by some method is better than not having it at all, hence creating the potential for confusion? Marks87 00:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I've often thought that myself, but in absence of any form, you get people writing all sorts of rubbish. Plus it strikes me that Salmond isn't exactly an uncommon name... Anyway, unrelated point: it's rather shocking that there's no photograph for this page. --Breadandcheese 11:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alex 'Three Salaries' Salmond Shocker!!! We need a controversy paragraph

Hi, I wonder if it is possible to mention that Alex Salmond is currently enjoying three salaries at the expense of the British taxpayers. The three salaries are

• Member of the British House of Commons (£60,675)
• Member of the Scottish Parliament (£53,091)(?)
• First Minister of the Scottish Parliament (£129,998)

With a grand total of £243,764...Though I guess he may not receive his Member of the Scottish Parliament of £53,091...This still means he is earning £190,673, which for any English, Scottish, Irish or Welshman is obscene. I found this link http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1071862007

Further Controversy is that he hasn't turned up to the British House of Commons for over three months despite collecting his wages. I wish I could not turn up for work and still get paid for it!! The link is http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1071862007

Though admit The Scotsman could be accused of being pro-union, but these figures are shocking and disgusting. --Madkaffir 12:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

This is nonsense - the First Minister's salary is not paid *in addition* to the MSP's salary. It's paid instead of it. Likewise Gordon Brown gets the Prime Minister's salary, not a backbench MP's salary. The only contrversy, which the Scotsman article addresses, is about Salmond being an MP and an MSP at the same time and therefore being paid two salaries. Not three. Read the article - it refers to the difference between the MSP's pay and the FM's pay; the writer above has in effect counted the MSP's £53K salary twice. I won't assume bad faith because this is Wikipedia...86.153.187.1 11:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I think if he is drawing two salaries from the tax payer then this is one too many. I think this should be added to the article. Templetongore 09:15, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

This would be controversial if it was true. In actual fact he gets only gets paid 1/3rd of his MSP & MP salary under the Scotland Act. Boatcolour 12:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

If this is the best 'dirt' you can find on Alex Salmond you obviously aren't very good at pushing the obviously political agenda you have. -CM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.17.34 (talk) 02:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, there's planty of dirt, for example helping Donald Trump build a golf course for the uber-rich over an environmentally sensitive area of Scotland. Not exactly "centre-left" politics. Templetongore (talk) 16:20, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures of SNP leaders

Please see Talk:Scottish National Party#Pictures of SNP leaders, and this SNP page. We have pictures for Alex, at least. Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png 04:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Not good enough. Saying we can use this picture on Wikipedia is not the same as it being freely-licenced. Lurker (said · done) 13:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] nationality

Why is his objective nationality being deleted?name: England's Rose 18:32, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Because the consensus here is to call a scot a scot, and a borderline single purpose account isn't going to change that. Please do not edit war. Lurker (said · done) 12:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

That is not consensus at all. In fact, consensus is that it should be left to individual editors to determine in individual circumstances. While British is more objective as an indentifier, I think we can pretty safely identify Salmond as Scottish is almost every circumstance. --Breadandcheese 13:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

This argument is present on a lot of discussion boards, so I will place the standard next point. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, nationalities should represent internationality recognised nations (ie passports or UN representation), his passport says ‘United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland’ like everyone else’s in the UK. Its not oppressive to state this fact, because it is a fact. This isn’t Football where Scotland has separate recognition or Northern Ireland where people get a choice of passports. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.36.94 (talk) 02:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I tend to agree with you (I'm a nationalist but I belive the passport should have the say just to technically accurate), in fact I found a while back an user who's entire contribution to Wikipedia had been to go to every article he could find and change "British" to "English". I changed a few back believing that the passport should have the final say, but looking around the famous Brits on Wikipedia these days they almost always say "English", "Scottish" or "Welsh" so I think the argument on this one is well and truley lost. I think you'd need to get a policy change accross the whole of Wikipedia rather than try to argue it here 06:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.188.0.166 (talk)

[edit] Lockerbie bit

This section sits rather oddly in the article:

Following the decision of the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC) to refer the case of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi back for a second appeal against conviction, Dr Hans Köchler, UN-appointed observer at the Lockerbie trial, wrote on July 4, 2007 to First Minister, Alex Salmond, reiterating his call for a full and independent public inquiry of the Lockerbie case.[9] Köchler addressed his letter also to Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith and to the Minister for Africa, Asia and the UN, Mark Malloch Brown.[10]

Somebody once wrote Mr Salmond a letter? Errr.... I am sure thousands of people, a lot of them with high profiles, have written to the man.

I do not doubt that a brief mention of Lockerbie is appropriate, but this ain't it. --Mais oui! 08:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

This article was not the correct place to have the Lockerbie section so I have removed it. I note that it appears to be a consensus here that it is out of place. the letter to the First Minister has nothing to do with Alex Salmond as an individual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.1.203.238 (talk) 23:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photograph

IMHO it is simply laughable that this article still lacks a photograph. Can somebody please go and take a flippin snap of the man and publish it with the appropriate free usage template. I refuse to believe that Mr Salmond is such a recluse that it is impossible for a member of the public to catch a fleeting glimpse of him ;) Mais oui! 08:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It is ridiculous. While not actually in a position to go Salmond-hunting myself, there are three at least possible photos that are appropriately licensed on Flickr here, here and here - both are far from perfect for various reasons, but they may well be an improvement on the article until such times as a permanent solution can be found. --Breadandcheese 17:39, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Noncommercial and noderivs Creative Commons licenses are not considered suitable for wikimedia projects. Lurker (said · done) 18:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, I overlooked the derivs matter on a CC commercial use search. --Breadandcheese 16:20, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

There are images made avaliable on scotland.gov website, however they are all crown copyright and not free use as such. Thunderwing 08:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

And there's still no photograph!! Short of camping outside Bute House, it will be difficult to catch a glimpse and take a photograph - the most obvious time would be in the Scottish Parliament, but photography there is forbidden when Parliament is in session. Does anyone have any other ideas? Globaltraveller 13:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It really surprises me that there are no SNP members watching this article. Surely all they would have to do is go along to a meeting attended by Mr Salmond (eg. the recent conference would have been ideal) and take a few simple snaps of the man, publish, and then relinquish the copyright on them.

Alternatively (and probably a better option) is to have a look and see if there are any photos of Mr Salmond on any official US Govt websites, following his recent US trip. These are eligible for Wikipedia use. Indeed the Gordon Brown and Tony Blair images are (or used to be) actually from US Govt sources. --Mais oui! 15:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I sent an email request to the SNP 4 months ago which was ignored :( Borisblue 07:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Somebody has put in a Fair Use photograph of the First Minister. Anyone want to take bets as to how long it will last before it is deleted? Globaltraveller (talk) 13:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy section

This section seems likely a thinly veiled attempt to use wikipedia as a platform to attack Alex Salmond politically. Am I alone in having the impression? I'm not sure it should be in the article, certainly not under that title at least. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 23:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree that this section is a veiled attack. I added most of it myself and I can assure you that was not my intention. Any article about a person must contain biographical information, but in order to be balanced it needs to include information that reflects both positively and the negatively. I felt that this article was unbalanced in that it was all positive in tone. I have nothing against the guy, but nobody is perfect, and the news items listed here were featured in major UK newspapers and therefore I believe they are valid additions. Also, I think the point of the talk page is to discuss a potential edit before actually making that edit. If you are going to go ahead and remove a section why bother 'talking' about it first? It seems your mind is made up. If you don't like there being acontroversy section, maybe one compromise would be to take this info and embed it elsewhere in the article. Templetongore 09:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)