Talk:Subterranean Homesick Blues
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[edit] rapping
I removed this:
- Furthermore, the song contributed to the development of Rap through its fast, monotone lyrics.
You could say it's similar to what later became known as "rapping", or, more accurately, MCing in hip hop, but this song is no more of an influence than any other monotonically-phrased song pre-1970. For example, the Warner Bros. cartoon short Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs from 1942 is FILLED with what one might term "rapping", but hip-hop's influences are from West Africa, the West Indies (specifically Jamaica), and artists like James Brown and Gil Scott-Heron.
--b. Touch 02:17, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The "rapping" influences sentence was originally added because of the prominent reference found in the (wikipedia) entry on Rapping Origins. The entry was wrong in attributing the influence to "fast, monotone lyrics", but was correct in relating that it DID have an influence. The reason it had a significant influence was its re-popularization of Beat poetry which helped build a foundation for rap:
From Beat poetry entry: "Cassady is most likely the source of 'rapping'.... Bob Dylan, and other popular musicians influenced in the later fifties and sixties by Beat generation poets' and writers' works."
Because of this acknowledged influence, I am adding the following addendum to the article: "Furthermore, by reviving beat poetry through music, Dylan's song contributed to the development of Rap." --Datapharmer
Must agree with b. Touch, and add that, whether or not "Subterranean Homesick Blues" made pop music safe for beat poetry, the line doesn't run that way. The song (whose lyrical rhythms are strictly Chuck Berry's) is rappable (as Aerosmith's "Walk This Way" was for Run DMC), but only coincidentally; it's a matter of common roots. (If anything, rap has more in common with Berry, who wrote about everyday things, than with Dylan's amphetamine symbolist poetry.) And the Cassady claim is even more fantastic. The relationship is coincidental, and if mentioned at all should be noted as such.--Adoorajar 28 June 2005 22:21 (UTC)
And checking the "Rapping Origins" entry, it's not even stated there that the song influenced rap; it's noted, almost parenthetically, as a variant of talking blues -- a predecessor, but not an influence. (You might as well say that rap was influenced by Woody Guthrie.)--Adoorajar 28 June 2005 22:32 (UTC)
Okay, I will remove the sentence. There seems to be enough dissent to take it out. --Datapharmer June 28
[edit] Mistake in last verse claim
I reverted the change that noted a mistake in the last verse (author claimed that Dylan came in too late). I could find no evidence of this by listening to the song (highway 61 revisited version), and furthermore I could find absolutely no other written or internet sources for the claim. Additionally, the claim was musically inaccurate as the A7 chord would be an A-minor if he were to come in late. Perhaps the author mistook the changing number of lyrical lines in each verse for Dylan coming in late?
If someone can provide evidence for this claim feel free to note a source and add the information back into the article. --Datapharmer
[edit] England Tour of 1965
I could find no evidence that the England Tour in 1965 was not his first tour of england. If there is evidence to the contrary please leave a reference and feel free to make the needed corrections. --Datapharmer
[edit] Lennon Sentence Removal
In reference to removal of the following sentence from 'Influence' Section:
"It is even reported that John Lennon was so amazed after hearing Dylan's song that he wondered how he could ever compete."
I have searched several times for any possible sources for this information to no avail. If someone can find anything that seems to validate this statement, please cite the source and add the sentence back in. I was a little reluctant to remove it because it has been there fore some time, but I would like this article to be as accurate as possible.
Update: I have traced back the history of this sentence to the following entry: 05:19, 7 Mar 2005 64.175.232.121
this IP address is not responsible for any other contributions and with no other way to verify the accuracy of the information I feel very comfortable removing the sentence at this point. --Datapharmer
[edit] Acoustic version
There was an acoustic version on the bootleg series 1-3 which was kind of interesting. I can't recall which way round it is but one version says "if you don't wanna be a bum, you'd better chew gum" and the other says "you'd better not". Maybe that's a little trivial... but the existence of the other mainstream-released version might be worth mentioning at least. Does he ever play it live? I don't think I've seen it on any live albums, but my knowledge is limited. Mattley 22:19, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "First Rap Song"
I reverted to the edit before the addition of "This was the first rap song". The information provided had no source. Also, based on other discussions about this article, not only is it being the first rap song questionable, but the song's influence on rap is even in dispute (most comments suggest) that it was not of any particularly importance in the development of rap. Datapharmer 16:16, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Music Videos"
There are probably quite a lot of videos that allude to the SHB clip. A recent and popular example is Fit But You Know It by The Streets.
[edit] Bill Hicks
I'm going to change the section about Bill Hicks to say that he "sometimes used" the song as an intro, since Bill Hicks is dead. Andrew123 21:25, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] chairman mao
71.192.174.166 added: "Other references were made to the communist movement of Chairman Mao.[you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows] was based on Mao's famous "east wind west wind" speech."
I cannot find any source for this information. Since it is not referenced and I can't find a source I have removed it. If someone else can find a legitimate source for this feel free to add it back in along with the appropriate reference. Datapharmer 02:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cue Cards
I removed the list of cue cards because it formed a list and did not seem to be in a format that fit the rest of the article. I think it may be a good list to create, and would be better linked to from this article. Again, I don't want to discount the work done to make the list, but it just seemed innapproppriate in the current location.
Below is the list as it originally appeared. Datapharmer 13:11, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Here is a list of cue cards used in the video:
- Verse 1
- Basement
- Medicine
- Pavement
- Government
- Trench Coat
- Laid Off
- Bad Cough
- Paid Off
- Kid
- Did
- When
- Again
- Alley Way
- New Friend
- Coonskin Cap
- Pig Pen
- 20 Dollar Bills
- Ten
- Verse 2
- Fleet Foot
- Black Soot
- Heat Put
- Bed, But
- Anyway
- Many Say
- Must Bust
- District Attorney
- Look Out!
- It Don’t Matter
- Tip Toes
- No Dose
- Those
- Fire Hose
- Clean Nose
- Plain Clothes
- Wind Blows
- Verse 3
- Get Well
- It’s Hard
- Write Braille
- Get Jailed
- Fail
- Watch It!
- Here They Come!
- Users
- Cheaters
- Theaters
- Whirlpool
- New Fool
- Leaders???
- Pawking Metaws
- Verse 4
- Get Born
- Short Pants-Romance
- Get Blessed
- Suckcess
- Please Her, Please Him
- Don’t Lift
- Dayshift
- Dig Yourself
- Hid
- Man Whole
- Scandals
- Bum
- Chew Gum, No
- The Vandals Took All The Handles
- What??
Sorted. Levi allemany 10:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] javascript:insertTags('\'\,'\'\,'Italic text');Subterranean Death Ride Blues
I removed:
"Subterranean Death Ride Blues" is the b-side of The Grifters 1996 7" single, "Slipknot". The song appeared again the same year on Grifter David Shouse's (as Those Bastard Souls) album " 21st Century Chemical" as "Subterranean Death Ride Blues, Pt. 2".
Other than sharing the words "Subterranean" and "Blues" I was not able to find any information about this particular track. Although the name be influenced by the title "Subterranean Homesick Blues", it does not seem particularly significant. If I am mistaken or someone can provide more information on this track it can be added back in, but at this time I feel the other entries are more significant.
Datapharmer 02:39, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] REM and "End of the World"
I have heard that SHB was a direct inspiration for the REM song "End of the World as we know it". Haven't been to find a confirmation of this fact. (the song is obviously similar in style, but what I mean is that the REM song was intentionally written to be REM's "subterranean homesick blues"). Will keep looking... Manning
[edit] New Picture
Someone may want to do a better one than I have, but I think this works in principle, doesn't it? Levi allemany 10:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Walkmen Reference
I removed the reference to the indie-rock group the walkmen as it is not needed to make the point. If we were to list all thr groups that have covered this song the article would become a list... which brings me to a point: maybe there should be a list of bands who have covered this song. I'm too busy at the moment, but if no one gets around to it, I will eventually. Datapharmer 03:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] YouTube
YouTube
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. ---J.S (t|c) 15:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I have removed all content that used youtube as a source. It seems that the entries sourcing youtube were relatively insignificant and had no other sources. Datapharmer 03:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Additional Influence
A punk rock band from Houston called 30 Foot Fall has a song titled "Subhumanitarian Homewrecked Blues" on their 3rd album entitled Ever Revolving, Never Evolving. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.120.192.169 (talk) 09:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Right...
right...so i was skimming through the article and noticed that there was no reference to the Chili Pepper's cover version on thier third album, Uplift Mofo Party Plan, under the influences secton. i think a cover warrants a mention on this page and yeah.... so someone should add...or something....whatever —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.213.142.171 (talk) 20:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Les yeux de Laure"
Perhaps someone with a better grasp of French than I have can improve the point about this homage. It's clearly not an "exact replica" since he's not dressed like Dylan. And the cue cards digress into an explanation of why he made the video. I think they say that his music label won't pay him to make videos so he stole this idea from Dylan and made it in an hour. Then they go back to the lyrics. --Tysto (talk) 02:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
