Disputatio:Ludoviciana

E Vicipaedia

Nova Aurelia hodie "New Orleans" appellatur.

[recensere] Vandalism

There looks to be some vandalism here.

Until someone can tell me that the statement "Gubernator sui foedus est." isn't vandalism, I'm getting rid of it. Strikes me as a bit of nastiness.

Additionally, I'm getting rid of the mention of Spanish being an official language. I checked the English page and it only has English and French. I looked elsewhere on the web. It would appear that Louisiana has not declared an official language, but in light of its heritage, French should be listed. Spanish does not belong on the list, but would seem to be vandalism to me. Sinister Petrus 02:49, 30 Maii 2006 (UTC)

According to the constitution of the state of Louisiana, English is not the official language of the state but is recognized as the majority language and thus is the language of instruction in the school system. French is recognized with official status and any Francophone can demand and recieve any and all state documents in French upon request. Article 12 Section four reads as follows "The right of the people to preserve, foster, and promote their respective historic linguistic and cultural origins is recognized." Under this rule it would be possible for a Spanish speaking comunity to seek recognition if the population of the group was large enough. I don't know that this has happened but could. The Constitution also gives "almost" constitutional status to the original French Language Civil Code and Franophones make up about 20% of the population so it is a certainly safe to say that it isn't just history but modern day Louisiana that says French is an official language.

[recensere] Nomen

Louisiana est nunquam appellatur Lodoviciana. Nomen Louisiana est Louisianae.

Ita, et United States of America numquam *Civitates Foederatae, et George Bush numquam *Georgius Bush, et 中國 numquam *Seres Sinaeve. Nomina Latina, mirabile dictu, nonnumquam a nominibus vernaculis differunt. --Iustinus 02:39, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

And by the way, before you start using words as strong as numquam, please note that Ludoviciana for "Louisiana" was not made up by us, and goes back AT LEAST to 1817 when Constantine Samuel Rafinesque wrote Florula Ludoviciana, and I would wager it's even older than that. --Iustinus 02:43, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted the article, and added a list of a half dozen attestations. I could look for some more, but I think that makes the point sufficiently. --Iustinus 03:34, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

And by the way, don't you think that your tone of this issue is a little hostile. Plus, Isn't it a bit arrogant to tell the native population what the correct name of their state is. The name of Louisiana is a proper name. The United States of America is a discription since we have never adopted a formal name for the Union. Louisiana is easily Latinized so I would assume that that is simply what you would do. Louisiana is the Latin for that we used in Latin class without even thinking about it. I can respect that there is another form that has been use for liturature now that it has been referanced and I am also happy that you included a phrase to show the vurnacular. Just on the side, who decided that nunquam was a strong word. It conveys what any native would think about an almost completely different name.

My tone was probably indeed overly hostile, and I apologize. Too be honest I didn't like your tone either, and I'm only telling you what the correct name of your state IN LATIN is. In English we say Japan (which is not a description), not Nihongoku, and Italy (also not a description) not Italia. Doubtless we would think that the Italians and Japanese were being arrogant if they demanded that we abandon the traditional names for their countries in OUR language. In much the same way there are established names for places in Latin as well. On this wiki, wherever possible, we try to go with attested, established names for things, rather than inventing them, unless we absolutely have to. Latin may have originated in Ancient Rome, but it lasted for a long time after the Empire fell. It was in frequent use in certain feelds until, say, the 19th century. So more often than not, we honestly don't have to make up names for things.

And calling numquam a "strong word" is just another way of saying "never say never."

In sum, sorry I was brusque. Honestly, I'm worried I may STILL be being brusque. It's not my intention to bite the newcomer. All I'm really saying is that if Nova Aurelia is good enough for the Bishop of New Orleans, it should be good enough for us ;) --Iustinus 05:08, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

Certainly sir, we do not mean to tell a native population anything. It happens, however, that Iustinus is an american native (not native american =]), and I may as well be as long as I've been here. We presume to tell you nothing, other than what proper references have told us about the way Latine to call something/anything. If we offend, rest assured, it is only in the name of Latinitatis. We are wrong often, but we also search long and hard for our attestations. Please do not impune our search for proper Ltin. Also, I don't know what your Latin class was like, but mine did a bunch of stupider things than you bring up. We are not challenging the sanctity of Louisiana is certainly a proper noun, but if it has been talked about in Latin, it has a proper name...--Ioshus ^(disp) 05:53, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

In Spanish, the state is known as "Luisiana"; in French it is "Louisiane". "Ludoviciana" follows the same principle as Spanish does of altering the name Louis to their language's version. The Latin version of Louis is Ludovicus, so "Ludoviciana makes sense in Latin. However, "Louisiana" already has a Latinized ending and the Roman Catholic Church goes by "Louisiana" when it uses Latin. I would say that both "Ludoviciana" and "Louisiana" are correct Latin in this case and it's up to the author to decide which form he or she wants to use. -Kedemus 06:32, 12 Novembris 2007 (UTC)