Talk:Roberto Clemente

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	Roberto Clemente has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
January 10, 2008 Good article nominee Listed

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Archives

Archive 1

Contents 1 Number of siblings 2 Notes prior to GA review 3 GA Review and why article is on hold 4 GA Review Passed 5 Former Major League Baseball right fielder?

[edit] Number of siblings

The intro states he was the youngest of seven, (ie. he had six siblings). But in Early life it states he had 6 brothers and 1 sister... (seven siblings). Other sources I found on line indicate there were only seven total but I don't know how many were sisters so I deleted one brother.--Xtrump (talk) 20:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

whoops! my bad, you are right I just checked his biography and he was the youngest of a total of seven, thus six siblings. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notes prior to GA review

I was planning on reviewing this article, but I was informed that might be a conflict of interest because I did some copyediting. I think the article is very well done, but I had three concerns:

1. It's hard to tell if everything it cited. In a few (but not many) places, there is one citation that may cover the previous 3-4 sentences, but it's hard to tell. In addition, the final sentences in "The 1970s" and "Death in airplane accident" don't have citations.
2. I thought that a "Personal life" section would be a nice place to put the information about his wedding, wife and children. It just seems out of place in the middle of baseball statistics.
3. The article has little information about 1966-1969. That seems like a lot to skip over. A few sentences there would help.

Hope this helps with the review. GaryColemanFan (talk) 23:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I considered creating a separate personal life section but though that it might be a bit small so I organized it chronologically. I will be able to come along the biography that was used to source parts of this article tommorow, the book can reference the mayority if not the entirety of the article so if you can list where you think a reference is needed (possibly by using the {{Fact}} template) I can find one for there. The book has some material for 1966-1968 but not particular detail of 1969, but I think there is enough there to warrant a few sentences. Thanks for the tips. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review and why article is on hold

This is my review for the article’s GA nomination; I hope you find it both comprehensive and helpful. I’ve broken it separate parts; initial comments, assessment, required changes for passage, and suggestions.

Initial Comments: The current references are formatted extremely well, with the kind of effort and detail rarely found in other Wikipedia articles; excellent work!! The introduction is well written, although I’m disappointed that this article wasn’t copy-edited more thoroughly before I reviewed it.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Changes required for GA passage:

1. add a career statistics section much like the one in Lee Smith’s article (except use Clemente’s hitting stats of course)Y Done
2. Please add the Persondata templateY Done
3. wikilink “Glove Glove Awards” in the second paragraph of the introduction Y Done
4. the second paragraph of the intro states, “…the only exception to the mandatory five-year post-retirement waiting period….” Other players, including Darryl Kile, have had their waiting periods waived. So, to be accurate, the sentence should read something like, “and the only current Hall of Famer whose mandatory five year waiting period was waived.” Y Done
5. The sections “Pittsburgh Pirates”, “The 1960s” and “The 1970s” should be level 2 headings under the “Baseball career” section Y Done
6. In the second sentence of the Baseball career section, change “to the team’s starting lineup on his second season” to “to the team’s starting lineup the following season.” (it sounds much better that way). Y Done
7. In the next sentence after that, change “During this season he batted in the team’s lead off position and his average was .288” to read “During this season he hit .288 as the team’s leadoff hitter.” Y Done
8. In the second to last sentence of the “Baseball career” section, remove the space between the period and the “n’ in Max Macon.Y Done
9. In the first sentence of the “Pittsburgh Pirates” section, change “…double header involving the Brooklyn Dodgers” to “…double header against the Brooklyn Dodgers.”Y Done
10. In the next sentence after that, change “…racial tension between himself and the local media and some of his teammates” to “racial tension between himself, the local media, and even some of his teammates.Y Done
11. reuse citation number ten immediately after Clemente’s quote “I don’t believe in color.” All direct quotations should always be immediately followed by the source material it came from. In this instance, simply format the first part of citation as <ref name=”color”>, or however you want to name that particular reference, and then put the text <ref name=”color”/> after the period where that quote is.Y Done
12. In the first sentence of the second paragraph of the “pirates” section, remove the space after the word "season" and put it in front of the next word, as in, “During the middle of the season, Clemente was involved in a car accident…”Y Done
13. Change “this led to him losing several games…” to “this caused him to miss several games…”Y Done
14. In the 1960s section, start a new paragraph after the sentence that begins, “He added strength by gaining ten pounds….”Y Done
15. Put in another paragraph break before the sentence about 1961 Spring Training.Y Done
16. ”With the American League was leading the game with a score of 4-3 in the tenth inning, Clemente scored a double that gave the National League a score of 5-4 and decided the game.” This poorly written sentence needs to be re-phrased along the lines of, “With the American League ahead 4-3 in the tenth inning, Clemente hit a double that gave the National League a decisive 5-4 win.”Y Done
17. Place yet another paragraph break before the sentence, “Following the season, he traveled to Puerto Rico along with Orlando Cepeda….”Y Done
18. Another paragraph break before the sentence, “This condition limited his role with the Pirates in the first half of the 1965 season….”Y Done
19. Under the 1970s section, change the sentence that reads, “during which he received a scroll with 300,000 signatures compiled on Puerto Rico…” to “…scroll with 300,000 signatures complied in Puerto Rico….”Y Done
20. ”His last game ever was at Cincinnati's Riverfront Stadium in the 5th game of the playoff series.” Please type out the word “fifth.” In most situations, it’s best to type out numbers ten and under.Y Done

Suggestions for future improvement (not required for GA passage):

1. Use quote boxes to try and incorporate more quotes from Clemente and fellow players or managers; not only would it make the article more interesting, it would also be a nice way to break up the text more.
2. This article is more than a little dependent on material from the 1988 book by Paul Walker. Consider trying to get a hold of other Clemente books and citing info from them, such as “Clemente: The Passion and Grace of Baseball’s Last Hero” by David Maraniss.
3. Consider shortening the title of the “Baseball career” section to simply “Career.”
4. For further ideas or any future formatting issue, refer to Lee Smith’s article, as it one of the few baseball player article to have already reached FA status.

When all of the required changes have been addressed, leave a note on my talk page, & I’ll considering passing the article. If all the changes aren’t addressed within seven days, the article will fail, in which case it will have to be re-nominated. For anyone else reading this review, please consider reviewing an article or two at GAN to help with our current backlog of nominations. Thanks for your contribution to Wikipedia thus far, and good luck with this article in the future! Monowi (talk) 04:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the points have been attended, about the biography I will try to find another one to compliment this one but I relly heavily on what appears on e-bay since my personal life leaves me with little free time during the day, I will see what can be done as well as working with Gary's suggestions. Thanks for reviewing. - Caribbean~H.Q. 05:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review Passed

After reviewing the revisions, this article meets the Good Article requirements of Wikipedia. Your excellent work on the article of one of baseball's most important figures is an invaluable contribution to Wikipeida; thanks! I hope you continue to improve the article all the way up to Featured Article status. All the best, Monowi (talk) 07:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to you for providing such a detailed review, cheers. - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Former Major League Baseball right fielder?

Somebody is usually referred to as a former something-or-other when he is no longer that something-or-other due to some circumstance other than death. So if Clemente was a right fielder at the time of his death, referring to him as a former Major League Baseball right fielder is misleading. Also, isn't saying he was a professional baseball player and a Major League Baseball right fielder a bit redundant as the latter implies the former? --Raaronson (talk) 13:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The former is hair-splitting. He is no longer a baseball player, at least not on this earth. The latter is a good point. Keep the MLB, lose the redundant "professional". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 13:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)