Talk:Segway PT

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Segway PT article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability
Archives: 1

Archives

/Archive 1: Feb 2002 - Dec 2006

Contents 1 Walking? 2 Patent Information 3 Heavy trucks 4 Bans 5 Headline text 6 Headline text 7 Needs citations 8 Speed Claims 9 Release 10 Segway Inspired Vehicles 11 "True" unveiling 12 Price? 13 American English? 14 battery software 15 introduction 16 Amazon tie-up 17 No pre-release publicity mention? 18 Segway monorail 19 Segway Incorporated 20 Deaths and Injuries Due to the Device 21 Does anyone know of a similar less expensive product? 22 Why no criticism? 23 Criticism" or "Controversy" section(s) be merged into other sections 24 References In Pop Culture 25 Television Appearances 26 A Third Wheel 27 Segway Home Page?

[edit] Walking?

Does anyone know if there has been some research into the use of the segway by obese people? Is the added mass not extra dangerous? Maybe they should walk... (just kidding) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.53.253.50 (talk) 10:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Patent Information

I was wondering if someone knowledgeable of the subject could provide some information regarding patents under the technology section.

[edit] Heavy trucks

When the postal workers were polled on whether they preferred Segway to a heavy truck, how many were asked about other choices, such as a light truck? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jim.henderson (talk • contribs) 19:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

Excellent. So, it wasn't a large ten ton truck but a small standard Post Office truck. Now the question is, who runs 25 MPH / 40 KmPH? Not average people, as claimed in the preamble, nor Segway, I think. Jim.henderson 16:52, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bans

Removed New York State ban information. Claims about Segways and especially bicycles proven false with search of NYS law. You may reference the applicable laws regarding bicycles here. Added fact tags for uncited ban claims. Vassyana 10:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

==

[edit] Headline text

==

[edit] Headline text

See [1] for the New York Segway use ban. As for bicycles, you are quite right; they are not banned. Conservatives (including the owners of the site) have been trying to ban sale of Segways, to back up the use ban. Liberals have been trying to relax or end the use ban. Neither effort has thus far succeeded, so for now, you can buy a Segway but can only use it on private premises. Jim.henderson 15:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

First, that is a law specific to New York City not to New York State as you restored it. Please provide citation from the State that such devices are illegal off private property in the State if you wish to assert it is so. (Please reference "burden of proof" in the Wikipedia references standards.) Also, I am vastly disappointed in your decision to remove the fact tags and unsourced tag without discussion or reason. I am restoring them. If you wish them to be removed, please discuss it first. This article is filled with factoids and numbers lacking proper citation. Additionally, the Introduction passed by NYC specifically excludes Segways by definition in the passed law. "For the purposes of this section, the term motorized scooter shall not include wheelchairs or other mobility aids designed for use by disabled persons, electric powered devices not capable of exceeding fifteen miles per hour or 'electric personal assistive mobility devices' defined as self-balancing, two non-tandem wheeled devices designed to transport one person by means of an electric propulsion system." As such, I am removing the material I previous removed backed by this clear reference. In the future, please discuss reverts (or at least provide some explanation in the edit summary) and be sure to verify references to public law. Vassyana 01:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Didn't read the link before deleting it, eh? Fine; here's a cut and paste:

Segway is gyroscope-stabilized, meaning it remains upright even at a complete stop, Mr. Dailida said.

Like most states, New York defines the Segway HT as a motor vehicle, meaning it is automatically banned from sidewalks. But it doesn't fit the state Vehicle & Traffic Law's requirements for vehicles that may operate on public streets and highways, said a spokesman for the Department of Motor Vehicles, Matthew Burns. The device falls into the category of vehicles, such as motorized skateboards, that are legal to drive only on private property, he said.

Neither the DMV nor the governor has taken a position on whether state law should accommodate the devices, officials said.

Or, to summarize, NYC is the part of NYS in which the company is most interested, but State law is what has to be changed to permit Segway on public streets or sidewalks. To be allowed on sidewalks, it must be removed from the class of motor vehicles. To be allowed in streets, it must be included either in a class of vehicle that needs no permit (like bicycles) or in a class that can get a permit (such as motorcycles). As of now, it is effectively banned. The one bright spot is, politicians and cops aren't much interested in the law in this matter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jim.henderson (talk • contribs) 02:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

Please provide a reference from New York State law which provides a definition which includes Segways as prohibited vehicles. As I had mentioned, if you wish to assert this, all I want is a proper reference. I would additionally point out that the reference you provided above is directly about the NYC law I cited above. Also, why did you removed the unreferenced and fact tags without discussion? Vassyana 02:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I did some further research. They do seem to be prohibited for sidewalk use, except in NYC. (NYC is quite literally in many instances akin to another state often with differing legalities than New York State. It is a complicated relationship and the subject of entire law classes unto itself.) Their legally on public roads seems to be a matter of local governance, as the state does not provide for their legality one way or the other. Additionally, they are specifically exempt from classification as motor vehicles if operated by a person with disability. The standard of disability for this section is considerably looser than for example being issued disabled tags from the DMV, requiring only a doctor's note asserting some form of disability or impairment which an electric motorized device would assist or alleviate. I will continue researching the matter until I am satisfied I have found accurate clear information covering the subject at hand. Vassyana 03:33, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Needs citations

Many claims, numbers and "facts" without citations fill this article. References need to be provided and properly cited, as per Wikipedia standards. Please do not remove this tag without discussion and consensus. Vassyana 01:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speed Claims

I don't understand why people keep removing the speed claims on occasion based on running speed. The article is not saying people run that fast, but rather that's how fast a Segway goes. Vassyana 20:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Segway LLC programatically limits their machine to a top speed of 12.5 mph. There are many inquiries by Segway owners and the curious on means to defeat this limit. To date, there does not appear to be a way for consumers to defeat the limit except by replacing the stock wheels with a larger diameter wheel to gain mechanical speed advantage. Toybuilder 8:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Release

Someone commented an entire year ago that this article doesn't convey the media circus that attended the Segway's release, and the subsequent enormous letdown. I know it may seem POV to talk about this, but let's be honest, the unfavorable circumstance release is a significant part of the thing's history, and it can certainly be sourced.-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 03:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I second this. I just glanced through the article, and it has the distinct reek of having been sanitized, carefully avoiding any mention of the fact that this was pushed as the most amazing thing since bagged rice, the ensuing media cricus, and the total and complete flop that it represented. This thing mopped up vast wodges of money to devlop, and subsequently crashed and burned as a commercial product. This article currently reads like a description of an alternate universe. Here in my universe, the Segway is a borderline by-word for an overhyped product that fails miserably. Dxco 17:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Segway Inspired Vehicles

Should there be mention of Segway inspired designs where the operator is standing up? There is the Q Electric Chariot which appears to be well known; I also personally have seen a much larger similar "standing scooter" at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX). Toybuilder 20:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "True" unveiling

Although the segway got its official (fan-fare) public unveiling in 2001, it was first offered to a public audience, albeit limited, at the closing ceremonies of the 2000 FIRST robotics National Championship at Epcot Center, Walt Disney World, Orlando, FL. Dean Kamen and Woody Flowers appeared on the vehicle at the beginning of the festivities. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.192.175.72 (talk) 06:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Price?

There is currently no mention of pricing of the units in this article. I couldn't find anything on the comany website, but perhaps someone knows of a source which might have this information? Dansiman 05:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I seem to remember reading that the Segway would be sold for around $2500, but a few select units would be available as part of an early release program for $5,000. The Segway has been out for several years now and it's still selling at around $5,000. What happened? Why is it still so expensive? 71.165.163.42 05:38, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American English?

Why only American English? Isn't it a homophone in all English accents/dialects (unless one specifically 'Italianifies' ones pronunciation of 'segue')? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.111.220.6 (talk) 00:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Surely it's not a homophone at all. A homophone is a word that sounds the same but has a different meaning. Segue and Segway are pronounced differently as far as I can work out, unless it's a silent 'way.' If anything, surely it's a portmanteau of Segue and Way (as in direction, route.) Tony2Times 21:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

This American pronounced "segue" as "segway" long before Kamen spun his first gyroscope. For me, at least, they're as homophonic as can be. - DavidWBrooks 21:57, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] battery software

The article says: "In September 2003 the Segway HT was recalled to patch its software to version 12.0, which negated the risk that a rider may completely drain the battery." Perhaps I'm being dense, but how is this possible, excepting an infinite battery? Some clarification is probably in order. Mycroft7 02:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Good catch! It's not possible. The software patch negated the risk that a rider would completely drain the battery while riding, leading to a dangerous situation where the gyroscopes suddenly lost power and stopped balancing the rider. With the patch, the Segway automatically slows down and allows a user to dismount safely. I'll update it.  :-) Ztrawhcs 18:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

After a string of edits (sorry about that) I have tried to further clarify the low battery power (vs energy) nature of the problem and the software patch to fix it.JDHeinzmann 18:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this isn't related, but I believe that in the case of rechargable batteries, if they become completely drained, they can't be recharged again, and that devices that use rechargable batteries usually stop functioning before the battery gets down to this point, both to prevent this from happening, and because at such low levels the device can't do what was intended anyway. For example, your cellphone will eventually turn itself off when it's battery gets too low, and yet you can turn it on again (it will turn off once again as soon as it reads the battery's meter). If you keep doing this the battery will get down to the point where the phone can't even turn on, but unless you do something like hold the power button continuously, you won't completely drain it. Perhaps this is what is referred to in the Segway? Dansiman (talk|Contribs) 20:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] introduction

The quote "...walking is a remnant of the Dark Ages, an unpleasant time-waster that technology needs to eradicate" looks as if it were uttered by the inventor himself when it is actually a direct quote from the Salon article's editorializing. I doubt Kaymen has ever said anything around those lines, POV etc etc

Kamen definitely said that -- it was one of his traditionally exuberant off-the-cuff remarks made to the press -- one of many which helped build the hype (and subsequent letdown) to unheard of levels. Ztrawhcs 18:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amazon tie-up

I recall Amazon announcing with much ballyhoo that they had an exclusive distribution deal on the segway in 2002. Amazon appears not to sell the Segway at all now. It would be interesting and germane to know the circumstances in which the distribution deal was signed and then terminated, if anyone knows? ElectricRay 22:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Early on Amazon.com was the only way to buy a Segway, but today it seems you can only get them through authorized local dealers. Perhaps I (or some other enterprising individual) can find some articles explaining this... Ztrawhcs 18:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No pre-release publicity mention?

One of the most notable things about the Segway is all the hype, or, to be more NPOV about it, pre-release publicity about it, and its relatively slow adoption relative to projections. In fact, there's a good chance that's what will be most notable about it years down the line. I'm sure there's some way to work an NPOV discussion of that into the article? -- ToastyKen 21:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the first part of your statement -- there was a lot of pre-release publicity, and slow adoption since. The second part of your statement -- that the rampant hype will be its most notable legacy -- is pure speculation. But yes, there is likely a way to add the first part in an NPOV manner. Go for it! Ztrawhcs 20:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

It is purely speculation but what I personally remember segway for is the massive hype and how overblown it was. For me, and many other people, that will always be part of the identity of the segway. I think that this article definitely needs a section on how hyped segway was prior to its revelation.

[edit] Segway monorail

Segway scooters stay upright by intermittent momentary actuation of electric motors fixed to flywheels, the divergence from vertical being detected by gyroscopes. It is possible to use such reaction wheels to build a monorail vehicle, the reaction wheels having their axes in line with the roll axis of the vehicle, to keep the vehicle upright.

Reaction wheels have long been used to change the orientation of satellites, but Segway has introduced the idea to transport on Earth.

Monorails are cheaper to build than conventional railways. A monorail need weigh no more than a conventional rail vehicle, because the bogeys have only one wheel. This reduction in weight offsets the weight of the reaction wheels and electric motors.

David Erskine

58.168.40.76 06:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea what you are saying. Why would anyone want an upright, self-balancing train? 71.37.51.215 (talk) 00:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Gyro monorail. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 19:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Segway Incorporated

there is no article on the company, which in my opinion is pretty remiss. while the company is largely notable for the segway pt device, there is notable information surrounding the company that does not fall properly under either the inventor or the device.

[edit] Deaths and Injuries Due to the Device

While there are citations in the "bans and restrictions" section made by organizations that do not support segway use in walking areas that mention injuries and deaths, there is no information in the entire article either confirming or denying the existence of any injuries or deaths.

It just says people could get injured, not people did get injured. 71.37.51.215 (talk) 00:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Does anyone know of a similar less expensive product?

I thought of buying this for my sister who have some problem in walking but it seems so expensive just becuase it uses computer to keep balance instead of a simple 3rd weel! If any one knows about other more reasonable models which suit for disable people it would be nice to mention them here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.165.61.183 (talk) 22:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why no criticism?

This article is more or less an advertisement for the product. I took part in a tour of Barcelona by Segway in March 2007, lasting several hours. The Segway seems to me to be an overengineered less good version of the bicycle. Unlike the bicycle it is very expensive, can't cope with kerbs (US English: curbs) and doesn't provide a seat, making it very tiring if ridden for long periods. It's also a flop, having completely failed to take off as a product. APW

I agree with you on the need for some cited criticism. I also find this quote from the article a little odd: "The Segway generally does not fall into the category of exempt devices such as powered wheelchairs, but is more of a vehicle somewhere between a bicycle and motor scooter." It is considerably less versatile than a bicycle and definitely slower (20 km/h is nowhere near the speed a reasonably fit cyclist can achieve over moderate distances). This wording suggests that it is "more" of a vehicle than the bicycle. Tomasrojo 15:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. In fact, I recall an article that the Segway has done very poorly compared to what the manufacturers expected. It wasn't exactly the revolution they wanted. I'll see if I can dig it out.. --86.151.65.166 (talk) 00:28, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree as well, I remember that when the Segway came out there were News articles claiming that it would be revolutionizing, the Army would use it, sales would enormous, walking would become obsolete and so on. Now after 3 years only 25,000 have been sold. I mean, we need a criticism section. ⇨ EconomistBR ⇦ Talk 03:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism" or "Controversy" section(s) be merged into other sections

I wouldn't mind the merger for as long as no information was lost in the process. The information is unbiased, sourced from CNN, Forbes and USAToday and no adjectives are used. Therefore I see no reason for removig any information. ⇨ EconomistBR ⇦ Talk 20:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References In Pop Culture

I wonder why the South Park episode "The Entity" is not listed here as that ep was in part a parody of the Segway. Look it up here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Entity_%28South_Park%29

Can we add this under pop culture references??? 76.211.96.9 (talk) 03:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Television Appearances

I have added the fact that Adam Savage has been seen with a Segway on Mythbusters but it needs a little clean-up and referencing.

The other off the top of my head reference I can remember is an episode of Family Guy where Peter sells his daughter to Mort Goldman because of a pharmacy debt. When Peter was concocting a plan to get Mort's son to break the contract they drew up, Peter advertises an X-Men convention, at which Mort's son rides up on a Segway and comments "there is usually Segway parking at these conventions". Please research this and add.

BH - March 09, '08

I would like to remove it - in fact, the whole references in pop culture section. I don't think the Segway is obscure enough to document each time it shows up in some TV show. (I'm often a fan of pop-cutlure sections, but I think this one is unnecessary) - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you, DavidWBrooks. IMO that section should be removed. It's a pointless exercise to list every single TV appearance of the Segway. It's a pointless exercise because it doesn't increase the understanding of the readers about the Segway.

"Peter of Family Guy used a Segway"??!!! So? Why was that mentioned?

Such a reference should have no place in an Encyclopedia, it could have a place at a Segway fan-site, but not here. ⇨ EconomistBR ⇦ Talk 17:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I think there are times when such sections are legitimate (even in an Encyclopedia with a capital E!) - when they are needed to demonstrate the extent that a concept has pervaded society, which might not be obvious otherwise. I just don't think that's necessary for the Segway. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 18:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Clearly a show like Family Guy DOES house public opinions of events people and items, albeit extremely biased it does go to explain that the Segway is a reference to the overeducated(who am I trying to convince in a PC fashion here? They're referencing nerds, plainly put). Though the view provided by the show Family Guy making a Segway sound like an infamous nerd cult obsession isn't entirely public opinion or true, it does actually provide their perception on the product that it is only and truly their own.

Speaking of public view and gaining understanding, even the television show of "Stroker and Hoop" had a Christmas episode where in the beginning the mall cop rode up on a Segway. I thought to add that seeing so many police officer on Segway pictures.

My point is that what inspires them to research Segways, and seeing how rare they are, ways of even seeing them could include the media and fashion in which they are used and viewed, police or nerd reference alike. Statement having been made, I never was aware of a Segway until I saw Adam Savage of Mythbusters using his and then thereafter, prompting me to research the device.

BH - March 11, '08, 5:34 AM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.153.255.178 (talk) 10:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I took it out. Any complaints? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 23:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Third Wheel

I noticed a controvertial point coming up: that a cheaper Segway could be made by using a third wheel.

For example, some recent edits:

"The Segway has also come under criticism due to the fact that its electronics and balancing mechanisms could be made obsolete simply by adding a third wheel in front. Some critics have suggested that this is the primary reason for its lower-than-expected sales."

"it seems so expensive just becuase it uses computer to keep balance instead of a simple 3rd weel!"

I know there is joke page on the Maddox website about this. I also remember a knockoff segway with a third wheel at a trade show. I don't think a third wheel would help though. Imagine standing up on a tricycle. You can easily knock yourself over by putting your center of mass over one of the sides of the triangle, which can happen easily when accelerating around. Therefore, you would still need an advanced control system computer for balance. But if you have that system, what is the point of the third wheel now?

I can't find any citatable sources, just a lot of forum arguments about it. But if theres arguments, a definitive answer on Wikipedia would sure be appreciated by them no? Anyone know some resources? 71.37.51.215 (talk) 00:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Segway Home Page?

Does Segway have an Internet web site? I read the article and don't see it listed, only links to "Segway Today" - is that it? 96.231.161.184 (talk) 06:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. A vandal removed the section in January. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)