Talk:Participatory democracy

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seems to me participatory democracy is not purely a party political green concept. I am thinking the article should be merged with Global Green Charter, or should have Global Green Charter in its title. Laurel Bush 12:46, 11 May 2005 (UTC).

Don't agree. Participatory democracy is conceptually deserving of its own article. — Stevie is the man! ^{Talk | Work} 13:10, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Agree with Stevie, this should be its own article.--Fluxaviator 09:15, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Primary features of Participatory democracy: 1. High levels of participation; local activity. 2. Community, common interest 3. Consensus of the people 4. Governtment by amatures 5. Democracy is THE ideal form of governement, "an end in and of itself" (Compare to pularist Model where Democracy is the best anwser to prevent tyranny)

Famous theorist of Particpatory Democracy: John Dewy Benjamin Barber

I took this part out do to POV Participatory democracy is inclusive, requires practice and reflection, accepts and absorbs conflict, actively addresses dissent, and pays attention to those who speak softly or who are on the margins. --Mrebus 00:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Poland reference removed 2 Participatory Democracy in Government 3 Participatory Democracy and the Council of Europe 3.1 Participatory Democracy in Albania 3.2 Participatory Democracy in Poland 3.3 Participatory Democracy in Kosova 3.4 NATO 4 Original Research 5 Students for a Democratic Society? 6 Open institution democracy 6.1 Open electoral system 6.2 Open legislature

[edit] Poland reference removed

I've removed a reference to Poland and participatory democracy (diff). It appears to be based on the phrase "participatory democracy was out of the question because it was illiberal". The source in question is a translation from the Polish, and I strongly suspect that the "participatory democracy" referred to is not the concept covered by this Wikipedia article. - David Oberst 08:34, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

To remove an addition because you "doubt" that is not the concept covered by this Wikipedia article" violates Wikipedia NPOV policy, please restore it. You have not read this article? If you have an issue after reading it, please post that here.

What other form of "participatory democracy" would a Polish political scientist discuss being a failure? Is there anotgher form? Please add that form to the article. Raggz 09:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

My phrasing was a form of politeness. To be blunter, I suspect you have not read this participatory democracy article, or have made this edit for reasons of your own. This article is a rather fuzzy umbrella piece on somewhat theoretical concepts such as anticipatory democracy and deliberative democracy, or elements usually found in small or sub-national systems (consensus democracy etc). Not only is there no mention of Poland as somehow being an exemplar of this mix, the lead paragraph stresses that the concept covers something beyond the general "participation" inherent in modern democratic societies. If indeed Poland is especially noted for having experimented with (much less failed in) some distinct concept of "participatory democracy" (either relating to this article, or something separate), there should be a plethora of sources for you to expand this article. Failing that, I'll charitably assume you have somehow misunderstood your source (especially as its only usage of the term comes in the sentence "One thing was taken for granted from the beginning: participatory democracy was out of the question because it was illiberal."; hardly a convincing source for the statement that Poland "has attempted to create a participatory democracy"! - David Oberst 09:54, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Is there another form of "participatory democracy" that might be the concept covered by this Wikipedia article? Raggz 01:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

There are indeed a "plethora of sources" on the experiments of participatory democracy in Poland. I selected this citation, perhaps there are better ones? Why not select and add a better one yourself,(or not)? Perhaps you will convince me that participatory democracy in Poland is working,(I really have no strong opinion). Meanwhile please either (1) revert the sentence I added or (2) challenge the citation as "unreliable".

Why not a section on how this political theory is actually working? British Council Brussels and The Power Inquiry Workshop on Participatory Democracy 29th September 2005, Brussels. (Framing Democracy: Civil Society and Civic Movements in Eastern Europe. By John K. Glenn III. Stanford University Press, 2001. 258 pp.) Suppression of a pov, or working for npov, which road shall we take? Raggz 04:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Why is there a Green Section? It is all material that should be in another article. No references are included, so it can be deleted, does anyone think Green Party specifics belong in this article? Raggz 06:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Checking the contribution history might provide some clue as to the origins of the Green section, not that it is of any interest to me. As for the other, I'm still of the opinion that you think "participatory democracy" is some strictly defined thing like uranium hexafluoride or drosophila melanogaster, which led you to sentences like the one on Poland that I removed. - David Oberst 06:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe that if "Participatory Democracy" means more than one thing, the opening paragraph should make it clear to the Reader what the article is about (and possibly not about). WP:NOT Read about the Policy on defining what we are writing about. Speaking of policy. I'm patiently waiting for you to revert my article. Policy precludes just deleting whatever you disagree with, if it has a reliable source. My source was an academic peer-reviewed journal.

I don't have any idea if participatory democracy is failing in Poland, but they are really complaining about it in Eastern Europe. Do you know? Raggz 08:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Participatory Democracy in Government

[edit] Participatory Democracy and the Council of Europe

"The participatory democracy practised in the Council of Europe, the Home of Democracy, represents a unique and original form of citizen involvement in the European construction process." "participatory democracy to be established in Europe, as advocated by the President of the Conference of INGOs of the Council of Europe in her statement at the Warsaw Summit: “Participatory democracy means recognising citizens as players for the common good. Recognising them as players is the key to the future of our democracies.” ^[1] "In this context, the work of the CoE Forum for the Future of Democracy,2 to be established as part of the Action Plan adopted at the Warsaw Summit, will be of utmost relevance to the question of freedom of association in general and the participation of civil society in the democratic process more specifically. Through an “exchange of ideas, information and examples of best practices”, when created, the Forum will allow for addressing new challenges, such as the role of civil society and its organised part - the NGOs - in policy-making, the question of “participatory democracy” and the future of “Quadrilogue”. ^[2]

[edit] Participatory Democracy in Albania

"Continued U.S. Government assistance will help to accelerate Albania's transition to a market economy, and a participatory democracy based on the rule of law, as well as support integration with the European Union (EU) and neighboring states." ^[3][4]

[edit] Participatory Democracy in Poland

[edit] Participatory Democracy in Kosova

[edit] NATO

"From a perspective of a long term and comprehensive strategy, the establishment of a pluristic and participatory democracy both in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and Kosovo, in particular, is a must, because if you think of all ethnic groups living in Kosovo, including the Turkish minority living in Kosovo, the most important thing is not who rules the Kosovo region. The most important thing, from our standpoint is whether there is a democracy there, whether there is a pluristic and participatory democracy there. Whether there is a tolerance in terms of a multi-ethnicity structure of that region." ^[5]

So, we can get much better references. The point is that while the US Green Party sits on their butts, Europe is seething with participatory democracy! Why stay focused on the US Green Party? Raggz 07:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original Research

"Be careful not to go too far on the side of not upsetting editors by leaving unsourced information in articles for too long, or at all in the case of information about living people. Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia, has said of this: "I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons." Raggz 08:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Students for a Democratic Society?

One of the key values of SDS in the 1960's (and today with its rebirth) was Participatory Democracy, as advocated in the iconic Port Huron Statement. Just google search "participatory democracy" and you won't have to search far to find an article related to SDS. I think leaving SDS out leaves this article without any accurate historical context. --24.33.240.164 17:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Open institution democracy

A new form of participatory democracy was proposed and publicly debated this month (August 2007). Two institutions were proposed 1) open electoral system, and 2) open legislature. I am wondering if there is room in this article (or anywhere on Wikipedia) for these.

Points I consider in favour of inclusion:

• Both systems were critiqued in public forums, and stood up well. Participating were political scientists, computer scientists, sociologists, and the general public. (So the forums could serve as references, for now.)
• The open electoral system was actually *designed* in public. In response to a paper recommended by a researcher, I did the initial design sketch. Then I refined it in response to criticism by researchers. (So it has been participatory from the start.)
• The open electoral system is simple; can be implemented in a matter of months; can be deployed without financial cost, entirely by participants; and would have immediate, arguably profound political effect. (So it is interesting.)

I looked at other, more specific articles (E-democracy and Open politics). But I like the quality of this article (Participatory democracy), so I'm knocking on this door first, and asking for opinions. Should we describe this on Wikipedia? And where, exactly? -- Michael Allan 13:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Open electoral system

An open electoral system that is owned, operated, policed and protected by the public. Incorporates a voter registry held together by a trust network; and a voting mechanism based on a 'delegate cascade'.

Design sketch and critique:

• Could the public vote its own candidates into office? http://groups.google.com/group/torcamp/browse_frm/thread/486035734280d5f9
• A quiet revolution in democracy. http://lists.hmdc.harvard.edu/lists/apsa_itp_at_lists_hmdc_harvard_edu/2007_08/threads.html
• - - http://groups.dowire.org/groups/research/messages/topic/1Zbd0H1N6LASECK8AzLJQX
• - - http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=002357
• Open electoral system (strawman plan). http://lists.hmdc.harvard.edu/lists/apsa_itp_at_lists_hmdc_harvard_edu/2007_08/threads.html

Other refs:

• Open electoral system, orderly deployment. http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006756

[edit] Open legislature

An open legislature based on 'community law-making'. Incorporates a collaborative medium (recombinant text) for bill drafting; and an electoral system (the one above) for voting bills into law.

Design sketch:

• Recombinant Text, Applications, Law Making. http://zelea.com/project/textbender/d/overview.xht#Law-Making

Critique:

• Open source legislation, community law-making. http://groups.google.com/group/torcamp/browse_frm/thread/495cb0d9c0c08d0a
• Community law-making, a system based on recombinant text. http://lists.hmdc.harvard.edu/lists/apsa_itp_at_lists_hmdc_harvard_edu/2007_08/threads.html
• - - http://groups.dowire.org/groups/research/messages/topic/4CtDeg0y1D2pY5MQX5I2Gv