Talk:Stefan Nemanja

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	Stefan Nemanja is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
July 4, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted

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[edit] 2004

This is really a stub, there should be much more to be said about the founder of the medieval Serbian state. I read parts of http://www.magma.ca/~rendic/chapter5.htm and it includes a section "Stefan Nemanja creates an independent Serbian state" which has numerous footnote references could be easily used to fill up this article. --Joy [shallot] 09:41, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It has been said in the article that his name Stefan means "crowned" but it is not mentioned in what language. It is not Serbian definitely but I think it came from Hungarian which were very strong in that time in Serbia and had grate influence —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shukalo83 (talk • contribs) 23:23, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On images

Someone should place this image into the article as soon as he finds the time for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PaxEquilibrium (talk • contribs) 16:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language

Stop adding the Montenegrin language.

1) Constitution of Montenegro in its article 9 says that official language in Montenegro is Serbian. At the moment Montenegrin government has its site in 'Montenegrin' but that is understandable in the situation, and may as well be changed after the next elections, for example. That's too shakey to be taken for granted.

2) None of the major cultural institutions adopted Montenegrin language (check sites of the Academy and University of Montenegro, with specific section for Serbian language, not Montenegrin). Simply because Montenegrin language is stil in the proces of being invented by 10 people around Academy of Duklja for their own private purposes.

3) Studens and pupils are not taught Montenegrin in schools. They did learn Serbian until last year, when it was switched to 'mother tongue' (?) marking one name for all the Montenegrin, Serbian, Croatian, Muslim and Bosniak students. And this also can be changed after the elections, so it doesn't hold the water as a fact taken seriously.

For all this above, all your changes in this direction are nothing more but an obvious and pathetic attempt at provocation. I understand that as an Albanian you dislike Serbs by default, but as long as the standards above are not fulfilled, I will keep correcting the mess you are deliberatly making in this artice. PajaBG 18:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carski san

Nemanja's title " Carski san " is not corectly translated in english . " San " here means ranc . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.91.1.43 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] William of Tyre?

Concerning the following sentence from the current article:

Wilhelm of Tyre, a member of this Saxon force wrote about the Serbs as being an uneducated people, without any discipline, resident to hills and forests, unskilled with agriculture. They're rich with small and large flocks of cattle, milk, honey and wask.

This ought to be a reference to the historian William of Tyre, surely: does anyone know? And what's wask? Andrew Dalby 15:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what wask is but William wasn't a Saxon and was not a member of that expedition. He probably heard about it from Byzantine sources. Adam Bishop 05:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...actually, I can't find this in William of Tyre at all. Perhaps someone confused him with another William? It should be removed unless someone can give a better reference. Adam Bishop 23:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. I will reinstate the original Wilhelm of Tyre (though I have no idea whether such a person existed) and add a fact template. At least the wask has now become wax, which makes sense. Andrew Dalby 08:31, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Confirmed. That's the same William of Tyre. It was just a change in translation. Additionally, "wask" is "wax". HolyRomanEmperor 15:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Confirmed where? We weren't disputing that "Wilhelm" means "William". Did you find the quote in William of Tyre? If so, where? Adam Bishop 20:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, the citation is in almost every Yugoslav book which deals with Stephen Nemanya. However, I have no confirmation that that's the very same William of Tyre aside from - where there two famous Williams of Tyre that were historians? At the sources part, to the bottom, Ćorović, Vladimir (2005). ИЛУСТРОВАНА ИСТОРИЈА СРБА, Book II, Politika. can be seen, for instance. That's the "History of the Serbs". a view in the Serbian language is available at the external links: History of the Serbs - Third Period - Stephen Nemanya. Other example is the Holy bloodline of Stefan Nemanja by Zeljko Fajfric, as well in Serbo-Croatian. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no other historian named William of Tyre...is it possible that Viljem Tirski means something else? (I know no Serbo-Croatian.) I see that Corovic didn't say where it is from either. If you have access to all the other books about Nemanja, can you see if any of them give a real reference? Adam Bishop 20:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Aha...it's book 20, chapter 4. I don't know why I couldn't find that in the English translation, but it's in the Latin. I think I was confused by the way it is presented here; it is not connected to the Saxons. William was part of an embassy to Constantinople, while the emperor was away fighting a Serbian revolt. Adam Bishop 20:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

"Viljem Tirski" cannot mean anything else in Serbian (Serbo-Croatian). Wait a minute - did you just confirm that you found the exact citation in Latin? --HolyRomanEmperor 14:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, here: Est autem populus incultus, absque disciplina, montium et silvarum habitator, agriculturae ignarus: gregibus et armentis copiosi, lacte, caseo, butyro, carnibus, melle et cera uberius abundantes. I'll have to look at the English again to be more certain, but that chapter is not connected to the Saxon expedition. Adam Bishop 18:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to all. I have revised the translation and removed the mistaken statement that William took part in the expedition (he learned about the Serbs because he was in Constantinople in 1179). Andrew Dalby 18:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Glad we could clear this out - I'm going to re-read the article and (preferably) expand it with info that I missed. I invite you to observe my editing and contribute yourselves; I feel that this article is getting closer and closer to a Featured article status. --HolyRomanEmperor 16:41, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

wask VOSAK in serbian means wax;) maybe some old german form of wax??

The man speaks of Sorbs(German Serbs also called "wends") inhabiting Bohemia and not of Serbs living in the Balkan Region. see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs

[edit] disambig

Something more should be done to disambiguate between this man and St. Simeon of stylites. The two names are very similar 63.229.221.138 03:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove the drawing

The drawing is pretty lame and needless in an encyclopedic article. I suggest its removal. --PaxEquilibrium 22:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Who translated Nemanja name in the article?! It is known that the name means The One Who Does not Have in Serbian. Tzuppy 15:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] living decendents of stefan nemanja

i have heard of direct decendents of this family living today. how come there is nothing about them? i have looked everywhere and the web sites that i have come across say there are none that are living today. it sounds hocas pocas to me! how come nobody is looking into this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.148.101.162 (talk) 04:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)