Talk:Shakespeare's religion

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A fact from Shakespeare's religion appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 10 June 2007.

Contents 1 DYK? 2 "Infected" with the Atheism? 3 Title change? 4 Fixing note links 5 S's Schooling 6 S's family

[edit] DYK?

Someone familiar with the subject should submit this as a Did you know article. I think it would easily make the main page. Wrad 18:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and did it. Wrad 01:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Infected" with the Atheism?

Shouldn't it be "affected"?

Given the context, I'm pretty sure it's right, though I don't have the source. It is from a Catholic work, and the wording surrounding it seems to support "infected" over "affected". Wrad 03:10, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

It's available online [1]: "infected" it is! In this case, however, it's a secondary source: they are presenting it as the view of Richard Simpson, a shakespearean scholar of the nineteenth century. The encyclopaedia's own view is that WS thought "sympathetically and even tenderly of the creed in which his father and mother had been brought up". --Old Moonraker 05:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

To this non-scholarly reader Shakespeare's work is remarkable for its lack of overt religious feeling. Proponents of the contrary have to scratch hard to find any grist for their particular mills. Xxanthippe 22:55, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

This is an excellent observation. Several scholars have actually pointed this out as a possible reason of why his reputation is so great. Maybe we could add this to the article. Wrad 23:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title change?

This article does not seem to be about "Shakespeare's Religion", but rather "Shakespeare's Supposed Catholicism". I suggest that it is either re-titled to reflect the sole bent of the article, or the article be expanded to include other speculations about Shakespeare's religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Clotten 20:16, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that may be a little too specific of a Title. Most scholars agree that there is more evidence for Catholicism than for anything else, but to change the article's name just doesn't seem beneficiary. What would be the point? This article does have a few other claims in it, besides Catholicism. I honestly don't know of any others theories. If you'd like, just put a move template up and we'll get some editors who know more about the subject to discuss this... Wrad 20:24, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

England was resolutely Protestant in Shakespeare's time. There is only one issue to discuss: was he Protestant (as he would have appeared publicly) or was he a recusant Catholic? "Shakespeare's religion" is a neat NPOV title for that discussion, though. "Shakespeare's Supposed Catholicism" is thoroughly POV. AndyJones 21:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Cloten seems to be arguing, though, that this article is already POV in favor of Catholicism. Is this the case? If so, how do we fix it? Wrad 21:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not keen to take this job on, but at a quick glance I'd say:

1. Purge the article of redundancy/repetition,
2. Vigorously cull all the weasels,
3. Reduce the discussion of C Asquith and check out the critical response (if any) to her work.
4. Look at Michael Wood, who assesses the Catholic evidence in "In Search of Shakespeare". AndyJones 21:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

England was not resolutely Protestant in Shakespeare's time and recent scholarship is making that more and more apparent. Further, the region where he was raised was a hotbed of the Old Faith. Certainly, the views of those scholars who maintain he was not Catholic should be represented, but to suggest that his Anglicanism is presumed is the now recognized erroneous assumption of a later England which had become much more stably Protestant.Mamalujo 22:27, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Leave the title as is. Yes, the article currently focuses too much on the Shakespeare's alleged Catholicism, but that is a short-coming of the article, not the subject or title. If more info on this subject was added, the article wouldn't feel so one-sided.--Alabamaboy 23:50, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

No change: when the balance of the article is improved, along the lines indicated above, the suggested change will become redundant. --Old Moonraker 06:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I added the article to wikiproject Anglicanism in the hopes that somebody will come down here and add something. I do not have the knowledge or the desire to do the research myself. -- SECisek 04:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fixing note links

I've added some detail to the notes, with links on the C. Asquith footnote to the Google sample chapters of her book, and with a wiki link to her Wiki site.--Ajschorschiii 05:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] S's Schooling

I've added some more specifics from Ackroyd on the close association of S's teachers and a fellow pupil with Catholicism. --Ajschorschiii 06:24, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] S's family

I've made a change to the sentence on the testament found in home of WS's father, to reflect the 20th century evidence definitively linking the testament's reported wording to a document composed by Charles Borromeo. The sentence I replaced did not reflect the findings of 20th century scholarship. --Ajschorschiii 03:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)