Talk:Scientific misconduct

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[edit] Jan Hendrik Schoen

nevermind =p it is listed

[edit] Gupta

Could someone write an article about paleontologist Gupta? He falsified fossils for tens of years and nevertheles retired from his position in India without any serious punishment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuinu (talk • contribs) 22:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jacques Benveniste

Also removed from the article:

*Jacques Benveniste and the memory of water, a theory to support homeopathy.

As far as I know, no-one has alleged scientific misconduct here. They disagree with him, they dismiss his results, but they are not accusing him of fraud. -- Karada 08:51, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, there is insufficient evidence to claim the Jacques Benveniste committed fraud in his water memory research. However, he did appear to be at least incompetent and committed serious breaches of basic scientific method -- and that should still leave him open to charges of misconduct. After all, not all misconduct involves deliberate falsification. I think we should have a link about him in the main article, perhaps with a qualifying note. -- FirstPrinciples 02:04, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Planet X

I cannot see why "Planet X" was on this list. I know that mistakes where made in the initiation of the search for it. However, those mistakes were made in good faith. Lowell thought that he saw something siginificant. --EMS | Talk 18:40, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re addition of Little Albert

John B. Watson's Little Albert experiment has been added to the list of cases of misconduct. I am not wholly familiar with the case but I have the impression that the objections to this experiment were primarily ethical as opposed to methodological. Is this a distinction we need to make? unethical research (mengele et al.) versus scientific misconduct/fraudulent claims. It is possible to posit a situation where a scientifically valid result was obtained unethically. Just such a case has been argued with regard to Nazi hypothermia experiments on Russian POWs. (I am aware that there are all kinds of issues here I am just raising the question) --Sf 13:48, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. I considered breaking out separate lists (subsections) before, because there are other cases already that shouldn't go into the same list. The Sokal affair affair, for instance, was about a scientist who tricked a journal to expose their lack of scientific rigor. Some cases are clear-cut proven plagiarism or fraud, some are generally thought to have been honest, stupid mistakes, for some there's an ongoing controversy about the claims made. Notably absent from the current page are people like Gregor Mendel who are suspected (in some cases known) to have tuned their data in order to make them fit their theory, or established scientists who used their clout to write their competition out of science history. But I digress. Can we come up with a decent classification? Rl 14:11, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Piltdown Man

I have removed the Piltdown Man. The story qualifies better as a hoax. Pilatus 17:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with your judgement. However, I would have preferred to keep the link around, maybe in a separate section (or just "See also"). The Piltdown man is related, after all. Rl 18:04, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Incompetence

Perhaps scientific incompetence should be added to the list? I'm not talking about ordinary experimental error, but gross failure to abide by scientific protocols and practice--even if inadvertent. Perhaps someone could create that article?

[edit] Leo A. Paquette

I have removed Leo A. Paquette from the list "Cases of alleged scientific misconduct and related incidents" (he had been added today). Reasoning:

Unlike most if not all other cases in that list, Paquette is most remarkable not for misconduct, but for his achievements. So just putting him down on the list without an article to explain the facts doesn't seem right.
After some searching, I could find a source implying that he or someone under his responsibility plagiarized sections of the research design for a grant application. This was bad and had consequences, but it is clearly not in the league of issues we are documenting here. It should be mentioned in his own article when he gets one, it might fit a separate (and very long) list of minor cases of alleged scientific misconduct and related incidents, but at least based on that incident does not belong here.

Algae 09:14, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

The article 'Scientific misconduct' does not distinguish between minor misconduct and those that seem to fit an arbitrary definition as to what the major misconduct listed here is. Leo Paquette's contributions to the field are truly full of merit, but his plagiarism was unethical and an act of misconduct. If you would like to produce an article on Dr. Paquette’s accomplishments, by all means, but it doesn’t dismiss the finding of misconduct and the 2 years of suspended funding he received as reprimand. Indeed, the article partly DEFINES Scientific misconduct as Plagiarism

Jgassens 18:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I won't let myself get pulled into a revert war, so I let it rest. However, I totally dispute your reasoning and stand by what I said. By all means, write an article about this guy and document all the bad things he did, but this page here should list major cases and not all the thousands of minor incidents. And by the way, allegations like these should always be documented – but so far I am the only one to offer a source.

We need a category for these folks, so we can add it to your article on Leo A. Paquette and keep only the major, exemplary, well-known cases in this article. Algae 19:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree. There's simply too many cases of minor misconduct to list, and they're not sufficiently notable for inclusion, especially with the preponderance of major cases that are available for discussion. Deco 20:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I just don't see the dilution of the offense meaningful here to protect someone on the basis of their accolades. I don't mean to indict his character, but willfully plagiarizing a document you receive, which you received on the basis you would not disclose the contents of, is nothing less than fraud. When then conclusion is: "NSF's General Counsel has stated Paquette "poses too great a business risk to receive government funding."[1] one cannot disagree fraud was committed. I agree Paquette's contribution to the field has been immense; however per any definition of 'misconduct' he did indeed do it. Hopefully, his actions will discourage others from doing the same thing. Jgassens 15:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for providing sources. – You assume that we are trying to protect Paquette. Well, I do think it's unfair to list someone who cheated once among others who have based their entire career and reputation on lies, especially when there are no further explanations within WP. Much more importantly, however, that is an important disctinction for the reader. As a reader, I would expect to find a short list of important cases and an extra article or a category if I was interested in an exhaustive list. Algae 16:22, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category for people involved in scientific misconduct

The closest I found is Category:Scientific scandals. A select few of our friends here are already members of that category. Do we add the rest there as well, or can anyone think of a better category name? Category:People involved in scientific misconduct seems a bit long. Algae 16:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I would agree on a good category for listing these cases. Actually, I just put up the Category:Scientific hoaxes for deletion, since it contained links to weird science, scientific fraud and to silly jokes without them having anything really in common. Perhaps Category:Cases of scientific misconduct is an idea? Cpt. Morgan 21:26, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

It seems a bit odd if articles on people are tagged as cases of scientific misconduct, but it's good enough as far as I am concerned. If a better idea comes up, we can still move the pages to a new category. Algae 21:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd actually go for "People involved in scientific misconduct" if it weren't so vague. Maybe "Scientists accused of misconduct" or something like that - this has the added benefit that it doesn't make a judgement of innocence or guilt, so that it's less inflammatory. Deco 21:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Works for me, too. What about articles like Piltdown Man or Retracted article on neurotoxicity of ecstasy that are not about people? Maybe simply Category:Scientific misconduct? Algae 22:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Deco 22:52, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I created and populated Category:Scientific misconduct. We should look into related categories, Category:Scientific hoaxes and Category:Scientific scandals to see how they relate. Algae 10:40, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

With the categories Category:Scientific hoaxes, Category:Scientific scandals, Category:Scientific misconduct and Category:Scientific_skepticism all present, do we still need the mixed list of (suspected) culprits in this article? Cpt. Morgan 18:26, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The list here serves to summarize the acts of misconduct. It could reasonably be moved out to a list, if it were long enough, but not a category. Deco 21:39, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The list provides (or can provide) some benefits the category doesn't offer: a) For starters, not all items on the list in the article are in the category. Not all of them fit the article to begin with, so they are not in the category, either. The article has more leeway for explaining why related articles are mentioned even though they don't really fit. b) The list could offer a break-down of the more important cases, sorted by type of incident, with short additional info like discipline, year, or impact. Categories cannot qualify their many entries.

I agree the list leaves to desire in its current form, but I'd prefer to keep it after some improvement (in a separate article if it gets too long). Algae 22:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shinichi Fujimura

I noticed that Shinichi Fujimura, a noted Japanese amateur archaeologist who planted his finds and was exposed in 2000, is not listed in this article. Should it be added into the list of cases?

Yes, please go ahead and add it. That was a pretty major case. Thanks for pointing it out. Algae 17:59, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sokal Affair?

Should the Sokal affair be considered misconduct? Sokal announced that the article in question was a hoax on the day it was published; and never intended for it to become part of the body of knowledge. Instead, his hoax was intended as a pointed criticism of so-called postmodernism (aside: the whole pomo debate is unfortunate; it would be nice if both the scientific community and their critics in the "lit crit" crowd would just shut up and listen to each other). On what grounds is it "misconduct"? Is the mere act of hoodwinking the editors of a journal (i.e. submitting an article in bad faith) sufficient to label the Sokal affair as such? Sokal has not been subject to any formal discipline or censure in the matter, that I'm aware of. --EngineerScotty 20:14, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree. I'm not sure how it relates to scientific misconduct, but it most certainly doesn't belong into that list. Algae 21:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suppression/non-publication of data

I have rewritten parts of this section because it was misleading. I'm not proud of my prose, but I hope it makes the issue clear. Algae 21:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo Manipulation

I created a photo manipulation stub regarding the recent efforts at the Journal of Cell Biology to prevent fraud via photo manipulation (see [2]) I'd appreciate if others could help develop it. JianLi 23:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Koren Olivieri

Removed. It doesn't fit the category. This is not a clear-cut case appropriate to this article, despite media blitz in past. Beware of all that hype of several years ago. More recent coverage, this year in MacLean's and in Dr. Miriam Shuchman's book, "The Trial", for example, now calls into question not only Olivieri's whistle-blowing, but her science and her professional behavior, as well, with regard to this affair and beyond. I'd be careful of coming down on either side, in any article. Koren's continuing achievements and contributions in his field appear to far outweigh his poor personal judgment in the thick of this dispute. These recent sources claim that his science in this case may indeed be standing the test of time. 80.178.140.110 03:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ward Churchill

Perhaps he wasn't guilty of scientific misconduct; he's not a scientist, after all. Churchill has been found to have engaged in numerous other sorts of academic dishonesy, including both fabrication and plagiarism, but in the context of historical rather than scientific study.

Thoughts? --EngineerScotty 00:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I am very much in favor of having separate pages for separate concepts. For the subject at hand, however, I don't see the benefit of making a difference between scientists and other academics. If the name of the page is a problem, we can switch to research misconduct because that is the allegation put forward in Ward Churchill's case. Or we can be more inclusive and name it scientific & research & scholarly misconduct & fraud & scandals & allegations which would cover even more of the cases that are actually listed on the page. I'd be interested in hearing Fastfission's reasoning and suggestion for where to put Wallace, if not here. Rl 07:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Gallo

This was added to the article 12:05, 8 September 2006 by 69.242.204.63:

Robert Gallo, the so-called discover of HIV should be added to this list as he stoled speciemens from the French and claimed them for his own. He stood before the world and it was announced that the "probable" cause of Aids was found. The probable was dropped and the very next day, Robert Gallo filled for a patent for this bogus test. He was later reprimanded by a scientific ethics committee. Hiv has never been scientifically proven to cause Aids. HIV —violates Koch Postulates, the golden rules of medicine.

Sounds... dubious. No evidence offered. Rl 10:25, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The French and US government had to get involved over patent rights. Rightfully so, since the French had discovered the virus. HIV does not fill Koch Prostulates in that 1) the virus must be ever present in the fluids of the person, it is not. Chemical have to be added and a DNA or what is termed PCR test must be used to even locate the shadows. 2) the virus must be in 100% of cases, it is not. There are HIV- cases of Aids 3)the virus must be given to an animal species and the anmial must get Aids. This has not happened in over twenty some years.69.242.204.63 10:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

This certainly would not be considered an example of scientific misconduct by the scientific community in general, since the number of scientists that question the HIV/AIDS link is very small. Also, we already have an article just about that subject: AIDS reappraisal. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 11:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Certainly over 2,000 scientist, medical and highly educated professionals could not be considered a small number. When the inventor of the DNA (PCR) Test, Dr. Kary Mullis states that it should not be used for HIV and the inventor of a cancer drug, AZT, in 1961 by Dr. Richard Beltz which is now being used for Aids, stated in 2000: you are justified in sounding a warning against long-term therapeutic use of AZT, or its use in pregnant women because of its demonstrated toxicity and side effects.... Your effort is worthy one..I hope you succeed in convincing your govenment not to make AZT available, a logical conclusion is that something is very wrong here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noreen martin (talk • contribs) 12:08, 8 September 2006

I am not contending the opinion by HIV critics here (and will not go into that discussion at this point). What I am saying is that the majority of the scientific community does not consider Gallo's experiments scientific misconduct, so it should not be included here. Wikipedia surely gives a lot of attention to the whole discussion in other articles, see for example AIDS reappraisal and Duesberg hypothesis. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 12:36, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of scientific fraud

Ask most scientists about scientific fraud and they will readily tell you what it is. The most extreme cases are obvious: manufacturing data and altering experimental results. Then there is plagiarism: using someone else's text or data without acknowledgement. More difficult are the borderline cases: minor fudging of data, reporting only the good results and not citing other people's work that should be given credit. Because obvious fraud is thought to be both rare and extremely serious, the normal idea is that it warrants serious penalties. Brian Martin Published in Prometheus, Vol. 10, No. 1, June 1992, pp. 83-98.

Should this go in the article? --Uncle Ed 18:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dulbecco's law (RfC)

So we don't committ bad ol' OR, here is an example of "Dulbecco's law" used in a university lecture on science fraud at the University of Copenhagen. I used to hear about it all the time as a grad student.Pproctor 19:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The fact that it is difficult to find cites to Dulbecco's law on the net does not mean it does not exist, or that such do not exist in the published literature, as the authoritative cite shows.

Also see here sample quote: "His primary criticism: Wikipedia has “a small set of content generators, a massive amount of wonks and twiddlers, and then a heaping amount of procedural whackjobs”—and the larger groups mean content generators “have to become content defenders,” defending their expert text against changes from a larger group of people with no expertise in the subject." Ya have to fight Larry Sangers "Fools and Trolls" you find them. Otherwise, they will harass the "small set of content generators" right off Wikipedia.Pproctor 00:44, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you take a moment to realize that – especially on pages like these – you are not the only editor with academic credentials. You are an MD, so your claims regarding Dulbecco's law are not within your area of expertise. And even if you were an expert in the sociology of science, you'd still have to cite decent evidence for your claims like everybody else and like you do whenever you write scientific articles. The sources you offered (and the ones I found myself) make it appear that the term is obscure, maybe a local phenomenon with no authoritative or accepted definition. I realize how frustrating that must be for you if you a term from your daily work, but what you're doing really amounts to original research, and not of the most solid kind. Rl 23:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Wrong. I'm and MD and a PhD, a point I have made repeatedly. In fact, was a PhD, long before a physician. I even mentioned I had heard this expression in graduate school. Clue: Grad school produces PhD's (my case-- biophysics/pharmacology), medical school produces MD's. So I know how this world works. Anyway, my expertise doesn't count here except that I know the literature. I have produced a valid cite. This is true even if you have not the knowledge or experience to recognize it as such. That is what "expertise" means on Wikipedia-- now it is your turn.

The citation is not obscure or local. E.g., the expression "Dulbecco's law" is in English, not Danish-- so why is a professor in a Danish University talking about it? Just maybe, it is general. Moreover, it is literally "doctrine", meaning "that which is taught". In fact, your assertion is classic "Original Research", which you seem so ready to accuse everyone else of. At least be consistent. Wikipedia is not a Chinese buffet.

Simply-stated: The professor is an expert on science fraud at a Danish university. The Lancet article (there is a link to it in the article, so you can read it yourself) indicates the Danes are world leaders in the matter of Science fraud. In fact, the rest of the Scandinavian Countries took their lead from the Danes and likewise much of the rest of the world is influenced by the Danish experience.Pproctor 06:23, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

We cannot simply take your word that you've "heard this expression in graduate school" and it's "not obscure or local." You've got to establish its notability. A one-sentence definition in someone's Powerpoint presentation is poor evidence that the phrase is as notable as you say. TomTheHand 19:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

You misrepresent. To give some perspective, I say here on the talk page that I have heard this expression for the last few decades. Following WK:NOR, I then give a cite on scientific misconduct, the subject of this article, which not only uses "Dulbeccos law", but defines it in relation to scientific misconduct. "Dulbeccos law" is not the subject of this article, so "notability" is not an issue. Not that it is not notable, just that this is not an issue here. Besides, somehow, I get the impression that no matter what cite I came up with, you would find some objection to it.Pproctor 02:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Notability is an issue here and everywhere on Wikipedia. If "Dulbecco's law" is not notable, then it should not be mentioned on Wikipedia. As far as sourcing goes, I'd like to remind you that you've only come up with one source: a single-sentence mention in someone's lecture. I feel that that source insufficiently shows the law's notability, and if it's notable you can find either more or better sources. I don't know where you get the impression that I shoot sources down like crazy for illegitimate reasons. TomTheHand 12:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

An old and a recent example of scientific fraud. written by this author at this instutution which specifically-defines "Dulbecco's Law" is not a sufficient source? It would be in any review article I know. It always astounds me what people come up with on Wikipedia...Pproctor 16:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

That's what I said. A one-sentence definition mentioned in passing in someone's Powerpoint presentation is insufficient assertion of notability. If the law is notable, you can do better. Not every piece of verifiable information is notable enough for inclusion. Per Wikipedia's notability guidelines, "A notable topic has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works that are reliable and independent of the subject." TomTheHand 16:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Er, IIRC, "notability" is a only a criteria for establishing a separate article, particularly a bio. Been there, done that. I don't have time or inclination to fight that fight right now WRT "Dulbecco's law". I haven't looked recently, but I do not recall "notability" required for the content of another article such as Science misconduct, NPOV and verifiability being met, naturally.Pproctor 17:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

While it's true that notability guidelines are for separate articles, if it's an obscure phrase then it really isn't worth including. If it's not obscure then it should be possible to find information about it. I think the way to go here is probably by determining consensus on whether Dulbecco's law should be mentioned, rather than you and I continuing to duke it out over this. I'll post a request on RFC. TomTheHand 18:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I have come here from the RfC page (I just put in a request for comment on the Electroconvulsive therapy article and thought, in fairness, I should respond to one and yours looked a bit more interesting than Decapitation and Adolescent sexual behaviour). I don't think it is in keeping with Wiki guidelines to discuss something that hasn't been published and it doesn't look as if the lecture has been published. On the other hand, if there has been even just one published mention of Dulbecco's Law....Staug73 16:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm shocked that this issue could possibly be more interesting than Decapitation Adolescent sexual behaviour ;-) I think there's reasonable consensus that Dulbecco's law is insufficiently sourced and it should be possible to find published mentions. I'm removing pending better sourcing. TomTheHand 19:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Consensus? Where? The cite I give is perfectly good and, as I note above, is the online version of a university lecture on science fraud. BTW, you may not be aware, but these days many scientific publications do not appear except on-line.Pproctor 02:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It is unfortunate that we have to rehash these old arguments again. The cite is not perfectly good. Some may be concerned because it was not published in a peer reviewed journal (neither paper nor online), but what I personally care about is the fact that there aren't more sources. It is a claimed definition of science lingo, so I accept it may well not appear in many articles. But it would have to appear somewhere, like in blogs. But blogs and articles all refer to the "Matthew effect in science" instead. Rl 07:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I have placed a notice about this discussion over on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Maths, science, and technology. When I posted the article on Dulbecco's law, there were several on-line references on Google in addition to the lecture I posted, but these seem to have disappeared. It may be posted, but in a non-indexible form such as "old" pdf. Outside computor-related stuff, most things from before about 1995 are. E.g., the "citation amnesia" links in this very article.

A minimal on-line presence does not mean much in some areas. Remember, this is "folk-wisdom", a la List of medical abbreviations. These are well-known, but mostly listed nowhere on-line and probably in no easily-accessible book, though they do get hauled out in the doctor shows <Grin>. Yet I see no NOR objections being raised. If they were, the article would largely disappear.

In contrast, I give a perfectly good cite to a published university lecture from a recognized expert on the sociology of scientific research who precisely defines Dulbecco's law in the context of Scientific misconduct.

A reasonable rule of thumb for NOR is whether something would be a legitimate cite in a review article on the subject. This citation would be. In contrast, other things acceptible here ( such as newspaper articles ) for "verifiability" generally would not be proper citations in a formal review.Pproctor 18:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Consensus

User talk:Jimbo Wales "Consensus is not a vote, or an appeal to popularity. 100 people citing WP:FRINGE derived references versus 1 person citing recognised impartial authorities (do I need mention Flat Earth vs. accepted scientific authority?) will result in the consensus going with the one. No consensus will result if both parties find good authorative sources to back their contention/interpretation. Unless an admin or 'crat can find a third authority which has already weighed the two arguments and has come up with a definitive answer then that admin/'crat must come to the verdict of no consensus. If consensus cannot be reached, then WP:NPOV demands that both viewpoints, properly referenced, should be included in an article. Where the existence of the article itself in debate, and an admin cannot decide on the consensus, then it probably needs to be taken to whichever area of dispute is appropriate and examined there. Again, this may not bring about a definitive result but that is always a possibility with a wiki. In the end, take issue to every forum possible until the processes are exhausted. If there is still no consensus then there is unlikely to be one. Admins are part of the process, and not an entity that decides upon it. Being more or less brave is not part of the remit.LessHeard vanU 08:37, 13 May 2007 (UTC)"Pproctor 02:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improper assignment of Discovery credit

As far as I see this artcile is about scientific misconduct and the disputed section "Improper credit can also be inadvertently-assigned." is rather a side remark and not really central to the article itself.Tikiwont 10:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

There is a spectrum here. E.g., what if improper discovery credit is assiged because the recipient himself has not seen fit to assign proper credit. Such citation amnesia is arguably the most common type of science fraud.Pproctor 18:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I would just focus first on the contribution on the Emmeche presentation to the main topic of this article since both treat mainly scientific fraud. It seems to me, that the current article introduction has taken some inspiration from there, but it is not (yet) cited as reference, and I’d say an article mentioning citation amnesia should aim at the highest standards here (also on the formal level). If this presentation is considered a good source for the main topic it should be cited. If it is not considered a good source on Scientific misconduct, it cannot serve as citation for a on-line mention of some Dubbecco’s law. Obviously, also the current article introduction should then be cited differently or rewritten.

If it stays inside, it should simply link to a place in wikipedia where the phenomen is explained further and Matthew_effect#Sociology seems to be doing precisley that. In the fraud article itself there is no need to add an additional external link, just because there may also be a diferent name. If more than the current sources could be found, one may discusss if Matthew_effect#Sociology should indicate Dulbecco's law as a common alternate name or have it redirect there, but here we're just disgressing.--Tikiwont 10:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

First, the Matthew effect is general. Dulbecco's law is the special case with respect to scientific discovery. Likewise, the university lecture on science fraud I give a link to includes improper (even if inadvertant) misassignment of discovery credit. So its seem appropriate to also do so here.Pproctor

Please double check the section I was referring to and don’t get attached to words:

Dulbeccos Law: “Credit for a scientific discovery generally goes to the most famous, not the first, discoverer”

Matthew effect: “Eminent scientists will often get more credit than a comparatively unknown researcher even if their work is similar; it also means that credit will usually be given to researchers who are already famous”

In his presentation Emmeche refers to this phenomenon as Dulbecco’s Law, but the name doesn’t really matter so much, as he immediately explains the meaning. The current wikipedia refers to it as Matthew effect, offering a wikilink to explore the meaning. Adding a second name or a different meaning in the main text would just be confusing and its notability should not be discussed here. Possible alternative names such as Dulbecco’s Law or variants of the concept itself should all be addressed in the respective main article’s discussion taking into account this AfD discussion.

If the Emmeche presentation is already a properly cited viable source for Scientific misconduct, the article itself should still lead to the relavnt wiki section of Matthew effect section, but I would the see no harm in mentioning in a foot note that the quoted author refers to the phenomenon as Dulbecco effect.

I will try out this solution, simply to better source the current artcile version, pending consensus. Please post concise comments (hear who is talking ;-)) below.

Finally, if the whole idea of credit going to the already famous has merit, it might be self-verifying and has probably been discovered first by some now unknown person.

Simply stated: The Matthew effect is the general rule, and covers such things as "The rich get richer". The latter obviously has nothing to do with basic scientific research<grin>. Dulbecco's law is a restatement of the Matthew effect relative to credit for scientific discoveries. Which is why I make an issue about it.

Also, by the usual and customary rules as I understand them (and I have been forced to become something of an (er) expert<G> on Wikipedia:concensus and what it is not), claims of a concensus here are rather premature. But that is a discussion for another time and one we can hopefully avoid.Pproctor 03:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

No claim on consensus was intendent from my side. Below section is intendent to gather opinions where we stand with refenence to assessing the mentioned source in general and how to treat its particular restatement of the Mathew effect. --Tikiwont 18:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

This is what I am talking about (from the "history" part of the article): "19:49, 8 May 2007 TomTheHand (Talk | contribs) (18,352 bytes) "There seems to be reasonable consensus that Dulbecco's law is insufficiently sourced."Pproctor 00:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, everyone but you seems to agree on that, and that's as close to consensus as we are likely to ever get. Look, I really wanted to keep the article on Dulbecco's law in the first place, so I spent quite some time looking for sources. There is plenty of discussion of the phenomenon where it's pretty much consistently called the "Matthew effect in science". Most of us are not comfortable adding a term based on one powerpoint slide. Rl 07:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dulbecco's Law, continued

With due respect. I provide a powerpoint slide from a review on scientific misconduct from a professor at a Danish University whom we can reasonably believe is an authority on the subject. Likewise, as I note in the main article, the Danes are acknowledged leaders in this area. In the intellectual tradition I was raised in, this is quite sufficent to establish the existence of the term. Moreover, the review defines the term exactly.

Again, this is a folk term. Having heard this term several times in my scientific career, I have no doubt it exists, NOR by itself, but a fact the review supports. The one "priviledge" granted experts on Wikpedia is that we are acknowledged to know the cites. A simple newspaper article referring to "Dulbecco's law" would, under the usual and customary rules here, be sufficient. This is much more authoritative than that. BTW, as you may note, I do not indulge in useless edit wars.Pproctor 02:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

From Wikipedia:Attribution: "Reliable sources are credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand. How reliable a source is depends on context. In general, the most reliable sources are books and journals published by universities; mainstream newspapers; and university level textbooks, magazines and journals that are published by known publishing houses."Pproctor 06:33, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I am Claus Emmeche, the author of the powerpoint slides show from 2006 that was referred to, and that included the side comment on Dulbecco's law. This is just to say, in agreement with what is just stated in the Attribution, that (a) I don't consider such slides as a reliable citation sources on par with published journal articles: No strict work of revision or criticism (e.g., demanding a cource for the various claims) went into their production, thus slides are to be compared with a teacher's writing something on the blackboard at a lecture, and as everybody knows, lecture notes are often simply consided as supporting the spoken word. (b) I am not an expert sociologist of science, but a generalist in science studies and philosophy of biology in a field continous with theoretical biology. (c) I don't consider the term Dulbecco's law as being important, and looking back at the course for ph.d. students I taught in November 2006, I don't even remember myself from where I got the remark but here is a fuller quote from slide no.3:

QUOTE START: "Plagiarism: the act of taking credit (or attempting to take credit) for the work of another. The appropriation of (1) experimental design or (2) data or (3) experimental material or (4) credit for work that belongs to others; e.g., ”Citation amnesia": failure to credit other/prior discoverers, to give an impression of priority. Maybe the most common type of misconduct. Improper credit can also be inadvertently-assigned, cf. Dulbecco's law = "Credit for a scientific discovery generally goes to the most famous, not the first, discoverer”." QUOTE END.

(d)The whole article should be organized somewhat better, and it would be nice to have input from more sources due to scholars on the history of scientific misconduct and also sources of philosophers of science (for the later, especially regarding norms and standards for excellent versus good versus mediocre science as one dimension in contrast to the dimension of good scientific practice versus fraud and misconduct). I would like to do more on this, but I can't do it now. Claus Emmeche 17:07, 5 February 2008.

[edit] Proposed compromise

Well I've tried above mentioned version out, but the slide show, does not seem to have a publication year nor would I be sure how to cite it. So consider it as experimental. The articles citations are rather heterogeneous, anyway. --Tikiwont 16:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Better explanation: why Wilmutt and Mashelkar?

The list of cases of misconduct, because it contains no explanation whatsoever, is not very helpful. The links are to the biographies of people, not to descriptions of scientific misconduct.

Why is Ian Wilmutt even listed? He's accused of claiming more credit than he deserved for valid scientific work, at worst. That's not scientific misconduct.

Why is Raghunath Anant Mashelkar listed? As far as I can tell, all he's even accused of is not hewing to the Communist view on patents.

Those are only two examples. It's most confusing. CarlFink 16:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

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