User talk:FiveRings

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Welcome!

Hello, FiveRings, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! gidonb 08:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

1 Caste and chappals
2 Mormonism/Judaism
3 Dutch oven / Farting under the covers during sex
4 Mercury and Katsuo
5 History of Shoelaces
6 Polygamy
7 Cast Iron
8 Citation
9 Image:Many-chopsticks.jpg
10 Souring
11 Image copyright problem with Image:Enamel-over-castiron.jpg
12 Image copyright problem with Image:Enamel-over-steel.jpg
13 Eden Organic
14 Mixed pickle
15 WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2008

[edit] Caste and chappals

Hello, There is no connection between usage of rubber chappals and the caste system! There probably is a connection between the usage of rubber chappals and income as they are cheap. But even the richest households use rubber chappals in the privacy of their homes.

As for leather, well most upper-caste Hindus have traditionally considered using anything made of leather taboo - so they'd avoid using leather chappals. I really think you should remove the reference to a caste connection. I know of no such connection. —Veliath 17:43, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

How long did you live in India? FiveRings 18:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I live in India. I'm an Indian. Have lived all over South India. Heck, at work, we switch to rubber flip-flops when we're in our cubicles! There is nothing low-caste about chappals — they're just considered cheap/informal. —Veliath 08:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

When I was there, older people treated me quite differently when I was wearing flip-flops (including glaring at me until I properly slipped them off and back on). One guidebook we bought before the trip noted that the two different styles (between the toe vs. loop toe) would elicit different treatment from people, and mentioned one traveller who eventually found a cobbler to add a toe loop to his between-the-toe sandals so he wouldn't have to deal with it. Either things have changed radically in the last ten years (possible), or this is a location issue (rural/city, north/south).

Oh thats bad. Are you sure it was a caste thing? I can assure you of two things 1) I've never noticed a caste label attached to rubber flip-flops. Chappals are considered informal and not something one would wear to a party or say to Church. Footwear as a rule are not allowed in any places of worship except maybe Latin Churches (as against the Syrian Churches which don't allow them). 2) People of all castes wear them - especially when they step out into the yards of their homes or into outhouses. If you were to wear it into/inside the house, the elders might frown at you. Most households don't like their guests tramping in mud into their houses — however dirty the houses' floors might be. When I visit my relation's houses, I carry two sets of chappals — one pair each for indoor and outdoor use!:-) Why don't you talk to someone from the area of India you lived in regarding the social implications of wearing rubber chappals. If there is indeed a difference, write up the difference in the status of the rubber chappals in Wikipedia — should be interesting. Else remove the caste bit (if you are convinced) —Veliath 16:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't enter a church, so that wasnt' it. This tended to happen in public places (the lobby of a hotel, on the street). Perhaps it's the use as primary footwear that's the issue. I'm going to dig and try to find the book. (in the wiki way, and given all the other customs associated with feet in India, as you've just noted, maybe chappals need their own page).FiveRings 17:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

So how long, where and under what circumstances did you live in India? Mail me if you'd rather not write all this out in public.

I visited India itself only for a few weeks (in Bangalore - my husband was consulting for Tata). As a kid in New York, and as an adult in San Franciso, I've lived near major Indian enclaves, and have lots of friends/aquaintances/coworkers who are Indian or who had lived there extensively.

My dorm tutor in college was Indian, and his wife treated me like crap (including threatening to hit me) because I was working as a housecleaner in the dorm (as part of work/study - she couldn't cope with all the uppity servants, and eventually went home). FiveRings 16:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry the Indian dorm tutor's wife gave you such a hard time. Indian society is pretty regimented — especially those of the older generations. Tradional professions are caste labels. So she'd have thought you were of a servant jati (community). Are you not caucasian? Indians are big on skin colour.

Speaking of B'glore, I was there today on business. I actually started looking for people wearing flip-flops:-) I've noticed you've contributed to Mormonism and Judaism. Do you belong to either of these faiths? Is your husband into software? —Veliath 16:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm Jewish, and pass for Mexican on a regular basis (still lighter than she was though). The whole thing started when I was vacuuming the hallway, and her husband offered me a dollar to vaccum their suite as well. Apparently I wasn't as impressed by the offer as they expected (newly arrived, hadn't figured out the culture OR the economy). Then she started glaring at my feet - in New York that means you've stepped in something, so I did the polite thing and checked the bottoms of my sandals. :-).

My husband is a software architect. What I remember most about Bangalore (besides the monkeys) was people in business suits walking barefoot to work in the morning, carrying their shoes. (Still haven't managed to find good idli in California).

Indians have a way of converting anything monetary into rupee terms. So a dollar (Rs 50/- approx then) would have seemed like a lot. She didn't understand the economy for sure. No wonder she left!:-) I've never seen this phenomenon of people in suits walking barefoot to work carrying their shoes. I wonder what profession they were into...People here do go about barefoot a lot. I couldn't do it — I like(need?) to wear chappals inside the home as well. I get teased a lot for my tender baby pink feet!:-) —Veliath 15:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mormonism/Judaism

Mormonism and Judaism. I think it should be split; see talk there, would love to know your thoughts.Kaisershatner 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that FiveRings has done a great job with the article. I think it also needs to be split, would love to know your thoughts as well, friend. Tigerlilly™ 11:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

aw shucks. I don't think it should be split, but I do think it should be cleaned up (do we really need a list of holiday-correllations?, etc.). While there are clearly two sections ('mormon feelings about' and 'comparisons between', the second doesn't make much sense without the context of the first. FiveRings 19:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dutch oven / Farting under the covers during sex

I recently had edited another article about strange sexual practices. I was trying to look up "Dutch oven" -- just about the only other term I know -- to see what that article said, for comparison. However I noticed you seem to remove the sexual act in your edit for the disambig page? Please note I have not changed your edit, nor do I disagree with it -- but I am close to 96% positive that Dutch oven is also a sexual act. - Abscissa 02:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Many people have removed that defn, not just me. The rationale is not that it isn't a valid definition, it is that there is no page for the disambig to link to. There is a wiktionary entry for the sexual/scatological act, but no wikipedia page.FiveRings 14:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mercury and Katsuo

Please see the katsuobushi talk page to discuss your recent edits. Thanks, Lmbstl 05:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History of Shoelaces

I'm searching for a citation for one of your contributions to the shoelaces page, which reads as follows: "The shoestring (string and shoe holes) was first invented in England in 1790 (first recorded date March 27)." Can you recall the original source? Ian Fieggen 01:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't mine - I just put it back in after a vandal had changed it. Sorry. FiveRings 21:09, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, sorry about that. My fault for going backwards through the history rather than forwards. Ian Fieggen 02:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up: I've now checked further back, and yours does appear to be the first instance in which that date is mentioned. The "History" section, which I agree seems to be nonsensical, appears to have been first added on 21-Oct-2006. On the same date, you replaced it with the above text. Any ideas?

Sorry to be pursuing this, but subsequent research would seem to contradict this date. Some other web sites with this same date appear to use Wikipedia as a reference, so I'm having difficulty tracking down the original citation. Ian Fieggen 03:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of is that I took it from another Wikipedia article, or retrieved it from a much earlier version. I do remember a cut-and-paste, but I would have no knowledge of (or interest in) this topic on my own, and I don't remember finding information anywhere but here. I certainly have no problems removing it.FiveRings 14:57, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks once again. Considering that it appears to contradict other evidence, I think I'll remove it, at least until I can find something solid that supports this date. Ian Fieggen 02:16, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polygamy

Thanks for catching my error. I thought the citation provided pretty detailed discussion, but didn't see the "who we are" thing until I noticed your reversion. Sorry! Kaisershatner 12:57, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure. Chabad has some good (kosher) stuff, if you want to do some more digging. FiveRings 23:09, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cast Iron

I would like to seriously request that you stop accusing me of destroying "your" article by deleting things just because you have chosen to include them improperly. If you had sources, you should have cited them the first time they were added; It is NOT my job to research for you. I left a LOT of uncited shit in the aritcle so far, but I delete health implications because I feel that without citation, telling readers health advice is extremely improper. As you clearly know, Wikipedia history does not DELETE your work, and if you wish to improve it up to wikipedia standards, it is right there in the history of the article for you to revive and improve. It is not my responsibility to either improve improper contributions or else leave them be; It is your job as the person who added it to make sure it passes wikipedia standards. If you cannot see that, I'm sorry, and I can ask for another outside third opinion to explain it to you, but if you continue to add entire uncited sections that could be seen as contraversial they will likely be deleted. TheHYPO (talk) 22:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't add the health benefits section - another editor did. I am not the only person who has added information to this article, though I was the one who created it in the first place. I have replaced the health information with cites added, which is what you should have done (or, if you were too lazy to do a three-minute google search, at least added a "cite" tag). Slash and burn is not an edit technique. How many times do I have to say this? FiveRings (talk) 22:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation

I'm glad to see you are starting to cite your additions, such as the cast iron health section. I would refer you to WP:CITE and WP:CITE/ES and suggest that in the future, when citing, you use one of two formats: either maintain the format you currently added, an external numbered link, - but you must add a full citation via a citation template in the references section. The second, and more convenient way, is to use the ref tags, by which at the end of the sentance you add<ref>[citation template for your reference]</ref>. You can use either format, but each article should pick one format and be consistant - currently the cast iron page already uses one <ref> tagged citation, and your new addition lacks the full citation under References. I would suggest that you convert your citations to the latter format, or at very least, in the future, use one of the proper formats and not just a lone external link for citation. Thank you TheHYPO (talk) 23:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that advice. Feel free to edit the existing page to apply it. FiveRings (talk) 23:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Many-chopsticks.jpg

Hi, thank you for uploading Image:Many-chopsticks.jpg. It is very helpful in showing many kinds of chopsticks in a single photo.

However, as a Korean, I always cringe when I see that photo, because in Korea you never put the chopsticks on the left side of the spoon. The handles of the spoon and chopsticks should be alligned as well, like this (although usually the handles should be facing the user):

------o
======

Would it be possible for you to upload a new version of the image? Thank you. --Kjoonlee 09:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I was arranging them for pretty layout, not proper tablesetting. I can reshoot the photo, but probably not right away (busy time right now). Thanks for the input FiveRings (talk) 09:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow thanks for the quick response. Yes, I understand how shooting lots of chopsticks (and a spoon) can be challenging. You did a very nice job, though, and there's no hurry. :) Thanks! --Kjoonlee 09:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. Expect lots of americans to be up late for the next couple of days. :-). FiveRings (talk) 09:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Souring

Is the original key lime pie an example of souring?Kgrr (talk) 17:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

A fast look at the New Joy of Cooking says yes - "the mixture will thicken as the milk reacts with the acidic citrus juice". Cool. FiveRings (talk) 19:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Enamel-over-castiron.jpg

Hi FiveRings!
We thank you for uploading Image:Enamel-over-castiron.jpg, but there is a problem. Your image is currently missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. Unless you can help by adding a copyright tag, it may be deleted by an Administrator. If you know this information, then we urge you to add a copyright tag to the image description page. We apologize for this, but all images must confirm to policy on Wikipedia.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks so much for your cooperation.
This message is from a robot. --John Bot III (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Enamel-over-steel.jpg

Hi FiveRings!
We thank you for uploading Image:Enamel-over-steel.jpg, but there is a problem. Your image is currently missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. Unless you can help by adding a copyright tag, it may be deleted by an Administrator. If you know this information, then we urge you to add a copyright tag to the image description page. We apologize for this, but all images must confirm to policy on Wikipedia.

All my images will be moved to Wikimedia commons in a couple of weeks (when I have the time). FiveRings (talk) 19:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eden Organic

The article was deleted under WP:CSD#A7 because it asserted no notability. You need to assert notability, and it's best to do so under the guise of Wikipedia's general notability criteria, or any of the subcriteria specific to the different types of articles. Please review Wikipedia's notability criteria for companies. I looked at Arrowhead mills and determined, aside from the incorrect article title, that it also does not clearly assert notability. I tagged it for such, and will review it more carefully to se whether the entity is, in fact, notable. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 18:56, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

So if I say Eden soy sauce was rated highest among common brands by Cook's Illustrated, and their soy milk is recommended by health practitioners, this is considered *less* spam-like? FiveRings (talk) 18:59, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I would say that, since Cook's recommendations do not feature prominently in the article (presumably because they are not that highly regarded within culinary circles?), reference to it may not help out; nor is a generalized statement about medical recommendations without qualification usually accepted. Wikipedia's notability criteria for companies says this:

"A company ... product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability."

Certainly if you can find verifiable, reliable sources (3rd party, independent and nontrivial), you'll be able to support those statements. You can circumvent speedy deletion by merely asserting notability, but the article may still be deleted under WP:AFD if you cannot provide the sources required to establish its notability. It might end up being a lot of work, but if Eden Organic really is notable, then the "leg" work is worth it to substantiate your claims. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 19:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Cooks is actually VERY highly regarded, in part because they don't take advertising. They're the Consumer Reports of the food industry. However, Eden is more notable because it's the last national organic brand that hasn't been acquired by a major conglomerate. I've seen this as documentation in a printed article, and will try to track down the source. (Worth the work). FiveRings (talk) 19:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

... Cooks has it's own wikipedia page: Cook's Illustrated FiveRings (talk) 19:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Everything's still available in the edit history. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 17:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

There was a link to an academic research report showing ownership and interrelations in the organic food industry. I can't find it. FiveRings (talk) 18:06, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

It's in this old version. FYI: the "history" tab at the top (next to "article", "talk", etc.) will let you see all previous versions of an article. Cheers! - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 18:15, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - I thought it got lost in the move. FiveRings (talk) 18:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mixed pickle

Hi, what is the source showing that the term "mixed pickle" is used in Western (non-Indian) culture(s)? Badagnani (talk) 18:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Click on the reference link ... FiveRings (talk) 18:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Please take a look at the external link. The company is British. Thus, your limiting of mixed Western pickles to the U.S. is incorrect. Badagnani (talk) 19:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

already fixed - the article is under construction FiveRings (talk)

[edit] WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2008

--Chef Tanner (talk) 17:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

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