Talk:Yojimbo (film)

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A plot summary needs to be added to this film article, or the current one needs to be expanded.

I'd like to see a citation or some authoritative source, preferably a primary source, on whether or not Red Harvest should be listed as the "source" of Yojimbo's plot. I've read Red Harvest and I've watched Yojimbo. I've read countless USENET postings, I've read some web article, and I've read some articles from various critics. I've never seen an authoritative primary source quoting Kurosawa that Red Harvest was a source for Yojimbo. I don't think the plots of the two works are that close, either. In Red Harvest, the Continental Op is a hired private investigator who arrives in the town to find that the person who hired him is now dead. The father of the dead man then hires him to find the murderer. The first third of the novel is spent on this. The second part of the novel finds the Continental Op then deciding to take apart the town for his own motives - but the town is not divided into two gangs. Every person in the town is out for themselves and every person has some sort of secret pertaining to some other person. The Op is working on revealing those secrets so that individuals take each other out. Alliances between individuals shift constantly - almost from page to page. There is a relationship with a femme fatale character. The finale part of the novel sees two more operatives from the Continental agency arrive to help the Continental Op. The Continental Op is drugged and when he awakes he finds the femme fatale dead in the bed beside him. He then works at speedily killing or having the town people kill each other before he gets the murder pinned on him. New characters are constantly arriving in the plot and then dieing in a matter of a few pages to move the plot along. That is nothing like Yojimbo. I think the whole "Red Harvest is Yojimbo" thing started with some Marxist literary analysis of Red Harvest that then became applied to Yojimbo - which analysis is fine and ok. But to say that Yojimbo is "derived" or "based" on Red Harvest is not a factual statement. Whoever

The Red Harvest book is too complicated for film. This is the reason the core of the story, a man pitching two gangs to clear a city is used as a plot, if you are to make a film out of it. This is what makes people believe that some movies are based in Red Harvest. If the acknowledgement of Kurosawa or just comparing the plots of the book and the movie are factual enough might need some further discussion. Vaceituno

I've always been told that Sanjuro was a prequel to Yojimbo. — Gwalla | Talk 9 July 2005 01:26 (UTC)

While I don't know if there's any official word on which film happens first chronologically, it is definite that the character Mifune plays in the films is the same. His surname is Sanjuro in each, and he takes his given name from the plants he looks at after being asked his name. I've edited that section to reflect this. Vuffster

Since (as far as I know) it has never been stated categorically that the two films are sequel and prequel, I've changed this to 'companion piece' and put back the supporting information. I've also moved it out of the Trivia section - it's more important than 'a character in such and such had a name that was the title of this film in English or looked vaguely like him' etc. Yomangani 10:17, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 macrons or not? 2 Red Harvest Redux 3 The Guy With The Gun 4 Significance 5 Different characters in Yojimbo and Sanjuro?! 6 influenced by 7 Yojimbo or Yōjimbō? 8 Man with no Name 9 Fair use rationale for Image:Yojimbo shot.jpg 10 Is anybody still working on this? 11 Fair use rationale for Image:Yojimbo.jpg

[edit] macrons or not?

The title of this film usually appears as Yojimbo rather than Yōjimbō, so according to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) the macrons should be removed. --DannyWilde 13:35, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

The recent book "The Emperor and the Wolf" has some interesting information on Toho's legal action against the makers of Fistful of Dollars, since it didn't credit Kurosawa and co. at all, as far as I can recall. I don't have the book anymore, but that information might be worth adding if anyone does have a copy.

"The Title is Yojimbo but when referencing the word it should be yōjimbō I believe... and that's what I'm going to change it to. Also, a proper transliteration of the title next to the Japanese seems useful... comment on my changes I'm about to make if you'd like. gren グレン ^? 00:08, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

You forgot to add that he was an Aeon in the FFX game, I added it.

[edit] Red Harvest Redux

According to this article, Kurosawa scholar David Desser "states categorically that "Yojimbo is an adaptation of Dashiell Hammett's 'Red Harvest'", as does film critic Manny Farber. There are also Kurosawa scholars who don't agree. Regardless of what the "truth" of the matter is, we have reliable sources who make the claim, and so we should report it. Describing those reliable sources as "unsubstantiated rumors" is terribly POV writing. Nandesuka 15:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

"A number of Kurosawa scholars and critics state" is a clear case of weasel word usage, which should be avoided in favor of attributing such statements directly to the people who make them. As for NPOV, the Salon article demonstrates that there is no consensus on the issue, so when citing it in this article the NPOV stance should be taken.
—Asatruer 16:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

While normally I'd agree with you, you have to compare it to the previous sentence, which was even less NPOV and much, much more weaseley. In any event, I've rewritten it thusly: "Kurosawa scholar David Desser and critic Manny Farber, among others, state categorically that Red Harvest was the inspiration for the film, while other scholars, such as Donald Richie, believe the similarities are coincidental.[1]." Nandesuka 20:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Guy With The Gun

Is his name Uno? And who is the actor who portrays him?

Tatsuya Nakadai - Arsian120 02:18, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the guys name is Unosuke, in the film they call him "Uno" for short. Yojimbo501 (talk) 20:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Significance

Though implied in the 'returning the favor' section (which I think probably ought to be renamed to something more sensical), the article does not explicitly discuss anywhere the significance and importance of this film. I wish I had a citation for it, but it seems to me that in general, there are many people who consider this one of the most famous, most important, most significant and/or most influential samurai films of all time. The way this articles reads right now, this could be any film at all. This isn't "Just Another Teen Movie" or whatever. When something is famous or influential or significant, we should talk about that. LordAmeth 08:23, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Different characters in Yojimbo and Sanjuro?!

I removed a sentence stating that it is not clear that the protagonists of Yojimbo and Sanjuro are the same character. This seems to be creating a non-existent problem. Given that both are scruffy, cynical ronin who call themselves 'Sanjuro' and are played by the same actor, I don't think some great mystery is intended. Cop 633 18:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

There's also the fact that they were made by the same director in a row and only a year apart... Hope no one lost any sleep over this. Mukake 20:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

There's nothing implying Sanjuro takes place during or after the Meiji Restoration (where Yojimbo takes place). In fact it appears to take place hundreds of years earlier. Also in Yojimbo he calls himself Kuwabatake Sanjuro. In Sanjuro his name is Tsubaki Sanjuro. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.89.165.90 (talk) 21:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

There's nothing implying it doesn't take place after Meiji, either. And as for the names ... they're pseudonyms, so of course they change! In Yojimbo, when asked his name, he looks out of the window, sees a mulberry field, and says he is 'Kuwabatake Sanjuro' ('Mulberry Field Thirtysomething'). In Sanjuro, when asked his name, he looks out of the window, sees some camellia flowers and says his name is 'Tsubaki Sanjuro' ('Camellia Thirtysomething'). If that doesn't indicate IT'S THE SAME GUY, I don't know what does! Cop 633 21:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] influenced by

I'd have to suggest that the influenced by movies section is probably largely original research. I mean, it's a matter of opinion to say whether or not Lucky Number Slevin took its' hero recruited by both sides from this movie. If a movie reviewer or anyone published said it, then it should be sourced. If not, it's against wikipedia policy as original research. Also: I have a little OR opinion myself, that I figure has to be backed up by somebody published somewhere. The movie Pale Rider is technically a remake of Shane, but clearly is a take off Yojimbo, except the wanderer is a priest, and is unambiguously in it for god and uninterested in money, and also, when he saves the couple he has sex with the wife? It's a take off Yojimbo in the scene progression. There's even a scene where he's let his guard down drinking in a bar that's pretty similar to Yojimbo except that it makes zero sense. 66.41.66.213 02:40, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and Titanic is actually a remake of Yojimbo except they changed absolutely everything. You're right about the OR, I have removed the latter part of the section which offered zero evidence for its claims. Cop 633 03:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yojimbo or Yōjimbō?

Someone moved the page to 'Yōjimbō' on the grounds that it's essential to distinguish long and short vowels in Japanese words. I moved it back because this is only essential when one is actually speaking Japanese, and this is the English Wikipedia; policy is to use the common English title (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films)) and this title is usually represented in English without the accent markers. The accent markers do appear in the transliteration following the title in the main body of the article, and that is all that is needed. Cop 633 18:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Man with no Name

"Thus, "Sanjuro" can be viewed as the original "Man with No Name" concept, made famous in the Clint Eastwood-Sergio Leone collaborations."

I understand that A Fistful of Dollars is a shot for shot remake of Yojimbo, but regardless of Yojimbo's relationship to Red Harvest I would argue that Red Harvest has a "Man With No Name" protagonist as well. I don't think you can say that Yojimbo was the first, nor do I see the point. 99.229.72.161 15:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Yojimbo shot.jpg

Image:Yojimbo shot.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is anybody still working on this?

Well, if so I think we need to sort this out. As one of Akira Kurosawa's most famous films I think it deserves better. I think, if we work on a number of things this can become a B article. We should:

1 Get proper citation, and links.

2 Add to the current plot section.

3 This is a no brainer. Look for misspelled language.

That is all I can think of but feel free to add other objectives. Yojimbo501 (talk) 20:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Yojimbo.jpg

Image:Yojimbo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)