Talk:Nobody Likes Onions

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Contents 1 Adding details 2 Category 3 Surnames 3.1 Just reflecting reality 4 Finally happy! 5 Opening Theme 6 Way too long 7 Whitmore 8 Neutrality

[edit] Adding details

I don't use Wikipedia much, but I'm adding some things around. I listen to the show religiously, and anything I post can be found in episodes of the podcast. I'm going to add things about Nick's outing on the show, and the Craig's List emails about giving fellatio to men.71.209.111.133 01:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category

I take it that me adding NLO to the Comedy and Humour Podcasts category was a good move? I'm pretty sure it's counted as a comedy show. 212.219.120.5 10:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Surnames

Why does there seem to be an issue with using the host's surnames in this article? They've been removed a few times now. Formal writing rarely uses just personal names. -- Vary | Talk 17:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

From my talk: - Vary | Talk 20:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It's my show (the article I edited).

The characters we portray on the show don't go by their last names in any way - they are characters. I edited tons more besides the names, and you undid it all. SketchEtch 19:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

First, looking at SketchEtch's diffs and SketchEtch's and mine combined side by side, the only change other than the name changes that I did not include was the one to the PLA radio segment, and that was not a revert, but a reword. So, for the record, I didn't just revert to an earlier version, and I didn't remove any changes except for the unexplained removal of the hosts' surnames.

If the hosts are fictional characters, that needs to be made clear. It is still appropriate to include the full names of the people who portray these characters. If Weeks and Melton are portraying characters, then the line between the character and the person playing the character is blurred in the article, and it currently reads as if it refers to real people not characters. As long as the article treats Patrick and Adam as real individuals, it should use their real names, and anything referring to the real world need to refer to Patrick Melton the real person, not Patrick the fictional character. (Ie, the podcast is presumably produced from Patrick Melton's residence, as fictional characters don't own real audio editing equipment.)

Anyway, I'm going to revert to my last version, as there are too many changes involved for me to pick out what the factual innaccuracy was that SketchEtch mentioned - hopefully, it will be simple enough to find and make again without replacing the style problems. If the hosts of the show are really fictional characters, and if anyone wants to edit the article so that it refers to them as such, (as opposed to simply changing the surnames to personal names and allowing it to continue to read as if it is discussing real-life people), then great, but the intro at least does need to include the full names of the actors who play the parts. -- Vary | Talk 20:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just reflecting reality

First off, in my opinion, Patrick's "character" argument is unconvincing. Patrick and Adam use their first names only as stage names. By using only the last names, this article simply doesn't match up with reality. The article, as now written, will only confuse anyone who has heard any quantity of the show's material.

By way of comparison, examine the article Kelis, in which the performer in question is consistently referred to as "Kelis." Her last name, Rogers, is in fact given, but she is not referred to by that name throughout most of the article. I would assume it is because people would not know who is really being referred to, as her stage name is Kelis. In my observation, Wikipedia is fairly consistent in this, viz. Usher, Sylvester, Tiffany, Seal, Selena etc. Prince is even referred to as Image:Prince symbol.svg for that period of his life.

Reducing it to a simple question of Wikipedic accuracy, only first names should be used. Adam's last name has been used on the show since its inception all of maybe three times. He is almost always referred to as Adam or "Hollywood Adam". Patrick's last name is uttered more frequently, and what's more, he has a public personna outside of the show, whereas Adam does not. Listeners of the show are unlikely to even recognize references to Adam if only his last name is used. This also is reflected in the web site, where their last names are not used. Even if Adam's full name is given at the front, then "Adam" should be used throughout the article. "Patrick" should be likewise used throughout as well.

In light of Patrick and Adam's well-enunciated preference for using only their first names as stage names, using their surnames more than once perhaps moves this article closer to the realm of harassment, per Wikipedia policy. KriZe 19:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The pattern of using the full name in a person's first mention in an article and the surname thereafter is preferred in formal writing and per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Subsequent uses of names. I think the problem of tone trumps any confusion that might be felt by a NLO fan who doesn't know the hosts' full names. We're writing for a far larger audience here, and not just for listeners, and there should really be no confusion as the full names of both hosts are mentioned in the intro. So, while that might be a good reason for The NLO Wiki to use the hosts' personal names, it's not a problem here.

The performers you cited have a great deal more notability than Melton and Weeks. Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Pseudonyms, stage names and common names says "For people who are best known by a pseudonym, the birth name should usually appear first in the article, followed closely by the pseudonym. Follow this practice even if the article itself is titled with the pseudonym." (Emphasis mine) I would have to say that Patrick Melton is not really well known to be referred to by only his first name a'la Cher, and that's ignoring the fact that most of the performers you cited have much more unusual first names than Melton does. Rather than 'reflecting the reality' that Mr. Melton is widely known as just 'Patrick', the use of his first name in the article implies an informality and intimacy that is not appropriate to a wikipedia article.

Weeks and Melton's surnames are easily found online and a matter of public record. I don't see how using them in a Wikipedia article could be harassment. -- Vary | Talk 03:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In Adam's case there is no question that he is "best known" for NLO. If you can demonstrate that he is well known for something other than this particular show (and under a name other than just "Adam"), I'd be interested in hearing about it. I'll concede that Patrick has achieved a degree of notability outside of the podcast as a comedian on the Tampa comedy circuit, wherein his full name is used. This is however an article about Nobody Likes Onions and not the individuals in question. If and when an article about Patrick (or Adam) is written, the Manual will be very instructive (including necessary information like birthdays and nationalities per the Manual).

Perhaps a closer parallel would be the Three Stooges. Even though many of the stooges share surnames, necessitating reference by personal name, note that Larry Fine is more often called Larry than Fine. In Larry Fine (actor), Larry is called Larry and not Fine. Even though Larry Fine has a "great deal more notability than Melton and Weeks," the same parameters should apply on account of how these people's names are used in connection with what they are known for.

Also, I just want it to be clear that I was not suggesting entirely deleting the surnames. I realize that we aren't dealing with private information like Nick Starr's credit card number. The point is, if what this article is meant to do is inform readers as what the show is about, then the stage names ought to be used after the initial identification. KriZe 15:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Your first comment on the matter began 'Patrick's character argument is unconvincing.' Using a stage name requires a conscious decision on the part of the performer in question, so if Melton says that 'Patrick' the host is a character and a different person from Patrick Melton the stand up comedian, and wants to differentiate his real personality from that of the 'character' he plays on the podcast, then he is explicitly not using 'Patrick' as a stage name, as that would imply that the person he is on the show is the real Patrick Melton. So really, the whole discussion is moot.

But assuming, for the sake of argument, that they are stage names: What I'm saying is that Melton and Weeks are not particularly well known at all, and certainly not to the degree that they are being referred to outside of their fanbase by just their first names. Are there, for example, any non-trivial published works that have referred to them strictly by first names, where surnames would normally be used?

If I heard the name "Adam", with the expectation that I knew who the speaker was talking about and no surname was needed, I'd probably think "...and Eve". If I heard "Adam" in the context of podcasts with the same 'no last name needed' implication, I'd think "Curry." A fan of the show might have a different reaction, but again, we're not writing for fans of the show here. The fact is that Adam and Patrick are extremely common names, probably too common for the media to let almost anyone get away with using them as stage names. As there aren't, so far as I can tell, any publications that would qualify under WP:WEB that have covered this podcast at all, we can't say for sure if any major media outlet would accept 'Patrick' or 'Adam' as stage names and see Melton and Weeks as well-known enough that they could be referred to by 'one-name celebrity' type stage names. So, as I've said before, using first names in this context is inappropriately informal and intimate. -- Vary | Talk 16:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Finally happy!

I'm glad it's finally right. I saw your points, and hopefully the edits now please everyone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SketchEtch (talk • contribs)

[edit] Opening Theme

Where is the guitar line from the opening theme of this podcast taken from? Is it an original or is it taken from a published song? What would be the name of the artist who preformed it and the title of the song?Zeketheo 02:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Early episodes state that Patrick had the theme song written strictly for the show. --70.161.204.53 01:57, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Way too long

This article has gotten way too long. We don't need every detail of the show - that's what the show's wiki is for. I've cut down a lot of the cruft. Please stick to the basic facts of the show in this article. In particular, no more quote sections. Thanks. -- Vary | Talk 14:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Whitmore

I added Whitmore to the Recurring Guests section. He's credited as an "Official Show Guest" on the NLO forums, so I felt it appropriate. Novite 09:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

Granted, I understand that this article is most likely to be written by an NLO fan but throughout the article, there are opinions that arent neccesarily biased, but just that, opinions. Things such as claiming that Roy brings a good balance to the show, or using the word "hot" to describe a fictitious character's love of bacon. I think that perhaps this should be considered in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.228.93 (talk) 03:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)