Talk:Neo-Confederate

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Contents 1 Why "Confederate" with a small c? 2 Why the blanket reversion and no comment? 3 Neo-Nazi 4 This article in essence, is another subpage of the SPLC website 5 Specific Issues 6 Ed Sebesta 7 Slur 8 useless 9 Blacklist 10 Removal of unsourced paragraph 11 This Article is all pointless. 12 Why lower-case "neo-confederate"? 13 My Apologies 14 Guilt by Allegation 15 POV tag 16 The article needs to be completely rewritten

[edit] Why "Confederate" with a small c?

Why is this article titled "Neo-confederate" with a small c? Does the title not refer to the Confederates, as in the Confederate States of America? It is a proper noun and should therefore be capitalized. The page should be at Neo-Confederate. For instance, see Neo-Nazi. (Note that I am not necessarily comparing Neo-Confederates to Neo-Nazis, but it is the most direct structural parallel that comes to me at this time.) 71.105.74.192 00:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd concur, yes. —Nightstallion (?) 11:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I had the same question. Capitalization will make it clearer. -- Alarob 04:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why the blanket reversion and no comment?

Why the blanket reversion? Could I see some justification for it? Or is it just an attempt to foist a single political view onto Wikipedia?Dogface 20:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neo-Nazi

I deleted the line about the usage of the term neo-confederate implying association with neo-nazis, because there is no evidence anywhere to back this up. Neo- is a prefix used in several other forms besides for neo-nazi. D-rew 01:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Does the term "neo-natal" compare babies to Nazis?Verklempt 02:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article in essence, is another subpage of the SPLC website

This article does not conform to Wiki standards. WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR, etc. It is nothing more than a SPLC propaganda piece.
--Fix Bayonets! 21:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

This allegation is absurd.Verklempt 14:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:3RR Warning issued to User:Verklempt--Fix Bayonets! 15:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Are you unable or unwilling to make a rational argument for your case?Verklempt 15:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Please see WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR. This article does not conform to the above. Suppose an article were to appear on Wikipedia under the title: "neo-Zionist," in which virtually everyone in the Jewish community was accused of being a racist, or race-baiter, or engaging in some other nefarious conduct in furtherance of a unified neo-Zionist goal of overthrowing the government of the United States in favor of a Zionist Occupation Government. And further suppose that in “support” of such article, were (primarily) links and references to Stormfront articles. Is it your contention that such an article would be balanced and conform to WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR? --Fix Bayonets! 15:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Your analogy is off the wall. The WP article does not accuse anyone of anything. It does report criticisms of various groups, and the groups' own positions. It cites a variety of sources. I don't see any merit in your complaint or your edits.Pokey5945 16:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

While I know very little about this subject, as I discovered this page from another source, I was bothered by this phrase: "The following are among those accused." I'm sorry, but this is really sick. Accused by whom, for what?Dubyavee 06:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Specific Issues

• User "Paul" is correct. His comment of 15:54, 2 September 2005 (UTC) astutely points out that the article, as a whole, is "a hodgepodge of accusations and other speculation." There should be some attempt at WP:NPOV, balance, and "counter-point."
  
  

• User "IP Address" is correct. His/her edit of 15:24, 21 July 2006 correctly points out that "[t]he intended lingual association of 'neo-' and 'confederate', is with 'Neo-Nazi' and meant to align their stigmas as somehow related." That statement should be placed back into the article.
  
  

• User "Dogface" is correct. His edit of 04:22, 3 September 2006 was correct to delete the "Liberty Advocate" paragraph-- L.Adv. looks like a group of one member. The "Liberty Advocate" material should be (again) deleted.
  
  

• It should be stated clearly in the article that the "sources" for the very existence of a so-called neo-Confederate "movement" stem from a small number of individuals/groups on the political left (left-of-center). In other words, the article is written from the perspective that IT IS AN ESTABLISHED FACT that such a so-called "movement" exists, and that such "movement" is of "significance," numerically speaking.
  
  

• It should be stated clearly in the article that most of the critics of the UDC and SCV stem from a small number of individuals/groups on the political left (left-of-center). Furthermore, it should be stated that the Southern Poverty Law Center is described as a "controversial liberal organization" by the Washington Post and as controversial and sometimes "misleading" by Harper's Magazine. Edsall, Thomas B. “Conservative Group Accused Of Ties to White Supremacists.” Washington Post, December 19, 1998, p. A08 ("The Southern Poverty Law Center [is] a controversial, liberal organization that tracks conservative militia and "patriotic" organizations");
  Silverstein, Ken. “The Church of Morris Dees: How the Southern Poverty Law Center profits from intolerance.” Harper's Magazine, November 2000. p._.
  
  

• The article leaves one with the impression that only racists believe that the secession of the Southern States was justified. That is not correct. It should be stated that other eminent scholars of constitutional law and history have defended the constituionality of secession.
  
  

• It should be stated in the article that the UDC and SCV declare themselves to be apolitical.[1][2]
  
  

• For the sake of balance, it should be stated that Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have tendered letters of commendation to the SCV and the UDC.Clinton, Bill. "Letter of June 21, 1994 from Bill Clinton." UDC Magazine, Sept. 1994: p. 9. Bush, George W. "Letter of Commendation." Confederate Veteran, June, 1996: p.6.
  
  

• While the above issues are not the only ones which should be addressed, they should serve as a good start.
  
  

--Fix Bayonets! 08:48, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

---

1)The anonymous complaint from a year ago is out of date given subsequent editing. 2) The "neo-Nazi" line of argument is absurd and unfounded. Let's see some evidence for that whopper. 3) The movement exists both in the minds of its critics, and in the minds of movement activists themselves. The numerical significance of the movement is established by the movement's own rhetoric (see SCV and LoS memberships claims). 4) I agree that criticism should be contextualized, but not by using sarcastic, distancing adjectives such as "so-called", which introduce POV. 5) I disagree that the article "leaves the impression" re racism and secession. It never links the two concepts at all. 6) I agree that the stated objectives of the groups mentioned should be included, and juxtaposed with the critics' counter-claims. 7) The letters from Presidents are trivial factoids that do not illuminate anything significant about their recipients other than that the President was courting their votes. There is no good reason to include them. If we do include them, it rather shoots down the organization's claim to be apolitical, doesn't it?Verklempt 17:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

---

My thoughts:

1. The alleged lingual link between "neo-Nazi" and "neo-Confederate", if it is to be in the article, must be referenced to a reliable source. "Neo" has a clear meaning aside from its association with "neo-Nazi" (thus terms like neoliberal and neoconservative are in common use), so it seems that saying the prefix is being used as a way to associate these people with neo-Nazis is a somewhat dubious claim, though I'm not discounting it as a possibility. In other words, we cannot merely assert that there is such a link without reference because there are rational reasons to doubt its validity.
2. "Liberty Advocate" does not appear to be remarkably notable and does not seem to meet reliable source guidelines. If no one can prove to the contrary, it should probably be removed from this article.
3. It is POV to say that the sources for the existence of the neo-confederate movement come from a small number of sources on the political left. A google search for the term comes up with about 100,000 hits. I'm not opposed to describing the proponents of the term as generally left of center, but we would have to be omniscient (or have a lot of time and patience) to say with certainty that it's really only coming from a small number of sources.
4. Regarding the SPLC, you know my thoughts on that from the SCV talk page. I'll reproduce them here for everyone else's perusal, "The article already mentions that the critics are on the left, no reason to repeat that claim with a mention that the SPLC is "liberal." If the SPLC is going to be described as "controversial", the article must say exactly who is saying it is controversial. It's not an objective fact that it is controversial, it is a fact that person X has described it as controversial. But this article isn't about the SPLC, and I think such criticism of the SPLC belongs in the SPLC article."
5. Generally, this article suffers from some of the same back-and-forth problems that the SCV article was facing for awhile. In other words, it seems to be bouncing between versions that are slanted against the term and versions that are biased in favor of it (well, as much as one can be "for" or "against" a word, anyway). Actually, even the version of the article that is purportedly biased in favor of the term's use contains some subsections that are written from a POV that is slanted against the term's use. Perhaps this article needs to be reorganized or rewritten entirely. I'll mark it with a cleanup tag for now. · j e r s y k o talk · 17:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea where to start on this article. Is there an article about US secession ideas on Wikipedia? I know New England thought about it three times before the War of Northern Aggression. South Carolina thought about it while Andy jackson was in office. I know some talked about it after Kerry got his butt handed to him in 2004. Heck, West Virginia succeeded at it in 1863 from Virginia, but that's not quite the same thing.--Bedford 03:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The neo-Confederate movement combines secessionist ideology with Lost Cause historical revisionism. It is best conceptualized as an ethnic nationalist movement. There are heavy helpings of unabashed white supremacy laced through, even though most of the orgs attempt to distance themselves from overt displays of racism in their official pronouncements.Verklempt 14:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it's very arrogant for verklempt to think that he/she has this issue "locked down" when it clearly is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.23 (talk) 06:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ed Sebesta

Is this person so notable/credible that someone can be labelled a "neo-Confederate" upon his sayso alone to the point that this becomes encyclopedic? After all, pretty much anyone can allege anything about anyone else. It has been alleged, for example, that Bill Clinton was secretly a Communist, that Richard Nixon was secretly Catholic, that certain Popes were actually Freemasons, and all kinds of other things, but that does not automatically make such allegations encyclopedic. I think that we should be more interested in who is a self-identifed neo-Confederate, just as Wikipedia tends to list as being gay self-identifed gays, not purportedly gay people, and would only consider allowing someone else to be listed as gay with several credible outside sources, not just one very partisan and self-serving source. We wouldn't let Fred Phelps alone determine who was or was not gay, and we shouldn't let Sebesta alone who is a neo-Confederate, even with the annotation that he is the sole source. Rlquall 22:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I think you have an important point here. However, the Southern Independence Party rejects the label, according to the article. But if the SIP is not neo-C, then the term has no meaning, and this WP article should be deleted. Sebesta's ID on this particular group should be self-evident, regardless of his own credentials. In this case, going by the group's self-ID alone would lead to a wrong conclusion. Eugene Genovese was a member of the LoS. If LoS members are not neo-C, then who is?Verklempt 00:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I want to add that Sebesta has published on the neo-C movement in peer-reviewed scholarly journals. He is rather more than a self-appointed watchdog--he is also an independent scholar whose work has been validated by the research community.Verklempt 00:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

As I recall, the list of alleged Neo-Confederates was added by an editor seeking to disparage the use of the term. I believe the idea was to show how ridiculous some of the allegations are. OTOH, I think is is reasonable to uses sources to indicate, in an NPOV manner, how the term is used and who is regarded a part of the movement. Sebesta's website has been altered, so some of these references may not even work anymore. Perhaps we should trim the list to those entries with two or more sources. -Will Beback 18:26, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The two-source rule is a good idea, but there may be one-source examples that should remain. If there is a one-source example that seems like it belongs, specify both the source and the rationale for inclusion.Verklempt 01:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slur

This article should mention how the word is seen as an offensive slur to most people. I have seen where men have retaliated by calling people Neo-Yankees as a comeback. Which would prove its offensiveness.

"Most people" have never even heard the term, much less do they know what it means or to whom it refers. Any random word can be used as an insult. I think this one has a long way to go before it falls into that category. It is nearly always used to describe a particular nationalist ideology and movement.Verklempt 02:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

No, It was originally invented to compare Nazis to Confederates, which have nothing in common. That is why people see this as an insult. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Virginia Confederate (talk • contribs).

Ahh, yes, just like neoliberal and neoconservative are meant to evoke Nazis too, right? Neo- is a prefix in common English use. Cite reliable sources which demonstrate your claims, please. I've place a prod tag on the Neo-Yankee article you just recreated, and will afd it if you remove the tag. Just compare google hits for the terms "neo yankee" and "neo confederate" and I believe no more discussion will be necessary. · j e r s y k o talk · 20:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] useless

This article is trite and meaningless and largely refers to a few private views held by some individuals.

I agree. It is pure slang.

[edit] Blacklist

I deleted it. There is no reason to have a list of people/organizations accused of something. It is too closely related to a McCarthy Era blacklist. And since the majority of them stand accused by one person, it really doesn't belong. Comments? --Milton 02:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I added it back. The article is about neo-confederates and naming who these people are is an integral part of the article. The SPLC is not "one person" but an organization and it is a widely quoted source whenever news articles are written about extremist fringe groups. Could the list be trimmed? Probably. Discussing specific deletions would probably be a more productive use of this discussion page than unfounded charges of McCarthyism. Tom (North Shoreman) 11:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Let's not prance around the bush. There is no listed justification for WHY those groups are considered neo-confederate, they are simply tossed out there. The article admits that many consider it a slur. The anti-Semite page doesn't list accused anti-semites. It doesn't matter if it's sourced or not. Listing people and organizations accused of neo-confederate leanings without providing a reasoning why is irresponsible. And don't waste time saying that "the article is about neo-confederates and naming who these people are is an integral part of the article," because that's not true. Defining a term doesn't necessitate a list every application. If you want to put SOURCED reasons why people or organizations are, feel free to. I personally will leave it up there, if it meets Wikipedia standards. Regards, --Milton 15:18, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: If you want to provide a link to a list of the organizations, that'll work. It just doesn't belong as its own section. --Milton 15:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

If your goal is really to reach consensus, as you indicated on my talk page, then I would have thought that you would have initiated the conversation before you deleted the list the first time but certainly before you deleted it a second time. It is easy enough to obtain info. from the source and add it to the list. I have now done it on three of the organizations listed and will continue to do that as time permits. If you really want to improve the article, you can do the same thing and we'll be done twice as fast. Tom (North Shoreman) 16:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

You might also want to take note of the introduction to the Intelligence Report which describes its criteria:

The neo-Confederate movement includes a number of organizations that generally share the goals of preserving Confederate monuments, honoring the Confederate battle flag, and lauding what is judged to be "Southern" culture. Many have close ties to the white supremacist League of the South (LOS).

As the battle over removing the Confederate battle flag from atop the South Carolina Capitol heated up this year, leaders of relatively mainstream groups like the Heritage Preservation Association, the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy shared the podium with the likes of the LOS and the Council of Conservative Citizens — despite the latter groups' clearly expressed racism.

The political cross-pollination between these neo-Confederate organizations is also seen in the large number of cross-memberships among their leaders and activists. Tom (North Shoreman) 16:55, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

No, I deleted them per WP:LISTS, regarding undersourced, controversial material reflecting negatively on individual persons. --Milton 17:30, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Please demonstrate how this list reflects negatively on anyone. Most of these folks are proud of their political beliefs. The only real controversy is over what to call them. "neo-Confederate" is not intentionally pejorative, and far more NPOV than the alternatives.Verklempt 22:04, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

The belligerent tone of your comment belies the supposed politeness of your request. As mentioned previously, the tone can be used as a pejorative, and often is intentionally so, as the article maintains. Furthermore, many of the organizations contest their labeling as a neo-confederate group. I hardly think that a recognition of history and culture automatically constitutes a hate group. Whatever the definition of the term may be, it carries a strong subjective definition. For example, take a look the Iraq article, and the sometimes intense debates over what verb to use regarding what the United States has done and is doing (occupying? invading? etc). I am not in the least opposed to discussing why some groups or people may be considered neo-confederate, but the entire page takes a rather negative view on neo-confederatism ("accused" "alleged" "claims" etc), and as such, violates WP:NPOV. Either the page should be rewritten to a more neutral tone, or the list should be removed. If I had a page listing people of being guilty of "Tomfardyaism," and cast "Tomfardyaism" in a negative light, it would therefore cast the people in a negative light. --Milton 22:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

You are conflaing several distinct issues. First, my "tone" is perfectly polite. Please do not engage in ad hominem. Second, "neo-Confederate" and "hate group" are not synonyms and should not be used as such in this article. Third, if specific neo-Confederate groups or individuals have expressed discomfort with being so labeled, then that should certainly be included into the article. It is relevant. Why exclude it? Fourth, your complaints of POV are a separate issue. Specify what they are, and we'll deal with them separately. I would argue that it does not make sense to discuss neo-Confederate movement as an abstract concept, without also specifying some examples of such groups and individuals.Verklempt 00:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

First, I engaged in no ad hominem. Your tone was accusatory, but it doesn't matter. Second, the article itself states that many people do consider 'neo-confederate' and 'hate group' as synonymous, and so do the sources accusing groups of being neo-confederate. Third, the application of the label "neo-conservative" is controversial, AS STATED IN THE ARTICLE, yet this controversy is apparently not enough to stop anyone from doing so in an encyclopedia article with a supposed neutral tone. Fourth, I've addressed as many of my complaints regarding NPOV as I could without removing the disputed section. Fifth (I know you don't have a fifth, but I do), the article not only admits that accusations of neo-confederatism to non-secesionist organizations are controversial, but it then accuses non-secessionist groups of being neo-confederate, and it then cites references which it also admits are controversial. You are therefore using a single, controversial source to apply a controversial label to an organization, and I find that quite irresponsible. --Milton 01:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the middle ground would be to include a paragraph about the main leaders of the movement? That would give an opportunity to explain what their involvements with the movement are and why the sources categorize them this way. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 18:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I think a good start would be clarifying the movement's history, other than stating that it is a movement. --Milton 22:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, who is this Ed Sebesta person? Sure he has a Wikipedia entry, but his credentials are somewhat lacking. Is every loud-mouthed person with a blog and an agenda a reliable source for an encyclopedia? I find that most of these sources admit a bias, and most of the entries only have one source, which I find to be undersourced. --Milton 22:27, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Folks, I'll just come out with it. I am a native Tennessean, and a proud southern boy, and according to certain aspects of this article, a neo-confederate myself (I don't advocate secession or white supremacism). I am hereby recusing myself from this article's work, per WP:COI, and I want to convey my heartfelt apologies for wasted time and any hard feelings. I'll be more than happy to explain to any of you why the majority of Southernors could be labeled neo-confederate, and why there is such a large amount of southern pride, which seems to conflict with the majority opinions as such, on my talk page. Best wishes on improving this article, and Wikipedia as a whole. --Milton 01:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

"The article is about neo-confederates and naming who these people are is an integral part of the article." Sorry, no. It would be appropriate to name the leaders of the SPLC, for example, because they freely admit to being members. They willingly associated themselves with the organization. Labeling particular people "neo-cons" implies they willingly associate themselves publicly with the neo-con movement. Barring the existence of some official statement on the part of the individual being referred to as a neo-con acknowledging their acceptance of the term as an accurate descriptor of their ideology, their inclusion in this list is irresponsible and unacceptable. Unwarranted accusations like these have no place on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.225.132 (talk) 23:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of unsourced paragraph

I removed the following undocumented paragraph:

Given that its use may have a pejorative or disparaging connotation, the application of the term "neo-confederate" to groups that do not readily fit the description of a secessionist organization is controversial. The term is commonly employed by organizations on the political left, while many of the organizations it is applied to are on the political right. There is little consensus over which groups are properly termed "neo-confederate" and which are not, even among the organizations that monitor them.

My reasons:

1. The article does not allege, nor do historians discussing neo-confederates and the Lost Cause, that in order to be labeled neo-confederate the group MUST advocate current secession.

2. The left-right allegations are just that -- allegations. Especially where there are criticisms of Lincoln by neo-confederates, conservatives such as the Claremont Group and Dinesh D'Souza defend Lincoln. Sources are needed to back the original claim up.

3. I find a great deal of consensus among the sources cited as to what constitutes a neo-confederate -- there is no significant argument "among the organizations that monitor them". Tom (North Shoreman) 18:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this paragraph amounts to original research. · jersyko talk 18:56, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 20:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This Article is all pointless.

The word Neo-Confederate is a word invented by the SPLC. People are considered Neo-Confederate if they so much as touch a Confederate flag. Who is it to say who is a Neo-Confederate. The SPLC? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.82.9.87 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Why lower-case "neo-confederate"?

Will someone please explain why the term is deliberately lower-case in this article? The term is related to the Confederate States, right? It makes no sense to lower-case it, as far as I can see, yet clearly this was a deliberate choice. So why was the choice made? The issue is not discussed in the article. Is lower-case supposed to be P.C.? -- Rob C (Alarob) 13:52, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

It was decided here: [3], but without any particular reasoning or discussion. Another person raised the same question last year, #Why "Confederate" with a small c?. I have no object to "Neo-Confederate". ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:56, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the capitalization. That's the normal use pattern.Verklempt 23:07, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I opted for "neo-Confederate" by analogy with "neo[-]conservative" and because there is no formally organized organization that uses the term or names its own members "Neo-Confederate." I have asked an admin to move the article, and changed lower-case "confederate" to "Confederate" throughout. Noticed that someone must have gone through at some point and lower-cased all the C's, even in direct quotes. I checked one and found that it had been capitalized in the original. -- Rob C (Alarob) 15:36, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

P.S. See Wikipedia:Requested moves#July 2, 2007. -- Rob C (Alarob) 15:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. · jersyko talk 15:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My Apologies

Apologies are in order for an edit that I made yesterday. I had no idea that Morris Dees had named the Mises Institute as "Neoconfederate". I have received newsletters from Lew Rockwell for years (because I enjoy reading about Libertarian economics), and I had no idea of the other accusations. I respect Morris Dees and we agree on many things. I am as pro-civil rights as you can get, and my wife is a contributor to the SPLC. So, I will have to do some deeper research of the Mises Institute. Once again, I apologize for editing without doing research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.123.14.65 (talk) 20:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guilt by Allegation

The last section is unconscionable. A list of the allegations is not a NPOV, it's pure propaganda. Some of those on the list are there because they do not follow establishment orthodoxy. For example, criticism of Lincoln, belief in states rights or secession, etc. This list should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.113.203.3 (talk) 20:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it's complete crap. There seems to be only one user that keeps putting it back up. I wonder why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonnybobiche (talk • contribs) 03:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not our job to decide which groups or people do or don't follow or promote the neo-Confederate point of view. Our job, as encyclopedia editors, is to verifiably summarize reliable sourcee using the neutral point of view. The list is neutral and verifiable. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 18:43, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any way in which the SPLC or its associates can be construed as a unbiased (reliable) source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonnybobiche (talk • contribs) 00:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually the SPLC is constantly quoted by and referred to by newspapers whenever the subect is hate groups. You need to quit deleting sourced material until a consensus has been reached that agrees with you. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 00:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Sourced material? The Southern Poverty Law Center is a sham. Any moron can start a group that winds up being quoted by the media. The John Birch Society comes to mind. It has no business in an encyclopedic article. Perhaps YOU need to quit ADDING questionably sourced material until a consensus has been reached that agrees with you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.23 (talk) 06:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV tag

This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.Jjdon (talk) 18:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The article needs to be completely rewritten

This article needs to be completely rewritten. It isn't focused on what neo-Confederates believe but rather various grips individuals have.

I am on of the editors of "Neo-Confederacy: A Critical Introduction," University of Texas Press, Dec. 1 2008 release date.

http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/excerpts/exhagneo.html

This web page has the table of contents and the Introduction to the book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Newtknight (talk • contribs)

Thanks for the criticism. I'm sure you're right. Would you care to take a stab at doing the re-write? You're obvioulsy qualifiedand familiar with the material. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, it's inappropriate to add commentary to the article.[4] I appreciate that you want to help readers, but the best way to do that is to improve the article. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd be delighted to see a scholarly work that can separate individuals and groups with real mal intent from those who happen to be scholarly (or activist) historical revisionists on Civil War and/or pro-secession. And also not get into this guilt by association of people who may have had some passing affiliation with questionable people -- or who are dubious of all the politicized smears they hear against people. The whole issue has been used as a political battering ram based on poorly sourced or unsourced info from people making a buck scaring the heck out of wealthy contributors about all the neoconfederate neo-nazis running around. So fact based work without an ax to grind would be appreciated! This is article is low on my list of things to make less POV/WP:BLP violating, but so many wiki articles, so little time! Carol Moore 13:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc {talk}