Talk:Misty (Pokémon)

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Contents 1 Ash and Misty's relationship 2 Big issue with references 3 PokéShipping or No PokéShipping 4 Involving Misty's Return... 5 Reviving the PokéShipping debate... 6 wait wut 7 Copyedit 8 Relationship with Ash 9 removed a irrelevant statement two weeks ago. 10 Age 11 Misty's return 12 Copy Editing?

[edit] Ash and Misty's relationship

Is it necessary to have anything about it in the article? Every spoken Ash+Misty hint was added by the dubbers {especially in The Heartbreak of Brock, Wherefore Art Thou Pokemon?, and Gotta Catch Ya Later}, and Misty's Song isn't what most would consider solid evidence {it was released on a semi-official America-only non-canonical album, wasn't even sung by anyone who sounded even remotely like Misty, and NEVER specified who she was singing to}. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.218.157 (talk)

There seemed to be a lot of demand to have the information included in the article, and many editors, including unregistered, anonymous editors (like you!), were adding unreferenced information. At least the information now included in the article is cited, and it doesn't seem like there's any significant original research, either. --Brandon Dilbeck 18:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any of it is very significant. It's all dubber-added nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.218.157 (talk)

The dubbers can add whatever they want. Whether you like their changes or not, we have to cover it encyclopedically. --Brandon Dilbeck 18:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia, and since the hints were in the English version of the show it belongs in Misty's English article. -- The Hybrid 19:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but it's the JAPANESE team that CREATED the show and characters who decide which characters end up in a relationship. If you want ACTUAL evidence for a pairing in an anime, it's best to check the Japanese version first, not a rewritten Americanized dub. In this show's case, there is close to 0 actual hints of Ash and Misty having ANY sort of relationship in the original. And in this show's case, nothing more than friendship ever ended up forming between them. Misty wanted a bike, she got it, she left, plain and simple. 4Kids just wanted something to replace all the very strong Jessie+James hints they've removed over the years {particularly bad, and rather cheesy, was their rewriting of the 2nd movie so they could shove the idea down the audience's collective throat, along with the episodes previously mentioned, where they also rewrote scenes, often completely, just to push the OMG MISTY LOVES ASH AND JESSIE AND JAMES HATE EACH OTHER LOL mentality that so many Ash+Misty supporters on the internet seem to share}.

And are you actually trying to defend 4Kids, the worst dubbing company in America? {No, wait, scratch that--they don't even dub anime anymore, they horribly butcher and Americanize it beyond recognition.} Do you see any other company adding relationships that don't exist, or taking out existing ones? No. 4Kids should learn to stay as true to the original as possible, and localize a show right the first time or not at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.219.113 (talk • contribs)

I see that you are really adamant about this. Read over the section in the article. It states that, in America, there was/is a major fandom that believes Misty has a crush on Ash. That is a fact. It states that the reason is certain clues from the anime. Regardless of 4Kids involvement, this is also a fact, as there were clues in the English anime. Regardless of who put them in the anime, they were in there. The entire section is sourced. If you would like to provide sources for what you are saying, then I would be more than willing to add a paragraph on how 4Kids tampered with the scripts to create this shipping fandom. Also, ranting about the evil 4Kids is not productive. We can't ignore what they did because we don't like it. That is not the way of the true encyclopedian (cue flute and piccolo music, and Native American chanting). Word up, home slice. -- The Hybrid 22:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

And I won't defend anyone. I don't have to. They did what they wanted to, and as an encyclopedian it is my job to simply deal with it. Complaining about it doesn’t benefit me in any way. It just wastes my time and energy while changing absolutely nothing. -- The Hybrid 22:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

4kids dosen't even show Pokemon on there anymore, only Cartoon Network. (and Cartoon Network dosen't even show reruns of Pokemon Advanced! The only reruns they show are season 1, season 2, and last week's Diamond and Pearl episode! were's all the Johto and Hoenn!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.223.96.116 (talk) 00:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Big issue with references

I never really checked before now, but I've realized that the sources we are using in this article are dismal. Writing citations and attributions usually isn't my cup of tea, but it's obvious to me that what we have here is largely unacceptable. There are currently 17 footnoted citations. I am listing them here in case they are changed later:

I don't really have anything to say about References 1–5. It's References 6–17 that present us with problems and difficult decisions. These references are all referred to by the Relationship with Ash section. You see, as recently as a few months ago, many editors were adding unverified information on the romance between the characters Ash and Misty without adding any citations and these additions were being reverted. So the information was readded, perhaps by different editors. A cycle was created. Then someone, I forget who, and it isn't important now, rewrote the section, supplying it with a lot of references. The problem is that I don't think most of these references would comply with Wikipedia's attribution policy (WP:A).

References 6–9 look like a childish fan site that contains only speculation and I can't put a lot of trust into it—a quotation: "it's just really cute because Brock is caught up in some spell thingy with the girl and Ash and Misty try and break him out of it and go on their on mission thing ^_~" It doesn't sound at all professional to me.

References 13 and 17 attribute Bulbapedia. I am of the opinion that WE SHOULD NOT BE CITING BULBAPEDIA. That encyclopedia seems to be full of missing information and low article standards. And neither of those Bulbapedia articles demonstrate any attribution. And Reference 17 says that it "does not yet meet the quality standards of Bulbapedia"—we can't be citing something that's been pointed out as not meeting quality standards. I'm not saying that we should be holding Bulbapedia to Wikipedia's standards, but the site is similar in appearance so they probably copied standards as well.

References 14–16 might be the cream of the crop of bad pickins. I'll just state immediately that 14 and 15 return what appear to be 404 errors! I'm sure they weren't 404 errors when they were first cited, but they can't stay. And in any case, we shouldn't be citing petitions. The article uses the citations to demonstrate that there are indeed petitions, and I think there's some problem with this. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I think it falls along the lines of using original research.

So I think we need to make a decision; some action needs to be taken somehow. These references aren't doing a good job of giving the section a good foundation, and the section can't stand by itself anyway. So I think the section needs to be taken down. --Brandon Dilbeck 08:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, I should have done some digging around before writing all that, but a similar discussion has occurred in the past: Talk:Misty (Pokémon)/Archive 1#Shipping --Brandon Dilbeck 08:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Ya, you should have, especially as I spent around an 5 days searching for the shipping theory sources. And someone's been using {{cite episode}}, i think that's a good idea for the direct observations. To work, Wikians! --The Raven's Apprentice^{(Profile|PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 07:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PokéShipping or No PokéShipping

I think we need to decide whether or not this shouldn't be included in the article or not once and for all. Although I will admit that I am a PokéShipper, it may be better to leave this out in order to gain some appeal with different shippers in the series (namely AdvanceShippers), but when I first saw this article without even mentioning this, it felt weird. I believe it is a relevent part of her character, even though it hasn't been openly confirmed or proven. This is complicated by the fact that most of the hints of Misty liking Ash are only in the English dub, and not in the original Japanese version. I know that both the English and Japanese versions of Pokémon: The Movie 2000, have roughly the same script, and the sub-theme of the entire film is the possibilty of Misty having a crush on Ash. Now here is an instance is strangely only the Japanese version of Pokémon Chronicles and NOT in the English version.

In the Japanese version episode, "A Date With Delcatty" (titled "Kasumi Shinken Shoubu! Mei Kakemasu!?" in Japan), when Misty and Casey first meet Georgio, who admits to having a crush on Misty. This dialogue then occurs (I can't remember if it's exactly like this or not):

• Misty: "No, I won't go on a date with you."
• Georgio: "Wh-why not? Is there some other boy you like?"
• Misty: "Uh..."
• Casey: "Yeah, is there?"
• Misty: "Umm..." (while blushing)
• Casey: "There is, isn't there?!"

(At this moment, Psyduck appears out of Poké Ball)

• Misty: "What do you want?" (while facing Psyduck)

(Psyduck then gives Misty a huge mocking smile, Misty gets angry and has it come back into its ball)

You would really have to watch it to see this, but it implies that even Psyduck believes that Misty has a crush on Ash, and I bring up this hint up because, One: It isn't very well known and/or not mentioned very often, which leads me to number two: it's only in the Japanese version. And Three: To me, this moment confirms that Misty at least has a crush on somebody, because if she didn't, she would have easily said something like, "No, it's not that.", when Georgio asked if she liked someone else. And if that boy she liked was Tracey, for example, Casey already met Tracey eariler in the episode and she would have mentioned Tracey at that moment. Adding this situation to the numerous hints of PokéShipping in past episodes would logically confirm that Misty has feelings for Ash, but that's just me.

Despite that it hasn't been openly confirmed, people have been adding things like this, which can be found at the end of the Hoenn and beyond section:

• According to Misty's Japanese voice actress, Mayumi Iizuka, Misty will return later in the Diamond and Pearl series. It is unknown whether it will be a return to the main cast or just a guest appearance. In the series she will tell Ash her secret, that she has feelings for him.

Although I can't disprove the last sentence in that paragraph, I pretty sure that someone just added it because that person wants to see that, unless there's an existing source somewhere that can prove it. Any comments on this? 206.66.217.143 22:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Detractors would point out that Ash is never mentioned but it's still conclusive proof that she has a crush on somebody. We could go into an explanation of how Ash is the most likely candidate but that probably wouldn't fit Wikipedia's style.

Mayumi Iizuka did mention on her blog [1] that Misty would make an appearance but that has already happened since she presented the stuff around the tenth anniversary.--Sonic Mew 11:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Pokes Misty's Song from the 2BAMaster CD. Quite obvious. trainra 11:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I've taken out the last sentence of that quote. Even if she does return, we can't state that she will announce her feelings since a source for that does not exist. --Sonic Mew 11:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

First, I wouldn't count Misty's Song, because I'm pretty sure that was never in Japan. I think was only released in America; I'm not sure about other regions like Europe. So while it is overt, it still doesn't truly confirm it. But then again, why else would have this song been made? Anyway, I think if the explanation is logical enough, we could add it to the article. 206.66.217.142 19:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Now someone added it again, this time in the Relationship with Ash section:

Since the Pokémon: Advanced season, however, support for PokéShipping has considerably waned, since Misty has been removed from the main cast. However Misty will return in Diamond and Pearl and she is going to tell Ash her secret that she has feelings for him.

And once again, there's no source to prove this at all. What should be done about this? 206.66.217.144 15:34, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Anyone know what this Pokemon Beware thing posted on Misty's page is? There's no link or nothing! sonicmaster1223

I have no idea what this Pokémon Beware thing is. It might just be the name of someone's fanfic or something like that; I doubt that it is or will become an official part of Pokémon franchise. I would delete unless there is link to that you can find to prove this. There have also been people adding stuff like that when Misty returns, she'll reveal to Ash that she has feelings for her. Would this be counted as vandalism? 206.66.217.140 20:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I meant to do this earlier, but I have the following questions that I would like someone to answer:

• 1. Did "Misty's Song" appear on the 2BAMaster CD anywhere other then the U.S. (most importantly Japan)?

• 2. I know that most hints of Misty liking Ash were in the dub, but don't the companies that does the dub of Pokémon and anime, in general, have to get permission from the original creators in Japan to add, delete, or change something?

• 3. Did the commentary of Pokémon: The First Movie say that Misty has a crush on Ash or not?, And if it did, wouldn't this tell us something? I've never heard the commentary, but I have heard that the commentators pointed it out.

• 4. Does anyone know of an old commercial for a Pokémon toy featuring a boy and someone in a Psyduck costume, where they were playing handball or something, and behind the Psyduck, there was a wall had graffiti on it relating to Pokémon, and near on the bottom left corner, it said "Misty loves Ash!"? And if you do remember that commercial, wouldn't this also tell us something?

• 5. At the end of the first half of the episode, "Gotta Catch Ya Later!", Misty gives Ash a handkerchief. I've recently heard that in Japanese culture, a girl would give a handerchief to a boy that she had a crush on. Is this true or not? And if it is true, wouldn't this, yet again, tell us something? 206.66.217.140 21:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I can only reply to the first point: I doubt the CD was released in Japan. The song did appear in the European and Latin American versions. --The Raven's Apprentice^{(Profile|PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 07:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

All right, I am going to clear up some stuff for you.

1. That CD was released outside of Japan for profit reasons, it was created in America, so it shouldn't be counted as canon.

2. You have a point in terms of their needing permission to edit. however, sometimes they do it WITHOUT their permission. a notable example is the first movie (did you really think all of the stuff they said in that movie was in the japanese original? no, they completely changed Mewtwo's personality, Mew was made out to be free of sin, despite the fact that he actually had some responsibility, they placed "Brother, My Brother" at the completely wrong time, plus they mixed up 3 pokemon (Pigeotto/Pigeot issue, and the issue involving Alakazam/Scyther amd Sandshrew/Sandslash had absolutely no excuse.), the signposts from Johto up to their last few episodes before PUSA/TAJ took over is also quite notable, since that scribble language was created for the sole purpose of stopping the mass erasures of signs by 4kids.

3. if this was in the dub of the first movie, don't count on it. that commentsry also had them using that excuse that they knew the mistakes involving pokemon, but left them in to have kids point out the mistakes, and they also admitted that they took matters into their own hands to completely "dumb it down" and Americanize it.

4. that is a commercial designed to advertise the newest pokemon toys, that commercial is probably as canon as Pokemon Live (which means, not canon at all, not even close.)

5. As for the handkerchief issue, it is hard to say if that was a part of japanese custom, however, even if that is the reason, that isn't the only explanation. Ash was crying at the sight that his friends are going away (possibly forever), so Misty most likely gave him that handkerchief to dry those tears and to cheer him up. You know, sort of like what happened in Sonic and the secret rings where (spoilers) shara was crying over that evil Genie being possibly gone forever, so Sonic wished for a mountain of handkerchiefs, so Shara can cry as long as she needs to.(end spoilers) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.169 (talk • contribs)

The question here is not whether the ship exists, but whether it should be covered. We have a whole bunch of official stuff pointing to it, the commercial is just another one of them. And though 4Kids, at least, tried to hype and promote the ship, probably without the Japanese producers' permission, you'll have to concede that it owed the rights to dub and air the anime, and its views are therefore higly notable. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice^{(Profile|PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 16:11, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for answering my questions. The answers make sense, but I'm still kind of stuck on the last question I asked. Now, I remember Brock giving Ash a small container of food in "Gotta Catch Ya Later!" and then Misty wrapped the container in the handerchief, claiming that it "makes it easy to carry", which really didn't any sense to me, seeing that Brock could carry it just fine. And where Misty says, "Well, Ash Ketchum, finally, I know how you feel about me.", I think in the Japanese version of the episode, she says like "There is a secret message in that handkerchief...", but I'm not 100% certain. I'm also pretty sure that the two hints mentioned in that paragraph, ("Someday, you and I will be married, too." from "The Heartbreak of Brock" and Misty's goodbye song in "Gotta Catch Ya Later!"), were dub-added. I don't know what was said there in the Japanese version of "The Heartbreak of Brock", but instead of that goodbye song, it showed Misty's accoplishments as a Water Pokémon Trainer up until that point, and her relationship with not just Ash, but with Brock and even Tracey. I just not sure if we should have dub-exclusive hints. That's why I added Pokémon: The Movie 2000, because the hinting throughout the film is the nearly identical, or at least comparable, in both the English and Japanese versions. The film even have a song at end of the Japanese version that hints towards Pokéshipping (the name of the song escapes at the moment). Do you think that those first two hints should stay, even though they were dub-added? I mean, we could say that they were dub-added, but would that help or not? 206.66.217.144 23:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think the section ought to include an overall review of how the dub's been adding hints all through. Thoughts? --The Raven's Apprentice^{(Profile|PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 06:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

That sounds pretty good. I mean, I am a Pokéshipper, but I'm aware that there are quite a few hints (especially the better known ones, such as the two that have been included in the section) that were added in the dub. But the biggest problems with this that I can see are that we don't really know which ones were added and which ones weren't, do we? And I have a feeling that the review could get pretty lengthly. Plus, wouldn't we have to figure out which ones are the most noteworthy? 206.66.217.141 19:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello! Don't you remember the episode when these two kids lose their nidorans? well, the nidorans love each other, and at the end of the episode, the nidorans kiss and evolve. Then Ash says, "so when you get kissed you change?" and Misty says, "We'll just have to find out, won't we Ash?" TA-DA! all you need right in a sentence!

[edit] Involving Misty's Return...

I think you should use a source to reference how you got it. I know what the source is, so I will give it to you (though i do hope that it meets wiki-standards) it's Mayumi Iizuka's blog, which of course can be accessed from Bulbanews. If the Bulbanews article wasn't enough to count as a source, then the Seiyu of Misty's blog sure would be!

The source is now there, but someone added this:

• According to Misty's Japanese voice actress, Mayumi Iizuka, Misty will return later in the Diamond and Pearl series. It is confrimed that Misty will come back in later episodes as a main character.

• It says [citation needed] after that last sentence, and I look at the edit page and it says "Fact|date=June 2007" after that sentence, so does that mean it's true? 206.66.217.142 22:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

No, it means that it's unconfirmed crap. I'll be deleting the second sentence now. --The Raven's Apprentice^{(Profile|PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 16:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• Must you people always be so negative? Come on! If there is even a possibility that she might return, well, that's good enough for me. We'll just have to sit back, be patient, and see what happens. In-U-Face 20:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Yep, and add it to the article if and only if our patience pays off. --The Raven's Apprentice ^{(PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 02:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think if her Japanese voice actress mentions it, it must be a noteworthy appearance, at least more noteworthy than her appearances in the Advanced Generation series, anyway. But still, it's not truly confrirmed if she'll be back as a main character. 206.66.217.141 21:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The article already says her Japanese VA says she's gonna return. The rest is left to the speculation of readers. --The Raven's Apprentice ^{(PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 14:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• I agree with what 206.66.217.141 says. If Mayumi says it, then it at least comes from a reliable source. Besides, I doubt she would willingly lie to so many fans. At least I hope she wouldn't.

In-U-Face 22:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've removed this section as the blog was Japanese, if you can find a notable English site that states this and preferably NOT a blog, it may be added again. See WP:LINKS SpigotMap 22:16, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

ok, first off, although it may be a blog, it is still very reliable since this is a VA Blog, which is much more reliable than some random persons blog, besides, let's just remove all stuff confirmed in a blog/interview of anything in relation to stuff that is about to come out that was from people linked to it if we must assure that there is 0% blogs on wikipedia. and second of all, even if it is in japanese, that isn't the only source that i have in regards to this subject. I got the VA Blog info on misty's return from it's news article from Bulbanews article called "Kasumi to make an appearance in Anime", and plus, this isn't in japanese, and it isn't a blog (in the traditional sense at least). As a matter of fact, this Bulbanews article is the reason why we even knew of this blog in the first place.

Third of all, the blog IS in Japanese or some Asian language. Sources/Cites are to be in English only on the English Wikipedia. Fourth of all, your Original Research is not for Wikipedia. Fifth of all, speculation about future events is unencyclopedic, unless confirmed by several sources including the publisher, but still not very welcome on an encyclopedia. Sixth of all, a fansite wiki is not generally considered a reliable source. Seventh of all, please sign your comments, thanks. SpigotMap 02:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Well... although it may be true that it is in Japanese, it doesn't really mean that you should delete it. Besides, there are exceptions to the non-english weblinks, like if it's an official site where it doesn't really have an english equivalent, if the link is to the subjects text in it's original language, or if it has diagrams/maps/tables that act as visual aids. While it isn't techically an official site, it is pretty close to one. And also, in regards to blogs, you are right in that they are not usually recommended. However, it also stated that the exception to that rule is if these blogs were written by a recognized authority, and last time I checked, Mayumi Iizuka, a Japanese VA, and of course, the Voice of Misty/Kasumi, is a recognized authority, So in that sense, it is a reliable source. Also, since when did I do Original research here? You do have a point, though, that we can't do future speculation, so how about we just leave it at "Mayumi Iizuka, the seiyuu (VA) of Misty, has hinted in her Blog that Misty may appear in the Anime."? Also, in regards to Wiki Fansites, last time I checked, unlike Wikipedia, where pretty much anyone can edit it, Bulbapedia (or even Bulbanews) has to have members edit material (that is, if you aren't a member and try to edit it, it links you to a sign in/registration page.). So, wouldn't that qualify under a stable history and a substantial number of editors? As for your seventh point, I will sign it now, Happy? Weedle McHairybug.

How does having to sign up make it have stable history and substantial editors? From the looks of the articles, it's written by a bunch of 12 year olds. How notable is that? Also, sign with ~~~~, typing out your name doesn't work. SpigotMap 13:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Point one: The blog wasn't any random person's, as pointed out. Point two: As for Japanese, WP:RS states: "Where editors use their own English translation of a non-English source as a quote in an article, there should be clear citation of the foreign-language original, so that readers can check what the original source said and the accuracy of the translation." SOFIXIT. Translate instead of removing. --The Raven's Apprentice ^{(PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 15:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Seems we've settled this then. I'm satisfied with it the way it is now, mainly I was just concerned about the links/references to geocities fan sites in the "PokeShipping" piece of the article. Glad we could settle it. SpigotMap 06:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, it seems that someone has removed the info, so i took the liberty to add it back into the article. And not only that, but i also added back in the previous source, as well as added in the source that was the reason as to why we even knew of the March the 6th blog in the first place, so please don't try to remove it again. Weedle Mchairybug —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.199.97 (talk) 23:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Personaly, this info was on a japanese person's blog, so how do we know it's true in america? they could cut the whole thing out and leave it for japan! and also, im 12, so HA! i don't call that crap! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.223.96.116 (talk) 00:30, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

We only put what we know,not what we think we know. I've heard Misty will come back soon. I totally want her to replace Dawn. -Anime27 life is full of wonders (talk) 04:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reviving the PokéShipping debate...

PokéShipping gained a cult following on the Internet and elsewhere, with several online petitions demanding Nintendo overtly depict them as lovers.^[1][2][3] Since the Pokémon: Advanced season, however, support for PokéShipping has considerably waned, since Misty has been removed from the main cast. Another factor in the fall of support was the birth of "AdvanceShipping", the belief that Ash and May, his traveling companion in the Hoenn story arc, have crushes on each other.^[4]

I know this is silly, I wrote all that in the first place. But, after a reread about six months on, this doesn't really seem to be in line with policy. Everything else in the section can be confirmed, but this can't. The cult status and the waning of popularity are true enough, but per Wikipedia's "Verifiability, not truth" policy, it counts as original research and we're not supposed to mention that until a reliable secondary source has covered it. As such, I've moved this off the page for the time being. --The Raven's Apprentice ^{(PokéNav|Trainer Card)} 11:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wait wut

There is no way this article is high priority for Wikipedia 1.0.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Dawn is "top" priority for some reason. We need to form some consensus on priorities. SpigotMap 01:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Dawn is just a replacement for May, so Pokemon can keep their girl pokemon fans.

[edit] Copyedit

This article, or a portion of it, was copyedited by the League of Copyeditors in October 2007. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

[edit] Relationship with Ash

It's completely fancrufty and seems pretty irrelevant to the page. No other Pokemon pages have shipping sections like this (with the possible exception of Team Rocket (anime). I advocate deletion of this section because fan speculation (aka shipping) does not a Wikipedia page make (also of the basis of WP:NOT, WP:OR, and WP:V). MelicansMatkin 01:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree. It seems to have stayed because a director hinted it *might* be true. However, the only thing to be mentioned by this reference is to be only what the director said. Anything else is constituting Original Research. Another example would be if a director hinted that "Someone will be lost next season" does not mean fans can speculate in the article who might be leaving. SpigotMap 01:43, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the section. As I was saying before accidentally hitting the enter button on edit summary. Yes the episodes are sourced, but the section is not. A section like that can not be reliably sourced because it is completely original research, there is no way to prove that this theory of pokeshipping exists. SpigotMap 01:45, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

(EDIT CONFLICT): Who was the director? Was it one of the original producers, or just an English translator? If the latter I definitely say to get rid of it. The English directors really aren't that knowledgeable about the series (IIRC, in the director's commentary of the 3rd movie dub, they said that Ash's Noctowl evolved from his HootHoot, and that an appearance by Ash's father was going to happen in Master Quest). (Not Edit Conflict): Yeah, I agree. Speculation and OR are the only things that sustain Pokeshipping, and therefore the things that prohibit a mention. MelicansMatkin 01:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

yeah, i agree, since in order for the crush to exist, the original writers, the seiyuus, or even the characters must have confirmed it in the original japanese version. and unless they are a branch of the original japanese creators, the english producers cannot give any say as to whether Misty has a crush on ash (or even shipping as a whole) in the series. Speaking of English directors talking about the series, didn't PUSA mention something about Misty coming back in sinnoh in the special features of "Pokemon Ranger and the temple of the sea"? now granted, it was the english directors, so it might not be true, but, PUSA is more closer, more knowledgeable and more accurate to the japanese version than 4kid could ever be (not to mention that it IS the american branch of the main HQ), and not to mention that Mayumi Iizuka mentioned sometime after in her blog the hint at Misty's return... so, who knows, maybe Misty's return is more possible after all. Though I may add in that source for Misty's return after I watch the special features. Oh, and speaking of sources. Please don't eliminate the Mayumi Iizuka blog and the bulbanews article. I have already stated my reasons as to why we should keep at least the Mayumi Iizuka blog source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.141.224 (talk) 11:23, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Misty was never slated to appear. What her Japanese VA was referring to was the fact that she would host the 10th anniversary special. Misty was never supposed to appear. MelicansMatkin 11:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

If there is realy a crush, isn't it fun to figure that out? Like recording old episodes and listening to every word the peolple say, figuring out the "code". i say it's fun, even if they are friends.

Just so long as it isn't mentioned in the article. MelicansMatkin (talk) 00:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Fancrufty? I researched and I found out that there are a few hints that Ash and Misty are in love. First, that Advanced Battle episode. Misty could've waited at her gym, not at Ash's house. And how about the time Ash got mad at Rudy for proposing to Misty? Pokemon Buffy Titan (talk) 12:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

There are hints for relationships between Ash and May, Ash and Latias, Misty and Tracey, Misty and Max, May and Drew, Ash and Gary, the list goes on and on. A hint is not a verifiable fact. The creators of Pokemon and the anime directors have neither confirmed or denied a prospective romance with Ash. Each hint is nothing more than that; a hint. It's open to a fans interpretation and completely uncomfirmable. Speculation has no place on Wikipedia. MelicansMatkin (talk) 13:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Ash and Gary? Ur crazy! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.23.173.89 (talk) 23:21, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Relationship with Ash keeps being readded by anonymous IPs. I suggest that we stop simply reverting and begin to post vandalism warnings on their talk pages whenever it is reinstated. MelicansMatkin (talk) 01:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I've been editing the Misty page to add in Relationship with Ash and all I said was there were hints that she like him some from Ash too but isn't confirmed because there's isn't a source with official proof and she never said it in the anime. Pretty simple and true compare to the old draft. However people keep editing it out because they said it a matter of opinion to say that the "hints" means she MIGHT have a crush on Ash because it isn't confrimed. What upsets me is there ALOT of other shippings where they say the characters might have a crush but it isn't confirmed they do here on wikipedia. Like no ones editing contestshipping (DrewxMay) from Drew's profile! I would like for people to start editing these other shippings even from other animes, games and shows if there going to edit Misty's! I found 7 examples of this to see them go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shipping_%28fandom%29#Request_of_editing_out_Shippings_and_question_about_editing_out_shippings Look at the examples in the same link^Why is pokeshipping being COMPLETELY ignore on this site simply because we don't know if Misty likes Ash?!! EternalSunlight (talk) 09:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This has been discussed to death over and over again. It is against policy to include any shipping information. It's not just this page, it should be removed from every page. It's being ignored because it's just fancruft. This really shouldn't need to be discussed again after all of the discussions above. WP:V, WP:OR, WP:NOT MelicansMatkin (talk) 11:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Well for one maybe why this keep getting discussed is that you are being unclear and there something else we can do that doesn't breaks the rules of WP:V, WP:OR, WP:NOT. You said there's a no shipping info policy that's saying it doesn't matter if the shipping is canon or proven that at least one character likes the other that can't be mention because it's shipping. What I think you meant is only shipping info that is proven true can be mention for none of WP:V, WP:OR, WP:NOT say anything about shipping in general being wrong. So saying Misty might has a crush on Ash is a opinion but saying Misty has blushes when confronted with the idea of being romantic involve with Ash, and She has argues with girls who like Ash but the reason why is up to interpretation.is just stating facts not a opinion because it has happen in the anime. Now it's a matter of whether that is to much additional infomation. Same goes for if Misty kisses Ash if we say she does but not why she does it stating a fact also I can understand why minor hints would be too much info but for something like Misty kissing a guy is big. I'm not talking about for pokeshipping's sake but for Misty's character development. And If it happens it will probably be put under "hoenn and beyond" after future information of her return that is the one when she kisses him. The minor hints from the season she was in could go under "as the main character" after the line "Misty actually forgot why she started traveling with him in the first place." would be a good place to put it. This way there's no relationship with Ash section and we can avoid saying that Misty might have a crush. I haven't found any disscussion about what's consider too much info (if you know or find one post it). But I did find this WP:COI under Non-controversial edits # 5 says: "Making edits that have been agreed to on the talk page". So if I can get people to agree to it can I please be allow to put either the minor hints (w/out saying they are "hints") or/and say Misty kissed Ash (only if it happens) in her profile? Ok I put the minor hints since no one is posting here to get people attention. Also need to put the episode I mention in the reference. And in 2010 if the DP series is coming to a close and Ash is going back to kanto was Misty is I'm bringing this debate back up. Please say your give it a chance. EternalSunlight (talk) 02:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Misty has never kissed Ash in the anime. I'll try to be more clear about the stance on shipping. Shipping is a belief that two characters in a fandom may be romantically involved. Key word in that sentence: belief. The point and purpose of Wikipedia is to construct an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia is a database of facts. Everything mentioned in an article should be backed up by a reliable source. The facts have to be verifiable, and there should be no doubt about them; they need to be iron-clad. Shipping is never iron-clan. It is an interpretation of a friendship or rivalry between two or more characters in a franchise. Ash and Misty is shipping, while something like Norman and Caroline isn't because those two are a confirmed couple. That is why shipping can not be included in articles. It's an interpretation, which is original research. It's fancrufty, which is not the purpose of Wikipedia. And no shipping is ever truly verifiable. MelicansMatkin (talk) 05:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Why are you tellng me Misty never kissed Ash? I didn't say she did. I see your point about Fireworksshipping {Norman x Caroline} is a canon but it has a shipping name. So if pokeshipping were to happen I guess it would no longer be a shipping. However, you have yet to show me a rule about triviality. I think this might be one:WP:NOTE It's about informantion being notable, or "worthy of notice". and how popularity is different but still one reason for it. Trivality is the only reason you edit my ideas for you said your self the facts about the anime doesn't equal shipping thus those facts weren't shipping yes they can be interpretate as shipping, but I didn't give any interpretation of those facts. I understand that those minor hints are too trivial (now seeing you wouldn't even allow Ash remembering Misty with the lure) so I won't be putting them back but for the third time please answer my question:

First time: My question is if Misty were to kiss Ash on the cheek (or even on the lips doubtfully)Would that not be a good enough to mention in her Bio?

Second time: Can I please be allow to say Misty kissed Ash if she does (but not state why I think she does) in her profile?

Third time: Since I wasn't clear the first two times I'll word it right: Is it too trivial to mention she kissed Ash if it becomes a fact? Please also state why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokemon_Heroes. and secondly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Zoids:Chaotic_Century_Characters a kiss happened and Van x Fiona aren't a couple and it wasn't confrimed they had romantic feelings but it was still mention. EternalSunlight (talk) 02:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

If it becomes a fact, then that *could* be mentioned. But that has yet to happen AFAIK. RegalStar (talk) 19:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much for answering. There are million fake pics of it and like a billion rumors but no it has never happen. Also I'm glad that spoilers are allow here even if they haven't occurred outside Japan so I can be the first to post the news and not wait. EternalSunlight (talk) 01:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

What about when Misty said to Ash, "You and I will be married someday too..." to which Ash replies, "Mmhmm....Whaaaa!?!?!?!" Ladder4321 (talk) 15:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

In that episode, Brock was (potentially) going to be married to a character of the day. Misty and Ash were contemplating that when Misty said that comment. It in no way implies that Misty meant they would be married to each other. For the last time, Pokeshipping is not going to be included in the article. It absolutely fails every single criteria and policy that Wikipedia has outlining this kind of thing. MelicansMatkin (talk) 17:36, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Saying Misty kissed Ash's cheek (if it happens) isn't the same as saying pokeshipping is fact. EternalSunlight/Melody93 207.157.80.131 (talk) 20:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

She actually likes him, and I'm know that Haruka/May sorta likes Brock. If you saw this episode when this girl was talking to Brock about getting married... well heres what ash and misty say after:

Ash:Brock getting married? Wow. Misty: Yep. And someday we'll be married too. Ash: Yeah. Ash: WHAT??

That's How I remember it correctly. -Anime27 life is full of wonders (talk) 04:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] removed a irrelevant statement two weeks ago.

About two weeks ago, I removed this statement out of the article (check the history log):

She likes many typical "girly" and romantic things, but she is also very much a tomboy.

Ok, I removed this statement for several reasons. One, I feel that it is a POV. Two, the statement is a bit contradictory (tomboy in definition is a girl who acts and dresses up as a boy, and three, there is little or no evidence to support this (particularly in the anime, it was never said).

In such, I removed this irrelevant statement out of the article. Hopefully, you guys would agree with me on this. --Dark paladin x (talk) 20:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually Misty said she like romantic things like (mt.moon, sunsets, french things) it early episodes. And on her voice actor Mayumi Iizuka calls her the toyboyish mermaid. And the times Ash called her ungirlly. There's a word for tomboy in japan and probably been mention in the japanese version. I don't know if that good enough evidence to put that line back. EternalSunlight (talk) 09:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Age

In cartoon alot people say that she was 10 years old when she first met Ash and i believe it76.112.23.57 (talk) 22:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

They say Kasumi even said she was 10 in the japanese version. This is the problem with dubbed anime everything is unclear. EternalSunlight (talk) 23:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

So Misty did admitted herself that she was 10 in the japanese version but how come in the english version she didn't say that? 76.112.23.57 (talk) 02:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

As for why she didn't say that in the dub Well she didn't even said her age at all but I guess with her being a gym leader she should be older then Ash. EternalSunlight (talk) 03:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You said in the japanese version Misty admitted she was 10 and i believe somewere in the english version she did say she was 10 76.112.23.57 (talk) 04:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you edit out my first comment? I don't remember if copy and paste it there or not (I had log in issues because I spent time trying to find out if Dogasu mention her age and guess what he did in her profile: http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/human_bios/char-kasumi.html) Dogasu lives in Japan and has watch the japanese series he should be right.

The reason I wasn't sure was I meant that fan's said that she said she was 10 I didn't meant a official source. Sorry for the misunderstanding I needed to be clearer. I don't know if she said it in the english version I don't remember it. EternalSunlight (talk) 04:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Misty is 10 because here are two websites http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/human_bios/char-kasumi.html and http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Misty 76.112.23.57 (talk) 04:41, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

We also need to add that to the profile. EternalSunlight (talk) 06:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Then add it76.112.23.57 (talk) 06:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you add it? I don't want to get in trouble for editing her profile again. EternalSunlight (talk) 23:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Neither of those are official sources. -Sukecchi (talk) 00:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Fansites and wikis do not qualify. Find a different source, one that doesn't have the composition of an indecisive shape-mocker. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 00:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well thats all i heard Misty is 10 years old 76.112.23.57 (talk) 03:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

In order to add it, you are going to have to provide a reliable source saying that. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 03:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The episode itself would be enough of a source. MelicansMatkin (talk) 05:06, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Misty's return

You know... If Pokemon wasn't created in Japan and you said the exact same thing you just did here, I would have agreed with you here, but, since the Japanese were the creators of pokemon, and they are the ones who make the final decision (though they could be persuaded by people other than themselves to do these things [the Fanbase and the Producer's role in both removing brock and reinstating him comes to mind.].), I highly doubt that they would cut that out. and anyways, that "Japanese person" you referred to is her Original show's Seiyuu (and when I say Original, I mean the Japanese version since, as i said, it was created there), so thats good enough for me.

And anyways, I sincerely doubt that Mayumi Iizuka meant those trivia segments in her blog (much less the Japanese airing of The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon.) since according to the Bulbanews translation of this blog, it said that she had pretty much confirmed that she was doing specials for the Anime's 10th anniversary BEFORE she made the hint at it (the future appearance.) (ask "Zhen Lin" if you don't believe me, since He's the guy who wrote the bulbanews article in the first place).

And besides which, It can't be referring to her role in the (Japanese) "10th Anniversary special" because it's first airing (and, as far as we know, it's ONLY airing) was on October 13th,2006, almost six months before she even wrote the blog entry. If she was trying to tell us that, she would have told us at least a few days before the event.

So therefore, I think that little tidbit should be reinstated. And mention that it is debatable as to whether Mayumi Iizuka meant a return to the main cast or just a brief appearance right now. And I already listed my reasons as to why we should at least use the Japanese blog as the source. I am keeping the sources in and that's final. and should anyone try to edit it out again, I will add it back in anyways, and maybe even report the person in question (that is, if unregistered people can report people).

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.245 (talk) 21:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, Umm... Eternal Sunshine, I am messaging you here in response to what you said when you deleted the thing I typed in. The source in question that I was referring to is, As you mentioned, the Mayumi Iizuka blog, But I also have another source, The original Bulbanews Article. See Here:

http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Kasumi_to_make_appearance_in_anime

If you read this, It says that Mayumi Iizuka is doing specials for the 10th anniversary of the anime, and that she HINTS at a future appearance sometime. Here is the way it is translated, she pretty much confirms that she was doing specials for the 10th Anniversary of the anime. That's a given. HOWEVER, She also hints immediately after that that Misty will make a future appearance sometime in Diamond and Pearl. It couldn't have been referring to specials, since she has just confirmed them prior to the hint.

And besides, if the Hint comes from a seiyuu of the character in the original version in regards to something like this, That seems to be official enough for me to add it in as a source. It's no different than you guys adding in several director/writers comments in regards to a future piece they are working on.

And Yes, I know I am telling you this in public, but since I am a unregistered user, I'm not sure if I could even PM you, even though I would want to.

Anyways, that's all for now,

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.245 (talk) 03:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

P.S. I forgot to mention that, Zhen Lin had to have translated the blog from the Original Japanese into english in order for him to say that in his "Kasumi to make appearance in anime" article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.245 (talk) 03:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Bulbanews is not a reliable source. What Misty's Japanese VA said has been completely blown out of proportion. All that she ever said she was doing was hosting the tenth anniversary special. She never said anything about an appearance by Misty in D/P, and a "hint" is not a verifiable fact. Besides that, these comments were made almost a year ago. There is nothing in them to say that Misty is returning, and we have no reason to add fan speculation that has been blown out of proportion to the article. MelicansMatkin (talk) 05:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Umm... I don't get it... It's not all right for me to post something like this because of supposed non-verifiable facts... and yet YOU GUYS are allowed to make articles on products or stories that never happened yet ALL Based on what an Author/Writer/Director said even though some of these things have a chance of not being true in the final product?! I mean, no offense, but that seems a bit hypocritical to me. I mean, If it's not all right for me to list something her VA hinted at (even IF it was a mere hint, Misty's VA from the original version said it, so it's still official), we shouldn't be making articles on entertainment that hasn't happened yet all based on what the writer/author/director said at all, either.

Besides, Matkin, It's not like this site is quite innocent, either. I mean, Schools literally blacklisted this site due to it being "edited by anyone", And, hey, you are part of bulbagarden forums, right? well, from your trekking through it, I'm sure you've noticed that when people mention something from Bulbapedia/bulbanews (which, BTW, requires members to edit it instead of anyone), they treat it with less caution, but when someone mentions their source is from wikipedia, they say not to trust it since "it can be edited by anyone".

and also, Common Sense, Matkin, if a reporter wrote an article that turned out to have false info, regardless of whether it was intentional or otherwise, He would be Fired (Like what happened with Dan Rather with the Killian Documents Controversy). And since Zhen Lin was the guy who WROTE that article, and thus, technically the guy who started the whole fiasco, he should have been FIRED from Bulbanews. But, you know, He's still working at the site (believe me, It would be obvious if he wasn't working on the site, since his bio would have been deleted and red-listed).

Also, The article may have been over a year old, but when Ganon was announced to be in "Twilight Princess", it took TWO AND A HALF YEARS to find out that Eiji Aonuma was actually telling the truth in regards to this. You Guys kept that little tidbit from that interview with him in DESPITE it being a source of Zelda Fandom Controversy, which in itself would have warranted a deletion, regardless of whether he confirmed it or not. It's no different to what Mayumi Iizuka said and how the fanbase was/still is reacting. speaking of which, if it took two and a half years for us to find out that he was telling the truth, I think she could do it at whatever time was necessary as long as it was within the Pokemon Diamond and pearl Anime.

And anyways, if Bulbanews is blacklisted, explain why you have Bulbapedia as a link in some pokedex entries? I mean, even Serebii.net's pokedex has a link on the site, should we eliminate them too? And anyways, Many movies and gaming review sections have several Blacklisted sources cited (Like IMDb, Rotten tomatoes, IGN, etc. etc.), should WE eliminate those as well?

Sorry for this rant, But I just can't tolerate the reasons you used for this, because they, in themselves have holes. And anyways, my previous post was NOT Directed to you, it was directed towards Eternalsunlight.

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.245 (talk) 12:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

P.S. One Last thing, She couldn't have been referring to the 10th anniversary special since, by the time this blog was made, the Japanese version of The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon had already aired almost 6 months prior. Plus, it is implied that it never reaired since then, that it only aired on that date, and even if it was going to reair, it would have been pointless for her to mention she was doing it since, unless they were going to do a "Redo", they would use the same version that first aired. Plus, she already confirmed in that same blog that she was doing the trivia segments BEFORE making the hint at Misty's supposed return, anyways.

~~Weedle McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.245 (talk) 13:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• and yet YOU GUYS are allowed to make articles on products or stories that never happened yet ALL Based on what an Author/Writer/Director said even though some of these things have a chance of not being true in the final product?! -Show examples of these articles please. In any case, there is a difference. A voice actor is not involved in-depth with the actual creation and production of the show, whereas an author/director is. If an author or director were to say something, it makes it more reliable. A voice actor's blog isn't exactly the greatest source, especially if it's been mistranslated by people who don't have the best Japanese linguistic skills, or use an online translator.
• I mean, If it's not all right for me to list something her VA hinted at (even IF it was a mere hint, it's still official) - WP:OR, WP:RS. A hint is a hint, and a hint is pure speculation. Speculation has no place on Wikipedia.
• Besides, Matkin, It's not like this site is quite innocent, either. I mean, Schools literally blacklisted this site due to it being "edited by anyone", - I am of the opinion that Wikipedia is the most reliable research tool there is. It is consistently updated, and if one checks the edit history to see what the last edits were, it is easy to avoid reading vandalism as fact.
• And, hey, you are part of bulbagarden forums, right? - Yes, I am. And I don't see what that has to do with anything. People are welcome to take the credibility of any website with a grain of salt. Yes, anyone can edit Wikipedia. But many people register on Wikipedia before they vandalize. Those registered people are now members; just like on Bulbapedia/Bulbanews. It's not exactly a difficult thing to do.
• and also, Common Sense, Matkin, if a reporter wrote an article that turned out to have false info, regardless of whether it was intentional or otherwise, He would be Fired - I never the article that you are referring to. Besides, what does Zhen Lin's article have to do with anything that happens on Wikipedia? Kindly stick to the topic at hand, if you please.
• Also, The article may have been over a year old, but when Ganon was announced to be in "Twilight Princess", it took TWO AND A HALF YEARS to find out that Eiji Aonuma was actually telling the truth in regards to this. - Two and a half years is a long time. Just because something is said/has been said in an article does not mean it has a bearing in this one. I agree that Misty will appear at some point; every main or former main character has been represented at some point in every saga after their introduction. But a hint is not an ironclad, indisputible fact. A hint is not grounds to warrant mention in the article. There is no reason whatsoever for a "hint" to be added.
• And anyways, if Bulbanews is blacklisted, explain why you have Bulbapedia as a link in some pokedex entries? - Get an account and start reading up on Wikipedia policies. WP:RS and WP:NOT would be good places to start. A forum or fansite is not considered to be a reliable source. Bulbapedia and Serebii are fansites, and thus they are not considered to be reliable sources. We are actually in the process of removing ALL links to Bulba, Serebii, and any other Pokemon fansite/forum. Because every piece of information is reviewed and researched for truth, IMDb is considered to be a reliable source. Read about why in the Wikipedia policies.
• I just can't tolerate the reasons you used for this, because they, in themselves have holes - Read the policies I have provided that back up my reasons. Your comment may not have been directed towards me, but a beauty about Wikipedia is that anybody can answer any questions. MelicansMatkin (talk) 15:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks WM Whether the sources are reliable or not she just hinted Misty would return that not a fact. Realized you doing mostly because you want people to know Misty coming back not that you think the rules are wrong and I even stop editing in pokeshipping because it was only hinted, I'm Melody93. EternalSunlight (talk) 15:11, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• -Show examples of these articles please. In any case, there is a difference. A voice actor is not involved in-depth with the actual creation and production of the show, whereas an author/director is. If an author or director were to say something, it makes it more reliable. A voice actor's blog isn't exactly the greatest source, especially if it's been mistranslated by people who don't have the best Japanese linguistic skills, or use an online translator. Ok, I will, The 3rd and 4th Eragon Book, since it wasn't released. Also, I feel that a VA is just AS reliable as the creators of said series, especially if their Bosses told them beforehand. And another thing, I doubt it was Mistranslated, Since Zhen Lin lives somewhere near Malaysia, considering his use of the Malaysia time zone.

• - Yes, I am. And I don't see what that has to do with anything. People are welcome to take the credibility of any website with a grain of salt. Yes, anyone can edit Wikipedia. But many people register on Wikipedia before they vandalize. Those registered people are now members; just like on Bulbapedia/Bulbanews. It's not exactly a difficult thing to do.

Yes, except UNLIKE wikipedia, where even a non-member can edit it, if you aren't logged in to bulbapedia and you try to edit something, You are directly taken to the Login/registration page, MEANING that you can't make edits on Bulbapedia unless you register first. And the reason why I brought it up is because people on pokemon Boards think that Bulbapedia is FAR more reliable than Wikipedia.

• - I never the article that you are referring to. Besides, what does Zhen Lin's article have to do with anything that happens on Wikipedia? Kindly stick to the topic at hand, if you please.

I was referring to what would have happened if Kasumi really Wasn't Making an appearance/return to the anime and the Article had false information. And, FYI, what do you mean I never the article that you were referring to? If you were referring to the Kasumi reappearing article, I am meaning [Article]. or, for a more, direct viewing, here's the article in print:

According to ☆飯塚雅弓のまーちゃん日和☆, the blog of voice actress Mayumi Iizuka, Kasumi will be "navigating," that is to say, hosting, parts of the first Pokémon anime 10th anniversary special, which airs on TV Tokyo tonight at 7 p.m. JST. She hints at a further appearance sometime in the future.

but if you were meaning the Killian Documents controversy, A few years back, Dan Rather and his production team made a news report in regards to President Bush's Track record from his times in the Military supposedly made by his C.O., Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian. They were doing quite well except for one thing, He as well as his production team failed to verify their sources (a big mistake for a news Journalist that would cost them their Job). Later the entire Killian Documents thing was revealed to be a Hoax, and Dan Rather was forced to retire from his position on CBS, and the other reporters involved with it were fired. For more on this see here or Here. I brought up the Killian Documents controversy because, If Mayumi Iizuka was actually meaning that she was just doing the 10th anniversary special and NOT a return to the main cast/appearance in the anime as the article implied, Zhen Lin would have suffered the same fate as Dan Rather and many other News Reporters did.

• - Two and a half years is a long time. Just because something is said/has been said in an article does not mean it has a bearing in this one. I agree that Misty will appear at some point; every main or former main character has been represented at some point in every saga after their introduction. But a hint is not an ironclad, indisputible fact. A hint is not grounds to warrant mention in the article. There is no reason whatsoever for a "hint" to be added.

well, yeah, but it still should at least be worth noting, In the most Neutral way possible. Besides, that doesn't change the fact that Eiji Aonuma's interview caused huge controversy among the Zelda fandom, half saying that Ganondorf is appearing in Twilight Princess, while the other half was saying that Aonuma was most likely lying like last time, since the Zelda creators seem to have a reputation of saying untrue stuff about upcoming games.

• - Get an account and start reading up on Wikipedia policies. WP:RS and WP:NOT would be good places to start. A forum or fansite is not considered to be a reliable source. Bulbapedia and Serebii are fansites, and thus they are not considered to be reliable sources. We are actually in the process of removing ALL links to Bulba, Serebii, and any other Pokemon fansite/forum. Because every piece of information is reviewed and researched for truth, IMDb is considered to be a reliable source. Read about why in the Wikipedia policies.

Umm... Bulbapedia is a wiki, not a fansite. I do agree with you on Serebii.net. And anyways, About IMDb, I thought it wasn't supposed to be a reliable source considering how some people on this site said it wasn't (for example, a member said on the [Now Deleted] The Little Mermaid III Article's talk page asked Can somebody please give me a reliable source in regards to this? Just for the record, A Friend that you know telling you, A Message board posting, and IMDb Do NOT count as reliable sources. which made it seem like IMDb is Not a Reliable source, period. Hence my utter surprise when it is used a lot in regards to movie reviews on several movie articles, and the other review sites, I automatically thought, If IMDb doesn't count as a reliable source, then they don't either.).

Also, ES, aka Melody93, Yes, I somewhat agree (though I feel that if it was hinted by an official of something, then it is official and confirmation enough for me.), also, I am doing this because I felt it should be worth mentioning, esp. since there are Misty fans out there who need hope. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.245 (talk) 16:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copy Editing?

The copy edit template were it was listing Misty's pokemon is unnecessary. I just went through it and didn't find anything that needed to be fixed (I did make one or two thing better sentences). If nobody says no soon, I'm getting rid of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mm40 (talk • contribs) 23:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)