Talk:Republic of Indian Stream

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Using the term 'self declared republic' to describe Indian Stream seems biased and POV. The fact is that they had a real government, elected by its citizens, for a number of years. Aren't ALL republics 'self declared'? I don't seem to recall King George declaring the US a republic. I believe he had some choice other words to say on the subject.... Mike Lorrey 19:08 1/27/05 EST

Feel free to rewrite! That's what the 'pedia's all about. P.S. If you use ~~~~, your signatures will datestamp themselves. :) jengod 03:21, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

I've had a look at what is known about "Indian Stream" and it seems that the page does need bit of a rewrite. POV is presented as fact. --Dumbo1 23:16, 11 May 2005 (UTC) Adding to that, I don't mean to be harsh, the article is mostly well written and entertaining. --Dumbo1 23:26, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Feelings not hurt. Research done on Internet. Actual facts welcome. :) jengod 00:54, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

Doan's book is considered the best source of information on the topic other than looking at Pittsburg town records. I read the book several years ago. BTW: how can one write a POV on an issue that was done and settled 170 years ago, other than being critical of the validity of the facts....69.173.101.181 05:01, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Removed Free State Project link 2 An actual Constitution? 3 Yes, and one of the most interesting in Democracy 4 It does not border "Quebec" per se

[edit] Removed Free State Project link

I removed the link to the Free State Project article because I don't see how it's relevant. While they're occuring at the same rough geographic location, I don't see any other relationship between them. If anyone disagrees, feel free to readd it, but please leave a comment about why you're doing so. Alereon 15:49, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

If you knew anything about the FSP, you'd likely understand the linkage. The FSP grew out of the dissertation of Jason Sorens on secessionist and self-determination movements in history. The state constitutional environment in New Hampshire that tolerated the establishement of the Republic of Indian Stream, of limited government and self determination, is considered to be contributory to the present environment in NH which attracted the FSP to choose it as their destination. It would behoove you to research your topics before you edit them. To do otherwise is POV. Citizenposse 20:44, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] An actual Constitution?

That would be amazing if it was still around, or the minutes or election info of the Legislature, or Governor... or SOMETHING. I realize it's a little obscure, but anyone think that these still exist somewhere? 68.39.174.238 21:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yes, and one of the most interesting in Democracy

Years before the Indian Stream residents formed a "national government" they were a well-organized social community and tracked costs of their communal operation in ledger books. A committee of five men created a draft of a constitution, then presented it to the circa-68 heads of households. Once revised and accepted by vote, it was transcribed into the town ledger for 1832. This ledger is or was held by the archives of the State of New Hampshire, at Concord. Brown saw it while doing his undergraduate thesis at Dartmouth. Brown and I have corresponded about this.

I cannot find the exact reference but my recollection is as follows. During a Political Science PhD thesis on "constitutions of democracies" the student examined that of the Indian Stream Republic almost as a joke. It ceased to be funny when the researcher discovered it was the ONLY such democratic constituton to mention CHILDREN, and to indicate what children have the right to expect from a national government. Whoa!

Excuse me but "the Doan book" is a terrible source of misinformation. It was written by retired Judge Doan, whose [drunk] forebear in 1835 shot Andrew Young, a Quebec Justice of the Peace, in the testicles. Funny? Yes, but in 1849 the United States Congress awarded Young's widow the sum of $2,000 and implied with that was an apology from the United States government. For reference see the Congressional Record. I can recall no mention whatsoever of this embarrassing verity in Doan's book.

Sigh. The town of Pittsburg NH is not the best source of information. The national archives of the USA, Canada, and Great Britain all contain material about the short-lived Indian Stream Republic. Their elected officials corresponded with Queen Victoria and President Andrew Jackson. Additional records are found with both the governments of Quebec and New Hampshire. Various newspapers archives from the 1830s also cover the topic.

In 1835, at Parmalee and Joy's Tavern, along the Connecticut River in Caanan, Vermont, 20 to 25 men got stinking drunk. Several were veterans of the War of 1812 and were in the New Hampshire Militia. In their cups they foolishly decided to form a possee. Taking a buckboard with them they rode into Quebec and attacked the local Eastern Township magistrate Alexander Rae and his assistant named Young. Young was shot in the balls. Rae tried but could not flee from them because he had been born with two "club feet". After his assailants hacked at him many times with a saber they trussed him, tossed him into the buckboard, and triumphantly drove back to Vermont with their captive, to continue their drinking.

But in the tavern now was a local Vermont lawyer. He upbraided the drunks for their stupidity in creating what was bound to become an "International Incident". With the tavernkeeper, he washed and dressed Rae's wounds, helped him into the buckboard, and drove him back home, where a physician was trying to save the life of Andrew Young, bleeding from a femoral artery.

In 1942 was published a multi-volume set of books containing the Diplomatic Correspondence of the United States and England. There must be some 5,000 to 10,000 words devoted to investigation and the diplomacy of this crass stupidity. I have read the documents. When President Andrew Jackson received word of this event, and news that the New Hampshire governor had ordered troops to occupy the Indian Stream Territory he went ballistic. Jackson sent word back to the New Hampshire governor (Hill?) that he was to get his troops the hell out of Indian Stream. He copied the British Ambassador in Washington D.C. and also, I believe, Governor Gosford of Quebec.

During the 1842 boundary negotiations between Daniel Webster and Alexander Baring - there was an understood but unstated psychological tradeoff of the "Indian Stream War" with the "Caroline Incident" in which Canadian drunks fired the ship Caroline on the NY side of Niagara River and sent it in flames over the Falls. Baring put up no fight to have the Indian Stream Territory awarded to Quebec. Neither did Baring insist upon using the accurate 45th parallel as the New York-Quebec boundary because it meant thousands of people would have their nationality changed.

The history of the Indian stream Republic is one of my hobbies. The present boundary between New Hampshire and Quebec is Halls Stream. I have walked the center of this stream with two passports in my fishing vest, one from the USA and one from Canada, because I am a dual citizen.

Trylon 23:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It does not border "Quebec" per se

During the period under consideration, the territory borders on the British Colony of Lower Canada, *not* the Province of Quebec. There still need to be the Lower Canada Rebellions of 1837 and 1838, leading to the union of the two Canadas (Lower and Upper), producing Canada West (Ontario) and Canada East (Quebec). It's only after Confederation in 1867 that there is a Province of Quebec. Varlaam 00:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC) (in Toronto)