Talk:Ned Maddrell
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[edit] Defence of Maddrell's status as a native speaker
I'm confused by the claim that Maddrell's status as a native speaker of Manx can be disputed. The basis the author uses for the dispute seems to be that Maddrell learned Manx from his great aunt (the implication being, presumably, that a true native speaker would learn it from their parents). But who a speaker learns a language from is irrelevant. This is attested to by the fact that the children of immigrants invariably learn, perfectly, the language of the host society (naturally from people other than their parents) if they are exposed to it in childhood. If Maddrell learned Manx young enough to be perfectly fluent – and it is stated that he did – and he used it as his everyday language of choice – which it appears that he did – then he was a native speaker. The same goes for Leslie Quirk, who is stated to have learned Manx as a child from his grandmother. Any linguist will tell you that proficiency in a language depends above all else on the age at which one is exposed to it, not on who is doing the exposing. James von Mann 00:22, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
- I don't think this is the only way to interpret the claim. Just as important as the age at which a language is learned is the amount of exposure to the language. Normally, a child will see more of its parents than of a great aunt. This being the case, native proficiency in a language is far more likely to be acquired from parents. Of course, it's quite possible that Maddrell lived with his great aunt, but until evidence of this is presented, I see no reason to change the article. Matve 11:44, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Neo-native speakers
I don't think that the native speakers of Manx today can be regarded as 'neo-native speakers'. It is different from the situation with the Hebrew speakers as there is a continuity with the Manx case. At the time Maddrell died there were already people who could spoke Manx and besides, we have recordings of other Manx speakers as well.
It can be argued as well for Hebrew, but Hebrew was a liturgical language. Meursault2004 (talk) 09:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
