Talk:String Quartet No. 11 (Beethoven)

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[edit] References, and the Scherzo

First- the references section needs updating, but someone who knows the books, knows what editions were used (first? third?... edition of the Kerman? etc....) would need to do that...

Will have to add mention of some interesting features of the quartet. Noticeably lacking even in the sketchy description of the inner movements: any mention at all of the transition between the second and third movement, which gives the opening of the latter movement its characteristic opening chord progression. (And such chord progressions and motives, not just key relationships, help make this piece "go", as they do many others.)

Also: the keys of the trios in the scherzo-like movement, the second of them in G♭ major, for instance.

The movement may well be a scherzo; it shares a form with that of many Beethoven scherzos - those of symphonies 4 and 7, string quartets 10, 12 and 14, etc. - generally something like A - B - A (or A') - B' - A'' - coda, coda often beginning the same as B.

And there is something rondo-ish about that, though not exactly. As to whether or not it's a march and trio- whether to call the main section a march isn't a matter of form but of rhythm, character and other qualities. (Hrm. Well, Liszt's Scherzo and March are two pieces in a row, not the same in one, to my knowledge.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 13:13, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The Schoenberg essay - I had misplaced this - in which he points out the (possibly unconscious) connective use of one or another form of D♭-C-D-natural throughout the first movement is Brahms the Progressive (possibly the best-known of the essays in Style and Idea?), specifically pages 423-4 of the 1984 first paperback edition. (Originally published by Faber and Faber limited in 1975, and in the US by St. Martin's Press in the same year.)

Schoenberg, Arnold ed. (by) Stein, Leonard: Style and Idea. University of California Press: 1984 (first paperback edition, revised). ISBN 0-520-05294-3 (pbk). Schissel | Sound the Note! 14:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)