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Contents 1 May 23 1.1 Shi'a majority 1.2 Arbusto 1.3 Has Scotland Yard or SIS verified that they gave Richard Tomlinson his hard drives back? 1.4 WWII Pacific Theater 1.5 Arthashastra 1.6 Barbatio 1.7 Catholicism and Christianity 1.8 Susan Richmond and the Somme 1.9 Natars? 1.10 Grammar 1.11 Identify this village in Ontario? 1.12 Renouncing citizenship 1.13 Russian Orthodox Church 1.14 Florida 1.15 USMC officers in Vietnam 1.16 Voted against WWII 1.17 Anti America Gang??? 1.18 Rank and meaning of a "sales executive"?

[edit] May 23

[edit] Shi'a majority

Since I know that Iran, Iraq and Lebanon are shi'a Muslims majority countries but what about Syria? which religion is the majority religion? Shi'a muslim? Sunni muslims? or Christians?

The Wikipedia article on Syria suggests that approximately 90% of the population are Muslim, and that 74% of these are Sunni. You can read the relevant section here. Carom 00:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually according to the Demographics_of_Lebanon Lebanon is 60% Muslim 39% Christian. 41% of the population is Shi'a. So while a majority of Muslims are Shi'a, they are not a majority of the full population. Always remember when you think of Lebanon that they are one of the more diverse states in the middle east. --Czmtzc 12:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arbusto

Why did Arbusto change it's name to Bush Exploration?71.112.145.250 00:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Googling "Bush Exploration" turns up this article [1] which contains two suggestions: 1) that the word "bust" contained in "Arbusto" -Spanish for "bush"- was not a positive connection and 2) that Bush's father, who was then the US vice-president, was. I could find no official explanation of the name change. Bielle 05:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Has Scotland Yard or SIS verified that they gave Richard Tomlinson his hard drives back?

I was wondering what proof do you have that Richard Tomlinson, ex-MI6 spy, really recieved his things back from SIS and if the new blogger.com blog is really his?

Richard Tomlinson violated the user agreements rights of Blogger.com, so who if it's not Tomlinson, is really behind the blogger.com blog and are the posts giving factual information?

Also can you get a copy of the gag order and get a comment if it really caused the blocking or deletion of the blog or not?

Thank you for your time.

[edit] WWII Pacific Theater

I'm doing a project at school that has to do with WWII Pacific Theater Aviation. I need to Make a list of planes and there characteristics (Weight, armament, etc) But I dont know enough airplanes to research. I need enough to make 150 facts about their characteristics. So could you help me with a list of planes that were used in the Pacific Theater by the United States and those used by Japan??? That would be very helpfull....

Category:World War II Japanese aircraft and Category:World War II American aircraft should be a good starting point for you. Carom 03:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

WOW thanks!!!! I wish I would have found this earlier!!!

No prob! Carom 03:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there's no need to get a zero on your project, when we are here to help you ace it. StuRat 15:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arthashastra

I want to know the author of the book "ARTHASHASTRA" My.Email ID is <removed to avoid being spammed> Regards,V.Radhakrishnan.

The article Arthashastra has that information. Bielle 05:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barbatio

WikiProject Reference Desk Article Collaboration This question inspired an article to be created or enhanced: Barbatio Please consider contributing

I was looking for an article on the Roman General Barbatio, but he only seems to receive a passing mention in your page on Constantius Gallus. Is there anywhere else I should look, or does anyone have any more details on his life and career? General joffe 07:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

According to Ammianus Marcellinus' Roman History Barbatio, an unpopular man "of rude and arrogant manners", was married to Assyria, a woman "neither silent nor prudent". An indiscreet letter she wrote to Barbatio got into the hands of Constantius II and, not being one to forgive and forget, he promptly beheaded both. This despite Barbatio's betrayal of Gallus being instrumental in Constantius' rise to power in the first place; there is a moral in there somewhere. See also his brief bio in William Smith's Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities (1870) for an overview of his career. Rockpocket 08:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually I started a stub based on this info, but its late here so if anyone is interested in expanding it, be my guest. Rockpocket 08:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Is there any reason why you didn't include the info above in the article ? StuRat 15:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

It was very late at night and I wished to go to sleep, so I started off the stub off with the reason he was notable, otherwise it may have been deleted, and hoped others may expand it. If no one beats me to it, I'll flesh it out later today. Rockpocket 17:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Julian (in the article) reminds me of Claudius in "I Claudius." As for Barbatio, he violated WP:DICK. Edison 04:38, 25 May 2007 (UTC)Edison 04:38, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Rockpocket, I am really impressed that a scientist should dip his toes in the pool of history; so much so that I am in the process of expanding your stub, my first venture of this kind. It should be finished within the next hour, but I have posted my draft so far. I hope you do not mind. Ave Imperator! Clio the Muse 18:26, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

General joffe, you will now find what you are looking for at Barbatio. Regards Clio the Muse 19:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Was that article created from nothing just because of my question? How superb! Well done Rockpocket and Clio the Muse. General joffe 05:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

This is a great example of how the Ref Desk serves the encyclopedia by being a place where gaps are identified. Next time we have a question about Barbatio, we can refer the questioner to the article. Not symbiosis but synergy. -- JackofOz 06:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Good news, this question has resulted in content shortlisted to feature on the mainpage! Thats the Ref Desk in action. Keep an eye on the Did you know... section of the front page on Monday May 28, 2007 to see if it makes it. Rockpocket 06:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Catholicism and Christianity

Is Catholicism and Christianity or Catholics and Christians the same thing?

Dudforreal 08:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

If you are a Catholic (see Catholicism), then you are also a Christian (see Christianity); if you are a Christian, you are not necessarily a Catholic. Bielle 09:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, Christian denomination might be useful. -- Azi Like a Fox 10:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Other relevent links are Roman Catholic Church and Protestant Reformation. Pastordavid 14:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I am sure that I will make mistakes in the following, but a genetic model might look like this.

1. Christian
   1. Syrian
   2. Coptic
   3. Eastern Orthodox
   4. Roman rite (Roman Catholic)
   5. Protestant
      1. Anglican (Episcopalian, Church of Scotland, Church of Ireland, Church of South Africa, all from the Church of England)
         1. Methodist
         2. African Methodist Episcopalian
      2. Lutheran
         1. Churches of Sweden, Denmark, Norway
      3. Calvinist derivations: Presbyterian
      4. Congregationalism
         1. Baptist
         2. Church of Christ
         3. Assemblies of God

There are theological derivations and historical factors that complicate this, but this is a first stab at it, anyway. Utgard Loki 15:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

No, actually, that is a pretty good overview for our purposes here. Pastordavid 15:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Complicating the analysis is the fact that many branches of Christianity believe that the only true Christians are those who are members of that particular branch. --Carnildo 21:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh? Which are those? I know of none that exclude others from being called Christian, unless you could the Mormons, and they're something of an asterisk to the map, above. There are many that believe that the others are in such theological error that they are in danger of damnation, but that's the difference between saying, "You're such a bad pilot that you'll crash" and saying "You're not a pilot." The charge that churches deny the Christianity of the others is old and generally insupportable. Utgard Loki 13:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I have met, and discussed this with, people who believed that Catholics were not christians, even one that actually believed anyone who did not believe their particular branch of evangelical christianity were not really christians, but just thought they were. There was no subtlety in their wording. And all these people were evangelical, biblical-literalist, 'fundamentalist' protestants. They certainly believed that this was the teaching of their church, and that this was what they had been told by those above them in the hierachy. In addition, see Jack Chick. Skittle 13:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The Mormons are the largest group, but there are many small Protestant branches that also do so. --Carnildo 20:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Individuals, yes, certainly. I have no doubt about that, as I have had the lamentable experience of meeting them, too. Jack Chick is...well...not a church. Incidentally, the Roman Catholic Church's exclusion of those not baptized by those in the apostolic succession could count as declaring a person unsaved, but unsaved and unChristian are different matters. My question was about churches, though, and I can think of none (of those that have an actual doctrine) that exclude the others. Again, yes with Mormons, but not others, at least today. Utgard Loki 15:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Mormons do not say that other denominations aren't Christian, and tend to be pretty inclusive in this regard; thus to a Mormon, a Jehovah's Witness is Christian, even though a lot of others exclude them. They just say they are the only true Church, not the only Christian Church.Eran of Arcadia 16:31, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Susan Richmond and the Somme

Does anyone know anything about the English actress Susan Richmond and her work as a volunteer nurse in the First World War? Judithspencer 11:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Judith, I managed to locate an article, with extracts from Susan Richmond's memoirs in the journal History Today for July 2006. An actress by profession, and from a comfortable Edwardian household, she made her own way to France in 1915, where she took up service in the Scottish Women's Hospitals for Foreign Service, founded by a formidable doctor by the name of Elsie Inglis. Inglis had been a member of the Edinburgh branch of the National Union of Women's Suffrage Societies, which decided to suspend its political work at the outbreak of the war, and instead equip a medical team to aid British soldiers. The War Office was approached, but the offer was instantly turned down, because it was not considered appropriate for an all female medical team to be in charge of a military hospital. Inglis then approached the French Red Cross, which accepted her offer and made Royaument Abbey, to the north-east of Paris, available as a hospital. Susan Richmond came to Royaument in October 1915, staying until October 1916, when she left to use her acting abilities to entertain British troops with the Lena Ashwell theatrical company. During her time at Royaument she tended to wounded soldiers from all over the French colonial empire and beyond. She was there when the Somme attack began on 1 July 1916. Here is a brief extract from her journal for that day, I was put on night duty that night, so I went away about 5pm to rest. All through the night the cars came in and went back again for more and yet more. All night the weary surgeons worked quietly and quickly. There were French, Colonials, Foreign Legion, Arabs, Senegalese, West Indians, Australasians, bewilderiing in number and variety; the Abbey must have presented a striking picture had anyone had time or thought to spare. But we had not; we were working with Death at our elbows. Clio the Muse 00:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Natars?

A webgame, Travian has computer-controlled tribe called Natars. Is this tribe real like the other tribes of game? I found couple of pages in Google saying it could have something to do with either India or Persia. --88.114.53.178 11:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Aren't any apparent connections you find most likely to be misleading, if you are interested in the real culture of real peoples? --Wetman 13:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

This would be an excellent question for the Entertainment Desk. StuRat 14:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't really see why Entertainment is any more appropriate, since the question is about a people group with a computer game only providing the context. Anyway, a cursory search shows no relevant results for "Natar" or "Nataren" (another rendition in Travian). However, there is the Nataraja, a dancing posture of the Hindu god Shiva. That's a cultural tie to India (and perhaps what you found), but not really a good link to say that Natar is based on India. Based on the Nataren description at the Travian wiki, though, this is an entirely fictional tribe. The "world's most advanced ancient civilization, that suddenly vanished without a trace" just doesn't (can't?) have a historical basis. — Lomn 15:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar

Which is grammatically correct?

By default these keys are not activated, however, it is not very difficult to do so.

By default these keys are not activated; however, it is not very difficult to do so.

By default these keys are not activated. However, it is not very difficult to do so. --Seans Potato Business 15:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Grammatically, either #2 or #3 would be acceptable, but neither is actually semantically proper, as the "to do so" is vague. If it were "not very difficult to activate them," then either #2 or #3 would be fine. (A semicolon either separates comma-delineated sections of complex lists or, most commonly, separates two independent clauses where there is usually not a coordinating conjunction. The conjunctive adverbs of "however, therefore, thus," and "so" are a frequent cause of confusion.) Utgard Loki 15:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. Thanks. By default these keys are not activated, although it is not very difficult to do so. - In that case 'although' is a 'coordinating conjunction' (Grammatical terms send my head into a spin!). --Seans Potato Business 18:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I would add a comma after "By default" though. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 06:38, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Wirbelwind is correct that it is customary to add a comma after an introductory adverbial phrase ("After dinner, a gentleman should pause"), but some communities (particularly business) have been omitting commas after very short introductory adverbials (two words or one). "Although" is not a coordinating conjunction in this case, though. I really think "do so" is icky and incommunicative. Your readers won't follow you. Utgard Loki 13:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, thank you both, for all the help! --Seans Potato Business 08:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Identify this village in Ontario?

What is this village, town or city? 44°12'26.62"N 78°49'50.40"W --Sonjaaa 15:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

The closest two place names I found were on this Lake Scugog site: Starr's Beach to the north and Washburn Island for the peninsula to the south. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

If I had to guess, I would say it is the co-ordinates for someone's cottage, right on Lake Scugog. MapQuest puts it here: [2].There is not much in that area but homes and cottages. The location is about equidistant from Little Britain to the north, Janetville to the east, Caesarea to the south and Seagrave to the west, and not one of these places has much more than a bank, a variety store, a bait store and 3 churches.Bielle 16:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

This map of Starr's Beach places the orange YAH pointer close to the home or cottage in question. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

This location is part of the city of Kawartha Lakes, Ontario. Marco polo 14:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I was flying over this area, on a flight from Montreal to Toronto, and noticed the distinctive teardrop-shaped piece of land from my window seat, and thought, I'll go home and look it up on Google Earth, because I was curious who lived there. It seemed to have houses there.--Sonjaaa 16:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renouncing citizenship

Hi. I have this little question that's been on my mind for some time: If a person would choose to renounce his citzenship (i.e. to no longer be a citizen of any country), what would the consequences be? I've seen articles here describing similar situations, but none of them was quite spot-on... What I'm intrested in is what would happen if somebody kills the person in question, or if the person kills another one who renounced his citizenship, or if the person kills a citizen of a country. What risks and what advantages come with this renouncing of citizenship, if it is possible... Thanks, Danielsavoiu 17:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what country's citizenship you are interested in renouncing, but I found this site [3], which appears well-written, on the problems of doing so with a US citizenship. Crimes are still crimes, regardless of statehood, it would appear. And you cannot renounce from within the country, which, by extension, suggests that, unless you have another citizenship at hand, you might not be granted re-entry. Please note, in compliance with Wikipedia policy, this is NOT legal advice; I am not a lawyer and I have no way of confirming if what the site claims is fact. You would be advised to consult a lawyer before attempting anything so drastic. Being stateless would have its own set of problems as Google will quickly show you. Bielle 18:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

As alluded to in the previous answer, the end result is always the same. To completely renounce citizenship from all countries, a perosn must be in space or in international waters. Once the person is not a citizen of any country, he or she will no longer be allowed entry into any country. There have been those who tried to invent their own country in the middle of the ocean, but the closest thing to a success is L. Ron Hubbard (creating Scientology) - and he didn't go as far as creating his own country. Instead, he opted to call his practice "religion" and move back into the United States. --Kainaw ^(talk) 18:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Kainaw, wouldn't SeaOrg] be more relevant in terms of Scientology?--0rrAvenger 21:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. Just for the record, I’m not planning to renounce any citizenship. The question was more of a Thought Experiment. Thanks for the site, it was a great read, Danielsavoiu 18:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

There is an article on stateless persons, but it's rather short.

One important point is that whether a person is a citizen of country X is a matter for the government of country X to decide, and not any other; in particular, they do not have to agree with the way the government of some other country views the person's citizenship. Some countries never allow their citizens to renounce citizenship (or at least that was true in the late 20th century, and I assume it still is). Some countries allow it only if the person is a citizen of another country, so their citizens cannot become stateless by renunciation (I've read that this applies to Canada). Some countries withdraw citizenship automatically if the person becomes a citizen of another country. And so on. Of course it is also possible to become stateless involuntarily if your country ceases to exist (or withdraws your citizenship, if their laws allow that). Some people have become displaced persons that way.

As to the benefits and responsibilities that go with citizenship, see that article.

As to the crime question, if a citizen of country X attacks or kills a citizen of country Y while in country Z, most likely country Z (or a lower-level government within country Z) will prosecute the crime, but the governments of X and Y may get involved, and in particular it might happen that country Y would try to extradite the criminal (or have her seized illegally) and prosecute her if country Z would not do it. If one of the people is stateless, that just means there are fewer countries that might get involved.

--Anonymous, May 23, 2007, 23:56 (UTC).

[edit] Russian Orthodox Church

On the Russian Orthodox Church's cross symbol, why are there 3 bars? I can understand one of the bars being traditional (†), where Christ's wrists were attached to the crucifix. But where did the other 2 bars come from? Could the lower bar represent where Jesus Christ's feet were nailed to the cross? And could the top bar be the place where the plaque was? Or are my assumptions incorrect?

Thanks in advance RobertsZ 18:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Here's the link to the article on Crux orthodoxa, but it doesn't explain everything. ---Sluzzelin talk 18:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the top cross-bar represents the plaque, the longer middle cross-bar is where Jesus arms hung, and the bottom one is where his feet were. This cross, known variously as the "Eastern Orthodox Cross", "Byzantine cross", "Patriarchal Cross", "Russian Cross", and the "Slavic Cross", is most often used by churches in the eastern Orthodox tradition. In some areas of the world, a distinction is drawn between churches with a parallel bottom cross-bar (denoting eastern orthodox churches) and churches that use a cross with a slightly slanted footrest/cross-bar (denoting Byzantine rite, or eastern rite catholic churches). I am sure there is more specific info that could come from one of our editors who is Eastern Orthodox, but that's the info I have. Pastordavid 19:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I knew that it would come to me -- the top "bar" or plaque is technically called a titulus, or more specifically the Titulus Crucis. I also came across info that connects the bottom cross bar (especially when it is slanted) to the saltire, or Saint Andrew's Cross. That explaination probably holds some water in areas where St. A. is the patron saint of a national church. I think that - in those areas - that may be a decent explaination of the slanted bottom cross-bar -- but more universally, I think that the explanation of it being where Jesus' feet were is probably a little more likely. Pastordavid 20:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Florida

The article History of Florida states <quote>According to popular legend, unlikely to be true, Juan Ponce de León discovered Florida while banging his girlfriend</unquote>. Seriously ? --Anne97432 19:38, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed this. Anyone can edit most any article. Just click on the edit link on the top right of each section and make whatever revisions seem to be needed. -Czmtzc 19:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know ! But I wasn't too sure. After all, there might be any number of legends I am not aware of. Though banging did not sound quite appropriate for an encyclopedia --Anne97432 19:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you can go to the history section of the page and find the original text, which referfs to the legenday search for the fountain of youth. That make more sense.--Czmtzc 13:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I get an image of an automaton made of tin and steel being struck like a bell. Utgard Loki 13:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] USMC officers in Vietnam

During the early part of the Vietnam war, what was the highest rank of US Marine Corps officer who could reasonably be expected to go on patrol with his men? --67.185.172.158 21:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

This is a problematic question for a few reasons, first because the Vietnam war had been going on before the Gulf of Tonkin incident so we'd need to know what you mean by the early part. If you mean during the initial USMC deployment of 3,500 marines in 1965 to guard the USAF bases which ARVN units had been unable to. I'm not sure they went out on patrols at that point.

Could you be a little more specific about what/why you want know. Anynobody 02:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

In the miltary the cut off rank for direct involvement in combat and patrol in lt col. However, to build moral officers as high as one and two star generals occasionally (and rarely) go on patrol with men.

[edit] Voted against WWII

what is the name of the woman from Arizona who Voted against the US declaring war on Japan in WWII

• Jeannette Rankin of Montana. Shimgray | talk | 22:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• • She also voted against World War 1. Edison 22:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti America Gang???

What was that one gangs name. It started with an S or somthing. Anyways, they started a fire-fight with police somwhere in texas because they beleived the government was betraying us and lieing about things that the people should know about. The fire-fight lasted like 4 hours and the ploice finaly made them come out with tear gas and shot them all. But this gang of people inside this one house had automatic rifles, gas masks, grenades, and all the stuff you would hope bad people like them wouldnt have. This took place bettween a large window of 1980 or late 1990s. I would really apreciate it if anyone could tell me the name of this crazy gang of people, thanks.

Are you talking about the Branch Davidian of the Waco Siege? --24.147.86.187 23:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Are you maybe talking about the Republic of Texas people? There are also some crazies called Sovereign Citizens, but they tend to write bad checks rather than get into gunfights. --TotoBaggins 13:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rank and meaning of a "sales executive"?

Hi. English isn't my first language, so I was wondering was exactly is a "sales executive", its rank, its job.

• Found nothing at sales executive.
• Tried executive which sent me to corporate title, but only the topmost titles are listed there.
• Tried to search for it, but Wikipedia has dozens of pages mentionning it, merely as a rank.

Maybe there should be one article explaining the non-topmost business positions, such as "sales executive". It seems very common and probably obvious for English-speaking people, but not obvious for others. Thanks.

62.147.39.153 23:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

As with many job descriptions, the words could apply to almost anyone from the kid who takes your order over a speaker at a drive-in hamburger joint to the President or Chair of a huge corporation. Sometimes titles like "executive" are handed out instead of raises. Generally, it would refer to a senior (executive) position in a sales division of a mid-sized or large company. Thus: the vice-president of sales would be a "sales executive"; the vice-president of finance (or the corporate treasurer) would be a "finance executive". It is not a job title in itself, but a description of a category of jobs. The word "executive", my opening statement notwithstanding, is generally restricted to those of some decision-making weight in an organization. Perhaps there is someone reading this who is fluent in "human-resource speak" and who can thus do a better job of translation. Bielle 23:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree, you can't evaluate a job based on the title. Instead, ask how many people, if any, work under this person, what their salary and benefits are, what their annual budget will be, etc., to try to determine what type of a job this is. StuRat 04:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I would say, anecdotally, that a sales executive is usually a sales person who either deals with larger than usual accounts, or is part of a 'strategic' or 'business-to-business' sales organization. The word "Executive" would imply that the person is an 'officer of the corporation' but this is rarely the case. NByz 04:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

A somewhat sarcastic description of a sales executive would be that he or she it important enough to pander to him/her to stay with the company, but not important enough for a proper job description. Aecis^Brievenbus 11:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)