Talk:Orz (Star Control)

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-07-22. The result of the discussion was keep.

I removed the line where it analyses the ships to say its unlikely the Orz beet the Androsin in ship to ship Combat. That kind of logic isn't in the game

<LordR-man> Fwiffo- What really happened to the Androsynth in sc2? <Fwiffo> In regards to the Androsynth: They were snagged by the entity who/which projected its fingers into our dimension (which looked to us as the Orz.)

This is a quote from a chat log where Fwiffo is Paul Reiche III and Fred Ford answering questions. I can't be bothered to figure out which one it is at the time. At any rate, this proves that it is not just a theory. Andre 19:33, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The page with their bios states that Fwiffo is Reiche. Not that important, but, there you have it... :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:22, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

The log suggests that it's both of them using Paul's computer, that's why I'm not sure who said that particular quote. It's a moot point anyway. Andre 20:58, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

OK, like I said, I *know* that is true - because, like you, I'm a fan of the game, have read chat logs with the authors, and such. But isn't that a BIG spoiler for someone who's trying to find out about the game? I don't know... I think all of these pages should be revised, separating spoilers from non-spoilers... and marking the former as such. Dehumanizer 21:55, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'll add spoiler warnings to pages that need them, then. Good thought. Andre 22:09, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Anyone know if this is true, and should it be added to the page?

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/02/07/all_about_orz.html

Not sure if anyone still updates this, but what were the revelations about the Orz revealed in SC3? I played that game and enjoyed it (of course, I hadn't yet played SC2) but it was a long time ago and even if I could remember I was probably too young to grasp it. Just because fans don't like it, I don't think we should pretend it doesn't exist. RentACop 05:59, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Orz were "revealed" to be the thralls of the Eternal Ones, abandoning their hinted origin for "Precursors/Eternal1s did it!", the game's answer to everything. --Kizor 17:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

How is the Nemesis supposed to work? I try it in Super Melee (SC2), but all it seems to do is 3 crew damage per shot! What is it supposed to really do?

Its main power are the marines, which are launched by pressing both fire buttons. The turret can rotate too. --Kizor 09:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

1 Language section
- 1.1 Orz fingers
2 Are they evil?
3 Quotes
4 OR
5 spoilers of course, but..
6 many bubbles
7 a single higher-dimensional object can be separate objects in a lower-dimensonal space
8 Fair use rationale for Image:Orz.nemesis.png
9 Fair use rationale for Image:Orz.png

[edit] Language section

I made some changes to the language section since I felt that the example phrase was too long an uninformative. These are the only Orz-terminologies that I found that have some clear importance to the game or the Orz themselves (the latter seem to be detailed at the other sections). If someone feels I missed an important term go ahead and add it, but the list shouldn't be too long either way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.248.122.134 (talk • contribs) 04:16, October 31, 2005

I think that the Orz language is of special interest. Therefore, a long list is tolerable. 84.108.130.242 12:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't Wikipedia's notability requirements come into play here? --GargoyleMT 02:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orz fingers

I have understood that rather than constituting a single higher dimensional being, the Orz share a common consciousness. If there is no evidence to the contrary, I'll edit the article. 84.108.130.242 12:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a distinct possibility, but do we have much evidence one way or the other? The main thing we have to go on is a developer IRC interview where he refers to Orz with "who/which." Come to think of it, that shows pretty clearly that it doesn't work quite the same way as beings do in here. There's discussion about this below. --Kizor 15:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

If you find evidence from a good source, it deserves to be in the article. "No evidence to the contrary" doesn't seem to obey the principle of citing your sources. --GargoyleMT 02:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Are they evil?

I've been thinking: if the Orz are *fingers*, what if there are *toes* too, and they caused the Androsynth's disappearence? And perhaps the Orz *frumple* if we mention the Androsynth because they want us not to *smell* the *smelly* *toes*? ;) Frigo 22:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes

I added the second quote. this is the greeting that they give from star control III. when you leave them, they also say "yes. we do. goodbye is the *GAME*. hello! i am only joke! it is funny enough! do not forget to *ENJOY THE SAUCE*", but i dont want to add too many big quotes. also, the grammar of the quotes maybe slightly off, as i have not played that game in a long time. i just remember those quotes somehow... -cmnamost

[edit] OR

I really like Star Control 2, but this article (as others of the races seem to be) is filled with WP:OR. Does anyone feel strongly on the subject? Is anyone else willing to do cleanup? --GargoyleMT 18:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spoilers of course, but..

An article about the orz needs to contain spoilers somewhere, but this article is labeled spoilers from the start. It should have "spoiler-free" and "spoiler" zones told apart.

[edit] many bubbles

I was under the impression that the *many bubbles* referred to atoms. It would make sense that the Orz are not made of atoms as they hinted that they don't have the same kind of material presence as other creatures. Something like, "You think you *see* Orz but Orz is not *many bubbles* *light reflections*." I could be wrong, I might have to check. -gigacannon

Not that exactly, but I was under the same impression. In any case, there's reasonable doubt and no clear evidence. --Kizor 18:08, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Atoms?! Come on, what could they be other than cells? I am many bubbles. Before I came to existence I was first one bubble. When another bubble met the one bubble, they were Two Bubbles. And then they got on multiplying and are now definitely Many Bubbles. When I was Many Enough Bubbles, I was born. The Orz are not material in the strict sense we are used to, hence they are not composed of cells (bubbles), like all life on earth is. -- Dakkus January 20, 2008, 16:57:52 (CET) —Preceding comment was added at 15:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] a single higher-dimensional object can be separate objects in a lower-dimensonal space

In Star Control 2, however, the Orz board the Earth starbase and move about around using exo-skeletons; this seems to show that they are in fact individuals and conflicts with the way in which they are presented in Star Control 3.

There is no conflict. Imagine a trident (a single 3-d object) penetrating a 2-d plane (with the forked end). On the plane the trident will appear as 3 separate circles, not a single object. The fact that the Orz are separate entities in our space has no implication that they cannot be a single object in a higher dimensional space. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Romanpoet (talk • contribs) 16:40, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

In any case, the article isn't supposed to contain unverifiable information (i.e. speculation). I think your edits to clear up the subject are solid. --GargoyleMT 17:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that it is very important that we clarify this issue. I understand that the Orz are able to be these beings that you are describing, and that the way in which presented in SC3 can lead one to agree with your speculation, but it is still merely speculation and should not be admitted into the entry at all. What you are doing is using speculation to reconcile the conflict, but that does not change that there still is a conflict in the orz presented physiology between Star Control 2 and Star Control 3; speculating to reconcile this issue does not change the fact that the conflict still exists. The game does not lay out this grand theory that you have to explain this conflict. The orz in SC2 are presented as individuals and in SC3 they are presented as these "fingers" of a single being. I am merely listing the said conflict and the reason for it. What if we introduce sub-headings in the physiology section that explain the Orz as presented in SC2 and a separate section to explain SC3? This could also be included as one of the many reasons that the creators of SC2 don't consider SC3 an "official" sequel.Kazon 21:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The interactions with the Orz are so cryptic in SC2 (and intentionally so!) that I think drawing any conclusion from them is folly. I played both II and III and saw no contradiction in the portrayal of Orz. --GargoyleMT 16:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

In the chat log, a SC2 creator uses "who/which" about the Orz; it's not supposed to be clear whether or not the Orz are single or separate entities, or whether the concept makes sense where they come from. --Kizor 23:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

May I ask you to check the Ultronomicon before making such claims? Check http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/Dimension. Dimensions in Star Control aren't the dimensions in real-life physics, i.e. height, width, length. They are realms of existence. Valaggar 18:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Who are you addressing with that comment? --Kizor 18:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Valagaar, How does that prove that in SC2 the Orz are a single consciousness. I am not following your point. Please be more clear and reference where in SC2 it says that they are a single consciousness. The use of the term "fingers" does not prove that they are a single consciousness, that is again still speculation. If there is more specific and conclusive evidence that we have missed please share it, because I am unaware of any such evidence.Kazon 05:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Valagaar, you are fully correct that a dimension in star control is not the same as a spatial dimension, but the analogy does/should still hold. If you had a single entity that spanned multiple dimensions (in the SC2 sense), pieces of this single object can very well appear as multiple distinct objects if you're looking at it from within a single SC2 dimension. The trident analogy works just fine here. Romanpoet 17:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Kazon - "were snagged by the entity who/which projected its fingers into our dimension (which looked to us as the Orz.)" - i.e. it is a single entity, not a hive mind. Don't forget the Orz quote: "I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*" - "one".

Romanpoet - Yes, it is not a bad analogy, but it's not an analogy suitable for an article, plus you didn't explain that it is just an analogy. Especially because you used "pan-dimensional", which means "spanning multiple dimensions", a thing that, while true, can be confusing. Valaggar 17:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Note to myself for when the revolution comes: This can gain some of the much-vaunted (do I know what vaunted means?) out-of-universe perspective by noting the scary aspect, referencing the Orz's development from what the authors say in the chat log. --Kizor 07:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Orz.nemesis.png

Image:Orz.nemesis.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Orz.png

Image:Orz.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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