Talk:Biscuit
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[edit] Old
'The biscuit sandwich burst onto the scene' - love it.
_ _ A template added to this talk page's article says
- It has been suggested that this article be split into multiple articles accessible from a disambiguation page. (Discuss)
Indeed. At present a lk to biscuit offers no hint of whether the flour-based food item is relatively thin, brittle, and sweet (a biscuit in UK but a cookie to Yanks), or relatively thick, tearable, and bland (a biscuit in America -- but BTW, what in UK?).
_ _ IMO the proposal is a no-brainer, i.e., requires no significant thot before enthusiastic approval.
_ _ How about English biscuit and American biscuit, since the non-parenthesized approaches to Dab'g are preferred?
--Jerzy·t 14:33, 2005 July 28 (UTC)
- I found this article from Hard tack. There is an article Cracker (biscuit). Basically my position is that there should be one article each for: (a) what USies call cookie and UKies call biscuit, (b) what USies call cracker and UKies call ?, (c) what USies call biscuit [and they should be savory not bland] and UKies call ? I wonder if the article on British and American English differences has some hints as most of these articles probably already exist under one title if not the other. Generally in these cases I like to use for the title the word with the least number of other uses. -Acjelen 16:41, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
_ _ Split and Combine. I support all that Jerzy and Acjelen say. It'll take a bit a work, however, to find and combine the three different versions of biscuit that apparently exist. Friejose 21:00, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
-
- I would like to see the biscuit daughter articles follow the pattern set by such articles as American football and Flashlight. -Acjelen 22:14, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
Comment: The sections aren't big enough to stand alone at present, in my opinion. But I'd support the split if there were more content that could be added to each (I'm thinking lists or something would be possible). Not into 'English biscuit' and 'American biscuit' though; possibly 'Biscuit (US English)' and 'Biscuit (Commonwealth English)', or Acjelen's three-way split. (Incidentally, I'm not sure how closely the rest of the Commonwealth matches Australian usage, but Aussies call both 'cookies' and 'crackers' biscuits; cookie, cracker, shortbread, crispbread, and others are seen as somewhat uncommon and technical terms to distinguish them. I'm not sure we have anything closer to US biscuits than scones.) -- Perey 09:10, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be an almost word-for-word duplicate article at Biscuit (food). How/why did that happen? -- jeffthejiff (talk) 23:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Why, pray tell, are biscuits in the American section referenced to fast food? What, was this written by a Brit or Aussie? Most Americans do not live their lives going from one fast food place to another. Lemonade is frequently featured at fast food places. But you don't define lemonade in reference to fast food. Such a reference is oddly placed indeed.
Water biscuits are surely crackers thinly veiled as biscuits, to gain the heightened exposure they enjoy & broken biscuits are more of an assortment of biscuits than a variety- why are they listed here? (Paulo Fontaine 20:06, 26 January 2006 (UTC))
People in the UK eat American biscuits all the time--they call them Scones. The only difference is that they make them a little on the sweet side. (Of course, they make their "crackers" a little sweet, too!) There's a picture of American biscuits on the Scone (bread) page. (It's from the US Dept of Agriculture.)
- Never had/seen an American biscuit, but i think Scones are different to your biscuits in some way. As pointed out in the article, they're "doughier". Scones are sometimes sweetened, especially when they have fruit in or eaten with jam and cream, but you can also get cheese ones.
Red Lobster, the largest chain of seafood restaurants in the US, puts a basket of CHEESE biscuits (scones) on the table as an appetizer (starter). Scones and biscuits are definitely the same animal. I'm from the Southern US, home of the biscuits. Had biscuits yesterday, just got through eating what's known as a scone here, and have had scones (and biscuits (cookies) in London. There may be variations of biscuits (scones) in the US that don't exisit in scones in the UK and vice versa but the area of commonality is much larger.
The biggest differences are 1)sometimes scones are made as a large piece of bread and then sliced like a pie into triangles and 2) scones are normally eaten for tea/snacks and would not accompany a meal where US biscuits are more frequently eaten as part of a meal.
I think everyone would be convinced if they looked up recipes for scones and US biscuits on the internet and looked at the ingredients. They are both "quick breads" made with dough instead of batter. I like to eat pizza for breakfast, too, but that doesn't mean it's not pizza, even if I gave it another name. See [1] for a variety of US biscuit recipes, sweet and savory, and [2] for a variety of UK scone recipes, sweet and savory.69.22.239.42 15:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- I think scones are distinctly English, as we traditionally have them with a cup of tea, and they're often found in tea shops; definitely not "found as a side dish at fried chicken restaurants". But maybe we copied them from America, who knows... -- jeffthejiff 22:43, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Missing from this discussion are beaten biscuits. Not a different animal, but definitely a sub-species. THB 20:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Biscuit articles
This probably shouldnt go here, but what the hell. Who else thinks that the biscuit articles on Wikipedia need serious work? I'm talking about the English meaning of Biscuit, as in Digestives, Hobnobs, Nice and Malted milks. They really let our biscuit heritage down. Biscuit WikiProject maybe? Who's with me?
Or do i need to ask this somewhere more obvious? -- jeffthejiff 22:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Action towards untangling biscuit, scone, cookie, cracker
I made an easy first step towards this by moving Cracker (biscuit) to Cracker (food) and changed links to it as well as creating a Cracker (disambiguation) page redirecting to Cracker. Apparently the meaning of Cracker related to computers is extremely popular these days.
Since CE "biscuit" consists of AE "cookies" and "crackers" it would seem best to use "cookie" and "cracker" instead of "biscuit". This would be controversial.
It would also leave the problem of AE "biscuit". It would be less trouble to leave AE "biscuit" and CE "scone" separate but to cross-reference.
Suggestions on what to do next? THB 17:37, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
This is interesting. Muffin and cupcake are problematic even without the language issue. [3]THB 03:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I plunged in and did it since everyone seemed to agree on the basic plan.
There are disambiguation pages for Cracker and Biscuit. There is a Biscuit page that has a little on English biscuits and referrs to Cookie plus a good bit on American biscuits. This functions both as an edible Biscuit disambig page as well as the primary article on American biscuits. There is the Cookie page with a bit moved over about English biscuits (cookies).
There are at least 15 times as many references to edible cookies (subtracting computer cookies) on Google as there are to biscuits of all types and nationalities put together. According to Wikipedia naming protocols, that's what the Cookie article should be called.
I hope everyone can understand the articles and that no one feels slighted. THB 06:12, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Beaten biscuit
I redirect this term here but there is no discussion of this type here yet. Rmhermen 05:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sorry, but let's toss the photo
Sorry, but IMHO the image Biscuiteating.jpg "A biscuit being eaten" adds nothing to the page and should be removed immediately. Anybody want to chime in for or against? -- 201.51.228.229 19:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support: That photo is absolutely terrifying, especially if you're a cookie. I mean biscuit. No, I mean cookie. -THB 20:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support: This image is completely useless, unless somebody would add a section which explains how to eat a biscuit. --Nin 11:38, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Done.-THB 03:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Commonwealth vs. American English (again)
Please see the article on English language and this graphic: [[4]] Thanks, -THB 03:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The thing about Britons seeing biscuits as being nice
In the article in the British section, it say "British people tend to see biscuits as being "nice".". Does that belong here? Some Britons do and other Britons might not. Voortle 09:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes Voortle. what is that line about? most likely a bit of playful vandalism - either that or an oblique reference to "Nice" biscuits (for american readers, a thin delicate sugar covered type of biscuit in the UK, pronounced 'neece' as in the french city)
[edit] American usage
The idea that Nabisco's name is somehow ironic seems to be based on the false idea that all American biscuits are soft, scone-type things. Not so. Lots of old cookie companies had the word "biscuit" in their names. There are plenty of instances of using "biscuit" to refer to crispy things, like Sunshine's "Uneeda biscuit" and Nabisco's "Chicken in a Biskit". We don't get confused just because they're called biscuits. There are also dog biscuits, which are incredibly hard (in fact, the soft ones are usually called "treats", rather than biscuits). Nabisco having the word "biscuit" in its name isn't any stranger than AT&T having the word "telegraph" in its name, or the grocery chain A&P still using the full name of "Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Company". The idea of using "biscuit" for something like a cracker or a cookie isn't so unusual in America. It's just old-fashioned. Kafziel Talk 16:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't disagree with you on the old-fashioned usage, but I always assumed "Chicken in a Biskit" was so named because it was suppose to taste like chicken and biscuits in the more modern sense of the word. (Really it tastes more like chicken boullion and grease, of course).Neilmsheldon 17:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Uhh, I am rather certain that everyone is aware of that. It's ironic because an American company has a word with its British meaning in the name due to a change in meaning. That in a few cases the original meaning has been maintained in contrast to the general consensus is an exception, and exceptions don't disprove the rule. The rule is that biscuits are now called cookies, and thus the North American Biscuit Company sells cookies rather than biscuits. That one of their crackers is called "Biskit" doesn't change the fact that it's not a biscuit accoding to American useage of the word. 82.135.86.52 17:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
The biscuit sandwich burst onto the scene primarily through the Hardee's chain of restaurants as an answer to the McDonald's Egg McMuffin. Wow, there is a person who's perception of the world is based upon what they have encountered at fast food restaurants. Somehow I suspect that Sausage biscuits and other biscuit sandwiches may have preceded Hardee's breakfast selections. It's only a hunch. Leondegrance 01:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chick-fil-A
I removed this restaurant from a list of 'fried chicken' restaurants that serve biscuits. CfA is known for chicken fillet sandwiches, and isn't technically the same as a fried chicken restaurant: it doesn't follow the same model as the other restaurants listed (specializing in serving quantities of whole fried chicken with optional side dishes). Neilmsheldon 17:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- The only difference is the bones. None of them leave bones in the chicken when they serve it in a biscuit. -THB 21:27, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Not about the food anymore
This article on the food seems to have been replaced by an article about a dog...Dragon guy 22:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Contest speedy deletion of Biscuit
There is no reason for Biscuit (dog) to be deleted. This page does not reveal any personal info, as fake names are used. The article is not offensive and does not contain offensive or explicit content. It shares funny info and will please the readers. Please do not delete this! Pennybiscuit 15:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
- This is an encyclopedia. Please read Wikipedia's guidelines on notability and verifiability to understand why the text you entered was deleted. In addition, even without reading anything about Wikipedia, I think you should be able to understand why we are not pleased to see useful content replaced -- i.e., effectively deleted. Thank you. --Tkynerd 02:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Come on!
I am an American Cowboy (by cowboy, I'm saying America Lover) and we call them biscuits here in the U.S. I want a good website in AMERICAN English! Not United Kingdom English! And what you call "biscuits" we call cookies. 68.205.128.200 06:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Cowboy, this page clearly shows the difference in definition between the variants of the English language. The fact remains that there is only one English wikipedia and as such it should fairly not dismiss variants other than American English.
- Cowboy, would you like Wikipedia to exclude all American English dialects apart from your own? It seems that "biscuit" can mean both things in many parts of America too, even if it doesn't in your local dialect. Yee-ha. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.133.0.15 (talk) 16:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Twice Cooked
Why were they given a name that means twice cooked? 67.188.172.165 00:59, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- Because they were. The first to cook the dough, the second to crisp them - mediaeval ovens were not particularly efficient. The earliest reference I have yet found is to Joannis of Cureghem (d.1358), the Good Cook of the Priory of Groenendael outside Brussels - and nicknamed for his Speculoos biscuits, which may be the largest biscuits on routine sale in the world: although most are finger-sized, some at Christmas time in Brussels exceed the UK harvest sheaf loaves in size, and some can be the height of a man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.65.133.116 (talk) 08:01, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Difference in terms
I still find the difference between biscuit and cookie confusing in terms of terminology. In Australia, the only thing referred to as a cookie is the classic choc chip cookie. All other sweet biscuits are generally referred to as biscuits, but I gather that in the US, any sweet biscuit is a cookie. ANyone care to explain. The differences make this article extremely confusing; I guess the aim should be to give the broadest worldwide view. Tarcus (talk) 21:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
-
- If it's sweet, we call it a cookie. If it's not sweet, though, we generally call it a cracker. To be honest, living in London the last year I was always puzzled by the apparent need for everything to be either sweet or savoury. What about saltines? Is salty "savoury"?
- In any case, I'm curious, if someone could help me back, what the things we in the US call biscuits are called in other parts of the Anglosphere. That is, the warm, soft biscuits that one has with a pat of butter, with dinner. The article links to scones as the main article on the topic, but scones are quite hard and are things I've generally only seen for sale at coffee shops and the like; they're not biscuits. So, if you were to have small, warm, buttered breads with dinner in Britain, Australia, or elsewhere, what would you call them? Cheers. LordAmeth (talk) 23:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
- Generally, we don't have them. If I'm going to have a bread with my meal, it would be a dinner roll, but that is baked and has a crusty surface, and is not what the US calls a biscuit. I've never seen what you are talking about served like that except by Americans. DancingFool (talk) 08:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
- IN Australia, and I'm pretty sure in Commonwealth (former English) countries, what you refer to is a scone. In Australia, you would normally have them with jam and cream or the like as part of a spiffy afternoon tea, also known as Devonshire tea. Tarcus (talk) 07:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
- Speaking as a northern Brit, a biscuit is a flattish, hard-ish thing, and usually at least slightly sweet. Anything resembling, say, an Oreo. They might have chocolate on or in them, be sandwich-type affairs (like the Oreo), or whatever. A British cookie is not a separate item, but a subtype of biscuit. In all my experience, cookie exclusively refers to biscuits studded with something else - along the lines of a chocolate chip cookie, but it could be bits of nut, ginger, etc. I don't agree with the comment on 'cookie' being used for softer biscuits, but it may be a new southern useage. Finally, a scone is a soft, cake-like foodstuff, usually 3-5" across. They are usually sweet and speckled with dried fruit, but you get plain and savoury ones too. Mostly they're for 'afternoon tea' as DancingFool says. I can't recognise the 'biscuit' LordAmeth is describing as anything I've eaten.
[edit] Savoury biscuits in the UK
I'm a bit sceptical of the following paragraph in the British biscuits section:
Although there are many regional varieties, both sweet and savoury, "biscuit" is generally used to describe the sweet version. Sweet biscuits are commonly eaten as a snack and may contain chocolate, fruit, jam, nuts or even be used to sandwich other fillings. Savoury biscuits, more often called crackers or crispbreads, are plainer and commonly eaten with cheese following a meal.
While it's probably true that biscuit is used for sweet products more often than savoury, this is only because sweet biscuits are much more common overall IMHO. I'm particularly confused by the assertion that savoury biscuits are "more often called crackers or crispbreads".
Cracker: While one of the most common savoury biscuits in the UK is the "cream cracker", I've rarely heard the term "cracker" used for other types such as water biscuits and crispbread. When I have, it's usually been by an American -- the OED says this about the word cracker in the sense of a biscuit:
9. a. A thin hard biscuit. (Now chiefly in U.S.)[5]
I'd say the comparison between this search and this one might be seen as informative. Many of the results from the first search aren't even talking about biscuits, note.
Crispbread: this is plain wrong. Certainly I've only never heard crispbread used for anything other than a specific type of savoury biscuit like Ryvita.
I think whoever wrote this paragraph may have been confused by the fact that cream crackers and crispbreads are two of the most common types of savuory biscuit in the UK, but I don't think they are applied generally. For example, I've never heard a water biscuit or oatcake called cracker or crispbread.
Casper Gutman (talk • contributions) 10:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] added dog biscuit
this could really use a photo FiveRings (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
![[4]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:English_dialects1997.png){kind=link}