Talk:Parkinson's disease
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[edit] Treating Parkinson's with Classical Homeopathy
There is no mention in the article about treatment of Parkinson's using Classical Homeopathy. Many Classical Homeopaths around the world are regularly treating Parkinson's patients with extraordinary results: either stopping the degeneration process or in some cases achieving improvement up to complete cure. Of course homeopathy, like all other forms of medicine doesn't always work and finding a qualified homeopath can be a struggle but given the successes already seen, it should be known as one of the options available to patients. Note that the current political environment regarding homeopathy is very heated so it's common for people from either the pro or anti homeopathy camps to quote studies that indicate clear proof one way or the other. Regardless of this, all can agree that homeopathy patients are receiving treatment with no side effects from drugs for diseases like Parkinson's that are otherwise incurable. RichardRo 16:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
- It doesn't get rid of Parkinson's Disease. --Moses 2007 19:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
- RichardRo, if you can provide a reliable source on exactly what substances homeopaths use, then it may be worthy of inclusion. The problem is that with homeopathy and other complimentary approaches it is very hard to produce such sources.
- Wikipedia is not a battleground, and we need to be clear: if there is evidence that it works, we should cite it. If there is no evidence that it works but many people use it, we should state exactly that. But we should avoid inflated claims that do not hold up to scrutiny. JFW | T@lk 21:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
- JFW, unfortunately, your request for a reliable source is very difficult to provide. There is tons of research indicating the effectiveness of homeopathy from various points of view and as far as I know, all of it is contested for one reason or another. Homeopathy is a complicated study that doesn't use one substance for treatment of a given disease. Treatment is individual and based on a complete picture of symptoms, in effect almost regardless of the disease (which is general and at best expresses a subset of symptoms which would be considered irrelevant by allopathic medicine). This makes it very difficult to set up a double blind study to prove effectiveness of treatment of a specific disease.
- It seems like it should be easy to prove the effectiveness of homeopathy, especially with the availability of trained homeopaths worldwide, the growing number of schools teaching homeopathy, the growing number of health insurance companies that include homeopathy in their health plans, the large collection of trade journals available focused on homeopathy, the accrediting agencies set up in various countries, etc. Again, a sceptic will note that it’s not really known why or how homeopathy works. There are of course theories but that takes us right back to the research problems including those mentioned above. Case studies are available ad nausium but are disregarded as individual and statistically insignificant. Even case studies with treatment of animals are disregarded in the same way even though the placebo effect (the usual explanation by sceptics of individual successes) should be disregarded, as far as I know, in these cases. Case studies showing cure of otherwise incurable diseases are disregarded as flukes. Double blind studies are not cheap and the research money available for homeopathy studies is remarkably limited, given its widespread and growing use. Most people educated in homeopathy are treating patients or educating practitioners and not devoting any or much effort towards scientifically verifiable research.
- So while I’d like to provide all sorts of research links and references to prove the effectiveness of homeopathy in the treatment of Parkinson’s or any other disease for that matter, I must note that this has been tried and tried and only serves to confuse the issue. The existence of so many full time homeopaths worldwide indicates people are using it and its use is growing. Please include classical homeopathy in the treatment section on the main page, even with a statement saying its effectiveness isn’t proven. RichardRo 01:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
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- Let us see some clinical evidence or scientific basis. We haven't seen any yet. --XX7 12:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
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- As I pointed out before, clinical evidence is all disputed so what do you want to see? In the QiGong section, there are two studies listed: one showing it works, the other not at all. If this is what you would like for a Homeopathy section, please let me know. But personally, I fail to see how that would serve anyone. As I tried to stress, Homeopathy is being used and whether clinically proven or even provable or not, it's use is backed by insurance companies. The point is, it is one of the treatments being used. Simply state it's effectiveness is unproven. RichardRo 18:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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- PubMed referenes for the two most effective clinical studies would be interesting to see, plus information or links concerning the substances used if that is not obvious from the references, and if it is known, the scientific rationale. --XX9 19:48, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Category:Deaths from Parkinson's disease
Is there such a thing? Deaths with PD might be more accurate. - Kittybrewster (talk) 09:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
- "Deaths with PD" would not of course be notable (cf "Deaths from ingrowing nails" might be more intriguing than "Deaths in those who happen also to have an ingrowing nail"). Yes PD does reduce physical health of patients and also can have associated mental deterioration (eg the Multiple system atrophy mentioned) and so life expectance is reduced in some patents. So for severe PD for which the patint's general health severely deteriorates and leads overall to their death, then yes "Deaths from Parkinson's disease" seems reasonable. David Ruben Talk 13:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
- In the medical lingo the phrase would be an illness with relatively low mortality and high morbidity,with the majority of deaths coming from secondary causes, such as aspiration pneumonia,injuries from falls,-- such as fractured hips, etc Bwthemoose 17:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
In my mothers case, death came from pneumonia due to her body being in such a weakened state from nearly 30 years of battleling this condition. She went from a young woman to someone who suffered the pains of hell in a short time. In her liftime there was no support groups and both the surgery (which she underwent) and the experimental drugs (which she was also used as a test case) relieved symptoms only for a very little while. So gradually her body broke down and mercifully she passed on. God damn that disease! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.155.110.74 (talk) 14:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Parkinson's
Question to those who actually know about medicine: is there a difference between Parkinson's disease and Parkinsonism at all?
Currently Parkinson's disease is about Parkinson's (duh!), and Parkinsonism tells about differential diagnoses and conditions that true Parkinson's must be distinguished from. There is some spam thrown in at the bottom to "viartis.net", which looks like someone's website. 71.161.73.237 22:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- Well, parkinsonism (the visible signs) does not equal Parkinson's disease (a specific neurodegenerative condition). PD is the most common etiological cause of parkinsonism, but certainly not the only one. -- MarcoTolo 23:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
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- I've restored the Parkinsonism article and made a number of copyedits to (hopefully) clarify the issue. -- MarcoTolo 23:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
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- Thanks, we've got General Tojo still with us, as you can see by the viartis spam. --Dan 18:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] "Drug slows and may halt Parkinson's disease"
The drug rejuvenates aging dopamine cells, whose death in the brain causes the symptoms of this devastating and widespread disease. [1] Brian Pearson 00:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Autonomic disorder and seborrheic dermatitis
A citation regarding autonomic derangement and seborrheic dermatitis would be helpful-- I was not familiar with autonomic disorders causing oily skin. Typicially an autonomic disorder would cause problems such as vasodilation, or piloerection. I have seen many patients with parkinson's, and seborrhea seems to be the least of their problems. Furthermore,what of patients with other types of autonomic disorders such as diabetic neuropathy or Shy-Drager syndrome?Bwthemoose 02:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps a separate category could be created for seborrhea and weight loss, as they probably don't strictly fall under "autonomic disorder." Andrew73 15:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] It has been suggested recently that......
Type 2 diabetes could be one of the causes of Parkinson's disease due to their high correlation from some scientific perspectives. Please add the following info to the topic
http://tds.terkko.helsinki.fi/dspace/handle/2455/42010
[edit] Descriptive Epidemiology
Been a while since I looked at this, and there's really been some heavy clipping. The last sentence in the first paragraph, referring to the vanDenEEden study, no longer is complete. But I see our old friend, this piece:"It occurs in all parts of the world, but appears to be more common in people of European ancestry than in those of African ancestry. Those of East Asian ancestry have an intermediate risk. " is still with us. Whoever keeps putting it in, please stop. Rates in many countries are so heavily distorted by ascertainment bias that they are meaningless, to to infer racial or ethnic differences from those biased rates is irresponsible. --Dan 16:33, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
this is b davidson. i'm currently hospitalized and in the midst of a lengthy and exceptionally unpleasant divorce. the clean-up on this article pleases me a lot. tiny addition i'd appreciate is the word "lengthy" or "protracted" in reference to generalized dystonia. needless to say, these episodes are exceptionally painful and are in fact comprehensively disabling. thanks, and i hope to be around more in the future; i have a lot of interests. barb
[edit] Ferrous Iron - error
This Wiki article states "Ferrous iron, the essential cofactor for L-dopa biosynthesis was shown to relieve between 10% and 60% of symptoms in 110 out of 110 patients.[63] [64]". I could not get reference 64 but reference 63 is is about the _"off-effects"_ when using the drug L-dopa, not about PD progression. My point, is that the current interpretation of this reference is a misunderstanding. The great success (110 out of 110 patients) is not a measure of reduction of symptoms or progression of the disease (as implied from the sentence that proceeds it about tyrosine). Instead, this paper is talking about reducing the harm of the drug (L-dopa).
I point this out because I was thinking of supplementing my diet with ferrous iron. Instead, I learned that "People with high levels of iron in their diet are more likely to develop Parkinson's disease, according to a study in the June 10 issue of Neurology, the scientific journal of the American Academy of Neurology." (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030610081311.htm) and iron chelation (removing iron) might be a way to prevent PD - "Ironing iron out in Parkinson's disease and other neurodegenerative diseases with iron chelators: a lesson from 6-hydroxydopamine and iron chelators, desferal and VK-28". (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15105275&dopt=AbstractPlus) and PD patients already have abnormally high levels of iron "... a healthy adult brain might contain 50 mg of iron per gram of tissue. However, in Parkinson's sufferers, this figure can rise to 250 mg per gram of tissue." (http://www.srs.dl.ac.uk/Annual_Reports/AnRep94_95/Ch2/Iron.html)
I conclude that not only is this original reference about the benefits of ferrous supplementation a bad interpretation (because it deals with avoiding L-dopa problems not PD problems) but, more importantly, it may encourage behavior that increases the risk of PD (and, perhaps, its progression).
71.202.146.30 22:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)Dr
PS: I am not sure that ferrous iron is "the essential cofactor for L-dopa biosynthesis". I could not confirm that with a reference. However, tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) is an essential cofactor (working with tyrosine hydroxylase to turn tyrosine into Dopa). Perhaps this too is an error.
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- Editors should really check the original studies before coming to conclusions. I didn't find it therefore it can't be right is very poor science. The reference concerning the use of iron in Parkinson's Disease that the editor did not find does indeed show a large reduction in symptoms after iron administration. The full text of that study makes it very apparent. Ferrous iron has been known for decades to be the essential cofactor for the formation of L-dopa. See Udenfriend's 1964 Nobel prize winning study in the Journal of Biological Chemistry. The use of iron chelators for the treatment is pure speculation. It has no scientific basis, and has never been demonstrated. If you check the results sections, you will find that people with Parkinson's Disease do NOT have much higher levels of iron. As unfortunately often occurs, the abstract did not match the results. --Joe or Bob 21:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
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- Tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) is NOT an essential cofactor of tyrosine hydroxylase, except in bacteria. Tetrahydrofolic acid is the form in humans. --Joe or Bob 21:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] 6-Hydroxydopamine toxicity should be mentioned in the article
The compond kills dopamine and noradrenaline —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.62.138.21 (talk) 09:22, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
- If there is reliable evidence of its toxicity, then by all means add it to the article--Bwthemoose/Talk 15:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
- a google search did turn up evidence that 6-OHDA is a neurotoxin, and that it is used experimentally to kill neurons inthe substantia nigra to model parkinsonism, but the next question is, does this happen in vivo?--Bwthemoose/Talk 15:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] anoxia
I added cerebral anoxia to the list of causative agents-- Secondary Parkinsonism can occur among victims of cerebral anoxia, particularly CO(carbon monoxide) poisoning. It has also been seen in post cardiac or respiratory arrest patients. One main difference bewteen this and primary parkinsonism is that it is less responsive to anti-parkinson agents.--Bwthemoose/Talk 16:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cfd
I propose renaming Category:Deaths from Parkinson's disease to Category:Deaths with Parkinson's disease. - Kittybrewster ☎ 18:03, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Notable Parkinson's Sufferers
This is relatively insignificant, but I see that Mao Tse Tung is listed as a notable figure who suffered from Parkinson's disease. This piqued my curiosity since his Wikipedia article said he had ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Scelerosis). From what I know, these are two distinct disorders. Clarification, anyone? 131.215.227.21 (talk) 08:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
- Google suggests he had both. - Kittybrewster ☎ 11:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Also Mohammed Ali didn't have Parkinson's Disease, strictly speaking. His symptoms are the result of head trauma, and thus his condition will not deteriorate. 24.17.202.188 (talk) 12:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Book section needed
I think this site needs to have an area of recommended books on Parkinson's to offer some support to those suffering. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sseretti (talk • contribs) 14:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
- Are there any books you think are worth mentioning? We are already mentioning Lucky Man. JFW | T@lk 16:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
100 Questions & Answers About Parkinson Disease by Abraham Lieberman, MD with Marcia McCall. 2003. Jones and Bartlett Publishing. Sudbury, Massachusetts. and yes it's "Parkinson" without the "'s".
[edit] What about "real" people, as opposed to "Notable" people?
I read with great interest the article on Parkinson's Disease. While I appreciate the list of organisations at the end there are no links to places where those who suffer from this debilitating and frustrating disease - like me - or those who care for them, can go to get support from real people. While I acknowledge the guidelines for talk, which prohibit personal promotion,I wonder if a link to a blog site such as mine (http://blog.colinengland.com)which I am currently putting together for this purpose, might not provide comfort and support to many? ColinEngland (talk) 12:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Colin, whilst I agree and applaud the efforts of all those who work on behalf of patient education (I also work on a website for people with PD), that is not the purpose of Wikipedia. If readers do want to access those sites they can do so relatively easily via Google. Best wishes, --PaulWicks (talk) 18:54, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Capybara
The capybara is the largest rodent in the world. WP:TOJO thinks it needs saving. While that may be the case, the Parkinson's article is the wrong place for such a campaign, especially if it requires recurrent blanking by accounts sequentially named Kapibarra 1 (talk · contribs), 2, 3, 4 etcetera.
I have now fully protected the article. I hope someone saves the capybara, so we can carry on working on this article without interference. JFW | T@lk 14:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] α-synuclein
{{editprotected}} Could someone change the first mention of α-synuclein into a wiki-link to alpha-synuclein? Thank you.--69.118.143.107 (talk) 22:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Strike that first request, the first mention of alpha-synuclein is already a wiki-link. However, for the sake of consistency it should be referred to as either alpha-synuclein or α-synuclein. This page uses both versions, please change them so that they are all the same. Thank you.--69.118.143.107 (talk) 22:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Was originally going to leave this open for discussion as to whether "α" or "alpha" would be preferred, but checked and saw that the overwhelming majority of mentions in the article already used "alpha" -- only one used "α". With that in mind, it seems reasonable to assume a preference, there. Done. – Luna Santin (talk) 23:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Minor edits needed.
The last sentence of the third paragraph doesn't read smoothly. I think the simplest revision would be to remove the 'where'. While you're in there, you might consider adding a comma after 'toxicity'.
Current: 'While many forms of parkinsonism are "idiopathic", "secondary" cases where may result from toxicity most notably drugs, head trauma, or other medical disorders.'
Suggestion: While many forms of parkinsonism are "idiopathic", "secondary" cases may result from toxicity, most notably drugs, head trauma, or other medical disorders.
Bonniecresap (talk) 21:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
The sentence which reads "Disturbances in REM sleep: disturbingly vivid dreams, and REM Sleep Disorder, characterized by acting out of dream content - can occur years prior to diagnosis" does not appear to make sense, particularly at the point "acting out of dream content". I am unsure of what the correct wording should be.
Afromcbenny (talk) 06:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Additional treatment: Medical Marijuana
Medical marijuana has been an effective treatment for some symptoms of Parkinson's, and should be added under the section of treatments. Americans for Safe Access has compiled first hand accounts here: http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=4562. One Czech study reported that half of participants reported relief from use of medical marijuana (Reuters: http://www.ukcia.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=5813). A recent study of the body's own endocannabinoid system indicates that it plays a role in attenuating the symptoms of Parkinson's (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/62616.php). Those interested in learning more about the use of medical marijuana for Parkinson's should visit Americans for Safe Access (http://www.safeaccessnow.org/). It can be effective for muscle stiffness, pain, and can also have a positive emotional effect. Some studies suggest that by protecting against oxidative damage to neurons, cannabinoids in marijuana also help slow the progression of Parkinson's.
I hope this information can be inserted in an appropriate format into this article. My father has Parkinson's, and I know through his experience that medical marijuana offers him a dramatic improvement in his quality of life. It is not a cure for his condition, but it does help him to live a more fulfilling life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrmccraig (talk • contribs) 05:51, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] CopyEdits required
{{editprotected}} This article is locked. Please make the following CopyEdits.
- "rigidity,bradykinesia" <= add space after comma
- "pregression" <= should be "progression"?
- "Procedings" <= Proceedings
Regards, JohnI (talk) 18:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- I have changed the protection level of the page, so you can do it yourself. Good luck fighting General Tojo! Happy‑melon 15:11, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] History of Levodopa
I am not sure it is correct to state that 'l-dopa entered clinical practice in 1967'. A paper in 1961 described the use of l-dopa in Parkinson-akinesia (referenced below). Although this was an obscure journal for the standards of english-speakers (it is not only a German journal, but one published in Vienna, Austria), it did initiate the use of l-dopa in Parkinson's disease in Europe, quite prior to 1967.
BIRKMAYER W, HORNYKIEWICZ O. (1961) [The L-3,4-dioxyphenylalanine (DOPA)-effect in Parkinson-akinesia.] Wien Klin Wochenschr. 1961 Nov 10;73:787-8. German. PMID: 13869404 Konradic (talk) 19:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- I would not call the WKW an "obscure" journal, but most sources seem to support 1967 as the time when levodopa made a worldwide appearance. Do you have secondary sources to support the claim that the 1961 paper made a significant impact (citations, recorded eyewitness accounts)? JFW | T@lk 11:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- Reading Jankovic JNNP 2008 it seems these reports indeed reflect early clinical use of DOPA, but somehow the Nobel Committee favoured Carlsson because his work identified dopamine as the missing neurotransmitter. JFW | T@lk 14:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] bnmvmv
vnfcgngh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.181.206.136 (talk) 02:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
468rtdx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.163.31.16 (talk) 22:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Dementia: a later development in approximately 20-40% of all patients
Can you please change this to an accurate number? how can it be "between 20% and 40%"? it's either 20%, or 28%, or it depends on geographical location, or on the weather outside, or what? this statement is not informative, please correct. --Gyll (talk) 12:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] neuromelanin
I'm no physicist but I am pretty sure that neuromelanin is not "an electronically active semiconductive polymer" Gareth.14:44, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Is Parkinson's Disease infectious or non infectious?
I need help and im un sure if Parkinson's disease is infectious or non infectious if you can help please tell me. Fitzyex (talk) 04:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Non-infectious. - Kittybrewster ☎ 14:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Drug-Induced Parkinsonism
We need to include hydroxydopamine, Interferon-Alpha and Interferon-Gamma as drugs that induce Parkinsonism. How can we do this if the page is protected from editing?! Cransona (talk) 23:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)Alex Cranson, 4-8-08
Me again. I have been working on a Manganese toxicology experiment for a while, and this page seriously lacks info on drug-induced Parkinson's disease... particularly related to endogenous drugs (i.e. interferon-alpha and -gamma injections to treat hepatitis B and C, and myelogenous leukemia). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cransona (talk • contribs) 23:51, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] no imaging can help diagnose?
that is very inaccurate and misleading.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/445631 206.248.149.122 (talk) 12:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
- see also this news release on recent work by Turi O. Dalaker et.al. LeadSongDog (talk) 15:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Notable Suffers
Notable - worthy of note
I think that all suffers of Parkinsons are worthy of note. Perhaps this can be changed to Public Suffers or Famous Suffers. The term notable implies that other people are not worthy and this is just plain wrong.
"notable." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2008.
Merriam-Webster Online. 21 May 2008 <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/notable> WArthurton (talk) 17:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- On wikipedia, 'notable' means something very different - see WP:Notability and WP:BIO. Notable means 'having their own wikipedia page' or 'having received large amounts of media attention'. WLU (talk) 17:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
