Talk:Robert David Steele

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This article was nominated for deletion on 5 January 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

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An individual covered by or significantly related to this article, Robert David Steele, has edited Wikipedia as Robert Steele (talk · contribs)

Contents 1 Full name 2 proper use of {{Fact}} tag 3 GS-14 - "second ranking civilian" 4 Citation Added 5 Wikipedia suggestion 6 Just a friendly suggestion 7 Steele Comments 8 9-11 Beliefs 9 a dumb kid's message 4 'robert' 10 Do you care to explain why you added a link to Robert David Steele? You can answer on talk:Robert David Steele. I will revert if you do not answer. Ancheta Wis (talk) 08:24, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Full name

What's up with his full name being "Robert David Steele Vivas"? My somewhat educated guess, which it would be nice to confirm, is that he's part Hispanic on his mother's side, and this is a Spanish-style name.

This is certainly plausible given that he "spent his early years, two decades, resident in Latin America and Asia as the son of an oil company executive." --Saforrest 06:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] proper use of {{Fact}} tag

Please do not use the {{Fact}} tag argumentatively in order to cast aspersions on easily verified claims. If you think a claim should be sourced, do some basic research yourself first before putting in the tag. If you see a claim that is outrageous or doubtful, the {{Fact}} tag may be appropriate (or even more appropriate may be to remove the claim entirely). If you see a claim that you cannot easily verify, the {{Fact}} tag is appropriate. If you see a claim that is outright false, then remove the claim. Thanks.--csloat 01:06, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I strongly resent your use of the term "moronic" to refer to my request for a citation. Your name calling is a violation of Wikipedia's policy on civility. You are hereby given a formal warning for your violation.--Mr j galt 02:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I placed a {{Fact}} tag on the reference that Steele was a spy in three foreign countries for ten years since no source is cited for this statement. From which source does that assertion come from? Is Steele merely a self-described former spy? Has the CIA acknowledged that he was a spy?

Wikipedia:Verifiability is one of Wikipedia's three guiding policies. It says, in sum:

1. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources.

2. Editors adding new material to an article should cite a reputable source, or it may be removed by any editor.

3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it.

I am restoring the fact tag to the spy assertion statment here. If you cannot supply a legitimate source for the statement, I will delete it in accordance with wiki policy.--Mr j galt 02:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

The intro mentions that Steele worked for the CIA, but the citation does not mention CIA employment at all. The citation also appears to be a press release, hardly a credible source of information. I will add a {{Fact}} tag at the CIA reference. It would be great if we could find a source where the CIA acknowledges Steele as a former employee.--Mr j galt 03:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

It would be great if you stopped disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. Thanks.--csloat 05:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Insisting on Wikipedia:Verifiability is not disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. If you are unable to provide a cite, I will delete the remark in accordance with Wikipedia policy.--Mr j galt 04:58, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Putting in fact tags when you know very well that the source is in the author's bio and resume, both cited on the article, is disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. You are not "insisting on verifiability." You are well aware the information is verified. You are just stalking articles I have edited and making changes that you believe I will object to. I will leave your silly fact tag where it is for now and let someone else remove it. The facts are established pretty clearly by clicking on his bio link or following the bio to the resume.--csloat 18:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC) By the way, if you do think the fact tag belongs somewhere, it's a good idea to spend five seconds doing a simple google search to see if you can add a citation yourself. Galt, it's a good thing we don't disagree about physics -- it would be interesting to see you putting {{Fact}} tags next to claims like "Gravitation is one of the four fundamental interactions in nature."--csloat 18:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GS-14 - "second ranking civilian"

I have added a {{Fact}} tag to the opening sentence of the article, which states that Steele "was the second-ranking civilian (GS-14) in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence from 1988-1992." Although the GS-14 grade is the second highest GS grade (grades run from 1 to 15), having a GS-14 grade does not mean that Steele was the second highest ranking civilian in USMC intelligence. It is common for there to be many GS-14s and GS-15s in a large federal organization - both of whom are in turn outranked by SES (Senior Executive Service) personnel. If Steele was a GS-14, it is unlikely that he was the second highest ranking civilian in USMC intelligence, and if he was the second highest ranking civilian, it is unlikely that he was just a GS-14. I have been unable to trace either assertion back to sources independent of Wikipedia. 69.223.83.37 03:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Added

I'm a longtime spook-buff & also an acquaintance of Robert's, I was just browsing through, saw the discussion & happened to know a place where his CIA creds are mentioned so I added it. It's my first edit anywhere, was a bitch figuring out the syntax for the footnote. Apologies if I got it wrong. --Scalefree 04:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia suggestion

Hello Mr. Steele, I'm glad to see you have joined the wikipedia group. I recently started using wikipedia myself. As a recommendation, any views from persons (including yours) is best suited to be written objectively and cited from a source. For example, it is sometimes difficult for me to make a point about something because I don't have it documented anywhere, it just comes from experience (such as saying "the intelligence community has mistaken secrecy for intelligence"). Luckily for you, many of your statements can be found in your books and articles--you just need to write it in an objective tone, matter-of-fact voice, and site where the article can be retrieved via the web (external link), in wikipedia (internal link), or reference book. On a different note, I have a piece of information that I feel would be extremely valuable for you to know about, but can't disclose via these channels. Please email me at eagleelephant@gmail.com. Good to talk to you. WilsonjrWikipedia 20:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just a friendly suggestion

I noticed you struggling as a new user to fit into the Wikipedia. I personally feel that Wikipedia can only work properly when people with a diverse array of opinions can come together to write about subjects in a NPOV manner. In any case, I hope this page is helpful to you in regards to the editing of the article about yourself Wikipedia:Autobiography. I hope you decide to stick around and learn how to work on Wikipedia with in its guidelines.

[edit] Steele Comments

I would be very glad to meet anyone that has commented on this page or the OSINT page at Wikipedia conference. You are absolutely correct, it has been a struggle, but what you may not see is that this struggle has been building for 18 years, and that a sad aspect of the struggle is that when I point at something like Wikipedia with the best of intentions, both CIA censors (or more correctly, cover-their-ass in denial over reality bureacrats) and OSINT wanna-bees (who describe themselves as pioneers when they have been nothing more that overweight sedentary journalists trying to play to the banking crowd (for real journalism see Seymour Hersh, Robert Young Pelton, Robert Kaplan, Louise Garrett, John Fialka, etc)) jump to destroy what I am trying to build. Fortunately these idiots cannot interfere with the very high quality content of www.oss.net, which I note with interest is still not listed on the OSINT page after being posted there by Arno Reuser, the foremost military intelligence librarian and OSINT practitioner in the world.

The Aspin Brown competition is documented in numerous places, including the side bar to the Forbes.com article, but this communnity is not yet ready to police people like to destructive moron that removed that as self-promotion when it was in fact 1) documented and 2) central to the 9-11 Commission eventually putting an Open Source Agency into play.

The table of contents for OSS.Net can be sorted by author, if anyone wants to take a stab at actually making this page (which I did not create and did not suggest be created), I have close to 100 relevant references. When folks like Alvin Toffler and Bruce Sterling and many others say nice things about me in writing, it just might be (my temper not-withstanding) that I am earnestly trying to do important things in the service of the public.

The name legally is Robert David Steele, and Steele is the last name. The name culturally is Robert David Steele Vivas, and that is how it appeared on my calling cards when I served three back to back tours in Latin America. Culturally, one is a bastard if both parent's surnames are not given in Latin America. In Brazil the mother's name comes first and is the primary surname, in all the other Latin American countries the father's name comes first. It is a cultural distinction that many do not understand--one defense department person recently accused me of using an alias, and I was pleased to find that his boss understood just how silly this was.

There is only one certified moron working this issue, generally on the OSINT page, no one else should construe that as applying to them. I know you are all well-intentioned educated people experimenting with an important new form of knowledge documentation. On that note, I am sad to note that CIA has fired a contractor for posting, on a private CIA blog, the fact that waterboarding is torture and torture is immoral. Do not underestimate either the totalitarian and illegal aspects of the Bush-Cheney Administration, nor the lengths that CIA will go to suppress dissent or distort reality (see my Amazon review of John Perry's "Lost History"). I continue to believe in Wikipedia, but it needs two things to really survive all these fools: a "lock down" on documents facts that mature editors can block for frivolous change without a nomination process; and a graduated scale that limits newcomers to posting new stuff but not destroying old stuff. Don't know if anyone noticed, but when I spent two days trying to make the OSINT page realistic and comprehensive, I did not destroy, I only added. Most of what I added--as the foremost proponent in the world for OSINT--has been corrupted by people with selfish motives or personal angst rather than true knowledge--the CIA people are in particular ignorant of the open source world because their security mind-set won't actually let them come out and play with internationals.

'Nuff said. After Wikipedia conference, I will drop in from time to time, but absent the two recommended changes above, I fear that I must do what I was asked to do by the Europeans in the first place, and create a private wiki that cannot be screwed up by the same fools that have refused every recommendation for intelligence reform offered up in the past 50 years.

Best wishes to all, Robert Steele 14:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 9-11 Beliefs

Steele has expressed sympathies for 9-11 conspiracy theories on his many book reviews at Amazon.com. "I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war (see my review of Jim Bamford's "Pretext for War"), and I am forced to conclude that there is sufficient evidence to indict (not necessarily convict) Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and others of a neo-conservative coup d'etat and kick-off of the clash of civilizations..."

This has been trumpeted by blogs and other such websites dedicated to 9-11 conspiracies but I can't find it anywhere else at this point. It seems like it mght be relevant to the article, so if anyone can find anything about this in a reputable source, add it.

65.247.224.46 16:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] a dumb kid's message 4 'robert'

ya know.. it'd mean alot for the average kid - to know how to not be incredibly stupid. i mean.. once you feel targeted just for knowing info - it really makes people more impassioned. putting out some kinda.. um.. list of things you can actually get killed for.
some people get to the point where they figure it doesn't matter & get that much more empassioned.. and for both sides, it'd be better to have people know where things stand.
like when a 000 tells you 'eiffel tower' shuts of carnivore.. are you dead.. or just leave 'em all the fuck alone? :D

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.111.56.48 (talk) 02:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Do you care to explain why you added a link to Robert David Steele? You can answer on talk:Robert David Steele. I will revert if you do not answer. Ancheta Wis (talk) 08:24, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Robert Steele volunteered to be prominently featured in the documentary American Drug War: The Last White Hope. I added a link to the entry that directs to the film's website. You can read Steele's review of the film on Amazon.com by clicking here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EndTheDrugWar (talk • contribs) 19:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)