Talk:Roland
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[edit] Roland's origin and youth?
Is there any factual basis for the stories of Roland's origin and youth? AFAIK, the only "evidence" we have for him is the mention in Einhard's Vita Caroli Magni, and all the rest (like R. was Charlesmagne's nephew etc.) is merely legend or from the Chansons de Roland.
Is there a chance to seperate the myth from the facts? --Syzygy 06:58, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
- Syzygy, you are right: the only bit of historical evidence for a Roland is in Vita Caroli Magni. Everything else is legend and cannot be assumed to be historically accurate of the Roland mentioned by Einhard. I'll be editing the page shortly to reflect this, with a reference. VikaZafrin 04:19, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Hruodland"?
The article says: "Roland ('Hruodland' in contemporary spelling)".
What is the source for this earlier spelling? Yes I do see many references to it on the Web... But the earliest reliable and most famous Chanson de Roland of which I know myself is ms. Digby 23 at Oxford, which spells it "Rollant" : actually a scribal abbreviation of that -- "Roll" with the two "ll"s crossed.
That may be seen online now at [[1]] -- first occurrence is on folio 2 verso about halfway down, the 8th line below that which begins with the big rubricated L.
I know the ms. is not contemporary with Roland's battle. But how do we know that the name would have been spelled "Hruodland" in the 8th c.? Sounds like someone is interpolating some sort of Nordic spelling here. Unless a source turns up I suggest that these references be changed to "Rollant later spelled Roland": to reflect the earliest reliable source & giving that source's date -- also to prevent any sort of Internet circularity here.
--Kessler 18:12, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
"Hruodland" appears to be a "Frankish" spelling, used in German now, popularized (& invented?) in the 19th c. and so imported to the US via Will Durant and others. All this from various online cites. But a lot of that 19th c. "medievalist" scholarship now is considered questionable: Viollet Le Duc, etc.... So, rather than propagate an invented 19th c. Roland, my feeling would be that the genuine 12th c. ms. Digby 23 version would be more accurate: at least we have evidence, there -- unless someone can turn up an earlier ms. showing "Hruodland"?
--Kessler 18:19, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
"Hruodland" is the original spelling of the name, as used in Einhard's "Vita Caroli Magni", the only contemporary (9th century) account of Roland's life:
Anshelmus comes palatii et Hruodlandus Brittannici limitis praefectus cum aliis conpluribus interficiuntur.
(Chapter 9)
The current German spelling for "Roland" is "Roland".
--Syzygy 07:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Roland
[edit] Stop dancing around the issue and tell the general reader at least a precis of the legend
I know too little about Roland to contribute. But where's the legend? It is alluded to but not explicated. My ignorance may be telling--having known little, I still knew about his horn--I thought this was a central part of the legend; that Roland, vastly outnumbered, sounds his horn and Charlemagne's army turns around to come to his aid but they are too late and Roland and his men have been slaughtered to a man. A quick google search of "horn of roland" produced many sites--here he is blowing his horn: http://www.mainlesson.com/books/marshall/roland/zpage058.gif from http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=marshall&book=roland&story=horn&PHPSESSID=63be00712ff80937a86e13858eb0b5a2
My memory of the story may be flawed--the article should inform me of the story so I can be set straight! Yet the specifics are totally absent. I come away from this article knowing that some guy named Roland had a legend about him that had something to do with Charlemagne that there was a horn and sowrd involved and that his life became the stuff of legend which has been referenced by various people. This article is missing the essentials IMO to make it interesting, informative and encyclopedic.
One more thing that might be fodder for an addition: I was told by an English professor, many years ago, that one chapter of Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises was set in the town in the Pyrenees where the (apparently mythical) events of Roland's defeat was supposed to have occured. I was further told that though Roland is never mentioned, once this is known, it becomes obvious that Hemingway was very specific in setting the chapter in that town; that he was writing for Europeans who would immediately get the reference, and that once known, that chapter is very clearly alluding to Roland. I have no idea if this is true. If he wasn't full of hot air, this could form an addition for someone conversant. --Fuhghettaboutit 04:02, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Clean up
This article needs some help in general. I've created a starting paragraph that should be there according to the Wikipedia:Manual of Style, but it needs more. I think a major problem may be that it should be about either the historical figure with references to the fictional one(s) or be merged into other articles about the character like Orlando (character) John 00:39, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Dates
"There exists only one historical mention of a French Roland (November 17, 1213-May 9, 1249)..."
These dates seem implausibly accurate for the thirteenth century, and there's no secondary source for them; the primary source seems to be talking about a person who lived five centuries earlier. I have absolutely no idea where the dates came from, but I can't see any reason to believe them, and I'm removing them. Anyone have a source? Shimgray | talk | 17:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Roland the Gunslinger (Stephen King Character)
I don't know much about this legendary Roland, but it would seem that King pulled parts of him for his character - esp. the horn and "unbreakable sword", which would correspond to his legendary guns. SnaX 20:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
