Talk:Romulan

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Contents 1 Romulan/Chinese parallels 2 Chinese, East Asians, Romulans, and the Cold War 3 Names in Star Trek and Connections to Real-World 4 Romulan/Roman connection 5 Black Romulans? 6 Romulan emblem 7 Split article 8 Physical strength 9 Begin2 10 Star Trek Nemesis is (not) canon 11 Empathic? 12 Empress? 13 Gray Heart 14 Pro-"Rihannsu" bias? 15 TNG/DS9 era pictures? 16 What is this about Romulan marijuana in Popular Cultur section? 17 Merge in Romulus and Remus 18 Fair use rationale for Image:Romulan Star Empire logo.png

[edit] Romulan/Chinese parallels

Um, I think it's pretty obvious that the Romulans were the ones we were supposed to associate with Russia. Go back to the very first ever appearance of Romulans, episode #9 of TOS, "Balance of Terror." They have red color schemes and call each other "Comrade." User:Yesspaz

"were written to resemble the opinion of the Americans of that time towards the Chinese government." I don't think I've ever heard this said before, can you exemplify this? How were the TOS Romulans similar to the Chinese? Pomegranate

Talk:Star Trek has a discussion going about alien species' relation to Terran societies, which may be germane here. The closest connection I'd seen between Romulus and China was the writers' use of Chinese names, such as Shinzon, which I hear is Mandarin for "heart". Anville 22:03, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"Heart" in Mandarin is xinzang (pronounced somewhat like "Shin-zong"). Close, but may be coincidentally, since as far as I remember (years of ST-watching), ST draws very little from Chinese culture. It in fact draws much more from the neighbouring Japanese and Korean cultures.

I never heard the Romanulans compared to the Chinese. One of the other ST articles on WP also compared the TOS Klingon to the Chinese. Neither comparison makes sense to me. >:-) --Menchi 03:00, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I remember John Logan (writer of NEMESIS) explaining somewhere the connection between the Chinese and the Romulans, but I can't find it. I specifically remember him mentioning something similar to the comments above for his naming Shinzon.--StAkAr Karnak 20:54, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This is all very interesting, but this is only a theory (I haven't seen a single quotation from Roddenberry so far) that has nothing to do with an encyclopaedia. Next time, try to be relevant. Good day.--Stormy Ordos 09:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese, East Asians, Romulans, and the Cold War

Put it this way: the Original Series Star Trek is in some ways supposed to be modeled after the Cold War. The Klingons are supposed to be the Cold War equivalent of the Russians. The Americans (and its allies) are supposed to be the equivalent of the Federation. The Romulans are the equivalent to the Chinese Communists. The Vulcans represent the Cold War US allies in East Asia including Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and South Vietnam. Many Americans still cannot tell the difference between Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Vietnamnese, and Chinese Minnan (Taiwanese). Just look at all those Hollywood movies and TV shows: Chinese being cast as Japanese; Japanese being cast as Chinese; Koreans being cast as Taiwanese! Even the Chinese movie Promise has Japanese and Korean actors playing Chinese. In the Original Series, an Enterprise crew member began to show prejudice against Spock when he discovered that Vulcans and Romulans apparently look alike and started to think that Spock had to be Romulan.

We Asians generally are able to distinguish ourselves, but 25% of the time we might mistake a Chinese to be a Japanese or Korean or vice versa. This might be the equivalent of Spock being viewed without suspicion in the Next Generation Romulus even though he did not sport the standard Romulan forehead ridge. (Personally, I hated the Romulan forehead ridge because it created a very confusing continuity problem between the Original Series and the Next Generation.)

The point here is that from the Original Series point of view, the best way to distingush a Romulan from a Vulcan is from the person's emotions, attitude, and behavior; otherwise, from an untrained eye they look alike. The same could be said for the different East Asian races/ political communities.

Vulcan had an isolationist movement that wanted nothing to do with the Federation. Many East Asian countries traditionally allied to the US do have movements against American involvment in their region.

Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country represented the end of the Cold War between the United States and Russia. Only the United States and China has some subtle form of rivalry and competition. The Chinese current nationalistic emphasis on the greatness of its civilization resembles the Romulan belief that it innovated everything in the universe. The fact that the Romulans never attack first but test the opponents resolve is equivalent to Chinese generals asking the US generals if they are willing to defend Taiwan if the Chinese dropped a neutron bomb in Los Angeles. Allentchang 17:01, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Here are a variety of articles found in the Internet about this subject, including one directly from the Star Trek website. Because of this, I've decided to restore the Romulan/Chinese analogy. http://www.itaweb.it/startrek/papers/coldwar.html

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Shinzon

http://scifi.about.com/od/reviews/a/kirshararev.htm

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/community/chat/archive/transcript/1355.html

http://hypatia.slashcity.org/trekshack/racetrk1.html

Quotation from the article :

'The Romulans were created by Paul Schneider, saying "it was a matter of developing a good Romanesque set of admirable antagonists . . . an extension of the Roman civilization to the point of space travel."'

Which makes me wonder how on earth some people could have thought (just because John Logan said so) that there was a connection between the Romulans and the Asian cultures (which brings another interesting point : Asians are NOT extraterrestrials; but obviously the author of this notice seems to think of his "people" as a special kind of humans that have nothing to do with the others).

[edit] Names in Star Trek and Connections to Real-World

It is very shaky ground to take a single (or a few) names in Star Trek and try to link them to real-world nations. This is because there are so many examples of names in Star Trek that closely resemble real world names, but that could not reasonably establish a connection.

For example, if Shinzon (sounds like Chinese for "heart") indicates that the Romulans are Star Trek's equivalent of Chinese, would General Chang (whose name sounds like the English for a common Chinese surname) establish that the Klingons are also Chinese?

Also:

1. Captain Tong - Klingon K'tinga sleeper ship captain from TNG. Tong is a Vietnamese/Chinese surname.

2. IKS Ning'tao and IKS Ch'tang (two Klingon Birds of Prey) - sounds Chinese

3. Prakesh (a Cardassian Galor-class cruiser) - an Asian Indian surname

4. Kumari (Andorian cruiser class) - possibly Indian also? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 162.84.203.198 (talk) 02:10, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Romulan/Roman connection

I'm not sure whether "unintentional" is the right word to describe to similarity between the Romulan and Roman Empires. As I've noted in the article, the government has similar titles: Proconsul, Praetor, Senator. So there is obviously some intent to draw on the image of Roman-style imperialism. Perhaps "analogous similarity" or something would be more apropriate. Your call, whoever wrote it originally... Pomegranate

Actually, the Star Trek web site had once postulated a theory about this. In Who Mourns for Adonais? the ancient Greek and Roman gods were revealed to be aliens that had visited Earth thousands of years ago. The theory was that these aliens visited a number of other worlds as well, including Vulcan, and perhaps Romulus as well. And I believe that would explain a great deal about why you have a planet and a race named after the god Vulcan, a society built upon the Roman Empire, and why the two homeworlds of the Romulans are named after the brothers held to be the founders of Rome

JesseG 02:52, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Black Romulans?

Another contributor claims to have seen a Black Romulan on an episode of DS9. Can anybody confirm this? Are we sure that it was a Romulan and not a Vulcan? The only kind of Romulans I've ever seen are the typical "Eurasian" looking kind. Your thoughts and memories please. 25 February 2005

The Black Romulan I saw was in the DS9 episode, "The Visionary" and was named Ruwon. According to Feitclub there was another Black Romulan in the TNG episode, "The Pegasus." -- Old Right 19:01, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Actor Michael Mack (IMDb) played Commander Sirol (Entry at Memory Alpha). I tried to find a photo online but I failed. Trust me, he's Black. --Feitclub 06:04, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Romulan emblem

Has it ever been established which part of the Romulan emblem represents which planet? Is Romulus green and Remus blue, or the other way around? — JIP | Talk 19:22, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

After watching Nemesis, I think it's safe to say Remus is anything but blue or green.

Nemesis was written by Berman and Braga (neither of them ST experts-- or masters of continuity) while the emblem was designed way back during the second season of TNG, when Remus was still undefined. Noclevername 03:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Green is used for ch'Rihan (Romulus) and Blue for ch'Havran (Remus). It is best to put any references from Nemesis out of your mind since the Remans in that movie have nothing to do with the 'real' Remans.

[edit] Split article

This article should be separated into the Star Trek race page for Romulans and the Star Trek governments page for Romulan Star Empire.... 132.205.45.148 18:02, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Valcun/Romulan split

Valcun and Romulan split around 400 A.D, this would suggest they have warp technology around that time, so shouldn't the Romulan technology be a lot more advanced than Human's?

They may have used slower than light sleeper ships, generation ships, etc. Besides, Romulus is a very conservative culture; they don't change anything unless they have to, probably including technology. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noclevername (talk • contribs) 04:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Physical strength

Does the vulcan physical strength stem from the planet having a stronger gravity than Earth? I seem to recall this being stated in TOS. If Romulus has a more similar gravity to Earth then over two thousand years their strength would have naturally deteriorated out of lack of use. Rayfire 19:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

That's what I thought. But I remember episodes with humans landing and walking on Vulcan and they were fine. Maybe I missed the part where they were injected with something or had to stay in some pressurized cabin to get used to the planet or something.

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.7 (talk) 06:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

Humans = 1 Klingons = .9 (Untrained) Vulcan and Rihannsu = 3 Evolved physiology does not atrophy, and it would take millenia for the Rihannsu to lose their "Vulcanoid" muscle advantage. There is also the fact that all of the races have long since removed themselves from physical evolution (this happens when a race starts using its intelligence to build habitats).

[edit] Begin2

I've added some comments about the Romulans in the old PC game Begin2, largely because I also added a simular entry to the Orion Syndicate entry and wanted some consistancy. This could fairly be considered of extremely minor interest by many and could be moved to the triva section, assuming it's considered worthy of keeping.

Gone already? No discussion? Well you can remove this as well.

[edit] Star Trek Nemesis is (not) canon

The policy of Paramount and the Trek producers is that all films and episodes that are produced are considered canon with no exception. It is not the policy of this encyclopedia to alter the facts of definitions on biased personal disagreements with a particular movie.

Yeah and the historically accurate Spartans were straight men. In other words, when something goes against everything that is known about a race it can be dismissed as non-canon, policies of Paramount and its Producers don't change the fact that the movie did not represent the Romulans accurately (nevermind the Rihannsu). Using Nemesis as canon will always get you into trouble. ~S*D

I don't see anything in Nemesis that's not canon (except Deck 29 and the name Shinzon maybe). You could perhaps tell us what isn't Romulan with these Romulans...--Stormy Ordos 09:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Empathic?

The article states that the Romulan commander from the Enterprise Incedent was able to "commune either telepathically or empathically" when she touched Spock's fingers. Huh? Where did that come from? I think I'll delete that, as it's pure speculation. Noclevername 04:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Empress?

The novel trilogy Star Trek Voyage: Dark Matters features a triumvirate ruling the Romulan Empire: an Empress, a Praetor and a Proconsul. The article does not mention an Emperor or an Empress. Has one ever appeared in canon, or was this invented in the novel trilogy? JIP | Talk 13:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Q mentions an Empress in "The Q and the Grey", apparently. Morwen - Talk 13:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

There was the Ruling Queen, who was responsible for the death of S'task. And the only Empress was the great Rihanha (Ael i-Mhiessan t'Rllaillieu) who liberated the Rihannsu from the enemies of mnhei'sahe. These events were chronicled in the Empty Chair by Diane Duane~S*D

[edit] Gray Heart

Is the Romulan heart literally gray? I heard Garak say that: "[On Romulus]You'll find the predominate color to be gray- the buildings, the clothes, the people. Did you know that the Romulan heart itself is gray?" but I didn't think it was literal-he was making fun of them.--Filippo Argenti 02:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pro-"Rihannsu" bias?

This quote from the Books section about the non-canon Rihannsu novels of Dian Duane, as well as a listing of military ranks seems problematic in the Military section: "These books, like most of the other Trek novels, are not canon. Though they are highly respected and preferred when referring to the Romulans (Rihannsu)." -- 76.24.22.102 12:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The military ranks as given in the second part are correct (arrain, Riov, khre'Riov etc), Canon never came up with a coherent system. S*D

[edit] TNG/DS9 era pictures?

Both of the pictures are of TOS-era Romulans. Can we add/replace one with the new Romulan look from the later series? It would seem to compliment the text better since most of the Romulan aesthetics discussed in the article are not illustrated by the pictures. (DrZarkov 22:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC))

These will be provided by the Rihannsu who are now monitoring this page. It bears saying that any (continued) unauthorized tampering with this page will result in a military response. ~S*D

[edit] What is this about Romulan marijuana in Popular Cultur section?

What the heck is this about in the "In Popular Culture" section that there is a type of marijuana called Romulan. That has nothing to do with the Star Trek Romulans nor does it have any relevance to them. Maybe it was named after them but it still have no relevance. It is very out of place. It should be moved to the marijuana article. Azn Clayjar 04:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge in Romulus and Remus

It is a very short, in-universe article that would add more material to this one and make it more complete. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Done, but I'm not sure about the redirect I have in place at the old article, would somebody mind checking it for me? Alastairward (talk) 19:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

It's perfect, good job :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Romulan Star Empire logo.png

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC)