Talk:Roy Masters (commentator)
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Obviously one of Roy Master's hypnotized roybots is in charge of this page and the truth is being erased by him. Roy Master's is a very sophisticated scammer. He preys on people judeo-christian fears. His "meditation" tapes are nothing other an advanced hypnosis that lock his followers into having "faith" in his word. Since the early 1960's Roy Master's has used his scamming ability to support his right wing agenda. His son now runs a media right wing propaganda machine which lies and distorts the truth. We have nothing to fear but Roy Masters scamming itself.
00:17, 14 October 2007 (UTC) Henry Nichols, Los Angeles, CA 10-12-07
What's new
I removed many unsourced comments with heated personal opinions from this talk page, after providing ample warning I would do so. Also removed several sections of this talk page: I removed the section about music because there was no evidence that the incidental music selections of the radio show indicated Roy's personal tastes in music. The comments that Roy "despises all music" and that TRN has to use generic library music because of a refusal to pay ASCAP and BMI licensing fees are both unsourced, so I removed them as well. Removed two sections that simply consisted of comments about a lack of citations in previous version of the article. Removed non-current comment about previous edit revisions. Removed non-current comment about semi-protection of the page. Removed comment about title change as the title has been changed.
Please help by making these contributions here on the talk page:
If I can get some help gathering the relevant source material, I will do further rewrites and extensions to the body of the article. I would like it to reflect editorial consensus based on verifiable references, and to be neither a tribute nor a vilification, but a neutral presentation of the man's life and work. If I don't see community interest in organizing and discussing this material within the next week or two, I'll proceed with my own versions.
1. Gather biographical information (NOT about Roy's opinions) which should be included in the article. As far as I can tell, the open items are his uncle's knighthood, a paragraph about Brighton Academy, and a clearer understanding of Roy's involvement in management of TRN.
2. Group together comments about alleged influences on Roy's philosophy: Marcus Aurelius, Nietzsche, Hegel, Marx, Schopenhauer, Hubbard, Foucault... are there others? What would be especially helpful are specific, verifiable quotes that illustrate both Roy's opinion or theme, and the corresponding quote from the influence.
3. Make sections about the main themes in Roy's philosophy to better describe it. These sections should include only a summary of what Roy says, not opposition to it. Sections could include:
- Resentment within an individual's emotions; psychological trauma; the nature of sin
- Relationships between the sexes; marriage and family
- Herd mentality and mass hypnosis
- The public sphere: economics, education, politics, history
- Religious component of his teachings
4. Collect comments about Roy's alleged negative influence into a well organized review of major criticisms against his work. The major themes of critics appear to be:
- misogynism
- cultism
5. Other material such as appropriate "see also" references.
If someone could give examples of appropriate uses of radio transcripts as a source about a talk show host, that would be helpful.
VisitorTalk 17:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Roy Masters Background
Roy Masters is an author of 16 books, a counselor, Christian minister, mentor, philosopher, and spiritual guide. He is the founder of the Foundation for Human Understanding, a non-profit foundation. [[1]] He is the founder of a private school, Brighton Academy, Pre-K to 9th grade in Grants Pass, Oregon. [2] Larry R. Holmgren. 1-16-07.
"In 1960 Roy Masters started America's first conservative talk radio show on KTYM in Los Angeles, California. Roy Masters and his "Advice Line" radio program continue today as an institution on radio. "Advice Line" is currently (2007) broadcast nationwide on 130 radio stations and available via the internet." [3] 1-16-07, Larry R. Holmgren, Long Beach, CA.
- Masters' radio show was apolitical until the late 1970s. Any tapes of a Masters radio program from the 1960s or most of the 1970s would show nothing of any political content. Not until Jimmy Carter became president did Masters talk about politics. However, if one wanted to say "In 1960 Roy Masters started America's first talk show advocating violent misogyny and violence towards women as a positive good", one would be more on the money. 76.79.213.82 (talk) 00:47, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Synopsis of Masters opinions and philosophy
I have removed material indicated as being from Rob Harvey. If someone would like to put the material back, I'll leave it if this time it comes along with a proper citation and some indication of who Rob Harvey is. Some of the material seemed to me to be useful commentary on Roy's opinion, but it's not encyclopedic without a citation. VisitorTalk 04:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed PrairieDog's comments, some of which are irrelevant to a discussion of Roy (Nietzsche's influence on Nazism, speculation on whether or not other editors have read Nietsczhe), and the remainder of which appear to be your original research or personal opinion without any citations to verifiable sources ("Masters is well read," "references to poets and philosophers," "his views on resentment can be found in Nietszsche...," "quite similar to views held by Scientology," "I suspect that...", "he seemed to get real pleasure..."). "I can also verify his statements" and "I can attest... he claimed that..." might be accurate, but one person's recollections are not encyclopedic. VisitorTalk 04:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Roy. Just Human
I removed original research or personal opinions of "Roybot Dave." Speculation on "I think the problem...," "he became convinced...," "is stuck in a mess" might be insightful, but one person's opinion without citations is not encyclopedic. If there is a third party source that compares and contrasts Roy's work with that of Lyndon LaRouche, that would be worth including in an encyclopedia article, but your own personal attraction or gratitude isn't. As with the other personal discussions, if there was a web site, forum, or email list dedicated to personal essays of this type, your thoughtful comments would be most apropos there - just not on an encyclopedia. VisitorTalk 04:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Larry R. Holmgren, please advise where you think Roy's "Open letter to churches" should go in the article. VisitorTalk 04:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- I think this letter included statements of religious beliefs and a defense of FHU from the charge of cultism, Hence,....Larry R. Holmgren 10:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] POV from article
I removed personal opinions about the nature of capitalism and unsourced interpretation of Roy's opinions about social structures. VisitorTalk 04:08, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Transcripts
Quoting directly from transcrtipts made by an editor or a not reputable source, fail the WP:V policy. Editors may summarize the quotes, but not cite directly in between quotes. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Psychological Insights
Roy Masters continues (in 2007) to pay to broadcast his program, "Advice Line", Monday through Friday, 10 pm to 12 midnight; in Los Angeles the two hours are a split broadcast, in reverse order, on KRLA-870AM, 11pm to 1 am. 1-15-07.
The radio show does not make mention of Masters being anything more than a spiritual guidance counselor. He has expressed general conservative beliefs such as dissapproval of gay and lesbian relationships. His conservative views also include the social position of women. Masters believes that women are emotional creatures and need to be kept away from sin by righteous men and that they are not to be in a position of power above men.
Despite the criticism about his capitalism and soliciting donations on air made by some writers in the above discussion, he is caught in two dilemmas: (1) how to finance the radio program five nights a week in many radio markets across our nation without commercial sponsors and (2) to limit his advice to the psychological realm while avoiding the political arena which would then risk having the IRS revoke his (FHU's) non-profit status.
Yes, I need citations. I have some by broadcast date. Others are from his books. Below are some quotes and paraphrases of some of Roy Masters' messages:
- The Divine Order in a family: the man (the husband) looks to God and his conscience for guidance, the woman looks to the man for guidance. Your choice is to love God or play God. June 5, 2002
- Sigmund Freud's Question: What do women want? Answer: Women want power. Question: How do they get it? Answer: By seducing men. This is why men should not have sex outside of marriage. Because, then the woman is in charge, not the man, as is the proper order. To get more sex the man becomes either a bully or a wimp. Both of these roles are hated by the woman.
- Male-female relations: "The woman is always right, the man must always be right." (This means that the woman thinks/feels she is right but the man must have the character and integrity to be right.) If he is wrong, he must admit that he was wrong, then he is right again. The woman won't admit she was wrong. She will change the subject! The woman needs loving correction.
- Marriage: The man must love truth and right and God more than he loves her. Otherwise he is not worthy of her love. The man must be the source of love (compassion) in a marriage. If he needs love (nurture), if he (psychologically) needs the woman then he is not a man. He is a boy looking for a mother.Larry R. Holmgren 00:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
- Definition of love: Love is not lust, dependence, need, ...
- Love: There are two sides of love: to love and not hate. --- Roy Masters, 3-19-02. Love and don’t hate, else you are separated from god. When you hate you are separated from what love is. --- Roy Masters, 12-2-02, #1776. For God is love. Muslim societies know how to treat their women ; America was attacked because we deserved it. We were stupid enough to let women have equal rights. ---Roy Masters, 9-12-01
- Resentment: Roy Masters posits the emotions of hate and resentment as central to many of our psychological problems, e.g., alcoholism, homosexuality, nicotine addiction, ....[The desire for an] Abortion is from hatred of the man who used them and abandoned them. --- Roy Masters, 3-20-02. Hate leads to lust. That’s why we have sex and violence. --- Roy Masters, 3-20-02. #K1451 The loser’s hatred is resentment. --- Roy Masters, 3-11-02. Resentment is the handmaiden of the ego. --- Roy Masters, 3-12-02. When you … fall to resentment, you lose your humanity. --- Roy Masters, 3-14-02. When you get upset by (the other), you lose your power. --- Roy Masters, 3-14-02. Resentment is a hypnotic emotion. Every resentment carries a message that acts through you. Roy Masters, 9-5-02. You cannot conquer injustice with anger. --- 9-25-02. You must not wallow in the resentment against injustice. –Roy Masters, 9-23-02. Your soul, responding to temptation is no longer … If you resent evil, it joins you to the evil. 'Resent not evil' is the correct translation. --- Roy Masters, 9-23-02. It’s hard to drop the anger because, in our eyes, we are made right by it. ---Roy Masters, 10-14-02. (holding on to) anger is the wrong way to be right. --- Roy Masters, …Resentment is a sin, it separates you from your creator, it puffs you up with judgment. Love of the world is hatred of God, hatred of the world is hatred of God. --- Roy Masters, 7-22-02. I hurt but I don’t hate. If you judge, the hurt doesn’t go away…. --- Roy Masters, 11-19-02. #1763.
- Meditation: Roy Masters recommends meditation to clear one's mind and to listen to one's conscience.[4] Most of our activities are to escape from our conscience. Be silent and let your conscience catch up with you; realize that there is something wrong in the way you are living; feel the pain, and then do better. Although I have not practiced it, his description of his meditation technique is similar to the hand-levitation method of hypnotic induction.
- Every bully is a coward. This is how Adolph Hitler was able to rule an entire society. Germany was a hierarchical society, full of bullies, where each bully was a coward to the bully above him. Thus, everyone in the whole social hierarchy could line up like bar magnets from top to bottom! In contrast, America, then, had individuals of good character and integrity.
- He traces problems between men and women back to the archetypal first man and woman, Adam and Eve and their Original Sin. He calls Eve, the unloved woman, while Adam is the failed man. This is explained in his book, The Adam and Eve Sindrome.
- Humans are spiritual creatures that have devolved, through sin.
- People are hypnotized by trauma. When we are hypnotized we make excuses for ourselves that are not the real reasons for our behavior.
- You don’t have free will. You are either a servant to what is good or you are a slave to what is wrong. --- Roy Masters, 12-15-04. You can rebel against God but you cannot rebel against the Devil. Once you are corrupted, you are changed. The Devil has you. Your corrupt friends support you in your corruption. We are "outdividuals," not individuals, when we are directed by our environment, and not by our inner character.
- Gambling: Anyone in his right mind doesn’t gamble. The gambler is seduced into wanting what is not his. He has lost his relationship with God. --- Roy Masters, 3-12-02.
- The righteous live by faith. --- Roy Masters, 12-2-02, #1776.
- Animals live by instinct. We live by intuition. --- Roy Masters, 3-14-02. Animals have no consciousness of being alive. They are living machines. They are expendable. You can be kind to a cat, but don’t get your love from it. --- Roy Masters, 3-20-02
- The spirit that created the universe is inside you. Realize it before you die. --- Roy Masters, 8-13-02.
- God doesn't love the way you are (as some religious leaders say) but he loves you from the way you are.
- He offers the Soviet Manual on Brainwashing [5] on his website to show how it is done and is being done in America!
- To be continued, 1-15-07. Larry R. Holmgren. Larry R. Holmgren 03:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Roy's website is www.FHU.com
In February 1992 Roy Masters sent out a 5-page "Open Letter to Churches" [6] to clarify his beliefs. Larry R. Holmgren 01:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
- I shall make another attempt to summarize and concisely quote Roy Masters with references.
Roy Masters is blunt. His advice centers on dropping one's anger, valuing the conscious as a spiritual guide, realizing that lust is not love, and that women seduce men to gain power over them.
He offers clear distinctions. "Men want women who make them feel good instead of wanting a good woman." 3-1-07, Advice Line.
"You can rebel against God but you cannot rebel against the Devil." ---Roy Masters, Advice Line, 2-28-07. Larry R. Holmgren 12:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Roy Masters does not hate women. He has a definite view of the role of women in society that he calls the divine order, from God to man to woman. A woman needs a man she cannot control. --- Roy Masters on Advice Line, 3-12?-07.
"A woman lives by confusing you and entangling you." ---Roy Masters, Advice Line, 3-23-07.
"Anytime you get a sense of worth from a woman, you're not a man." ---Roy Masters, Advice Line, 3-26-07. Larry R. Holmgren 06:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
[Men], Don't fall for the first woman who loves you, who lies to you, who lies with you. --- Roy Masters on Advice Line, 3-13-07. Larry R. Holmgren 06:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Roy Masters' views on righteousness are stated as aphorisms: "The righteous live by faith." "You don’t have free will. You are either a servant to what is good or you are a slave to what is wrong. --- Roy Masters, 12-15-04.
Roy Masters posits the emotions of hate and resentment as central to many of our psychological problems, e.g., alcoholism, homosexuality, and nicotine addiction. "If you resent evil, it joins you to the evil." "'Resent not evil' is the correct translation." "Resentment is a sin, it separates you from your creator, it puffs you up with judgment." "If you judge, the hurt doesn’t go away." "It’s hard to drop the anger because, in our eyes, we are made right by it." [Holding on to] anger is the wrong way to be right." "I hurt but I don’t hate."
Roy Masters holds firm conservative values in love and marriage. In a marriage "the man must love truth and right and God more than he loves her. Otherwise, he is not worthy of her love." "There are two sides of love: to love and not hate." "Love and don’t hate, else you are separated from God. When you hate you are separated from what love is. For God is love." "Love of the world is hatred of God, hatred of the world is hatred of God."
[edit] The Anti-Roy Masters Website
I am reviewing the website www.roymasters.com.
- There is a link to that site in the article. As we don't have verifiable evidence to validate its claims, I am removing your discussion of them here. VisitorTalk 04:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] FHU
I removed unsourced speculation that FHU has a "mission and impact" beyond its distribution of Roy's publications, radio shows, and Sunday lectures. If there is verifiable evidence of such a broader impact, please include the citation. VisitorTalk 04:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Anonymous editor
I removed several month old comments about a reversion to vandalism of the page. I also removed speculation that there is a need for third party journalists to investigate various aspects of TRN. If there is a verifiable citation about uninvestigated aspects of TRN, that would be encyclopedic; an individual's musings that there might be such aspects is not. VisitorTalk 04:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] original insights on man/woman relations, intimidation, and meditation
I removed user Joe Reynold's original opinions about Roy's lessons - looks like a good summary, but unsourced. If you can provide a bibliographic citation that compares Linda Leonard's book with Roy's teaching, that would be encyclopedic; your conclusion that they share a key point might be true, but is your original research. VisitorTalk 04:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] British Knighthood for Uncle
Roy said (June 20, 2007) that his uncle (for whom Roy worked for in his diamond-cutting factory) was knighted for his work in rehabilitating amputees of WWI. Could someone research this (Sir Obermeister?)? Larry R. Holmgren 06:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- Is there an authoritative list of knighthoods available from some UK government website or UK newspaper archive online? VisitorTalk 08:18, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
