Talk:Scottsdale, Arizona
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[edit] Affluence and High Society contradiction with income
This article claims that Scottsdale is a center of affluence and "high society" and yet the very same article cites very low median and per capita incomes, thereby contradicting itself. With a per capita income of $39,158, Scottsdale is middle-class at best and a long way from being "high society." This contradiction alone proves how highly biased this article is and serves to discredit the neutrality and validity of Wikipedia.(talk) 00:37, 7 March 2008 (UTC) John Thorley
[edit] Scottsdale trash
I recently added some content which was removed by an editor. I expected it to be removed, but found the editor being from Germany most unsavory. Anyway, I added a tastefully constructed section title "perceptions outside the city". In this section I mention the term "Scottsdale trash", which is a commonly heard term to refer to people who are either from Scottsdale or perceived to be. I hear it most often in Flagstaff, which is where I live. This usage comes from the obvious resentment to them and their attitude and their need to be noticed. I also mentioned the recent real estate boom which many in Flag blame on "Scottsdale trash" like people. Have any of you ever heard or used this term? Do you feel it is deserving, and may an article on it be in order, if not a section in the main Scottsdale page?-Jim
[edit] Snobsdale/Snotsdale
I saw this "article" and had to laugh. A little about me: I moved here in 2000. Since then, I've become very successful, a NY Times bestseller, and now that I've accomplished all that ... it's time to leave Scottsdale.
Quite honestly, I've found that rich people in Arizona DO NOT live in Scottsdale. They live in Arcadia, Paradise Valley, or the wealthiest zip code in all of AZ, 85302, which is in - gasp! - Glendale!
Scottsdale, unfortunately, is home to the fakes with 3 mortgages and 20 maxed-out credit cards. The wealthy simply do not live here. It's the phonies who live on credit and want you to *believe* they're successful who live here. Let me tell you, since achieving success myself, I've gotten to know lots and lots of millionaires, and nearly all of them are low-key and would never be caught dead living in a place like Scottsdale. And that's why I'm packing my bags and moving.
In addition, I was disturbed that the article cited many people & places that aren't even in Scottsdale but instead are in the beautiful City of Phoenix. For example, the Wrigley Mansion is in Phoenix - and not even close to the Scottsdale border. Paul Harvey is a resident of Phoenix, NOT Scottsdale, and again is miles from the border, too far to even consider him as being near Scottsdale.
In all, this article is clearly a sham posted by yet another "$30,000 millionaire" as they're known locally. Sorry Scottsdale, but you're not even in the top 100 wealthiest towns in America. Heck, Paradise Valley, which is 10x more expensive than Scottsdale, ranked as #117, so you have a long, long way to go. The truth is that Scottsdale is not expensive. It is very, very affordable compared to where I grew up in the Northeast, and to where I'm moving to in CA. Want to know the #1 reason why people move to Scottsdale? Because it's cheap compared to any big city in the U.S. Look up the surveys for yourself.
Yes, I must second this. Scottsdale is not at all expensive compared to many, many U.S. locales. Please understand, resort places are never as wealthy as the places from which their residents came. The average income in Scottsdale is $50k, average house is $550k? That's typical of any good suburb in most major urban areas. Scottsdale really resembles a little Las Vegas, sans casinos, i.e. showy surface fanciness. This is a familiarly cheesy booster-type Wiki article. 216.80.81.193 22:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Why is there NO reference to how this town is generally full of:
- selfish little brats wasting their mommy and daddy's money,
- stuck up rich people, namely women in their 40's-50's with a false sense of self accomplishment and arrogance, while their plastic surgeon and CEO husbands cheat on them with 19 year old girls,
etc.? Scottsdale has a huge reputation for this and you're probably not an Arizonan if you have never heard these two nicknames!
Scottsdale is a great city. Who cares if their residents have money? Who cares if some of the people are brats. You see brats everywhere. You can't take a city of 200,000 and label it "snobbsdale" because of the 500 16-18 year old girls who drive a luxury car and buy designer clothes. You suck it up and stop bitching.
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- I agree! I don't understand why *cough* morons *cough* keep deleting the "Snobbsdale" references. They're not POV! It's like going into the New York City article and deleting all references to "The Big Apple". Snobsdale is DEFINITELY a common nickname for it and if you don't like the sound of it, tough tits. --bī-RŌ 21:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, and don't forget that all the women in the town are rich, white (though tanned to leather), bottle blond, and have giant fake boobs. It's basically the Arizona version of Beverly Hills. --bī-RŌ 21:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Alas, on Tuesday, an article was featured in the Chicago Tribune providing substantiated, hard proof of the 'Snottsdale' name; A new sin city: `Snottsdale'. From my hometown newspaper, no doubt. I rest my case, your honor. ;-) Dr. Cash 00:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Anyone who lives in Scottsdale knows that we are lucky...to have grown up in a city like this usually means at least one of our parents has worked their ass off to get us there. Therefore, to sit there and pigeonhole every person in Scottsdale as being a snob is highly defensive. I've lived in Scottsdale for nine years and recently left for college and I have never heard ANYONE say "Shea Corridor" I hear the "Snobsdale" jokes usually only said by teenagers or low class, jealous idiots. I've never heard that as the "Nickname" haha...Scottsdale is also a very artsy town and to pigeonhole it into being similar to Newport Beach or something really irritates someone who has actually lived there. This doesn't even sound like a professional encyclopedia article. It sounds like a lame editorial or something. I think a lot of parts of this article need to be edited. It enrages me to see an article about my hometown written the way it is. This is ridiculous.
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- BOO HOO. Cry me a river. Scottsdale's nickname is Snottsdale, like it or not, and people should quit whitewashing the article to remove all references to it. Anyone who's been around the Phoenix area long enough has heard the name, and now it's even been in print. --bī-RŌ 00:46, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
--Born in AZ and having lived in Scottsdale (for 20+ years split between both North and South Scottsdale, though mostly in what would be classified as Old Town on here), Mesa, Tempe, Phoenix and Glendale I only ever heard the term "Shea Corridor" on Wikipedia, and the term "snottsdale/snobsdale" in the last year, from my Chicago transplanted in-law that lives in Glendale. In any case the term is somewhat unfair and misleading as it would really only apply to portions of the population residing in North Scottsdale. I have attended Little League games between North & South Scottsdale teams in South Scottsdale and heard comments from North Scottsdale parents regarding being disgusted at having to travel into the "white trash slums" of South Scottsdale. While North Scottsdale is generally wealthier than South Scottsdale (or at least more flamboyant about their wealth), the people of South Scottsdale (I consider Shea to be the general divider of North/South) as a whole are no snobbier than anywhere else in the border area of Tempe/Phoenix/Mesa.128.206.56.241 15:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Please, I don't mean to be rude with any of this. I moved from Washington state last year to Tucson. A month or two ago, getting to know our new state, we visited Scottsdale; as we've done around the rest of the state. My God! Walking through that mall was like a Laguna Beach episode, and every discussion I overheard, just as vapid. It renewed my visceral disdain for everything associated with this phony, so-called "culture." I felt like I'd dropped a few I.Q. points just breathing the same air as these people. But there are other parts of town, and the antiquarian book shops are wonderful (though conspicuously empty--I suppose I was spoiled myself, living near Portland; which is virtually one big bookstore itself). I've been to wealthy places before, but this was just obscene. Like, time to start class warfare obscene. I don't doubt some people work very hard to become rich. I just find it a character defect that many are a slave to it - Bill Gates and Paul Allen were always low-key. In any case, while not wanting to generalize the whole town (and I'd rather spend time with the "white trash"), you've got to mention the epithets. Even I've heard them (maybe it's a transplant thing?). This is an encyclopædia. That means at least mentioning facts. Whether or not you agree that the epithet/s are justified; they do exist. It's no accident that Hollywood celebrities, and politicians (not mentioning any names) head straight to Scottsdale. I can understand being defensive though. I'm defensive of my home town, which was often disparaged as well (though for completely different reasons). Khirad 09:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Some users in this discussion do not really know what they are talking about and overly jealous of Scottsdale residents
I was born in Scottsdale, and lived there until my 20s. Having lived in other parts of Arizona and the United States, I would say this nickname certainly applies. I have heard the label my whole life, from natives, transplants, and visitors. I agree that Scottsdalians do have a sense of superiority and entitlement, and pass off any criticism as jealousy. I do find the description of South Scottsdale in the article most untrue. The protrayal as a "white trash slum" full of strip clubs, check cashing joints and so on to be totally inaccurate, and only shows the bias of the North/ South division. In truth, Scottdale did not exisit beyond Shea until relatively recently: my family moved to the area in the 1950s and 1960s, when Shea was a two lane dirt road, and any decent monsoon flooded the Indian Bend Wash and cut off Scottsdale from the rest of Pheonix. I would be interested in seeing information on the history and development on the city as much as the glamour of the self- important. For being such a "great city," nothing in the world would tempt me to move back to Scottsdale. It is so true the charactarization of those who move to Scottsdale now: newly rich and flaunting it, with little class. 68.107.137.1 00:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- I've lived in Scottsdale, Tempe, or Paradise Valley, excepting a few overseas stints, for more than twenty years. We can like it or not like it, but Scottsdale is widely derided as "Snottsdale" by the working-class residents of less affluent suburbs (Tempe/Mesa/Chandler or, especially, the West Side). While it would be inappropriate for WP to pass judgement on the tastes or intellectual capacities of the town's residents, it is encyclopedic to mention that the town has rather a negative reputation within the metropolitan area. To delete mention of this is not being NPOV, it's suppressing mention of a widespread local perception. ("Snobsdale" is a new one to me, though; maybe that's what the kids say today...)
- It is also important, BTW, to mention the tremendous socioeconomic differences between the (increasingly Hispanic and working-class) south and the (essentially 100% white and very bourgeois) north, and that long-time residents of the south are often very touchy about being lumped in with the newly-arrived and newly-rich northerners.
- Oh, and FWIW, North Scottsdale is anything north of Via Linda, whatever all you newcomers say. If you don't remember when they they sold firearms at Smitty's (that's Fry's supermarkets nowadays), or when the Pavillions were riding stables, you're not qualified to comment on the subject. *grin* Tkinias 22:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
- Tkinias, I remember buying Pogs from Smitty's, not guns though, ahh those were the days. Personally being born and raised in North Scottsdale for the last 24 years and being in the low-middle class my whole life (Yes, apartments and town homes exist everyone.) I honestly have heard the term "Snobbsdale" numerous times and wonder who people/kids were referring to, as it couldn't be me; I bought shoes from Payless (but that's another story).
- Well the bourgeois part is a down right twist to the reality. Yes almost everyone here actually works for their money, but to use such a broad term and classify us as socialist in the same breathe is pretty harsh. I'll let you know I know plenty of Libertarians, and true Goldwater Republicans. A perfect example is the most recent vote to ban gay marriage, and the only state "not to make more laws", was Arizona. Sadly we lost the war over private property. (No smoking in businesses)
- They are 1,000's of people in N.Scottsdale who aren't rich in any way shape or form. It has only been in the last 20 years North Scottsdale has grown, albeit insanely fast, I remember when 100th Street and Thunderbird was as far North/East N.Scottsdale went. Now it's 140st & BFE.
- If WP wants to start "generalizing" whole cities by some bigots response, then what else would pass the mustard? Does it matter that I've heard the term before. I personally don't think so, I've heard many "other" terms which we don't publish and relate with as an informational resource. For example, WP doesn't classify certain races with "racial slangs" known to the public and post them as a resource. Correct? Nbbs 11:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- This article comes off like it was written by a paid employee of the city of Scottsdale. I kept skipping over many parts because its written in horrible fashion (unnecessary details), its waaaay too long for a city of Scottsdale's size (you'd think we were talking about New York, Chicago, or Phoenix for that matter), and it constantly keeps referring to housing prices, which are probably no longer correct since the entire country is now seeing a real estate slump. Portions of it come off as if it were attacking Phoenix (I don't think the Phoenix article stoops to attacking Scottsdale), and I don't need to know every existing or soon-to-be-existing hotel chain in Scottsdale. And Scottsdale Airport helps brings in $3 BILLION annually? Does Sky Harbor bring in that much? Hell, does LAX bring in that much?! Whatever, this article needs to be half the size, and not written by someone who thinks the state of Arizona would not function without Scottsdale. I have nothing against the city, but come on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.192.14.194 (talk) 13:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Something Else
Good work in moving the contents from Scottsdale, Ortolan88. I wasn't confident enough in my knowledge of the USA to do it myself! I'll put the bit you removed here on the Talk page, just in case anyone wants to debate it, although I will say straight away that I personally have no interest in seeing it put back. -- Oliver PEREIRA 02:16 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)
- "Nicknamed Snotsdale by many, this area hosts a variety of businesses, such as Soccer Express, Neiman Marcus, Starbucks Coffee amd the John Casablancas Modeling and Acting School."
Yes, this is just a wee touch too sarcastic to be encyclopedic... Tkinias 02:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removing Pima name from first line.
I moved the Pima name down from being listed alongside the name Scottsdale, to be consistent with the Tucson article. A full discussion of that situation was held at Talk:Tucson, Arizona. kmccoy (talk) 00:29, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- This is inconsistent with policy. You will have to hold an individual vote for each case, and even then it isn't technically alright to let a local poll override preexisting policy.
- There is no policy on this matter other than the RFC that was held on Talk:Tucson, Arizona, and in which a number of interested parties joined. Perhaps you should call an RFC on making Tucson a special case, and keeping the first line names in these other cities. As it stands, the non-English names for these cities get more space and more explanation if they are included as I've done, rather than without explanation at the top of the article. I don't understand why you oppose including MORE information rather than less. Why can't we find a happy place, node? Why do you bring this issue up again after MONTHS of letting it rest? kmccoy (talk) 03:58, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- I don't get it - you're the one who let my version stay but reverted it recently, and you're accusing ME of bringing it up again after months of letting it rest? Preexisting policy (naming conventions, style guide) is to do it the way I've done it. The RfC at Talk:Tucson, Arizona was a vote on which of two versions, which differed in more than one way, was better than the other. There was no sort of clause that people voted on that said "There is a certain principle here that should be held to all pages". If you want to make thing confusing and discriminatory, there needs to be another RfC which expressly states that it is NOT local and applies to ALL places on ALL continents, voting on whether to use your thing or mine. --Node 08:11, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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- Oh, you sillies! Get a life! I am removing the Piman name because we have not displayed the Maricopan, nor have we displayed the name in Apache, Navajo, or any of the "Pai" languages, which are spoken in the area and are indigenous.
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- They are indigenous to Arizona, but not to Scottsdale. Only O'odham is native to the Valley of the Sun, although you could make a case for including Yavapai and Western Apache, the linguistic borders of which were just north and east of most of the current Valley. --Node 06:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
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The southern border of Scottsdale Old Town / South Scottsdale extends a mile south of McDowell Rd. all the way to Mckellips Rd. east of Scottsdale Rd. On the west side the border with Tempe is a half mile south to Roosevelt.
The Heard Museum is not located in Scottsdale, It is in downtown Phoenix on Central Av.
- There is a branch of the Heard Museum, the Heard Museum North, in Scottsdale. See http://www.heard.org/visit-heardnorth.php. Tonio Kroger 18:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Who wrote this page?
My understanding is that Scottsdale's only nickname is "The West's Most Western Town," I've seen it on signs all over town. (See also: http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/historiczoning/arts.asp "The Chamber [of Commerce] proclaimed Scottsdale as the "West's Most Western Town" in 1947 ...")
My understanding is that the nickname "Beverly Hills of the Desert" was initiated in an article in the New York Times.
In the areas of town section... my understanding is that most people refer to that area as Shea - Near Shea, just past Shea, take a left at Shea, etc.
I'm curious if anyone who lives in Scottsdale has ever heard anyone say "Central Scottsdale"? Old Town and South Scottsdale are not the same thing. Old Town is pretty much ONLY the shopping area near Scottsdale Rd, south of Indian School Rd.
South Scottsdale can refer to anything south of Shea - depending upon who is talking and how long they've lived here or what mood they're in. As any resident knows, that's the big joke - where "South Scottsdale" begins.
Anyhow, if you're a contributor - I'm sorry for my previously harsh comments on this page and appreciate your work creating this article.
- I did [not] right this article, but I'll agree that I've never heard someone who actually lived here say "Central Scottsdale"...there's no such thing. It's South Scottsdale and Old Town Scottsdale (shopping area) just like you said. If people want to get technical, North Scottsdale (Shea area) is [now] actually Central Scottsdale, (if you had to use the term) as N. Scottsdale starts roughly at Shea and goes up past Dynamite which is around 15 miles North of Shea. Talk about a drive. Nbbs 20:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Shea Corridor change
I was one of the original contributors to expansion of the Scottsdale page however long ago that was, much ado was made of the "Central Scottsdale" label (which was not mine actually, but I made edits under it), Shea Corridor is a far better descriptive name that fits with actual usage. And I think the most recent comment is right, where "South Scottsdale" begins is indeed a big joke, but geographically, the "center" of Scottsdale is just south of Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, which most would concede is "North Scottsdale." Bottom line - this article will change and morph just as the city's landscape does, as it is intended. And for the record, I've lived here for 23 years.
- I didn't see your post until I posted above, but you sir are correct. 24 years. :P Nbbs 20:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Great travel brochure
Not so great wikipedia article. Seriously, if I had a dime for every time the Scottsdale was mentioned as the, "top x for something," or for how many celebrities are named as potentially living in Scottsdale, I could probably afford to live there! Most of these "top x" lists need references at best, and we should probably look at pruning some of them from the article a bit. I already inserted a few references in places, but that's just a start. Dr. Cash 06:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- I deleted some superfluous and not back up information to make it sound less travel brochurey. This article still needs a lot of work as most of it is boasting Scottsdale's greatness, though that is fine as Scottsdale makes most of its money from tourism and that is really what Scottsdale centers around, its relaxation. Sarasote 16:09 20 June 2006
[edit] Best Places in US to Live
The above listed article on CNNMoney lists Scottsdale as the number 7 best place to live in the U.S. This article appears to be a bit more than your typical editorial, as they also provide a good overview of statistics on the city and other information. It probably can be used as a reference to help improve this article, too. Dr. Cash 21:57, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Phil Mickelson
He doesn't live here! Let's stop kidding ourselves! - Unsigned comment from 205.244.41.26
- Don't know who you are, since you left a quote only using your IP address and didn't put your name there. But I checked on Phil's official website, which lists his birthplace and residence as San Diego, California, but also lists him graduating from Arizona State University in nearby Tempe, Arizona in 1992, and lists an "Attachment" to Grayhawk Golf Club in Scottsdale. Not sure what the attachment means, but it's also interesting to note that his management company, Gaylord Sports Management, is based in Scottsdale. So he appears to have a connection to the city, but if we're looking at residence specifically, then no, he doesn't live in Scottsdale. Dr. Cash 02:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
- Phil Mickelson's primary residence was in Scottsdale for many years. Today, he owns a home here and splits his time between here and San Diego, but now I think hes moved to a different community and not San Diego proper. He is, unless he left, also an associate instructor at Grayhawk and likes to practice here. Perhaps it should be lisited under second-homes, but he spends more time here than just an average second-home user Sarasote 18:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
- He doesn't split time between Scottsdale and San Diego. He spends the majority of his time in California and no longer owns a home in Scottsdale.
[edit] Xeriscaping
Stupid idea. Should be noted that Scottsdale implements this sort of landscaping but doesn't realize its negative effects to the urban heat island, only the immediate positive effects of using less water. Looks ugly too!
I contend that it is not ugly, except that I do not recommend falling on top of cacti.
Hopiakuta 01:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "West's Most Western Town"
This has not been accurate since prohibition of new horse corral construction.
Hopiakuta 01:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
It's virtually all urban | suburban construction. Vacant desert shrunk. Fewer horses,...
hopiakuta 05:32, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Former Scottsdale police chief Doug Bartosh in March of 2008 admitted: "Scottsdale certainly is not the West's Most Western Town anymore. It's a progressive city..."[1] Wlindley (talk) 20:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] This
article needs more of:
Scottsdale Community College is on the Pima Reservation, Salt_River_Pima-Maricopa_Indian_Community;
the school mascot[s] are pink, gold & green [& white] artichokes;
Pima;
< http://www.saltriver.pima-maricopa.nsn.us >;
Hopi;
Fountain_Hills [ Fountain_Hill ];
Paradise_Valley,_Arizona [ township ];
Paradise_Valley District, northeast Phoenix,_Arizona;
Thank You.
hopiakuta 20:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I would dispute this edit, as most film stars would be either: adult, child, or, if neither, likely, dead:
< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scottsdale%2C_Arizona&diff=78016841&oldid=77935090 >.
Thank You.
hopiakuta 19:14, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
hopiakuta ; [[ <nowiki> </nowiki> { [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 03:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
hopiakuta ; [[ <nowiki> </nowiki> { [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 03:43, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Most of the above list are other cities in the Phoenix area, and not Scottsdale. Information about those other cities should be in their own city articles, not this one. The general neighborhood of Scottsdale is relevant, though, so linking to these other city articles would be fine. Dr. Cash 05:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Health Concerns
I started a new topic for it because people keep adding to it, and it should be if anything at the end of the history section because it is the most recent event and did come after the city was founded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrewHorne (talk • contribs)
- Section removed. WTF was that all about?! It was poorly-written, unencyclopedic, and looked more like a personal rant than a section in an encyclopedia. Dr. Cash 20:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
This information reappeared again, as three paragraphs added to the beginning of the 'history' section, and it has been removed. I did do some research, however, and the information is not completely unfounded. This EPA link provides information about the Indian Bend Wash Superfund site in Scottsdale and Tempe. Some information about this probably should be added to the article in some form or another, but I still don't think that three paragraphs at the BEGINNING of 'history' is appropriate. It can be condensed down to a sentence or two and a reference citation added. Dr. Cash 04:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've added a few sentences, with a reference, to the 'economy' section on the TCE issue, and reverted Devawn's diatribe from the 'history' section again. A look at his edit history indicates that his only contributions to wikipedia are edits to this article and this issue. I suspect that Devawn is going to continue to attempt to use this wikipedia article as his personal soapbox with regard to this issue, though. Dr. Cash 19:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
The History section has been changed again to include the TCE issue. As before, this does not belong at the beginning of the history section (it certainly didn't happen before the Hohokam lived here). Also, since there is a section about this in the Economy section, it seems redundant to include it here as well. Not sure if the Economy section is the best place for it either, but the beginning of the history section is clearly wrong. Innebandy 21:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
- I've moved and rewritten that section. It does not go at the beginning of the history section. Putting it there seems to tell me that someone is trying to promote their own issue, which not what wikipedia is for. The section was also written like a high school essay, so I have rewritten it and added proper references. Dr. Cash 21:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Wow, was this page written by Bill Scottsdale?
This is the most pro-Scottsdale site on the Internet. Sincerely, Mum!a —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.84.220.161 (talk) 05:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
[edit] unsourced population info removed from lead
I removed the following paragraph from the lead section, as it is unsourced, and not very well written:
- "It should be noted that an additional 72,757 people have a Scottsdale mailing address but do not actually live in Scottsdale according the Census Bureau in 2000. Interestingly, of all the cities in the Phoenix metropolitan area, it has the largest surplus of people with a mailing address to not actually live in the city. More than half of these people live in the 85254 zip code, which is 90% Phoenix land. Other people with Scottsdale mailing addresses may live in other smaller areas of east Phoenix, unincorporated Maricopa County, or the Salt River Indian Reservation."
If it is added back in, it needs a source. It also probably should not go in the lead, as it's really not all that important. Maybe put it under 'demographics', but not the lead. Dr. Cash 18:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Indian Bend Wash Parks/Performing Arts Center/McCormick Ranch added to history
I added three items to the history portion.
1. The parks in the Indian Bend Wash. This was a defining part of the history of the city as it provided the first major differentiation among the nearby towns. It was an achievement in its own right to build a park system in a wash, an untried idea at the time. And it hopefully will preserve the idea for children reading it that there is sometimes a better way of doing things than the tried and true. I recall their being a fight over the canal vs. parks, but I don't recall if it was decided by referendum or by the city council, so I left the wording the more ambiguous "voted by the city".
2. The discussion of the McCormick Ranch/Scottsdale ranch being opened up for development following the addition of the parks shows the roots of the north/south scottsdale income disparity and the origins of the snobsdale nickname, while recognizing the first Talk Point about the monied portions of Scottsdale being somewhat of a nuveau riche issue.
3. The annexation wars between Phoenix and Scottsdale, which was done only to show how the present day western boundary was arrived at.
I also added the sign law and fire department portions. Although I can't attest to the progressive nature of the city government today, those ideas were also controversial at the time, and although the fire department privatization never took off, visitors may wonder about the color of the fire engines (I assume they are still yellow) and Scottsdale was a leader on the sign law (it was the first to take it to the supreme court, but I don't recall if it was the first to adopt the sign law).
I was born in South Scottsdale in 1961, went to Hohokam Elementary for K-8 and Coronado High for all four years, moving away in 1979. I worked as a volunteer for the City Parks and Rec department in the 70s, so I was privy to the discussions regarding the parks and the development of the performing arts center. I recall the 119 record heat day of 1970 clearly: my mom cracked an egg on the sidewalk to see if it would cook. It sat there all afternoon but didn't actually cook, though it did sear the day in my memory.
The residents of the southern part of town were so poor in the 60s and 70s, that my high school counselor for colleges (who was the drivers ed teacher) actually berated me for daring to apply to Harvard and Stanford in 1978, telling me that "No one from this school ever got into schools like that: your dad has to donate a football field before they let you go there. Your application fees are money down the drain." I got in and the next year, my understanding is about half the school applied to Stanford - proof that I really was seen as kind of a goof off, and people figured if I could do it, anyone could. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stanford1993guy (talk • contribs) 20:00:45, August 19, 2007 (UTC).
It's important that the idea that a park system could really elevate a town should not be lost. It is my hope that after all the editing (and removing) is said and done, that the idea that a park system could set in motion a change of a town from a modest income city to a rich one will be part of the history of the city. If you had been around in the 60s, you'd realize how important the addition of the park system instead of an ugly canal really was, and the fact that it turned a sleepy, middle or lower income town into a much richer one was quite an accomplishment over the Army Corps, who really wanted to build the canal.
I recall El Dorado park being built first, and almost immediately being flooded by the wash, which again flowed after yet another "99 year" storm (storms that were supposed to be so rare, they would only occur every 99 years). I don't recall at the time whether the rest of the system had already been approved or whether the successful test of El Dorado park resulted in the rest of the park system being approved, but public support for the system was certainly enhanced when people saw how quickly after the wash flowed that El Dorado park could be restored. Stanford1993guy 17:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for adding this information. Although it's a bit long, a little paraphrasing and copyediting couldn't hurt. Also, it's unreferenced; wikipedia content must be verifiable. Could you provide a reference for where you got this info? You can find more information regarding citing sources and including inline citations in article text at WP:CITE. Thanks! Dr. Cash 21:56, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh sorry. It was all done from memory, and I don't live in the area any longer so finding references, most of which would be in the scottsdale public library, is not possible. If no one is up to the task of locating the references, then feel free to edit or even delete the part I wrote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stanford1993guy (talk • contribs) 03:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
El Dorado Park's amphitheater is now "The Wedge" skate park. Was the theater really ever used for performances? It seems such a waste... surely the high schools used to play Saturday concerts? Can't we do that again? What's the history of it? Wlindley (talk) 04:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Not neutral or proven
"The nouveau riche that quickly filled these more expensive homes became the butt of many jokes and the source of the "Snottsdale" or "Snobbsdale" nickname: both made by the lower middle class residents remaining in south Scottsdale, and the "old money" residents of Paradise Valley and portions of Phoenix around Camelback Mountain who refused to move to Scottsdale, in spite of the relatively sparse recreational facilities of those areas."
I removed the last part because Im from Scottsdale and many residents here call it Snobsdale. Not just poorer people or old people. Please, that cant even be verified and is an insult anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.238.83.35 (talk) 16:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] George Washington Scott
Not sure but I think you have a link to the wrong George Washington Scott. It's possible that there was more than one George Washington Scott in the U.S. The time periods and locations don't match up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.236.22.138 (talk) 00:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
