Talk:Yellow Emperor
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[edit] Chi You/蚩尤
The link in the introductory paragraph leads to a korean deity of the same name, is this a confusion or are they actually the same figure? it seems that there are at least two articles about this figure, one is more generalized and other seems to be korean centric, I'm changing the link to the first article, if anyone disagree, feel free to talk about it here and/or change it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.205.21 (talk) 09:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 皇帝 versus 黄帝
I thought that the Yellow Emperor is written 皇帝 (Huáng Dì). Although 黄 (huáng) means yellow, I regularly saw 皇 in combination with 帝. Could someone tell me the difference in the usage of those two character combinations? Thanks a lot Gugganij 21:53, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- They are just homophones. Look at the last sentence of The Three August Ones and the Five Emperors. --Menchi 22:06, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- O.K., thus 黄帝 refers to the mystical emporer and 皇帝 to the first historical one. Is this right? Gugganij 23:24, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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- 皇帝 is just a common noun meaning "emperor". The First Qin Emperor just happens to be the first one who uses that term. All emperors after him are 皇帝s as well. --Menchi 23:44, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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- Thank you for your prompt replies! Gugganij 00:06, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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皇帝 (Emperor) is a title. There were dozens if not hundreds of 皇帝 (Emperors) through out the history of China. They all lived in the historical period when written lauguages were fully developed, therefore their deeds were fully recorded.
黄帝 , on the other hand, is only one person. He has a name "公孙 轩辕＂．He was the chief of one of the most powerful tribes in prihistoric China along the Yellow River drainage basin. He together with ＂炎帝＂-- the chief of a rivalry tribe, eventually allied with him -- were considered the ancestor of all the modern day Chinese. They lived thousands of years prior to the title "皇帝" existed and their stories were passed along from generation to generation until written words were invented. The title 皇帝 borrowed one word from "黄帝" and "炎帝" to add the legitimacy and authority that were bestowed from the heaven.
How stupid to translate into "yellow emperor". It's better use pronunciation translation, not word by word. Based on the "Five Elements" theory, yellow is the color of "earth" which is located in the center. The other four are: Wood, east; Fire, south; Metal, west; Water, north. So actually, 黄帝 means the king/emperor of the central kingdom which is same as the meaning of 中国.
- If what you say is true, perhaps you could write it up and stick it in the article? Hanfresco (talk) 08:33, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Name
Should this be at Yellow Lord instead? The term 皇帝 means Emperor and was not invented until Qin Shihuang took over. 帝 doesnt necessarily mean "emperor" --Jiang 10:35, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- It might be a better translation, but Yellow Lord is used less often than Yellow Emperor. Shawnc 02:56, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Name Confusion
Any references to the Yellow Emperor tend to be related to Qin Shi Huang. "Huang Di" is just a generic term for "emperor" in Mandarin Chinese. "Huang," although describes the colour "yellow," is also used synonymously with "royalty" and "di" means "earth". Thus, "Huang Di" simply describes any "ruler of the earth," with no relation to any specific emperor.
[edit] Wrong Story
Yellow Emperor is depicted as a human being. Nuwa and Fuxi are said to have snake/dragon bodies. Edipedia 16:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Era usage
This article used BC notation until November 2005 when User:Joe Kress changed to the BCE notation [1] in an edit with a summary that didn't mention the change. It is clear that the original intention was to use BC and that was the preference of the first major editor of this article. According to Wiki policy, therefore, BC notation should be used. If BC/AD isn't used in China, no problem. Use BCE/CE in the Chinese Wikipedia, but in the English version please maintain the preference of the first major editor. Arcturus 20:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Coherent, accessible writing
I would like to see this article made easier to understand by readers who don't yet know any Chinese history.
This article is more a list of legends and stories than a coherent article. It is hard for someone without background in Chinese culture to understand the significance of the Yellow Emperor. Here are some questions I would like to see answered by the article: Is the Yellow Emperor a major cultural figure in China? Is that why he's important? Is he mainly the hero of children's fairy tales? Is he mainly a figure in classical Chinese opera? Is there any reason at all to think he is historical? Does his life have a course from beginning to end, or is it just a random collection of episodes? What happens in the episodes (e.g., the westward retreat) – I could not tell from the article why anyone cares about this retreat, what he was retreating from, how the Han Chinese come into it, or how Han Chinese differ from other Chinese. (I know the answers to many of these questions, but the average curious reader will not. I suggest it will not hurt to give a few words explaining who Han Chinese are, and more words on the more significant of these questions. Other natural questions may occur to some of you, and that can lead to writing a better article.) Zaslav 06:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Copyvio
The Copyvio notice should only be added to the page if the entire page and all revisions are copyvios according to Wikipedia:Copyright problems, which is where full page copyvios are collected. If only a portion of the page violates a copyright, then it says that the page should be reverted to a non-copyright version if possible (and a notice sent to the offending editor). Removal of the copyrighted text accomplishes that task. Wikipedia:Copyright#If you find a copyright infringement says to state on the talk page that copyrighted text has been removed and give its source (this entry accomplishes that task). Because the copyvio source was good, I added it as an external link. — Joe Kress 03:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Huangdi as a Chinese Mythological figure
The text added by 58.20.45.82 looks too much like a story to be his own work. I suspect it was copied, hence is a possible copyvio, so I am removing it. If it is in the public domain, please provide its source. In any case, this is an encyclopedia, so details of the legend should not be in the form of a story. — Joe Kress 05:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Revert incorrect anti-copyviol edit
Hi, my edit that reclaims copyright violation from ibiblio.org URL, now I think was wrong. According to web.archive.org seems is Mr. Werz to be ispired from here and others Wikipedia articles (see Shennong, "A close kin of the...", 25 February 2005). Please accept my apologies. --F. Cosoleto 13:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
- I should have caught that myself, especially since I have seen several other alledged 'copyvio's that were actually copied from Wikipedia without attribution. Furthermore, I have been monitoring and contributing to the article (in a minor way) since 2005 when the text is question was largely developed, The basic template was instituted by Mandel on 25 February 2005, and its basic wording was in place on 9 November 2005 when I contributed a couple of minor words to the compass parargraph, added the day before by Hanchi. That was reordered by 86.11.132.22 on 19 May 2006, and the enemy named as Chi You by Aranherunar on 3 July 2006, resulting in one of the paragraphs deleted as 'copyvio'. Unfortunately, I wasn't paying attention to this article, being more concerned with other articles. — Joe Kress 22:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] translation error
Why do people translate Emperor Huang as "Yellow Emperor"? Did Emperor Huang colored yellow? "Huang" means "yellow" in Chinese only as a simple word, but not in this situation. I think "Yellow Emperor" should change to "Emperor Huang". Anthony Li
- Huangdi indeed chose yellow as his color, from the color of the Huang Ho or Yellow river (the muddiest river in the world). But first preference for the title of articles in the English Wikipedia should be their common English name, if they have one. Google has 177,000 hits for "Yellow Emperor", 107,000 for Huangdi, 88,000 for "Huang di", 60,000 for "Huang ti", or 1320 for Huangti (262,000 hits for all permutations of his romanized name, excluding shih or shi). "Emperor Huang" has virtually no hits so is unacceptable. This count leans towards "Yellow Emperor". I have no preference except for excluding Emperor Huang. The alternate name in the article is already Huang Di, although I think that violates pinyin guidelines, which would prefer Huangdi. — Joe Kress 05:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
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- As acceptable as "Yellow Emperor" as a translation of "Huangdi" is, he was neither yellow nor an emperor. I suggest the article be named "Huangdi" and can be redirected from "Yellow Emperor" and other variations. Chevrox 02:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Offended!
Dont it seem like the term "Yellow Emperor" seem racist! I think this need it be changed. I am terribly offended. Please change this. I would but i dont know how to edit well. I am Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.223.169.188 (talk) 22:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC).
- According to this book on world religions that gives an overview of Taoïsme, "the people called him the "Yellow Emperor" because of his rule that was full of compassion and benevolence." (quickly translated from french) You seem to be finding political incorrectness where there is none. --Dandin1 18:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chi-You vs Huangdi
"Chi-You's victory over Huangdi after 72 battles." If some Koreans believe this, I suspect it is a recent phenomenon right? Hanfresco 05:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
