Talk:Subway (restaurant)

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This article is part of WikiProject Food and Drink, Foodservice Task Force, a task force related to developing restaurant, catering, and food safety resources on Wikipedia.

Subway (restaurant) has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Subway (restaurant) was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Reviewed version: September 22, 2006

Contents 1 (Older discussion) 2 Reinstatment of Subway's inconsistent comparison advertisements 3 More food 4 Sub Club 5 Article edits 6 More stores than McDonald's 7 Subway Location 8 Subway in Finland 9 Too much menu info, not much else. 10 Menu 11 Requested move 11.1 Survey 12 The U-gouge Debate 13 Alternative logos 14 Short independant bio of Subway 15 Failed GA nomination 16 Merge of Sandwich artist 17 Source for revenues 18 Operations 19 Criticism 20 Subway menu 21 Criticism 22 What is Doctor's Associates? 23 Subway In PopCulture as Trivia 24 Subway menu listed for deletion 25 Subway In Popular Culture 26 Fishy Edit 27 Source 28 Myth or Truth??? 29 Israel

[edit] (Older discussion)

Is this an encyclopedia article or an advertisement? I think it should be removed. SR

Looks like an encyclopedia article to me. A bit short, though. Bryan Derksen

"Hey folks, Subway® Restaurant's 7 sandwiches with 6 grams of fat or less have a calorie range of 230-370 and have as little as 3 grams of fat. Choosing one of these subs can save hundreds of calories and at least 21 grams of fat in just one meal! Buy now! Look at Jared, he lost hundreds of pounds, so can you! Come to Subway!" ...and that is advertising! ~ RW

It looks like both. I'd favor editing out details about the store's offerings, and beefing up the corporate info. --67.171.28.197 04:47, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What, aside from being an oxymoron, is "vegetarian meat selection"? Tjwood 22:44, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing. SECProto 00:17, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Most likely referring to the fake meat products vegetarians like to eat - some of them taste pretty good, in my opinion, although perhaps not exactly the same as true meat. My local Subway does not sell them, so I can't confirm that any of them do. Perhaps some confirmation, and rephrasing, is do? RW 02:22, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)

Subway has more outlets than McDonald's? This fact needs to be linked to some document.

I've added subway.com's History of Subway as an external link. Quoting: "It is the world’s largest submarine sandwich chain with more than 21,000 restaurants in 75 countries. As a matter of fact, the SUBWAY® chain operates more units in the US and Canada than McDonald’s® does." RW

Hello everyone, I am new to wikipedia and I know I have done a major edit(and am about to change other things ) to this article and to avoid having anyone think I am being a vandal- I thought I'd list why I've changed some of the things-they are all factual- I am an area supervisor for a large subway franchisee. (1) the headquarters of DAI the parent company is Ft. Lauderdale, FL (for tax purposes). The day to day operations are conducted by Franchise world headquarters in Milford, so I didn't change the box on the right of the page. (2) Someone had put that in the 1990's. Subway overtook Mcdonalds in the US. This was even reported in some newspapers and magazines. This was not true. They became the largest restaurant change in North America in the 1990's. This year they should (or may have already) overtake McDonalds in the US. (3) I put information about the original location and name in the article. Fred DeLuca himself once said he changed the name because when people would call and hear "Pete's Submarine ..." they would think that they were a Seafood Pizza shop. Not sure if he was kidding so left that out of the article. jcam

More edits- (1) moved sentence about Jared to first paragraph to avoid having info of similiar info listed twice separately. (2) removed reference to why a submarine sandwich is called a sub- a first grader could figure that one out. (3) Included information about subway corporate structure. Some cynics have described the structure of subway to a mafia organizaion with DAI being the "godfather"(no I didn't put that in the article !!!) (3) Cleaned up some of the listings of subs (including the reference to 'veggie burger'- don't know why someone listed that since that is an optional product which isn't at even half the Subway's. I left it in their but changed it to Garden Burger/Veggie Max since, I think a 'veggie burger' is something which is meant to taste like a beef hamburger but is not. The Subway's which do serve the Veggie Max serve something which many resemble a rectangular burger, but the intent was not to make it taste like a burger(imho it tastes like stove top stuffing)(4) added reference to toasting which was a major subway decision brought about by competition from Quizno's. -- jcam

SR is 100% correct ... this is clearly an advertisement & the corporation's minnions are very quick to remove or reword any legitimate criticisms so that they look favourable to the company. This makes a joke of any pretences this page has to being an encyclopedia entry so yes it should be removed or at the very least completely & impartially reworked. Ashtonstreet01 (talk) 04:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reinstatment of Subway's inconsistent comparison advertisements

"Furthermore, Subway is inconsistent with their comparison advertisements. As explained previously, Subway never includes cheese, mayo, or other high fat condiments in their sandwiches' nutritional content. But when they compare their sandwiches to that of fast food sandwiches (such as the Big Mac and Whopper) in their advertisements and on their napkins, their nutritional content is taken straight from their competitor's nutrition information, which in the case of McDonald's and Burger King, always includes their standard condiments, including cheese/special sauce (Big Mac) and mayo (Whopper). Thus the comparisons shown on TV are not completely accurate or fair."

Okay, I recently tried to reinstate this paragraph only to get it shot down by (I'm guessing a mod) for apparently not providing sources. Well, the sources would be Subway's/McDonald's/Burger King's online nutritional information along with Subway's napkins (which does a side-by-side-by-side comparison of one of Subway's sandwiches along with the Big Mac and Whopper). But how does one go about citing these sources while at the same time not making the paragraph unneccesairly longer? Also, how does one site a napkin? I believe this is a very important part of the criticism section so I do want to see how to make this bit of info acceptable.76.177.174.82 00:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More food

A way to get them to put more tomatoes, pickles, etc. on your sub is, instead of asking for a sub "with everything," say "with tomatoes... and pickles... and olives... and jalapenos..." etc., etc. adding one ingredient at a time. That works sometimes, because if you say "with everything," they try to be sparing with the ingredients in order to make room for everything, whereas if you ask for one ingredient at a time, they just pile it on there until it can hardly fit. Now there's good eatin'. Nathan256 29 June 2005 15:14 (UTC)

Subway tricks, eh? Well, I'm never stingy with the vegetables. People can say I'm stingy and don't give as much out because of food costs, but people have to remember- I don't give a damn about food costs! Deskana 22:58, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes maybe you're not stingy but perhaps you'd prefer not to have a sub with everything falling out of it in front of your customer.

Just make sure that the 'with everything' doesn't include ghb in your drink

It annoys me when people do that too... because they don't know our managers can give us grief if we put the salads on in the wrong order... seriously! Subway regulations can be stupid. Deskana 19:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

The worst offenders are the Rottinghaus Company, based in La Crosse WI. They own several Subways in the Midwest from Wisconsin to Missouri and Kansas. They used to stick with a "formula" for the amount of veggies and meat that went on the sandwiches and salads. Now due to the rising food costs, they tell their "sandwich artists" to be "con artists" and skimp on everything thay can when making a customer's sandwich. If a sandwich artist actually makes a sandwich according to Subway's product formula, that particular store manager will not make the unrealistic food cost percentage that the owners insist each store makes and gets disciplined. I used to work for these people and I don't know which was worse, The store owners or the customers who caught on to this scheme. I tried several times when I was a store manager to contact the owners or even the district manager about this issue and was told by the district manager that she did not have to communicate with the store managers unless there was a problem with their weekly sales reports and she would not accept phone calls from them. So much for company support. I quit as soon as I heard that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcbadboy (talk • contribs) 08:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sub Club

I changed the "last date" for the Sub Club because the Subways in my market are going until 1/28, but I'm not positive that there aren't any going even later... does anyone have a definitive answer? Brjaga 05:25, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi, do you have a source for the change in the Subway date? Thanks. Tfine80 05:25, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Nothing I can link to, but I work at one in Southeastern PA, and we've had a poster on our wall since mid-October saying we'd redeem them until January 28. Trust me... I've told plenty of customers, so I know I've got the date right. Brjaga 05:27, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Some American (I'm English) customers I served on New Years Eve said that their market had phased them out already when I offered them stamps. We certainly have no plans to phase them out- the owner fitted a new reel in the stamp machine today. Deskana (talk page) 23:37, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm surprised your store is still giving them out to be honest! I'm a Subway franchisee in the North of England, which was one of the first markets in the UK to phase out the stamps. All the communication I've seen from around last May onwards has made it clear that stamps are being 100% phased out in this country with no exceptions. Certainly I've not been offered any at any of the stores I've visited in recent months.

I'd be very surprised if your store continues offering them for much longer, especially considering the replacement swipe card is due to start trialing this year. Khronos 17:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Just been to a store tonight for dinner, and, as far as I know, there are no plans to discontinue the stamps here in Brazil. Psi-Lord 04:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article edits

I made major edits to the article formatting. This is so that hopefully, someday, it will be a featured article! I was looking at the menu on the McDonald's article and I roughly based it off that. I removed the amounts of slices and stuff that is put on as it is relevant only to an employee of the company, really. Any other questions about my edits, feel free to contact me directly if you want. :-) Deskana (talk page) 23:45, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More stores than McDonald's

I think the reason there are physically more Subway stores than McDonalds is that a Subway store simply costs a lot less to build/maintain than a McDonalds.

To really compare the two, and then discuss reasons, sales volume is a better metric. 63.173.203.140 20:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)Paul

A fair comparison I'd say. The store I work in (Stockport, UK) is one of the biggest in the area, and the McDonalds near it has twice as much space on the ground floor alone, ignoring the second floor which is actually even bigger. Technically speaking, the area of their store is 4 times larger and ours (and they have their own car park) out back, including a drivethrough section. Deskana (talk) 20:17, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subway Location

Our city now has two Subways. One just opened up in Wal-Mart. This one served breakfast, while the one in town does not. PrometheusX303 00:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subway in Finland

There are at least four or five Subways in Helsinki alone now, and most likely at least one in all other major cities (Turku, Tampere, Lahti, Jyväskylä, Kuopio, Oulu, Rovaniemi, ...) also. Thanks to Subway, I have all but stopped eating at McDonald's or Hesburger when I eat fast food. The only thing I don't particularly like is how they wrap each straw in a separate plastic container. It's a straw! It's not going to be a major source of contamination! Could the restaurant try to be a little more environmentalist? JIP | Talk 21:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too much menu info, not much else.

Seriously, this article is like 60% menu info. Not like an encylopaedia should be at all. This should be stripped down and more actual corporate, company info should be added - it should probably we entirely re-written - anyone want to do this? Also, the History is terrible - just look at McDonalds to see how it really should be. --Mark 11:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Menu

Moved all the menu stuff into a new article: Subway menu as it's always going to be too listy to look any good inside the main article. -- I@n ≡ talk 14:54, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Good work, just what was needed. --Mark 16:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The U-gouge Debate

I think it should be mentioned somewhere in the article. Some may not remember, but they switched to the new side-style cut back in 2000 or 2001. There has been some criticism regarding this decision, as outlined in this infamous rant. --Dragon695 22:57, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I've seen that done and it seems a pain. Perhaps that's cause I'm used to the hinge cut. Actually, if the hinge cut is done properly, then the sandwich does keep all the stuff in... people don't cut at the right angle, nor do they layer the salads correctly. I've got it down to a fine art, even if I say so myself. --Lord Deskana ^{Dark Lord of the Sith} 22:58, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm moving the hinge-cut criticism here because it is unsourced.

Subway is also criticized for their new "Hinge Cut", a method of cutting the bread in one piece. This is as opposed to the old 2 piece U shaped canyon method of cutting the subs called the U-Gouge.^{[citation needed]}

Prometheus^-X303- 23:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative logos

I have seen some stores with alternative logos than the one currently in the article, I have seen a simular one but with a full black background and different style font, when I make one from a font on my trusted goldenweb.it it will apear here so you can see what it looks like, if you approve I will put it in the article. Lenny 13:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Image:Alternative subway logo.PNG An alternative logo, which I made. Lenny 13:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

That's actually an old logo. They only changed within the last few years so a lot of locations still have it. Kirjtc2 14:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I see, I prefer the old logo out of the two as it looks newer! Lenny 14:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Short independant bio of Subway

Los Angeles Business Journal article on "Restaurant groups" has a short bio of Subway since it had the most locations in LA County: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m5072/is_21_28/ai_n16484655

"Subway has grown in recent years because it doesn't rely on extensive kitchen facilities and is thus able to open stores in smaller storefronts than other fast-food operations"

That's something to add to the article, at least; and theres much more there! JesseW, the juggling janitor 22:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA nomination

I failed this article for two reasons. For one thing, it is underreferenced with only three to speak of. Also, it has a rather extensive bulleted list under the "Pop Culture and Subway" section. Some P. Erson 20:01, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge of Sandwich artist

I feel that the Sandwich artist page should be merged into Subway. It is essentially a job description of a Subway employee, and is not that long. --Mrath 04:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Between Operations and the menu section with a "see below" where the link is now? TransUtopian 23:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree too. Strong merge and cut down. There doesn't seem to be anything special about this position. Could be merged as a single line saying Subway store employees are known by this term Bwithh 03:35, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source for revenues

In the article subways revenues for 2005 was stated as 9.05 billion USD, I couldn't find that anywhere on there website. Is there a source to back that up? Aren't they a privated company and therefore not required to publish financial statement? Pseudoanonymous 02:04, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Operations

I removed the line "Another example is in Mt. St. Helens." as an example of a "non-traditional location". Being in or near a national park alongside other restaurants doesn't seem to be a non-traditional location. And that wording makes it sound as if it is in the actual volcano! :) Somebody may have just wanted to add that there is a Subway near Mount Saint Helens but put it in the wrong spot. 75.33.77.29 10:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

I removed the following because it is not true:

"On their website, Subway.com, the group specifies that a diet of Subway food will incur little or no weight loss." citing a "Health Disclaimer" at subway.com/subwayroot/menunutrition/jared/index.aspx

What it really says is "Your loss, if any, will vary."

75.33.77.29 11:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subway menu

There's no reason to have a specific subarticle devoted to the Subway menu. That article is pretty close to indiscriminate information and should be cut radically. As far as I'm concerned, the current two paragraphs in the main article are all one needs. Pascal.Tesson 17:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I've made some edits to the menu article, but I'm not sure why it exists in the first place. -- Zsero 19:15, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the information is rather indiscriminate and looks haphazardly organized. (There's a morbid fascination in including prices, sheesh.) The Subway B.M.T. at least should be pointed out somehow, as the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Subway's B.M.T. resulted in a merge to Subway menu. Veggie Delite has an article, too. (I won't comment on the notability of that article.) Tinlinkin 01:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

Furthermore, Subway is inconsistent with their comparison advertisements. As explained previously, Subway never includes cheese, mayo, or other high fat condiments in their sandwiches' nutritional content. But when they compare their sandwiches to that of fast food sandwiches (such as the Big Mac and Whopper) in their advertisements and on their napkins, their nutritional content is taken straight from their competitor's nutrition information, which in the case of McDonald's and Burger King, always includes their standard condiments, including cheese (Big Mac) and mayo (Whopper), and their newest menu item, big salty hairyballs.

This may be a confusing to people unfamiliar with Subway since they obviously don't have any 'standard condiments'. I was considering improving it myself but I felt it would just make a bad sentence worse. Can anyone work out how to improve it or should we just delete the whole thing (which is unsourced anyway). Nil Einne 13:18, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is Doctor's Associates?

Doctor's Associates links here. It is not explained beyond "Subway's parent corporation". So what is it? Who started it? Is Doctor's Associates a tax shelter for a certain group of physicians? -71.51.51.120 18:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

No: the 'doctor' in question is Dr. Peter Buck. Tlesher 23:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Believe it or not, I thought Subway did that to mislead customers into thinking that Subway's food was endorsed by doctors (as Subway does try to project a "health food" image).76.177.190.137 15:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subway In PopCulture as Trivia

I disagree with Skeezix1000 characterization fo the rewritten Subway in Popular Culture section as trivia and deserving of that tag. WP:TRIVIA lists inapproriate trivia sections as "lists of isolated facts" that ultimately make the article difficult to read. Certainly, the Subway in Popular Culture section met this requirement until recently. However, the suggested method for handling such trivia sections is by organizing them and incorporating them into the article. It even suggests that trivia can be "grouped into a new section of related material." With the recent revision, I believe this is what has been done. The Subway in Popular Culture section is now in a clear, readable format that does not mar the presentation of the overall article. I do not believe that it any longer meets the definition of a trivia section according to Wikipedia's style manual. I would greatly appreciate any comments or other views. Dekkanar 16:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subway menu listed for deletion

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Subway menu —Moondyne 02:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subway In Popular Culture

I personally feel that this area is a little disorganized and sloppy. Is it possible that someone could re-format into a neater bullet-style format? Kyotodesertfox 18:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)KyotoDesertFox

[edit] Fishy Edit

It was probably an accident, but at 13:22, 21 September 2007 the link to an investigation of subways sub sizes was replaced to point to the subway webpage. I replaced the original link. ~~

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see why an encyclopedia article about a restaurant chain should denote this one particular lawsuit above all others. Seems like someone's just trying to make them look bad. --75.146.61.185 (talk) 00:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Source

Der Spiegel Nr. 11/12.3.2007, „Verdruss im Stullenreich“, P. 88 (SUBWAY FRANCHISE OWNERS UNHAPPY - Sinking Subs in Germany English at Spiegel Online International)--Nemissimo (talk) 16:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Myth or Truth???

I am posting this small article here on Wikipedia in search for the Truth, the question I pose upon you people is:

Do Subway pump the smell of fresh bread out into the streets to entice customers?

Only factual answers please, preferably with evidence to back this up! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belly007 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

No we don't pump our bread smell out the only the reason you do smell that is usally the fan that sucks the hot air out of the store. This smell is only smelt when bread is being baked depending on how busy the subway gets. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.212.143 (talk) 04:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be a terrific idea, though... Proxy User (talk) 23:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Bruegger's does this, they have a small duct that goes from the oven to the front vestibule. --- Jeremy (talk) 01:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Israel

There uses to be subway outlets in Israel (see http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4803/is_199208/ai_n17452287 ) and now there aren't. Anybody kinow the story? Does it belong in this article? Mikedelsol (talk) 06:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)