Talk:You

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This article was nominated for deletion on March 9, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on 31 March 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents 1 Not a Wiktionary candidate 2 One or two articles? 3 Portuguese and Spanish 4 'Forms in other European languages' 5 You... Drew? 6 You guys 7 Yous guys 8 Liverpool, England usage of yews/yous 9 Me redirects here 10 Youse 11 Singular & Plural 12 Congratulations! 13 Sem-protection 14 Slang 15 You as One

[edit] Not a Wiktionary candidate

I removed a {{move to wiktionary}} notice that had been placed here by Radiant!. This page goes well beyond a dictionary definition and contains extended discussion in complete sentences that put it well beyond the scope of a dictionary entry. -- Smerdis of Tlön 13:39, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] One or two articles?

I reverted the edit by 152.163.100.13 that split the article into two (one for the singluar and one for the plural). Since both are "you", it is less confusing to have that content in the same article. I also restored the redirect from plural of you back to this page. Tobycat 22:37, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

The reason why I split the article is because, some people find the need to have a y'all article and that's why I think it would be good to have an article about plural forms of you, not just y'all itself.

• Hi. I'm still not sure why splitting the article in two helps out people who want to have a y'all article. Since y'all redirects back to you, people looking for y'all would find what they are looking for within a consolidated article. Strategically, I don't think that fragmenting information and requiring additional clicks to get to it makes sense when it can be avoided. Since y'all currently redirects to you (and plural of you used to redirect back to it before you made the change) anybody looking for information in any of these three ways could do it and get directly to the content they wanted. Under the changes you have made, anybody wanting content pertaining to the plural of you would have to enter 'plural of you' to get to it directly in the search box. I don't want to get into an edit war with you which is why I have not changed it back, but I would like to see some further justification for why this content should be split up. How does it help the user to have this information in two locations instead of one? Tobycat 04:29, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Portuguese and Spanish

The following paragraph is a bit misleading:

Spanish and Portuguese use actual words which take third-person forms, and each has singular and plural forms. For Spanish, it is usted (pl. ustedes), and for Portuguese, você (pl. vocês). As in English, they seem to be supplanting the original second-person pronouns, which are now informal. The original Spanish second-person plural pronoun, vosotros, is now used only in Spain. Portuguese is farther along in losing them; the plural pronoun vós is gone totally in Brazil and used sporadically in Portugal, while the singular tu is dying out in Brazil, used sporadically in the southern region and certain rural parts of the country.

While it's true that "tu" has been replaced with "você" in most of Brazil, there are still formal personal pronouns in both countries, the phrases "o senhor" and "a senhora". It is not the same situation as in English, where there is only one 2nd. person pronoun. As for Spanish, the use of "tu" varies a great deal within Latin America. Some countries have kept using it, besides Spain. See the following entry: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vos#Distribuci.C3.B3n_geogr.C3.A1fica

[edit] 'Forms in other European languages'

Instead of discussing this complex topic here, why not just direct the reader to the page on the T-V distinction?

All you need to say here, in my opinion, is that:

• 1. In English, 'you' can be either singular or plural, formal or informal.
• 2. 'You' was originally a plural, 'thou' being used as the singular. Later, 'you' became a formal singular as well, and finally 'thou' was dropped from most dialects of English.
• 3. Other languages have separate words for singular 'you' and plural 'you', and some even have additional formal pronouns versions of those pronouns. In fact, this is the case in most Indo-European languages.
• 4. For more information on 'you' in other languages, see the page on the T-V distinction.

I like it. We should avoid having too much overlapping. PizzaMargherita 21:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You... Drew?

For some reason, you shows up as Drew in part of the article. I am not savvy enough to figure out why this is, as when you look at the edit page, it appears that it IS written as "you" but for some reason comes out formatted as "Drew". I'm guessing someone named Drew was having some fun.

[edit] You guys

I think calling "you guys" basilectal is rather pedantic considering that this construction is probably heard in 99 % of American TV shows and is widely used in colloquial language, especially among young people in the Midwest, Northeast and western coast of the United States (don't know about other regions). I would say "you guys" (like "you all", "you people", etc...) is informal/familiar/colloquial, more so than "basilectal". Mbruno 13:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that calling "you guys" or "y'all" basilectal is a reach. The English dialects which have different words or constructions for the second person plural pronoun are otherwise still intelligible to those who speak dialects without them, and are by no stretch of the imagination on the way to becoming different languages. I think I'll remove the sentence. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure that basilectal is quite that restricted. Basilectal involves those versions of a language that follow different usage norms from a standard language, in such a way that those who use the basilectal forms have some ability to reconfigure their speech to conform to the standard. It also suggests that the basilectal forms are used by an underclass, and that their counterpart, the acrolectal forms, are seen as educated or higher class. In this sense I'd definitely say that y'all is a basilectal form, and you guys is at minimum too informal for an acrolect. Smerdis of Tlön 20:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Smerdis and would go further. "y'all" is quite distinctive, perhaps even moreso than "thee" and "thou". I after reading the entry basilect y'all may want to refer to dialect. Also for Speakers of Other Languages, the differences in using "y'all" and "you" for the plural is very noticeable and significant. Also, the widespread use of "you"(2nd person plural)+"guys"(masculine noun synonymous with "fellas" or "dudes") is different then using "yous-" or "youse-" or even "you guys" as a consistent and gender neutral manner of address. You might also want to look up pedant, especially when delineating the differences between basilectal and colloquial!

[edit] Yous guys

The form 'yous' and 'yous guys' is also very common in and around the Philadelphia area, especially in Upper Darby. Gershonw 20:07, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Liverpool, England usage of yews/yous

Yous is used extensivley in Liverpool (see here) for definition ... maybe this and the Philadelphia example should be in the article David Humphreys 02:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

... and here for an example of it being used on the Liverpool F.C. talk page --David Humphreys 02:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Me redirects here

If you is the second person singular, what is me? I dont know what the term is, or else i'de add it, but i believe every redirect should at least be mentioned on the target page. Although it makes for a good wikipedia-related pickup line ( 'Me redirects to [you]]' ) Kaldosh 08:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Youse

Can someone write a separate article on this word? It has widespread usage in Australia in the non-standard dialects of English, and it sounds very peculiar to one accustomed to the standard 'you'. If someone writes an article on this, I should like to read it. Rintrah 09:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

In many areas of Australia people will be confused if you address a group as 'you'; eg. 'Are you going to the cinema?' would sound like you are only talking to one of them. The 'Are youse going to the cinema?' would be the only natural way to refer to the group. It is pervasive modern language in most parts of the country and suburbs and needs to be included in the article. I understand its common in some places in East Coast USA too, possibly with some kind of Irish emigrant descent.

[edit] Singular & Plural

Because you is both singular and plural, various English dialects have attempted to revive the distinction between a singular and plural you to avoid confusion between the two uses. This is typically done by adding a new plural form; examples of new plurals sometimes seen and heard are you-all/y'all (primarily in the Southeast United States), you guys (Midwest, Northeast, West Coast, Australia), youse/youse guys (Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, New York City region, Michigan's Upper Peninsula), and you-uns/yins (Pennsylvania). [1] English spoken in Ireland, known as Hiberno-English, sometimes uses the word ye or yee as the plural form of you, but more commonly uses youse, which is more commonly spelt as yous. Although these plurals are useful in daily speech, they are generally not found in Standard English.

This doesn't seem to be entirely accurate with respect to Australia. Most speakers I have encountered use "youse" as a singular, second-person pronoun as well — for instance, "youse going to the shops?". "Youse" might have been invented to re-establish the distinction between singular and plural, but it seems to have replaced "you" altogether in those local dialects of Australian speakers.

Generally the usage of "youse" and "you" is distinguished by class: working class people more often prefer "youse', and upper and middle class people "you". However, the reflexive pronoun "yourself" is used by all classes, usually colloquially, in conjugation with another noun in unorthodox syntax — for instance, "Michael and yourself can have the food", or "He gave it to him and yourself".

I do not have scholarly evidence for this case of "youse" — my evidence is anecdotal —, so I will refrain from editing the paragraph. Rintrah 06:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I found "youse" in singular number in the American novel Reqiuem for a Dream. I do not know how well this novel reflects American dialects, but I thought this instance interesting. I suspect "youse" merely being for the plural is wrong, and that the article needs this small revision. Rintrah 09:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

In America, youse, yall, yens, yuns, and the like are definately plural in usage. However, in some contexts they may appear to adress one person only. For instance, if the individual adressed is representative of a group, the plural pronoun is prefered. While the singular pronoun would usually be adequate for this purpose, to those who recognize a difference between singular and plural, the plural is more socially comfortable because of the distance it puts between the speaker and listener. For an example, observe this hypothetical situation: A young man has an unconfessed crush on the young lady next door. One day, he hears tell arround school that her family is moving. He is dreadfully worried and wishes to verify this rumour with the young lady in question yet without revealing his particular interest in her fate. He says to her, "Are yall really moving to Nebraska?", where yall refers to the entire family rather than the girl alone. Speakers who do not use the plural pronoun would still recognize the difference in this situation by asking "Is your family really moving to Nebraska?". However, because yall is misunderstood by those not accustomed to its use, some believe that yall may be used to adress an individual. This misunderstanding may frequently be seen in sundry media such as novels, movies, and comedy skits. I suspect that the situation is similar in Australia. --Jr mints 14:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations!

Congratulations on winning the coveted "TIME Person of the Year"! ★MESSEDROCKER★ 12:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. (You mean me, right? I didn't see anyone else stepping up to acknowledge your award.) Rintrah 14:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Colbert accepted the award on your behalf, actually. But while I'm here: "In 2006, you were selected as the Person of the Year, referring to the community collaboration in making the history, as opposed to a Great Man" -- should that read "In 2006, you was selected..."?

I think we need separate article on "you". SYSS Mouse 20:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

"you was selected..."? or "you was salect'd..."? Ain't that be da currect one? Rintrah 12:55, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Hahah. I laughed when I saw that! What's funnier is that it's COMPLETELY appropriate for this article!!! =P WACGuy 22:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sem-protection

I demand that this page be semi-protected!--Arceus fan 15:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Why? 193.95.165.190 12:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Because I just edited it for the worse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.75.101.149 (talk) 02:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slang

On the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya we can see redirection from word "ya" that is used in slang for "you". I think that also chapter for slang usage schould be placed in article or at least small mention about it. Could anyone add it? I do not feel competent enought in english :) --Varciasz (talk) 22:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You as One

In this sentence:

"If you go to nightclubs in Norfolk, you find some beautiful women."

'You' is used in the same sense as 'one' would be in a more formal register. I believe this is a very common way of using 'you' in informal, especially spoken, english, and it's something we should document. Sadly, i am too lazy and inexpert to do it.

-- Tom Anderson 2008-05-09 0120 +0100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.56.64.74 (talk) 00:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure this is correct. Consider "If one goes to nightclubs in Norfolk, one finds some beautiful women." and "If Tom goes to nightclubs in Norfolk, Tom finds some beautiful women." The use of "one" is as a generic third-person pronoun, where as You is the generic second-person pronoun. The "You" vs. "One" connection that you may be thinking of probably results from a convention in English essays that discourages referring directly to the reader (e.g. through using second person pronouns). Teachers often teach students to use a third person pronoun instead as a quick fix. NJGW (talk) 00:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Tom is right. people often use "you" to refer to any one falling into a specific category; "You can't get past the 256th level of Pacman" is in the same veins of "It's impossible for 2 people to be taller then each other" then "You don't know how to do long division because you failed highschool". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.11.77 (talk) 19:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)