Talk:Samael

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Judaism Portal Samael is part of WikiProject Judaism, a project to improve all articles related to Judaism. If you would like to help improve this and other articles related to the subject, consider joining the project. All interested editors are welcome. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject Judaism articles.
Project Judaism To-do: edit purge watch Here are some tasks you can do: Requests: Jewish and Biblical Units of Measurement or some such name, to include material of Ancient Hebrew units of measurement but also Talmudic units and use in Halacha (a la the Hebrew Wikipedia article he:מידות ומשקלות תורניים) Collaboration of the week { Cleanup: Jewish mythology - needs to be rewritten to be inline with our other mythology articles. Expand: Yom Ha'atzmaut - quite short for an article of such importance Wikiversity: School of Jewish Studies. Part of the new open content university, Wikiversity. Stubs: Category:Judaism stubs, Category:Tanakh stubs, Category:Synagogue stubs Update: Portal:Judaism is WikiProject Judaism's frequently updated portal. You can help make this the best portal on Wikipedia. Look at the talk page to see how you can help. Template loop detected: Template:WikiProject Judaism
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

	Occult Portal Samael is supported by WikiProject Occult in order to expand, improve, and standardize articles related to the occult. Feel free to edit the article attached to this talk page and/or become a participating member.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

	Kabbalah Portal This article is supported by the Kabbalah WikiProject. This project provides a central approach to Kabbalah-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

	Christianity Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
Assessment comments This article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

[edit] Samael does not mean 'Poison of God'

Article states that "SAM" is Hebrew for venom/poison, but this is not accurate. "SAM" means drug. Old texts sometimes refer to Poison as "SAM HA-MAVET", meaning the drug of death, but there are at least two special words for poison ("RAAL" and "ROSH") and at least one word for venom ("ERES").

I changed the relevant sentence, but perhaps it is better removed entirely.

--79.179.102.33 20:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Removed from the article as unverifiable (spectacularly fails the Google test — one hit for "sammael ansi artist", which no longer exists):

Sammael is the handle of an ANSI artist who was active in the scene from 1994 to 1999. He was a member of many high profile groups including Samsara, FiRE, CiA, Rile, and Anemia.

Uncle G 16:39, 2005 Jan 7 (UTC)

Many if not most ANSI artists are impossible to google as the web wasn't what it is today when the ANSI scene was alive. This link this linkshows much of his work:

Samael has veered very very very far from what would usually be labeled black metal. Progressive metal is a more accepted label, although the music is naturally unclassifiable.

I edited out some of the parts concerning Lucifer and a explanation of why Lucifer is not Samael, although informative, it seemed to be written in a way that a great deal about Lucifer and not Samael, who this article is about, so I cut some of it.Xuchilbara 00:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Xuchilbara I think this article could be more clearly written, as things are very unclear. That's the main problem I see. (Hijou)

[edit] Samael in other traditions

"Samael in Kabbalah is the Qliphoth corresponding to the sephirah Hod. It means "the poison of God", the liar and the jugglers, and the demons associated with it are described as dull-yellow, demon-headed dog-like monsters.[citation needed]

The Qliphoth is the unbalanced aspect of a particular sephirah. Hod is the sephirah concerned with rationalisation, intellectualism and the occult, that gives form to ideas, as opposed to Netzach, that is raw energy, the ability of passion to transcend form. Hod must be balanced with Qliphoth to prevent dullness that follows from complete rationalization of the world, such as that of the sceptic who believes he knows everything and dismisses many potentially joyous experiences out of hand. For this reason, Hod becomes Samael, the Liar, the Juggler, who through clever words and rationalisations denies the existence of anything higher or greater.[citations needed]"

I've been told that Samael is actually attributed to the sephira, Geburah. According to Gustav Davidson in "A Dictionary of Angels" on page 255. "In Waite, The Holy Kabbalah, p.255, Samael is characterized as the "severity of God" and is listed as 5th of the archangles of the world of Briah. Here he corresponds to the sefira Geburah." Samael and is also attributed to Mars, Geburah's planet. EGGO 05:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Samael does preside over Gevurah or Din as Archangel, and is attributed to Mars in this guise. Since the Prince of the Left-Hand Emanation had an ominous and dangerous aspect, however, the name was often written differently as Camael of Kamael or Khamael. Note that the Hebrew letter Kaph resembles a Samekh that has not been closed at the right. Whether this is a deliberate avoidance of writing the title in full or merely the result of bad transcription, I do not know. That said, yes, the cohorts of the Kelippot answering to the eighth emanation, Hod, are ascribed as "Samael" as well, though I suspect this was a matter of Mathers or Kircher or whoever either getting muddled or glossing over the true attribution as a blind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.213.144.148 (talk) 02:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional Samaels

"In the first game in the Silent Hill series, Dahlia Gillespie, an antagonist, refers to a symbol as being the "Mark of Samael", which led many players to believe that the entity, refered to in the third game as "The God", was actually Samael. This was disproved when, later in the series, it is revealed that the mark is actually the "Seal of Metatron", as well as the fact that the incarnation of "The God" in the first game resembles Baphomet, not Samael."

A citation is needed here because Baphomet and Samael are a reference to the samething. I am not basing this off a video game but the occult itself. Although, I think the game makes this all pretty clear. Either some of you are over complicating and estimating a pretty simple storyline or are deliberately trying to misguide people like occultist tend to try and do. Your argument between Baphomet and Samael is an oxymoron along with several other peoples comments here. Here is just one reference. [1] Although, this site is incorrect about the traceable dated use of the inverted pentacle in rituals involving a symbolic sacrificial goat. It still serves its purpose here.--Theseus23 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

This is was this article has to say about the fiction Samael, yet the account of Samael in the Silent Hill Mosters article is different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Silent_Hill_monsters

"Samael - The Incubus harbored within Alessa Gillespie that acts as the destructive hand of God, killed by Harry in Silent Hill 1. It is speculated whether or not Samael exists, or is just a lie told to Harry by Dahlia so she could trick him into helping her. Why she believed telling him this would get him to help her is anyone's guess, since Harry does not appear to be heavily versed in religion and demonology. In any case, it appears Dahlia was in fact telling the truth, the mark that appears throughout Silent Hill is that of Samael's, NOT the mark of Metatron. The Mark of Samael is a triangle within a twin circle that is filled with symbols - the mark we see in the games - whilst Metatron is a series of interconnected circles and lines that bear no resemblance to the mark we actually see."

Which one of these is correct?

I don't know, but neither of them deserve that much space in the article. Snip:

...which led many players to believe that the entity, referred to in the third game as "The God", was actually Samael. This was disproved when, later in the series, it is revealed that the mark is actually the "Seal of Metatron", as well as the fact that the incarnation of "The God" in the first game resembles Baphomet, not Samael. However, in Silent Hill 3 there is mention that those who despised the Cult's deity identified it with a demon (Samael)so Samael could be considered an outside name given to the deity.

I hope this offends no one, but that's a full paragraph explaining the plot of a video game. --Mgreenbe 00:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Again, Mgreenbe your stating that oxymoron between Samael and Baphomet.--Theseus23 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

yep. And Metatron is said carries on a ceaseless battle with Samael. (and Alessa is using the seal of Metatron to kill "the god". So speculation on rather the incubus inside her is Samael remains.) 67.78.156.66 16:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

--RoninDH Some have stated that Samael means “venom of God” or “the blind god”. Despite that belief, the name “Samael” does not have anything to do with venom, poison or blindness. With its roots in Mesopotamia, the name is constructed of two parts--SAMA and EL, to form SAMA.EL. The term "Sama" equates with peace or harmony, while the term "El" notes divinity or the status of being a lord or god. This can be readily observed in the construction of angelic names such as Michael (MICHA.EL), Gabriel (GABRI.EL), etc. Of course, the word "angel" itself contains it (ANG.EL). Therefore SAMA.EL means "Lord of Peace", not Venom Of/To God.

RoninDH, that is completely inaccurate. What "some people" have stated as you say is completely true.--Theseus23 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about the Mesopotamian "sama", but I can tell you that the word "angel" does not come from Hebrew, but from the Greek "angelos", meaning "messenger".

The Hebrew equivalent, BTW, is "MALACH", which carries the same meaning (messenger) and has nothing to do with "EL".

First off, the opposers of the Order in Silent Hill were said to give demonic names to the God. Memo in SH3:

"There is no religion that has

remained unchanged from the

moment it was founded.

This one is no exception.

When this religion fell into the

hands of immigrants, it was deeply

influenced by their own original

Christian beliefs.

For example, the traditional

representatives of these primal

gods may be given the names and

descriptions of Christian angels.

Thus shared characteristics begin

to appear.

(There is also one rare example

of the chief deity, "Creator of

Paradise" or "Lord of Serpents

and Reeds", being dubbed with

a demon's name. Of course, this

was not done by believers, but

by their opponents.)"

Lastly, we have that Dahlia didn't even know that the seal of Metatron was beig used by Alessa at all.

Then as far as Venom of God is concerned, could you cite the source were Samael's name does not translate to 'venom of God'? Because you know, Samael, for being one of the serpents in the Garden of Eden, has a relation to venom. [2] "Lord of Peace" is just simply too farfetched, not too mention Samael is the angel partly to blame for the fall of mankind. he also charcged with impregnanting Eve with Cain in his serpent form.[3] And as you know Silent Hill is full of Kabbalah, so I would think they don't have the idea that he's "nice".

Xuchilbara 18:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Where do some of you get some of this stuff??? Although, at first it might be kind of difficult to understand I think the base of the plot isn't that difficult to grasp. Too much over thinking on such a simple message and formula.

Ian Samael is a main character in the webcomic Errant Story. --Kestenvarn

"*In the game series Silent Hill, Samael is the demonic entity worshipped by the cult hidden in the town of Silent Hill, whose soul was ritually bound into the bodies of two sisters. His power is believed to be behind much of the series' supernatural happenings.

Those parts are entirely false. In fact I have no idea who the "two sisters" are or where that story came from, it isn't in game. Nor does the cult worship Samael, because their God is a female Solar diety. Xuchilbara 16:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Silent Hill

I decided to make a entire talk tribute page to the weird Silent Hill fan based speculations regarding Samael that seem to just eternally keep popping up here. If anybody wants to contest that on why its being removed and how factually inaccurate or accurate some of info, please do tell.

"

• Samael is the Demon God Ruler of Silent Hill In the First and Third Silent Hill Video Games For The Playstation 1 and Playstation 2. The Cult Group known as The Order worships him and they summoned him to the town. Samael Is Defeated by Harry Mason (the main character of the first Silent Hill) in the Good and Good+ ending of the Game.He Returns in the Third Game, Silent Hill 3 but is Defeated again for a final time by Harry Mason's Daughter Heather Morris (Cheryl Mason). Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown. He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place."

This was taken out because:

• 1. Samael is never mentioned in Silent Hill series, he's only mentioned in 1 through the "Mark of Samael".[4] The games and extra works do not state Samael's overall importance and the fact remains that he is only mentioned in Sh1 and does not appear anywhere else, not even in other documents.
• 2. See above document from the game of Silent Hill 3, in which God was not given demon names except by opposers.[5] Furthermore the God of the Order is a female Solar deity, not male as Samael is, obviously. And the SH creators stated that the supposed "Mark of Samael" has little or no profound signafigance and falls under the catagory of word play by Dahlia.[6] Any Silent Hill fan would know that its hard to trust everything Dahlia says as she is a known manipulater through words and attempts to decieve Harry multiple times.
• 3 The God Harry defeats in one is based of the image of God that Dahlia had, or more accurately the image of Baphomet. Its labeled as a incubus and dream demon by more than one official source. Samael is not a part of this incubi-succbea/night/dream class of demons, although his wife Lilith certinly is.
• 4. In the third game, the God that Heather defeats is made after the image of God that Claudia had. This is image is of Alessa and all the monster's parts are female, how could she be even remotely considered to be Samael?[7]
• 5. Samael and other Jewish figures have nothing to do with Silent Hill 2. They are not even mentioned. "Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown." That is speculation.
• 6."He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place." More speculation.

Xuchilbara 19:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Samael in the Christian Bible

Has Samael ever been mentioned in any translation/version of the Christian Bible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.181.168.245 (talk) 09:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No. Samael has not appeared in the OT (Unless you considered him Satan as Kabbalah does) nor the Nt. Xuchilbara (talk) 21:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No. Samael is not mentioned in the Christian Bible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabbaoth (talk • contribs) 15:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)