Talk:Survivor (TV series)

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Survivor (TV series) was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Reviewed version: August 8, 2006

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Archive 1 (2004.12.23 to 2006.03.7)

Contents 1 Opening Bias 2 Influence on pop culture 3 Photo 4 Game Rules Image Problem 5 Spoiler Warning 6 Tiebreaker edit 7 regarding immunity_challenge merge 8 Good Article nomination has failed 9 Survivor Eliza Orlins up for deletion 10 Survivor UK Section of Survivor (TV Series) Main page 11 Basis for Game Rules? 12 the car curse 13 Survivor: Cook Islands will be shown in Singapore 14 Photographers 15 Coral Ad in Australia 16 Survivor WikiProject 17 Wikify template 18 DVD releases 19 Contestant placement table for seasons necessary? 20 Logo? 21 Spoilers for Fiji season 22 Where's the trivia? 23 This Logo? 24 Survivor 16 in Palau 25 Survivor 17 26 Merchandise Section 27 Survivor: Panama Exile Island DVD? 28 Where do episode titles come from?!? 29 Just wondering... 30 Other uses banners 31 Suggested page split 32 Criticism? 33 Survivor according to Game Theory

[edit] Opening Bias

"Swedish show Expedition: Robinson, is commonly considered the mother of reality TV because it was the first highly-rated and profitable reality show on broadcast television. "

-I always thought Big Brother was considered the first successful reality show. I mean, which country are we talking about here when it comes to high ratings? In the UK Survivor was a failure. If we are talking about the US version only, we should move the Premise to the introduction.

Country of origin: United States is also incorrect. it should either read Britain or Sweden.

Magic Pickle 11:37, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I also think that there should be a mention of Shipwrecked: Battle Of The Islands, since Survivor has obviously influenced the format of this show.

Mr Goodbyte 19:17, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influence on pop culture

Perhaps we should include a brief discussion of Survivor's effect on the phrases "alliance" and "you've been voted off the island" Novati 23:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

With the new Survivor: Fiji logo out, can someone edit the photo? Thanks in advance. CrossingGuard 09:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Game Rules Image Problem

At the bottom, instead of an image, I see this: "Jenisys.jpg (2KB, MIME type: image/jpeg)". 24.50.211.226 13:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

It was a broken image so I took it out. There should be nothing wrong now.TeckWiz 13:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler Warning

I removed {{spoiler}} from the end of the intro because, in my opinion, the general layout of the show (prizes, rules, ...) is not a significant element of the plot. Knowing it doesn't "spoil" the viewers' experience. --DanDanRevolution 00:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The Tribal Council section DOES spoil, as it reveals losers of tie-breakers. (I will now remove that information - someone else may put them back in appropriate positions below the Spoiler sign) 80.222.222.118 15:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Reverted but with the addition of spoiler tags TeckWiz^TalkContribs_{# of Edits} 16:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Are the spoiler tags really of any value here? The concept of a 'spoiler' seems best applied to a story or work (i.e. film) where a reasonable person might want to embark into it and get the experience of following the path the author intended. By the logic of applying it to a game show, you would put 'spoiler' around the results of past Super Bowls, or a 'spoiler' for the guy who won big on Jeopardy. Good fun, though! 75.8.224.113 08:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)Chris

I know this discussion is old, but I'll still give you my two cents. I live in Denmark, and here American reality-tv is often broadcast long after it has been aired in USA. So - it would be a spoiler to to us. (sorry - don't know how to sign...)

• Yes, the article is definitely a minefield of spoilers for those of us who live in countries like Taiwan where Survivor isn't even broadcast, and we must wait a year or more for the DVD to come out. I think the article should be cleaned up so spoilers are clearly demarcated. 203.67.37.64 05:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Even if you haven't watched a season but got a DVD or wanted one,and read Wikipedia first,it would spoil the intriugue of who got voted out and such,which can be found here. 99.230.152.143 (talk) 21:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tiebreaker edit

The article used to read like this:

In the event of a tie, the following tiebreakers have been used:

Seasons 1-3: After a tied re-vote, whoever had the most prior Tribal Council votes was eliminated.

That's true for Seasons 2 and 3, but no such thing was used in season 1. The only tie in Season was at the Final 4, and it was resolved at the re-vote, without any need for a tiebraker. Furthermore, I don't think that the "prior Tribal Council votes" rule existed during the first season; in the DVD commentary, they mentioned that in the 1st season, the tiebraker was a "physical challenge". So I changed the article to say "Seasons 2 and 3". 128.230.13.64 01:40, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] regarding immunity_challenge merge

I suggested merging these because the immunity challenge article has little to no information that this one doesn't already have. Following WP:NOT, I think it can be turned into a redirect article, but not much besides. MToolen 05:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• I agree. There really isn't much else to put on there. --Jordan 06:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Per this discussion and the fact that everything on the page is in the main article, I have made it a redirect to the article of this talk page. TeckWiz^TalkContribs_Guestbook 02:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article nomination has failed

The Good article nomination for Survivor (TV series) has failed, for the following reason:

The article is currently very weak in citations, and I think it needs a lot more work in that department before it is ready for GA status. In particular, these sections:

• Lead paragraph - citation requested, none included.
• Premise - no citations given.
• Game rules - no citations given.
• Concept history - one minor citation given, entire section needs citations, footnotes preferred.
• Controversies - each item needs a citation.
• Trivia - each item needs a citation.
• UK Survivor - no citations given.

Thanks and keep up the great work! Aguerriero (talk) 16:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survivor Eliza Orlins up for deletion

You may wish to particpate in the following discussion:

• Eliza Orlins (AfD discussion) - Survivor: Vanuatu -- FeelsLikeHome 18:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survivor UK Section of Survivor (TV Series) Main page

Is it really relevant? I would like to cut it from the page.

Because if it should be included, then all other versions from other countries should be included (e.g. French, Australian, Middle East versions etc etc)

The information is nothing special - its just a rehash of the info from the UK Survivor page.

discuss....

<d3345>l4V78> 08:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

• The UK version is important. The Survivor format was thought up by a British TV exec Charlie Parsons (even though Sweden made it first). It is notable as well because Survivor has been considered a failure in the UK (only two series or 'seasons' were made). UK much prefers Big Brother. Magic Pickle 11:34, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Basis for Game Rules?

What is the source for each of the various game rules listed? Why is the source not cited? If the source isn't a contract signed by the players, it's less than authoritative. One claims it is against the rules to visit another camp unauthorized, but Cao Boi did exactly that on the show aired on October 12, 2006, with no penalty or mention of rules. The "rule" that you can't vote for yourself doesn't make sense: what possible penalty can there be? You can "vote" yourself off the show by quitting at any time. Is there a penalty for wanting to end your presence on the show and go home and then quitting? There was at least one man I recall who did exactly that. His tribe's tribal council was skipped that week, so the show apparently allows sacrificing yourself to give your teammates a bye for one week. Was a "rule" followed there, or did the show's producers just make an ad hoc judgement as to the best thing to do? Might not there be a "rule" in the players' contracts stating that the producers reserver the right to make ad hoc judgements? This article needs responsible documentation of Survivor's rules, since those would be of great interest and they characterize the show in lots of ways. Or perhaps the "Game Rules" section should be called something else. JimmyTheSaint 19:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

About Michael Skupin of Survivor Australia, I dont think he technically violated the rules since he was already removed from the game due to injury when he entered the production area. Slyfield 05:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I think JimmyTheSaint was referring to Osten Taylor of Survivor: Pearl Islands fame. However, people are random, and the show's producers may not be able to think up what to do if there is no rule already in place. This might account for the changes in and sometimes absurdity of the rules. Still, I agree that we need to find a source, as it is mostly what fans have picked up by watching and typed into Wikipedia. The thing is, it may be hard to find a source, because I doubt CBS wants to publish the formula of one of their most successful television shows on the internet where a rival network could take it. We may have to look into it. ~~ ~~ THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR (((¶))) 06:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The basic format of the show is owned by Castaway Television Productions in GB. Any rival network might aquire the rights for the show from them - but CBS probably has bought an exclusive license for for the US market. Mossig 10:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the car curse

If there are 16 players, then the chance that the sole survivor is NOT the car winner (in the absence of the influence of a curse) is 15/16. The chance that the sole survivor is not the car winner 13 times in a row is 15/16 to the 13th power, which is 0.4051, or 40.5%. I don't doubt winning the car has an influence on your ability to win the game because it affects the way the other players think of you. To qualify as a curse, however, the Curse Committee requires the outcome to be less than 1% compared to random chance, which would require 72 consecutive seasons of Survivor where the car winner doesn't win the game. If Survivor even runs for 72 consecutive seasons, God help us. JimmyTheSaint 20:20, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe you're wrong, and that the chances of this happening solely by chance are much lower. Here's why: The car is awarded near the end of the season, usually with about 6 contenstants left. You know that 12 or so survivors are already voted out when the challenge takes place and therefore have 0 chance of winning either the car or the game. Therefore, the existance of a the previously voted off contenstants can be ignored (statistically speaking). This reduced the chance that the sole survivor is not the car winner (in the absence of the influence of a curse) to 5/6 (on average, I'm sure someone will do research as to exactly how many suvivors were left at each challenge). Also, "13 times in a row" can't be used because the first season did not have a car challenge, and the current season's car challenge (if any) hasn't been aired yet. So, the actual formula is (5/6)^11~ 13.46%, significantly lower than your 40.5%. Although this doesn't reduce it to the necessary 1%, it should be noted. (If it continues this season, then (5/6)^12~ 11.22%, still not enough... This discussion might take a while.) 68.181.240.205 09:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC) Sorry forgot to sign in before submitting. This is actually me: Goldencrisp87 09:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Please, please, please never let something like this into the article. It is so trivial it barely warrants dicussion on a fan site. More importantly, since winning the car is a contest not simply a random draw, and each individual contest on each season is differant, I doubt you could ever make an actual case for a 'curse' without making a real statistician cringe in their seat with how ignorant you looked.

[edit] Survivor: Cook Islands will be shown in Singapore

Hooray! Singapore decided to show Survivor: Cook Island! Here's the source: http://ch5.mediacorptv.com/shows/reality/view/1309/1/.htmlAranho 12:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photographers

Is there anybody can show me some information about the photographers of the Survivor? I think it is difficult to avoid the cheat by photographers. --Ffnone 13:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coral Ad in Australia

I'm an Australian who watched Survivor: The Australian Outback and in the episode in which Clay took coral from the reef I remember there being several advertisements during the commercial breaks saying that removing coral from the reef is illegal and carries a hefty fine. I've noted this in the relevant section of the article. The advertisement was very memorable for me because I've never seen one like it before or since. Madge Carew 05:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you mean Colby, not Clay

[edit] Survivor WikiProject

Is there any interest in helping with coordinating the Survivor pages via a Survivor Wikiproject? They're all mostly the same but there's notable differences between then and we've still probably got several seasons to go. I'd be willing to set up the project if it's deemed feasible.

I don't really know if it's big enough. The American edition has only 14 seasons, and the other countries only have one or two each. Big Brother and American Idol have many seasons in many different country (I think BB has over 10). --TeckWiz^TalkContribs_@ 21:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikify template

This article has large sections with few or no wikilinks, so I added the {{wikify}} template. --Ginkgo100^talk 21:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

What wikilinks do you think are needed? Theer certianly are wikilinks in the article. The lack of wikilinks over any given expanse of text is not a reason to add them. wikilinks should be added when necessary. -- Whpq 21:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

As just an example, the section "Tribes" contains a number of terms that a user might want to know more about to give context to the section, such as brackish water, machete, flora, fauna. --Ginkgo100^talk 00:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DVD releases

Are the images of the DVD releases contributing significantly to this article? All six of the images are used under fair-use, the criteria for which requires that "the material must contribute significantly to the article [...] and must not serve a purely decorative purpose." There is no critical commentary on the box art or styling of the DVD releases that the images would be illustrating, nor is their presence necessary to convey the information provided by the accompanying text. So, in what manner are these images contributing significantly to this article? — pd_THOR ^{| =/\=} | 14:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I think keeping one picture (say, either Borneo or All-Stars DVD) as a sidebar, and then listing the others is sufficient, since all the other cases follow the same pattern and thus are recognizable. It would help to cut down the page --Masem 14:39, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contestant placement table for seasons necessary?

That table with the rankings of all the players is really heavy and I believe unnecessary; I can see summarizing the winners in the season description table, but the rankings can be found on each season's page as needed. Any objections to removing it? --Masem 05:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't actually noticed the table. Is it new? Anyway, it needs to go! Go! GO! This page, to my understanding, is about the concept of Survivor, not an amalgamation of every single Survivor page, as the table is making it seem. THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR (((¶))) 06:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

At first I thought this was about the tables on the article pages, which I would have said keep to. However, the ranking table on this page is superfluous, an eyesore, and it stretches the page. I agree it should be removed. --LuigiManiac 06:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logo?

Any reason why there is no logo present on the page? Some sort of dispute? Tarc 18:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoilers for Fiji season

There are spoilers for the Fiji season of this show all over this article, in different un-announced places.

This may be fine for America, but there are lots of places in the world where this season hasn't been shown yet (Australia, for example is only five eps in). How would people feel about deleting this information for this page and leaving it in the Survivor Fiji page?

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.236.214 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

See WP:SPOILER - basically, removing relevant information that makes this page complete for those that have seen Fiji as a courtesy to those that haven't seen it would be violating the policy about spoilers (namely, spoiler warnings and dealing with spoiler warnings should be avoided at all tmes). --Masem 04:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

But this is Survivor! I did add a note, but before I saw your post. I did not remove any of the "spoilers" but just added a note. Please see WP:Ignore all rules as I believe this is one of those cases. WP:SPOILER is not for this type of reality show where spoilers, do just that, spoil it for those who have not seen the series, yet! - Jeeny ^Talk 04:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Masem, Thanks for the prompt response. I understand the policy, but most of the spoilers aren't really crucial to this, a general page about the game show, I think (e.g there's a about three in the 'trivia' section, which by definition isn't really something that makes the page complete). Given that there are pages specifically dealing with the season, for those who want it, I don't think it would be a really big change... 59.167.236.214

To Jeeny: Ignore all rules is for reasons that keep us from maintaining the encyclopedia. What you want to do is almost the opposite. It's already maintained with accurate facts from the past season, and you want to take it out because it hasn't been shown in one place. Wikipedia doesn't run on tape delay. If your reading the page of a series of a currently running show, expect to find spoilers, especially under things like trivia and plot. You can't apply ignore all rules when it hurts the encyclopedia, not helps it. --(Review Me) R ^ParlateContribs_@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 04:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't proposing to remove anything from the article, but thought adding a note about spoilers to be considerate to those who have not seen the last season yet. I don't think the note takes away from the encyclopedic value at all. And, I too thought it was a generic article, which would link to other articles of the different seasons. I guess I'm daff. <shrug> - Jeeny ^Talk 04:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

But this is the point: do this additions really add to the value of the page? I would argue no, not really, especially since there is a page already dealing with specific season. If you read the actual sections on this page pertaining to Fiji you will see they don't really relate to the show as a generality. Would anything be lost if these four or five sentences were ommitted? I really don't think so.59.167.236.214

[edit] Where's the trivia?

I LOVED the trivia article of Survivor, why did someone remove it? I wanna have it again! I wanna have it again! I like it! Why can't you? We NEEEEEEEEEEEEEED this. NEEEEEEED. Don't think we can't have that article. It's important. -- OooohTheChase

Basically, see WP:NOT#IINFO and WP:TRIVIA. --Masem 00:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

If you wanted it that bad, you would have stood up for it in its moment of need. ~~ THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR (((¶))) 00:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

What's the matter, Masem? You WANT to forget about the trivia? This is an ENCYCLOPEDIA, people want to learn more about Survivor. You're removing the facts on wikipedia. -- OooohTheChase

Did you even click on the links provided,OooohTheChase? You also should have tried to keep it from being deleted,only Dark Lord here tried to keep it.:( 99.230.152.143 02:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This Logo?

I was just wondering why the Borneo logo was up when it specifies the 1st season. Shouldn't the universal logo be up if any? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.245.166.76 (talk • contribs)

There is a logo I recall with a man holding a torch. I think it is yellow, and I agree that it should be used instead of the Borneo logo. I will look through the commons and see if I can locate it. ~~ THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR (((¶))) 06:49, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry I'm just really bad @ importing pictures. Could someone do this for me? Thanx!

[edit] Survivor 16 in Palau

SurvivorFever.net's latest news healine in the Survivor: China section says that it has been officially been announced that Palau is the location for Survivor 16—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.29.158 (talk • contribs)

I'm pretty sure Sam's Tours Palau, Blog isn't an official source. --Maxamegalon2000 12:28, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survivor 17

Can I ask, what is the point of having this article, even as a rediret? It implies that, yes, there will be a 17th season, even though this is specualation and crystal balling. I say delete. THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 09:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree - DELETE. BullWikiWinkle 16:16, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merchandise Section

I was just wondering the need for the merchandise section in this article. If someone could explain to me, it would be much appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.29.158 (talk) 00:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survivor: Panama Exile Island DVD?

One user has added information about the upcoming release of season 12 on DVD in early 2008. Can anyone verify this as i have looked in numerous places and have found no such information anywhere. Is it just vandalism? Survivorfan101 03:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where do episode titles come from?!?

For every article for a season of this show excluding Guatemala there are episode titles, where do they come from?

Please cite the source! 99.230.152.143 01:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

TV Guide? DVD? If you're so concerned, go look it up yourself. Oh, and Guatemala does have episode titles. THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 05:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Whoever edited it in should answer. If not, they should cite the source, at least. 99.230.152.143 22:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I do not believe things this trivial should be sourced. Are you planning to get citations for every scrap of trivia as well? How about helping with some clean-up as well as pointing out what's wrong with Wikipedia. Anyway, because I'm a real nice guy, I've gone to the trouble of locating some citations, with thanks to User:Survivorfan101. Barnstars all around, yay! He tells me that [1], [2] and [3] have the titles. I haven't looked at them, but I'm sure you're perfectly capable to do that, 99.230.152.143. Also, how about creating an account? -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 05:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Please stop adding 'citation needed' to the articles. I fail to see how episode titles meet the criteria for when to cite --BullWikiWinkle 20:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh. It never shows a episode title name during the program. If there is a place that says where why not edit it in yourself? 99.230.152.143 20:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Because I do not believe it is neccessary to cite episode titles. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 20:43, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I have instigated a discussion at Wikipedia talk:When to cite, about the citation of episode titles. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 20:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I have replied at Wikipedia talk:When to cite, but I did so before looking here... Reading the comments... the IP editor may have a point. IF the episode titles do not appear on the episodes themselves, then I think you should give some indication as to where we got the titles from. If they all come from the same source (DVD, TV Guide, a Fan Book, etc.) Perhaps a single note eplaining the source placed at the header of the column listing the titles is all that is needed. Of course, if they do appear in the episodes themselves, then I see no reason to cite. Blueboar 20:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I watched the credits to some survivor seasons, and i happen to know that episode titles don't even appear in the credits,or anywhere else on the program,Blueboar. That's why i say they need to be cited. 99.230.152.143 01:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, in my opinion, any tv episode titles on Wikipedia that don't show a title anywhere on the program should be cited,if you ask me.99.230.152.143 01:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Even if we do find that, yes, we should cite them, IP99.230..., the manner in which you did before was not the best way to do it, and you threw the table out of kilter. The correct method would have been to have a link to the website in the References section at the bottom of the article, with a little numbered link taking us there. Please not that I am not trying to bite anyone here (canabilism isn't fun). Of course, I haven't a clue how to do that =p -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 04:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Ditto.99.230.152.143 01:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I was worried you were biting me. It's good you're not! :)99.230.152.143 01:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

All of the episode titles can be found at TV.com --Pixelface 10:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Great! If you know how to put it in the articles,you ought to do that. I don't know how. :) 99.230.152.143 02:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe whoever's reading this but not editing it can do it.99.230.152.143 (talk) 01:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just wondering...

I was just wondering the reason, if any, for the deletion of the Survivor timeline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.29.158 (talk) 21:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It was deleted because it was not important; all information in the table was covered in the rest of the article. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 20:33, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other uses banners

I think this has gotten a bit out of hand. There are FIVE dab's for Survivor listed at the top of this article. Can we not integrate the ones about other versions into the article? (Of course, keeping the regular disambiguation page) -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 04:24, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the international versions -- they're already in the 'See Also' section. I'd probably also like to see the 'previous season' removed and only have the Survivor disambiguation page and the current season dab. -- BullWikiWinkle 15:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested page split

I am suggesting the following renaming and splitting to help reduce the length of this article:

• The first sections, "premise" and its subheadings, and "Game rules" stay at this current article "Survivor (TV series)"
• The remaining sections of this article are moved to "Survivor (US TV series)"

The rationale for this is that this separates the format of the game from details of the US broadcast and marketing of the series. This allows other nation's Survivors to point back to the format section without bogging down in the rules. We have used the same approach for The Amazing Race where this wikilink goes to worldwide-mostly-generic format information, and The Amazing Race (US TV series) points to the specific instances of the broadcast of the show in the US.

The only change this means downstream is that all the US Survivor seasons and contestants would need to update to the US-specific series ("Survivor: Borneo" is an installment of the US series, not the overall concept), which isn't terribly hard to fix. I'd also rewrite the intro a bit for this to explain that the rules are US-centric but generally give the flavor for the full

Any thoughts on this? --MASEM 21:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think that sounds like a good idea. Does it mean we need to read up on the international versions? -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 22:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I've brushed through the existing ones, and most seem to skip a bit on the rules, referring back to here. My suggestion, following what we did for Amazing Race, is that if a international version has rules specific to it, they can use one of "main" or "see also" templates to point back to this page, and then add the changes implemented in that version. --MASEM 22:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me too. Thanks for volunteering your time for the effort, Masem. --BullWikiWinkle 00:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done the split (Survivor (US TV series) should now work). This page (non-US-centric) needs a section about what international versions exist and linking to wikipages that have them. The US-centric page is actually probably fine as it is with the few pieces I added. Also note that I kept the concept history in this article since it talks about Parsons and others. --MASEM 16:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, I will use AutoWikiBrowser later today (unless someone beats me to it) to update all the links that should go to the US centric page. I just need help to make sure the split of information is good. --MASEM 16:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Should the items in the Further reading section be moved to the appropriate page for the corresponding version of the show? -- BullWikiWinkle (talk) 19:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't sure, though some of them likely corroborate the information on the main page. I don't know the content of these books, but given that how now the US series page is mainly about how the show is received, I don't think these books would help out there. Suggestions are recommended. --MASEM 19:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think Further reading sections were meant to corroborate information. If we go by the definition that these are for the purpose of directing the reader to sources that go beyond the scope of the article, I think it makes sense to place them in the country-specific articles. -- BullWikiWinkle 22:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

True - if there was a book that talked about "Survivor around the world" it would stay here, but I think you're right - the refs should go to the specific country show pages. --MASEM 22:18, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism?

Didn't there use to be a section here on criticism of survivor, and of some of the lawsuits it's faced, complete with cited links and all? What ever happened to it? Did this page get CBSafied by one of their P.R. people? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.8.207.200 (talk) 21:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Moved to Survivor (US TV series) since the criticism was all about the US version. --MASEM 23:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survivor according to Game Theory

Does Survivor qualify as a zero-sum game? 89.139.246.86 (talk) 11:20, 18 May 2008 (UTC)