Talk:Yehuda HaKohen
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[edit] Notability
I agree with the editor who expressed a concern that the subject of the article does not satisfy the notability guideline or one of the following guidelines for inclusion on Wikipedia: Biographies, Books, Companies, Fiction, Music, Neologisms, Numbers, Web content, or several proposals for new guidelines.
When is this page going to be taken down? The preceding comments were made by User:58.178.250.106
I think the notibility of the subject is beyond question as Yehuda HaKohen is certainly a public person. And references have been added using footnotes. Please remove the boxes which place this article in question. Thank you. Benny K 13:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- HaKohen is an unknown in Israel outside the settler movement. Having lived in the country for several years, and with a deep knowledge of Israeli politics, I have never heard his name mentioned before. Google searches of the Haaretz and Jerusalem Post websites (the two mainstream English-language daily papers in Israel) bring no results, which suggest he is not a "public person".
- To be honest, the article is so in depth for such a minor personality that I suggest it has been written by either himself, a relative or friend. Additionally, it contains many POV issues (e.g. referring to the West Bank as Judea and Samaria) and uses citations from the highly politically biased (in the far right direction) Arutz Sheva. I move for deletion. Number 57 15:27, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I wrote the article after a great deal of research and even an interview with the subject. HaKohen is known beyond the settler movement in Israeli activist circles and also on many American college campuses. I assumed that Arutz Sheva was a legitimate news source (as all news sources in Israel tend to have a political bias in some direction) and his name does bring several results if searched on the Arutz Sheva website. But I apologize if the subject is unworthy for Wikipedia and will understand if the article is deleted. Benny K 23:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I have nothing to do with the settler movement but I know who Yehuda HaKohen is. I even heard him speak once. I think more young people know him. Also, I don't believe that the political bias of a media source should affect the legitimacy of citations from that source. Even though I disagree with Arutz Sheva most of the time I recognize that other people get their news there. Divina SJ 00:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I second for deletion. Hakohen is clearly known only within certain miniscule circles in Israel- he is irelevant.
Yehuda HaKohen was in the news just last week for a demonstration in Jerusalem against Russia and Iran--Naama 08:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- Strange how all the "for" people are new user accounts who are only editing related articles... I stand by my claims that HaKohen is not noteworthy enough to appear on Wikipedia Number 57 10:34, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Strange enough that appears true on your side as well (with the notable exception of yourself). Like I said, delete the article if the subject is not famous enough for Wikipedia. I admit that there are people more prominent than HaKohen who do not have their own article. In my personal opinion, rather than delete the HaKohen article, these other people should be added. But grind your political axe somewhere else. Using the term “Judea and Samaria” rather than “West Bank” is possibly a neutrality issue but not one of notability (although I assure you that this is what the entire world called that piece of land until its title was altered in the 1950 Encyclopedia Britannica for the sake of lending legitimacy to the Jordanian annexation). For someone you don’t find important enough for this encyclopedia, HaKohen seems to be generating a disproportionate amount of debate. Delete the article if you like but please stop the bickering. I feel it should be beneath all of us. Benny K 14:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, great - now when will the article be deleted? And what about Karma Feinstein Cohen and the Zionist Freedom Alliance?
I am against the deletion of this page. If the subject's notability is questionable but not clearly proven or refuted, I think it is better to keep the article up. But the Karma Feinstein Cohen article should be deleted. She is not very well known.--Divina SJ 12:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not one of these new editors you've been complaining about Number 57. Check my history. I think HaKohen is notable by Wikipedia guidelines, if only barely. He has a growing following on college campuses in the States, and appearing on Haaretz shouldn't be sort of litmus test for inclusion of Israeli political figures. Look through Wikipedia, how many random, unknown bands with few if any citations appear? HaKohen is one of the young guns of far-right Israeli politics, and he deserves inclusion. That having been said, you're right that the article seems too long and too unsourced. I'd definitely approve of a revision down in size. Some of the early biographical details aren't really necessary. Scharferimage 13:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the article should not be deleted but I think it is very misleading to call Yehuda HaKohen far-right. What do you base this on? Aren't many of his positions left of center? Or is the size of Israel's borders the only criteria for measuring where a person should stand on Israel's linear political spectrum.--Divina SJ 13:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- I agree that a linear spectrum is very shallow and that Yehuda HaKohen is not really far right. But for better or worse this is the label given to any Jew against a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.--Benny K 15:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I fixed the citations and hope that this article now fully qualifies for Wikipedia.--Benny K 15:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Benny K - are you the same "Benny K" from the Zionist Freedom Allaiance's website http://www.zfa.org.il/opinions/justice_israel.html ? If that is the case and you are an active member of Yehuda Hakohen's cohort, surely that makes you terribly biased? Further more who are you guys really trying to kid? The ZFA, Hakohen, and Karma Feinstein Cohen are clearly fringe characters within the Zionist Movement let alone the world - why should they be on the wikipedia? There isn't a page for Danny Danon, the world head of Betar as well as Chairperson of World Likud... You should stop using this website to establish credentials for yourself. This is not an advertising tool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.178.250.106 (talk • contribs)
- In answer to your first question: No I'm not him. And I think HaKohen is well known enough to merit a Wikipedia article. I'm not sure why you call him fringe or why you are so adamant about deleting this page. WikiProject Israel is looking build a comprehensive guide to Israel and we should be working to expand the encyclopedia. I think that Danny Danon is certainly an important figure and should have his own entry. You should write one. If you don't think that your writing skills are up to par you can send me his info and a list of citations so I can put the entry together. The Israeli political spectrum is very diverse and complex. The more subjects available to the public on the various personalities and philosophies among Zionists the better Wikipedia will be as a reference tool for Zionist issues.--Benny K 20:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
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- This is not a deletion vote I suggest that some people read up on editing WP, the difference between a discussion for deletion and a prod for notability, as well as WP:OR. Given that, this article fails OR, especially since Benny K (doesn't matter who s/he is) blatantly admited to having written and researched this article, and IMO, the subject of this article, while I'd enjoy having him over for a Shabbat, does not seem to pass notablility. Another mistake of the editor was the over-exhuberance and size of the article making it classic WP:VANITY. A little modesty would have probably kept this article unknown until Mr HaKohen built a more significant and referenceable public image, maybe in the future. --Shuki 19:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
If WikiProject Israel hopes to build a comprehensive guide to Israeli society and politics, it is crucial that the encyclopedia include personalities who are politically active but not in higher office. Entries such as this one help to expand the Wikipedia and give the public a better understanding of the intricacies that make up the Israeli political culture (which I would argue is much more complex than in most countries). Yehuda HaKohen is just one good example of how diverse and non-linear Israeli politics can be. The more subjects available to the public on the various personalities and philosophies among Zionists the better Wikipedia will be as a reference tool for Zionist issues. Furthermore, I have fixed the citations and shortened the entry in hopes that this article now fully qualifies for Wikipedia’s standards.--Benny K 14:09, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Good start, but IMO, fixing up an article still does not make a person notable. The article is now less blatant, but the history of this person still does not seem to warrant an article. Perhaps I am wrong, can you find examples of other 'unknown' activists with articles? Being the head of a small unknown group also does not improve anything. Whether I identify with the group's activities or not, the article on Mag Herut might also be not legitimate. The way it is written is also PR puff. --Shuki 21:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I have posted my response to Shuki's talk page--Benny K 17:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
- Why are you posting to my talk page? The discussion is here. I suggest you read up about editing on wikipedia. The pages you sent me are interesting, some bordering on prod, others notable. Some do not do justice for the subject of the article. But that is besides the point. YK is still NN. You heard a 'rumour' about getting on the podium at a public event. a) OR, b) I assume that most people speaking at that event, while being very coherent and righteous, are also NN. --Shuki 18:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
When does this page get deleted?
- sign your posts, first of all. If you want to dramatically decrease the length of the page, and end up with a fair, and fairly short, article that meets wikipedia standards, go for it. Scharferimage 14:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I was at the concert in Central Park on May 6 after the Salute to Israel Parade. Yehuda HaKohen spoke very well. The other speakers at the event were Shmuel Sackett and Effi Eitam. It is a really big event each year and I dont think the organizers invite people to speak who arent seen as important at least in the Zionist world. Appearing on stage at such an event should prove Hakohens notability.--Naama 20:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Not. Please read up on WP guidelines for notability and editing in general. A) Going to a concert and seeing someone on stage is Original Research, B) just because the organizers thought he was notable, does not mean that his 'is'. Did he make headlines? Can you find a link to something he said there showing his relevance, from a site that is not related to him or his friends? --Shuki 19:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
